President Donald J. Trump

[mikuthing01]

I actually think the protesters will bring more support for Trump in the long run. He's getting all the press coverage.

I agree, Trump took cook county but lost to Ted Cruz in my rural conservative county. I think the Chicago protest helped him win Chicago i couldn't believe my eyes when i seen the election results. I think a lot of conservatives will turn out to vote Trump even if they don't really like his brash personality. SJW's assured his victory in Arizona today when they blocked off a highway. Trump supporters just left their cars and walked 3 miles to the rally.

[RealCool Daddio]

What amazes me is how many people think free trade is a "conservative" principle. I guess it's been repeated by Mark Levin enough times that they buy into it, but it has always been a left wing liberal position and still is. It's one of the few areas where both parties agree. You'd think people would notice that and wonder why . . .

That's why I wonder so much about Ted Cruz. If he's such a constitutionalist, then why isn't he advocating that the Federal Government be funded through tariffs?

Pinko lefties like this dude, right?

https://youtu.be/zzs3Z1o66Yk

[21st Century Man]

What amazes me is how many people think free trade is a "conservative" principle. I guess it's been repeated by Mark Levin enough times that they buy into it, but it has always been a left wing liberal position and still is. It's one of the few areas where both parties agree. You'd think people would notice that and wonder why . . .

That's why I wonder so much about Ted Cruz. If he's such a constitutionalist, then why isn't he advocating that the Federal Government be funded through tariffs?

You do know that acts like the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act led to the Stock Market Crash of 1929?  I used to be gung-ho about tariffs until I read about how disastrous they have been to our country.  The best way to bring jobs back to America is by a lowering of the corporate tax rate..

[SciFiAuthor]

Pinko lefties like this dude, right?

https://youtu.be/zzs3Z1o66Yk

Yes, he was very liberal regarding trade policy.

[VtaGeezer]

From the NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/business/economy/carrier-workers-see-costs-not-benefits-of-global-trade.html?_r=0

The U.S. blue collars have been enduring so-called "Free Trade" for decades now.  There is nothing fair about "Free Trade" when the players are competing on unequal grounds.  Sure, ship jobs to China, Mexico, where you can exploit near-slave labor, with few if any environmental, occupational, health, or safety regulations and not have to worry about compensating tariffs for goods coming back into the U.S.  Why not just exploit U.S. prisons?  Or would that violate their rights.

What a screwed-up situation and you have the D.C. mafia and corporate lobbyists to thank.  I don't blame the blue collar labor force for rebelling.  Now if only they don't screw themselves over with the self-serving union mafias once again.  :

It's worse than it appears.  Much worse.  Without immediate action, in 25 years the US std of living will be closer to Mexico's than Canada's; if we make it that far.  Silly bastard millenials are clueless; content to toss pizzas at Dominos for life as long as they can post selfies from a fucking iPhone made by slave labor at Foxconn. 

[SciFiAuthor]

You do know that acts like the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act led to the Stock Market Crash of 1929?  I used to be gung-ho about tariffs until I read about how disastrous they have been to our country.  The best way to bring jobs back to America is by a lowering of the corporate tax rate..

Smoot-Hawley was enacted in 1930, thus didn't cause the stock market crash of 1929. What it is blamed for is the depression, but that's a gross oversimplification invented later by free trader Democrats. The initial effect of Smoot-Hawley was a sharp increase in payrolls, domestic factory output and construction contracts. When the weak banks in Europe began failing due to the crash, Smoot-Hawley contributed to a contraction in global trade which in turn contracted our own exports. However, as Milton Friedman pointed out, exports accounted for only 5 percent of the economy in 1930 and the real cause of the depression lies within the money supply policies of the time.

2016 is very different from 1930. We now face the problem of Keynes' technological unemployment where factories in China are automating at such a rate that the cost of production will continue to drop as robots replace factory workers. We will reach a period where no human anywhere can be employed as a factory assembly line worker. This will, in turn, force factories in the US flee the country and immediately automate, likely plunging countries like China into the unprecedented position of high GDP growth numbers but with increasingly high unemployment numbers. As unemployment grows worse globally, the markets will contract due to lack of economic activity slowing and eventually reversing growth. Tariffing is the only tool we have that can draw that process out and moderate it short of regulations regarding automation.

[chefist]

Already protestors! I love it! It's like the WWE!

https://youtu.be/ipUjysWyUTA

[21st Century Man]

Smoot-Hawley was enacted in 1930, thus didn't cause the stock market crash of 1929. What it is blamed for is the depression, but that's a gross oversimplification invented later by free trader Democrats. The initial effect of Smoot-Hawley was a sharp increase in payrolls, domestic factory output and construction contracts. When the weak banks in Europe began failing due to the crash, Smoot-Hawley contributed to a contraction in global trade which in turn contracted our own exports. However, as Milton Friedman pointed out, exports accounted for only 5 percent of the economy in 1930 and the real cause of the depression lies within the money supply policies of the time.

2016 is very different from 1930. We now face the problem of Keynes' technological unemployment where factories in China are automating at such a rate that the cost of production will continue to drop as robots replace factory workers. We will reach a period where no human anywhere can be employed as a factory assembly line worker. This will, in turn, force factories in the US flee the country and immediately automate, likely plunging countries like China into the unprecedented position of high GDP growth numbers but with increasingly high unemployment numbers. As unemployment grows worse globally, the markets will contract due to lack of economic activity slowing and eventually reversing growth. Tariffing is the only tool we have that can draw that process out and moderate it short of regulations regarding automation.

Smoot-Hawley was passed in the House on May 28, 1929.  In October, Wall Street got wind that the bill was going to pass the Senate and be signed soon.  Wall Street panicked over the prospect thus causing the crash.

[Lt.Uhura]

What amazes me is how many people think free trade is a "conservative" principle....

Because when you connect the dots the truth leads to ultra wealthy corporate robber barons who've historically voted for -- and generously donated to -- the Republican Party.

Take Walmart for example.  The nation's largest retailer and biggest importer. 

http://prospect.org/article/how-walmart-and-home-depot-are-buying-huge-political-influence

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/walmart-political-contributions_n_3461267.html?m=false

http://fortune.com/2015/10/20/walmart-made-in-the-usa/

[SciFiAuthor]

Smoot-Hawley was passed in the House on May 28, 1929.  In October, Wall Street got wind that the bill was going to pass the Senate and be signed soon.  Wall Street panicked over the prospect thus causing the crash.

Precipitating it maybe, but causing it, no. What caused it was a gigantic bubble.

[SciFiAuthor]

Because when you connect the dots the truth leads to ultra wealthy corporate robber barons who've historically voted for -- and generously donated to -- the Republican Party.

Take Walmart for example.  The nation's largest retailer and biggest importer. 

http://prospect.org/article/how-walmart-and-home-depot-are-buying-huge-political-influence

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/walmart-political-contributions_n_3461267.html?m=false

http://fortune.com/2015/10/20/walmart-made-in-the-usa/

Yeah, that's correct.

[=Schlyder=]

Because when you connect the dots the truth leads to ultra wealthy corporate robber barons who've historically voted for -- and generously donated to -- the Republican Party.

Take Walmart for example.  The nation's largest retailer and biggest importer. 

http://prospect.org/article/how-walmart-and-home-depot-are-buying-huge-political-influence

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/walmart-political-contributions_n_3461267.html?m=false

http://fortune.com/2015/10/20/walmart-made-in-the-usa/

That's pretty funny as Hillary was on the board of Directors for Walmart. LOL

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/17/hillary-clintons-wal-mart-ties-breed-mistrust-amon/?page=all

[21st Century Man]

Precipitating it maybe, but causing it, no. What caused it was a gigantic bubble.

Yeah, I was oversimplifying it and agree there were several factors but my point in general was that Smoot-Hawley was not a good thing and I think similar tariffs would not be a good thing in today's climate.  The corporate tax rate is over 39%.  Think if we dropped it to 15% or even 10%.  The economy would be in a boom.  Jobs, jobs everywhere.

[VtaGeezer]

Smoot-Hawley was passed in the House on May 28, 1929.  In October, Wall Street got wind that the bill was going to pass the Senate and be signed soon.  Wall Street panicked over the prospect thus causing the crash.

Nonsense.  The Oct '29 Crash was the result of an stock market bubble floating on a sea of margin positions that millions of unsophisticated  stock buyers had been suckered into.  Much like the subprime mortgage CDOs in 2008; the ledger entries looked impressive but weren't worth the ink used to write them.  Smoot-Hawley has been the free traders boogie man for 50 years, while they selectively ignore the utter collapse of the industrial US economy and the middle class since they got their hands into the economy's pants with Reagan, who learned economics from the back of a cereal box.

And don't believe the corporate sob sisters bemoaning the ,monstrous US corporate tax rate.  Ask them what the rate paid after deductions and credits is; the average is under 15%.

[SciFiAuthor]

Yeah, I was oversimplifying it and agree there were several factors but my point in general was that Smoot-Hawley was not a good thing and I think similar tariffs would not be a good thing in today's climate.  The corporate tax rate is over 39%.  Think if we dropped it to 15% or even 10%.  The economy would be in a boom.

I'd be for dropping it to 15%, it would certainly help. But it's only going to be a short term fix. As automation becomes more of a problem, corporate taxes will become the only viable source of income for governments. Our real unemployment rate right now is about 25%, in 20 years it will be something along the lines of 50-75% with most people living off of government subsidy paid for by corporate taxes.

http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2015/11/06/technological-unemployment-and-the-future-of-work/

[Lt.Uhura]

Yeah, that's correct.

As a single mom on a budget, I used to shop there.  Saving money was my objective.  But I just couldn't reconcile saving a few bucks with Walmart's business model.  Some have tried to show how Walmart and other 'big box' business have benefitted local economies with more jobs, but I don't think it adds up in the long run.  I try to buy locally whenever I can, and also love to recycle old (and often better made) items by shopping at thrift stores. 

Haha, Walmart won't tell you where the hats are made, but instead gives a disclaimer about the country of origin.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Donald-Trump-2016-Make-America-Great-Again-White-Hat/48591369

[VtaGeezer]

I'd be for dropping it to 15%, it would certainly help. But it's only going to be a short term fix. As automation becomes more of a problem, corporate taxes will become the only viable source of income for governments. Our real unemployment rate right now is about 25%, in 20 years it will be something along the lines of 50-75% with most people living off of government subsidy paid for by corporate taxes.

http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2015/11/06/technological-unemployment-and-the-future-of-work/

If you "drop" it to a flat 15%, it would be tax increase for most corporations.  The average corporate tax paid is like 12.5% (per GAO).  The Chamber of Commerce been pushing that woe-is-us bullshit for 20 years and thanks to drones like Limbaugh, many now believe it.

[nooryisawesome]

If you "drop" it to a flat 15%, it would be tax increase for most corporations.  The average corporate tax paid is like 12.5% (per GAO).  The Chamber of Commerce been pushing that woe-is-us bullshit for 20 years and thanks to drones like Limbaugh, many now believe it.

I'm calling bullshit.


Washington, DC (Feb 4, 2015)â€"How much do corporations actually pay in taxes? With the ongoing debate on corporate taxation, inversions, and international competitiveness, this question remains at the core of the tax reform debate in the United States. It’s true that the U.S. has the highest statutory corporate tax rate in the industrialized world, but some argue that corporations don’t pay anything close to the listed rate in the tax code. In reality, however, U.S. corporations face a high tax on additional investment with the second highest marginal effective tax rate in the OECD at 35.3 percent, according to a new study from the nonpartisan Tax FoundatIon.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/how-much-do-corporations-pay-taxes

[21st Century Man]

Nonsense.  The Oct '29 Crash was the result of an stock market bubble floating on a sea of margin positions that millions of unsophisticated  stock buyers had been suckered into.  Much like the subprime mortgage CDOs in 2008; the ledger entries looked impressive but weren't worth the ink used to write them.  Smoot-Hawley has been the free traders boogie man for 50 years...

And don't believe the corporate sob sisters bemoaning the ,monstrous US corporate tax rate.  Ask them what the rate paid after deductions and credits is; the average is under 15%.

Maybe I was overstating the impact of Smoot-Hawley but I think you are also underestimating the impact.  As for the corporate tax rate, our system does not make it easy to take advantage of those deductions and credits.  Ireland has a 12.5% corporate tax rate and look at the manufacturing plants that are moving over there.  Simplify the tax code and at least stay on an equal footing with countries like Ireland.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

You do know that acts like the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act led to the Stock Market Crash of 1929?  I used to be gung-ho about tariffs until I read about how disastrous they have been to our country.  The best way to bring jobs back to America is by a lowering of the corporate tax rate..

I doubt that you could do that. There is a large and profitable business for offshore tax middlemen and they would all be losing big $$$.
The corporate tax is so high because the middlemen want it that way.

[VtaGeezer]

As a single mom on a budget, I used to shop there.  Saving money was my objective.  But I just couldn't reconcile saving a few bucks with Walmart's business model.  Some have tried to show how Walmart and other 'big box' business have benefitted local economies with more jobs, but I don't think it adds up in the long run.  I try to buy locally whenever I can, and also love to recycle old (and often better made) items by shopping at thrift stores. 

Haha, Walmart won't tell you where the hats are made, but instead gives a disclaimer about the country of origin.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Donald-Trump-2016-Make-America-Great-Again-White-Hat/48591369

I used to visit a lot of small steel and machinery fabricators in the western and midwest states.  It was tragic to see many vacant Main Streets a year or two after a Walmart opened just past the city limit.  I also recall how Sam Walton preached "made in the USA" while hiding made-in-china labels on his inventory of crap products.  Retail in the US has become the domain of corporations.  Every town is reduced to a identical Home Depot Walmart Staples PetSmart Subway Michaels Kohls Red Lobster Applebees strip mall.  Have you tried to buy quality lately?  Its unavailable in a lot of America (unless you shop online and thats another issue)

[SciFiAuthor]

If you "drop" it to a flat 15%, it would be tax increase for most corporations.  The average corporate tax paid is like 12.5% (per GAO).  The Chamber of Commerce been pushing that woe-is-us bullshit for 20 years and thanks to drones like Limbaugh, many now believe it.

Loopholes are a separate issue, there are a lot of corporations that pay zero. The loopholes do need to be addressed.

[21st Century Man]

I'd be for dropping it to 15%, it would certainly help. But it's only going to be a short term fix. As automation becomes more of a problem, corporate taxes will become the only viable source of income for governments. Our real unemployment rate right now is about 25%, in 20 years it will be something along the lines of 50-75% with most people living off of government subsidy paid for by corporate taxes.

http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2015/11/06/technological-unemployment-and-the-future-of-work/

That's a depressing forecast.  I hope you are wrong.

[21st Century Man]

I used to visit a lot of small steel and machinery fabricators in the western and midwest states.  It was tragic to see many vacant Main Streets a year or two after a Walmart opened just past the city limit.  I also recall how Sam Walton preached "made in the USA" while hiding made-in-china labels on his inventory of crap products.  Retail in the US has become the domain of corporations.  Every town is reduced to a identical Home Depot Walmart Staples PetSmart Subway Michaels Kohls Red Lobster Applebees strip mall.  Have you tried to buy quality lately?  Its unavailable in a lot of America (unless you shop online and thats another issue)

I couldn't agree with you more on this point.

[VtaGeezer]

Loopholes are a separate issue, there are a lot of corporations that pay zero. The loopholes do need to be addressed.

Not loop holes, just the tax code.  Just as average taxpayers never the full rate on their gross income, neither do corporations.  I can tell you stories about corporate "expenses" and deductions that would make flames come out your ears...but they never bitch about that.

[SciFiAuthor]

As a single mom on a budget, I used to shop there.  Saving money was my objective.  But I just couldn't reconcile saving a few bucks with Walmart's business model.  Some have tried to show how Walmart and other 'big box' business have benefitted local economies with more jobs, but I don't think it adds up in the long run.  I try to buy locally whenever I can, and also love to recycle old (and often better made) items by shopping at thrift stores. 

Haha, Walmart won't tell you where the hats are made, but instead gives a disclaimer about the country of origin.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Donald-Trump-2016-Make-America-Great-Again-White-Hat/48591369

Buying local makes sense whether you're on the left or the right. I buy my meats from the local butcher who buys from the local farmers. I have to buy a lot and keep it in a deep freeze, but the quality is far better than anything in the stores. Vegetables we mostly grow ourselves as this area is gardening central. I also like the little thrift stores. More often than not they are small businesses, which I like to support. Anything else I usually buy from the grocery stores or other chains instead of Walmart.

[21st Century Man]

Loopholes are a separate issue, there are a lot of corporations that pay zero. The loopholes do need to be addressed.

Exactly.  Make it a truly level playing field.

[SciFiAuthor]

That's a depressing forecast.  I hope you are wrong.

That's why I'm always banging on about ideologies going obsolete. Whether you're a liberal or a conservative, neither side is prepared for the transition to an automated economy. As it stands, the end result of capitalism is a communist utopia. A giant welfare state that subsidizes everyone because the corporations automated everyone into unemployment. Every job on earth from a janitor to a lawyer is vulnerable because computers can do that same job more efficiently, more accurately, and far cheaper than a human. The jobs will dry up one by one as artificial intelligence technology marches on.

[VtaGeezer]

Ireland has a 12.5% corporate tax rate and look at the manufacturing plants that are moving over there.  Simplify the tax code and at least stay on an equal footing with countries like Ireland.

Ireland, like many US states uses taxes as a weapon to harvest companies from other countries and jurisdictions. I don't believe they can get away with it within the EU. We can't do much about foreign countries, but I believe that every dollar of tax credit given by a state like TX to attract companies from other states should be subtracted from their federal funding.  Its stupid for CA or NY taxpayers to essentially subsidize states with their tax monies when those states use the funds to raid their economies. 

[albrecht]

Loopholes are a separate issue, there are a lot of corporations that pay zero. The loopholes do need to be addressed.

Or at least let individuals and small and mid-size businesses participate in tax schemes like a Double-Irish Dutch Sandwich. As I've mentioned before it sounds like something you need to pay the girls extra for in De Wallen, but really it is a tax-dodge, one of many, that huge corporations use (often the same ones who support more HB-1 Visas, open borders, and amnesty with their personal donations and corporate policy.)

ps: the amazing thing is the lack of decorum, or common-sense, of Obama's illegals, BLM, Clinton ("Bernie") supporters, etc in their anti-Trump, anti-school, anti-police, anti-border, or anti-white protests. Today they tried to shut down a highway to block a Trump speech. Because free speech, or freedom of movement (Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546) matters. Nothing new, of course, but it is amazing. Obama will send out many agents, snipers, etc when some redneck "occupies" some worthless desert land but, if leftist inspired, they are allowed (even encouraged) to shut down and disrupt major things: roads and highways (today's are anti-Trump but in the past often Obama's illegals or BLM protesting other things,) burn and loot businesses, attack police, shut down airports (MSP,) cause near riots at universities or disrupt and walkout of classes, and so on, without any retribution and/or limited prosecutions?