Trump

[WildCard]

Every pundit and candidate calling Trump's plan is crazy. CNN running banner " Trump plan is not feasible." And so on. BS, if we can go to the moon we can enforce our border, which almost every other country around the world does. The only reason I like Trump because he is forcing the media, their corporate backers, and both Parties to show their cards. When Bush says, as he just did,  "Trump's plan costs too much" Trump should immediately tweet back "Cheaper than your father and brother's wars. But yould you support it if we gave the contract to round-up the illegals to Halliburton and store them in Correction Corporation of America facilities?"

My landlord regurgitates the Fox & Friends talking points every time I see her. She loves Trump and beats that anti-immigrant drum as loud as anybody.

But, all of her employees are illegals. So, if she got what she claims she wants, I don't know who she'd get to work that hard, under those conditions, for that little pay.

[aldousburbank]

My landlord regurgitates the Fox & Friends talking points every time I see her. She loves Trump and beats that anti-immigrant drum as loud as anybody.

But, all of her employees are illegals. So, if she got what she claims she wants, I don't know who she'd get to work that hard, under those conditions, for that little pay.

I think you've arrived at the center of the immigration "problem." It is a business rights issue masqerading as a human rights issue.   

[onan]

I think you've arrived at the center of the immigration "problem." It is a business rights issue masqerading as a human rights issue.

It can't be both?

[albrecht]

My landlord regurgitates the Fox & Friends talking points every time I see her. She loves Trump and beats that anti-immigrant drum as loud as anybody.

But, all of her employees are illegals. So, if she got what she claims she wants, I don't know who she'd get to work that hard, under those conditions, for that little pay.

It is the usual pattern of privatizing the profits (in this case of low-wage workers and consumers) and socializing the costs (in this case the education, healthcare, environmental, and crime) onto government (tax-payers.) Which is why- whether it is for votes, ability for bigger government programs, cheap labor, bigger prison population, etc- both Parties are fine with illegal immigration. One could still have the benefit of immigration having a border and legal immigration (and temp worker) policy, most countries do. We could never get 100% out but certainly do a better job....starting with criminal, and civil, penalties for businesses hiring them, a bounty (maybe in terms of a tax-break) for an individual who reports an illegal or a business hiring them, and billing their country of origin whenever we catch them (by withholding foreign aide, seizing/freezing bank-accounts in our Federal Reserve system or private banks, putting a levy on out-going wire and bank transfers to that country, embargo of certain goods, or excise tax...lots of options.)

[aldousburbank]

It can't be both?

Well, I think that's my point. The people are getting screwed after they're here. Likewise, if families are left behind for a paycheck but lose a parent, their whole culture suffers, and so does ours in different ways. I know the people well. I formerly worked in the grape and berry vinyards with my parents, and grew up working for employers who made me, as manager, hire illegals. I loved them, treated them as family, but unless they are doing it legally, everyone suffers imo. I couldn't employ local boys for $2 more an hour?  Well, now that I manage my own business, my only "employees" are a married Mexican couple, with their green cards, children grown and away from home. I could get cheaper labor, but we would all lose something. I have also lived in third world Mexico, not Cabo or Vallarta illusions. I know life's tough at home. I also know from deep personal experience, what happens to families when the mom and/or dad are in the states working. It's fucking sad man. Double fucked.   I still totally believe we'll have an immigration problem until business gets right. Government, churches, or supporting the free infingement of our borders never will. Although strict verification guv'mt enforcement may, sadly. Sucks cuz that's not stuff I like to say. But it's going to be painful getting our own business horses in the barn after decades of free roam with barn door open while we looked the other way and whistled Blowing In The Wind.

[onan]

Well, I think that's my point. The people are getting screwed after they're here. Likewise, if families are left behind for a paycheck but lose a parent, their whole culture suffers, and so does ours in different ways. I know the people well. I formerly worked in the grape and berry vinyards with my parents, and grew up working for employers who made me, as manager, hire illegals. I loved them, treated them as family, but unless they are doing it legally, everyone suffers imo. I couldn't employ local boys for $2 more an hour?  Well, now that I manage my own business, my only "employees" are a married Mexican couple, with their green cards, children grown and away from home. I could get cheaper labor, but we would all lose something. I have also lived in third world Mexico, not Cabo or Vallarta illusions. I know life's tough at home. I also know from deep personal experience, what happens to families when the mom and/or dad are in the states working. It's fucking sad man. Double fucked.   I still totally believe we'll have an immigration problem until business gets right. Government, churches, or supporting the free infingement of our borders never will. Although strict verification guv'mt enforcement may, sadly. Sucks cuz that's not stuff I like to say. But it's going to be painful getting our own business horses in the barn after decades of free roam with barn door open while we looked the other way and whistled Blowing In The Wind.

Very well stated, sir.

[BellBoy]

...BS, if we can go to the moon we can enforce our border, which almost every other country around the world does...

Sorry, as a US ex-pat living in the UK, I call bullshit! We have one hell of a natural fucking moat surrounding the British Isles, here... yet, still they come. European borders bleed misery, each and every day. Welcome to our Brave New World!



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11769718/Calais-crisis-live.html

[albrecht]

Sorry, as a US ex-pat living in the UK, I call bullshit! We have one hell of a natural fucking moat surrounding the British Isles, here... yet, still they come. European borders bleed misery, each and every day. Welcome to our Brave New World!



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11769718/Calais-crisis-live.html

What you mean the stamp that says "employment and recourse to public funds prohibited" or " "leave to enter until.." don't mean anything? haha

I'm well aware of the immigration problem there as well; much of it self-caused as you have a better natural barrier than we do, but your politicians sold you out. And the suicidal kind policies towards immigrants (much kinder in the UK and Europe until recently with immigrants and refugees in some countries able to be on the dole, get public housing, healthcare, bring in their other family members, and other idiotic practices.) I recall in Holland, where I lived, that a lot of the immigrants ALLOWED in weren't even ALLOWED to work and got a government benefits!  Once allowed, or if allowed, to work they would find a way to get fired as soon as their residency was assured and then go on the dole. Whole neighborhoods, trashed out, filled with Moroccans not working, milling about, riding their loud scooters around, etc. Enoch was right. But other countries around the world enforce borders (some even enforce internal borders.) Hell, we as tax-payers often are footing the bill to enforce borders in other countries!

[CornyCrow]

Well, I think that's my point. The people are getting screwed after they're here. Likewise, if families are left behind for a paycheck but lose a parent, their whole culture suffers, and so does ours in different ways. I know the people well. I formerly worked in the grape and berry vinyards with my parents, and grew up working for employers who made me, as manager, hire illegals. I loved them, treated them as family, but unless they are doing it legally, everyone suffers imo. I couldn't employ local boys for $2 more an hour?  Well, now that I manage my own business, my only "employees" are a married Mexican couple, with their green cards, children grown and away from home. I could get cheaper labor, but we would all lose something. I have also lived in third world Mexico, not Cabo or Vallarta illusions. I know life's tough at home. I also know from deep personal experience, what happens to families when the mom and/or dad are in the states working. It's fucking sad man. Double fucked.   I still totally believe we'll have an immigration problem until business gets right. Government, churches, or supporting the free infringement of our borders never will. Although strict verification guv'mt enforcement may, sadly. Sucks cuz that's not stuff I like to say. But it's going to be painful getting our own business horses in the barn after decades of free roam with barn door open while we looked the other way and whistled Blowing In The Wind.

Right, again. 
Hospitals have had to close in the US because of all the people flocking to Emergency for free treatment.
We certainly could penalize companies for hiring illegals - heavily, and with great publicity. 

[Yorkshire pud]

Hmmmmmmm, before anyone thinks Trump is going to be elected as the panacea to all US ills, have a Google for Micheal Farage. He stood in the last General election, on a ticket not disimilar to Trump..

[21st Century Man]

      Stepping in from vacation to make a comment about Trump's political position paper regarding illegal immigration.  In it, he states that he would get rid of birthright citizenship.  How does he propose doing this?  By executive order?  If he uses that method, he is trampling all over the Constitution.    In that regard,he would be no better than Obama.  Maybe he wants the 14th amendment repealed?  Well, good luck with that.  The only way that even has a remote chance of being done is by proposing a new amendment that retains all the other aspects of the 14th amendment. Personally, I think the 14th Amendment has outlived its shelf life.  It was added to the Constitution to punish the South and her participants in the Civil War and it really was bad law even back then.  However, realistically I know the chance of repealing the 14th Amendment is remote.

I can think of some other Amendments that need to be repealed.

       The 16th (income tax) and 26th (lowering the voting age to 18) amendments por ejemplo.  College students in the 18-25 age range should not be allowed to vote because of left-wing collegiate brainwashing that occurs routinely in our esteemed university systems. They can vote when they have lived in the real world for 3 or 4 years.  Raise the voting age to 28-30.  Yours truly knows all about the brainwashing that goes on in the colleges because I resisted and survived the University of Georgia and Rutgers University.  Sure I voted for Reagan when I was 18 but far too few had the fortitude to do so.

     Shit, I leaned Republican when I was 6.  I liked Nixon and thought McGovern was a wimp. I still like Nixon. I did like Jimmy Carter back then but it only took one term to find out that he was a nice guy but not cut out for the Presidency.  The hostage crisis and the misery index were examples of his ineptitude.  Isn't it funny how the misery index is now all but forgotten? I really would have liked to know what the misery index was between 2008 and now. W. Bush and Obama share the blame for that.  I know the repeal of the 26th amendment has .0001 % chance of ever succeeding but I can dream, can't I?

Anyway, to paraphrase the Beatles, if the Trump revolution includes trampling all over the Constitution, well then you can count me out.

Really what do we know about Trump's political positions on other things besides illegal immigration?  He needs to be asked these questions not questions about" the war on women" or other such tripe.

[Yorkshire pud]

Hmmmmmmm, before anyone thinks Trump is going to be elected as the panacea to all US ills, have a Google for Micheal Farage. He stood in the last General election, on a ticket not disimilar to Trump..

That should of course be Nigel Farage!

[Yorkshire pud]

     College students in the 18-25 age range should not be allowed to vote because of left-wing collegiate brainwashing that occurs routinely in our esteemed university systems. They can vote when they have lived in the real world for 3 or 4 years.  Raise the voting age to 28-30.  Yours truly knows all about the brainwashing that goes on in the colleges because I resisted and survived the University of Georgia and Rutgers University.  Sure I voted for Reagan when I was 18 but far too few had the fortitude to do so.

Ahhh. So YOU were clever enough to vote the correct way, but those in your peer group who didn't vote the same didn't have the intelligence or life skills?

It's one hell of an assumption to make that an 18 year old doesn't know as much about life as a 30 year old. Something arbitury as age, experience of life does not make. My mother died last year aged 78. Innocent of some of the things that today's 18 year olds think are boring.

[qaddisin]

I can think of some other Amendments that need to be repealed.

       The 16th (income tax) and 26th (lowering the voting age to 18) amendments por ejemplo.  College students in the 18-25 age range should not be allowed to vote because of left-wing collegiate brainwashing that occurs routinely in our esteemed university systems. They can vote when they have lived in the real world for 3 or 4 years.  Raise the voting age to 28-30.  Yours truly knows all about the brainwashing that goes on in the colleges because I resisted and survived the University of Georgia and Rutgers University.  Sure I voted for Reagan when I was 18 but far too few had the fortitude to do so.

So, by that logic, people should not be allowed to join the military until that age as well? If an 18 year old isn't informed enough to vote, they obviously shouldn't be saddled with the decision to give their life for their country? Blaming the university system for bad government is like blaming your spoon for making you fat.

[21st Century Man]

So, by that logic, people should not be allowed to join the military until that age as well? If an 18 year old isn't informed enough to vote, they obviously shouldn't be saddled with the decision to give their life for their country? Blaming the university system for bad government is like blaming your spoon for making you fat.

I came back to address this.  I would make an exception for the military.  They would be allowed to vote once they enter the military at 18.  Look, I know this will never happen but I can dream.

[21st Century Man]

Ahhh. So YOU were clever enough to vote the correct way, but those in your peer group who didn't vote the same didn't have the intelligence or life skills?

It's one hell of an assumption to make that an 18 year old doesn't know as much about life as a 30 year old. Something arbitury as age, experience of life does not make. My mother died last year aged 78. Innocent of some of the things that today's 18 year olds think are boring.

An 18 year old does not know as much a 30 year old unless that 18 year old has lived a particularly 18 hellish years.  I'm talking about the average person.  Most 18 year olds don't give a damn about politics unless their favorite celebrity or network, MTV por ejemplo, start proselytizing.  I was not immune to this when I was that age but I was also an independent thinker.

[qaddisin]

I came back to address this.  I would make an exception for the military.  They would be allowed to vote once they enter the military at 18.  Look, I know this will never happen but I can dream.

What is the difference between an 18 year old that joins the military to defend the country and an 18 year old that goes to school because he knows he wants to be a doctor and save lives? One is less noble than the other, because he's going to be indoctrinated by "left-wing educational ideology"?

If you tried to share your "dream" in the mold of Heinlein's idea in Starship Troopers, where one can only be called a citizen and earn the rights thereof if they offer a portion of their lives to public service (military, doctor, teacher, what have you), I could likely see your case and might even agree with you. But the way you sound, you see those that are younger and do not have the same political outlook as you as, at best, poor pitiful misguided creatures that just need a couple more years to see how the "real world really works", or at worst, insipid and vacuous tools of a manipulative machine that don't deserve any rights until they agree with your reality.

[CornyCrow]

An 18 year old does not know as much a 30 year old unless that 18 year old has lived a particularly 18 hellish years.  I'm talking about the average person.  Most 18 year olds don't give a damn about politics unless their favorite celebrity or network, MTV por ejemplo, start proselytizing.  I was not immune to this when I was that age but I was also an independent thinker.

Well, you must know this, but the part of the brain that makes decisions does not finish growing until sometime in a person's twenties - usually the early twenties, but sometimes as late as 27.  If this is the case, should criminals not be charged as full adults until then?  Is a person a fully responsible human before he is capable of making decisions?  If there is a sliding scale which designates full humanhood as being somewhere in a person's twenties, where does that leave the abortion issue?   

[CornyCrow]

Yeah, well if we're lucky we are all works in progress and will continue to change as the years progress.  To live is to change.  It's a good thing.  We gain insights.   

[Yorkshire pud]

An 18 year old does not know as much a 30 year old unless that 18 year old has lived a particularly 18 hellish years.

Why make the assumption that it has to be hellish? Almost all humans (other than psychopaths) don't deal very well with catastrophic psychological trauma. Most humans never experience it, even those who live to a ripe old age. Most have the day to day mundane things. The lucky ones have an education, go onto further education/ job etc..settle down, family, bills etc...What about the 18-19 year old who has travelled extensively; studied reams of books; met and interacted with people in far off places? Would you say they're leading a hellish life? Or they don't have the life skills to make reasoned decisions?

If only the over 25's have any say in electing their leaders what suggests things are going to be better? Because 'someone like us' will be leader? Well before women got the vote there is no empirical evidence only men of the time got someone 'like them'. If someone is capable of deciding they want to make a career of being a poet, doctor, engineer, soldier, mechanic, plumber, dentist or carpenter and have a proportion of their earnings either sooner or later taken by the government, they sure have a right to vote for who it is that will take that money.

I'm talking about the average person.  Most 18 year olds don't give a damn about politics unless their favorite celebrity or network, MTV por ejemplo, start proselytizing.  I was not immune to this when I was that age but I was also an independent thinker.

It's interesting the 'average' person can have a gun in the US, but no checks on their ability to make rational choices in it's use are made unless they're already deemed unfit. One hell of an assumption on the ones who aren't in that bracket don't you think?

[Quick Karl]

I have no clue how anyone can possibly support the immigration policies that currently exist -- it defies logic and common sense.

The paradox is that the "open border" policy flies in the face of the hatred its supporters have for the businesses that benefit from the LOW WAGE LABOR that open borders provides to them. How anyone can not connect those dots, escapes me.

Trump is the best thing to happen to American Politics since The Founding of the Country -- he's like the father that comes home to a house full of out-of-control belligerent children that disrespect and abuse their mother (America), and kicks some ass and restores discipline and respect... And, he is like a giant fuck-you to the political-correctness class.

I pray to God that Trump becomes our next President -- and a sweet side-effect of that will be that we will FINALLY find out where Obama was really born.

[FightTheFuture]

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money

         
   -- Alexis de Tocqueville


We`re there, and it`s over. The end.

[qaddisin]

Well, since he's come out in favor of Planned Parenthood, you guys need to figure out which one you hate more: abortion or Mexicans.

[Yorkshire pud]

Well, since he's come out in favor of Planned Parenthood, you guys need to figure out which one you hate more: abortion or Mexicans.

Pushmepullme? 

[FightTheFuture]

We lost thousands of people in Iraq and we have thousands of people walking around without an arm, without a leg and worse than that. Give them millions (from the oil)

  -- Donald Trump


Behold, my favorite candidate.

Trump 2016!

[Yorkshire pud]

We lost thousands of people in Iraq and we have thousands of people walking around without an arm, without a leg and worse than that. Give them millions (from the oil)

  -- Donald Trump


Behold, my favorite candidate.

Trump 2016!

Yeah. They can take it from the likes of Cheney and his mates who made billions from the illegal war.

[FightTheFuture]

Yeah. They can take it from the likes of Cheney and his mates who made billions from the illegal war.

Cheney didn`t make a dime. He stepped down as CEO of Halliburton before he was even elected. He even donated his stock options to charity. Get over it, already.

[Yorkshire pud]

Cheney didn`t make a dime. He stepped down as CEO of Halliburton before he was even elected. He even donated his stock options to charity. Get over it, already.

Yeah, the poor bastards who came back with their arms and legs blown off can 'get over it too'. How much did they make? The none mercenaries that is.

I said "The likes of Cheney and his mates"; plural individuals. Or do you cling onto the fantasy there was no monetary incentive to invade a country or two and make sure all the 'rebuilding' contracts went exclusively to US corporations? You know the ones; they have CEO's who don't give a shit about the human cost.

[FightTheFuture]

Yeah, the poor bastards who came back with their arms and legs blown off can 'get over it too'. How much did they make? The none mercenaries that is.

I said "The likes of Cheney and his mates"; plural individuals. Or do you cling onto the fantasy there was no monetary incentive to invade a country or two and make sure all the 'rebuilding' contracts went exclusively to US corporations? You know the ones; they have CEO's who don't giv.e a shit about the human cost.

My God, are you ever dense. China was the greatest benefactor of post-war Iraq contracts, and EVERYBODY knows it....but you, apparently.

And please stop your nauseating demagoguery. You freaking spineless worm. You make me ill.

[Yorkshire pud]

My God, are you ever dense. China was the greatest benefactor of post-war Iraq contracts, and EVERYBODY knows it....but you, apparently.

And please stop your nauseating demagoguery. You freaking spineless worm. You make me ill.

He he...never mind, god'll make you better. But not the injured soldiers eh? Or have they found God to make their limbs grow back?