The Other Side of Midnight - Richard C. Hoagland - Live Chat Thread

[chefist]

Just to get things back to Hoagie, he's a link back to the people who got us to the moon, even if all he was doing was running the old cruise-ship scam for them.  Yeah he name-drops but the stuff expat has posted recently just confirms he was rubbing shoulders with some pretty big names, way more than I thought, just knowing him from Art's old show as a kind of nut.

Pohl calls him a "communications genius" and that's a good description; he's got that evangelizing zeal that scientists and other nerds just can't manage.  For all his criticism of NASA, they could use more boosters like him.  We might wish he was a little more grounded in reality, but I think we're lucky to get him as is.

He is entertaining! If you put a hard scientist on the radio talking about technical topics you will have a complete flop. RCH is doing great and I can't wait to hear him OTA someday soon! That will be a blast to hear the radio audience’s reaction! 

[Northern Nights]

I think you're right, our old institutions are groaning and straining to keep up with the advance of technology and are woefully unprepared for the future. Over the next 40 years, for example, the vast majority of jobs will fall to automation. Economically, our system has absolutely no way of dealing with what happens when the entire human race goes unemployed, yet the system will drive that very automation because it saves money for the corporations. Eventually, the corporations have no market because it went unemployed and the only way to keep things going is nationalization of the means of production. It seems apparent that the end result of capitalism in a technologically advancing society is utopian socialism. Imagine how blind-sided the political order will be going through that transition.

The rise of technology and the resulting information age in the post industrial era and it's effects on society was predicted with eerie accuracy in a book called The Third Wave by Alvin Toffler, which was written over 40 years ago.  It essentially predicted today's world, where the real challenge is keeping people employed and providing the right training for the jobs on the cutting edge of technology.  It didn't necessarily predict mass unemployment, only that many jobs would in effect be unimportant in the greater scheme of things.  That's true today when you think about it, most office jobs today don't exactly require full effort, people still have time to read the news on the internet, fill out their football pool, post on Bellgab, etc.

[gabrielle]

The rise of technology and the resulting information age in the post industrial era and it's effects on society was predicted with eerie accuracy in a book called The Third Wave by Alvin Toffler, which was written over 40 years ago.  It essentially predicted today's world, where the real challenge is keeping people employed and providing the right training for the jobs on the cutting edge of technology.  It didn't necessarily predict mass unemployment, only that many jobs would in effect be unimportant in the greater scheme of things.  That's true today when you think about it, most office jobs today don't exactly require full effort, people still have time to read the news on the internet, fill out their football pool, post on Bellgab, etc.

I remember Toffler's book well.  We are indeed on the precipice.  Thank goodness for Art and Hoagie for talking us through it.

[albrecht]

I remember Toffler's book well.  We are indeed on the precipice.  Thank goodness for Art and Hoagie for talking us through it.

It is always interesting to read through (or even just magazine articles or the chapters and last parts) of old books written by futurists decades ago etc. Future Shock, Megatrends, Third Wave, The Year 2000, etc used to be found for free basically at book stores, your lake house, someone's attic, etc since the paperbacks were so popular. Some predictions are good, others not so much. Herman Kahn, is surprising accurate in many things though off by a few years.
I will leave you with this awesome interview with Heinz von Foerster (Cybernetics): so aggressive and passionate at 90!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KnPBg-tanE

[expat]

After a bit of research -- and, admittedly, a bit of guesswork -- I conclude that the astronaut and the scientist cited by Fred Pohl as co-organizers of the "Ship of Foolishness" were, respectively, Brian O'Leary and Robert Enzmann of 'Enzmann Starship' fame.

[K_Dubb]

After a bit of research -- and, admittedly, a bit of guesswork -- I conclude that the astronaut and the scientist cited by Fred Pohl as co-organizers of the "Ship of Foolishness" were, respectively, Brian O'Leary and Robert Enzmann of 'Enzmann Starship' fame.

Cool thanks, listening to last night's show Hoagie talks like he was aboard for the launch but Pohl seems to remember otherwise.  I wish I could have seen that!

Also Rossy I notice the archive gives a last name for Amy while it is apparent from the show she'd like to conceal it.

[SciFiAuthor]

The rise of technology and the resulting information age in the post industrial era and it's effects on society was predicted with eerie accuracy in a book called The Third Wave by Alvin Toffler, which was written over 40 years ago.  It essentially predicted today's world, where the real challenge is keeping people employed and providing the right training for the jobs on the cutting edge of technology.  It didn't necessarily predict mass unemployment, only that many jobs would in effect be unimportant in the greater scheme of things.  That's true today when you think about it, most office jobs today don't exactly require full effort, people still have time to read the news on the internet, fill out their football pool, post on Bellgab, etc.

Yes, Toffler was prophetic. The complete unemployment scenario oddly comes from John Maynard Keynes originally. He wrote a paper in 1930 entitled "Economic Possibilities for our Grand Children" and basically predicted that within a century of writing man would literally automate everything and go unemployed. He appears to have been right. Quite a few people in business are already calling for 3 or 4 day work weeks.

Economics is only one aspect of the big shift though. We're at the edge of the biotechnology revolution as well. It's looking increasingly likely that over the next four decades we will dramatically extend human lifespans until eventually some form of immortality becomes a reality. One has to ask how do the religions adjust to a world where people don't die? Or another aspect would be genetic and physical manipulation, just what does race mean when you can change your color? What happens when prosthetic limbs become better than biological ones?

All of these questions are coming faster than anyone realizes and our social and political order is not prepared for it.

Hoagland however will survive it. All hail emperor Cyberhoag!

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Yes!...thank you.  I feel like I'm on an island sometimes.

I knew my lot in life couldn't be my fault.

[ShayP]

I knew my lot in life couldn't be my fault.

Ha! 


...hey  ...what?

[SaucyRossy]

Also Rossy I notice the archive gives a last name for Amy while it is apparent from the show she'd like to conceal it.

No. Rch was kidding around.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Ha! 


...hey  ...what?

I guess I was responding more to SciFi's post than yours.  You just happened to quote it.

[K_Dubb]

No. Rch was kidding around.

Haha I like to think I'm pretty quick but Hoagie got the jump on me!

[ShayP]

I guess I was responding more to SciFi's post than yours.  You just happened to quote it.

It's not your (our) fault.   

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

It's not your (our) fault.   

[zeebo]

[Étouffée]

Do dinosaurs dream of antikytheran sheep?

[=Schlyder=]

The rise of technology and the resulting information age in the post industrial era and it's effects on society was predicted with eerie accuracy in a book called The Third Wave by Alvin Toffler, which was written over 40 years ago.  It essentially predicted today's world, where the real challenge is keeping people employed and providing the right training for the jobs on the cutting edge of technology.  It didn't necessarily predict mass unemployment, only that many jobs would in effect be unimportant in the greater scheme of things.  That's true today when you think about it, most office jobs today don't exactly require full effort, people still have time to read the news on the internet, fill out their football pool, post on Bellgab, etc.

I remember reading this book and his other one, "Future Shock" 35 yrs ago. 

We are seeing a lot of what he predicted.

[zeebo]

Do dinosaurs dream of antikytheran sheep?

And bingo, another show topic!  Run with it Rossy.

[SaucyRossy]

OPEN LINES You can call in by phone: (505) 796-8802
or Skype: enterprisemission

[coaster]

Open lines tonight? So two or three calls I figure.

[trostol]

how much braaping politics will he talk about

[SciFiAuthor]

Braaps!

[Sandra Kristen]

Open lines tonight? So two or three calls then I figure.

Richard's opening monologue will probably be at least 30 minutes. Blah blah blah Trump. Blah blah blah debate.

[Anthony Barnett]

BRAAPS < Cue the ringing telephone Ross.

[norland2424]

braaps ya bastards 

[Mild Bill]

BRAAPS!!..Hoagienauts!

[SaucyRossy]

how much braaping politics will he talk about

Call in and make the subject about what you WANT also email him your thoughts about politics if you dont like it
rch@othersideofmidnight.com

[pate]

Ima hawt for Linda...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qqvdOwoN-Y

[trostol]

Call in and make the subject about what you WANT also email him your thoughts about politics if you dont like it
rch@othersideofmidnight.com

i sent ya another guest suggestion lol

[Mild Bill]

May the political commentary be brief!