Trump

[NowhereInTime]

Cheney didn`t make a dime. He stepped down as CEO of Halliburton before he was even elected. He even donated his stock options to charity. Get over it, already.

Oh, come off it.  You are either the most cynical SOB or the most naive motherfucker to walk this planet.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/04/18/203066/-Cheney-s-shady-charitable-contributions-net-2-million-refund#

[aldousburbank]

Oh, come off it.  You are either the most cynical SOB or the most naive motherfucker to walk this planet.

Can't it be both?

[NowhereInTime]

Can't it be both?

Yeah, but that would be one fucked up individual.

[FightTheFuture]

Oh, come off it.  You are either the most cynical SOB or the most naive motherfucker to walk this planet.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/04/18/203066/-Cheney-s-shady-charitable-contributions-net-2-million-refund#

My God, man! Why do I even bother.

We are talking about war profiteering, not utilizing  existing tax laws to maximize a tax refund that he's entitled to. Cheney quit as CEO of HAL when he didn't even have to! The man walked away from  -- conservatively -- $100 -300M or more. To accuse Cheney of war profiteering is utter nonsense.

Stay away from The daily kook, NiT. They're no good for you.

[CornyCrow]

Well, since he's come out in favor of Planned Parenthood, you guys need to figure out which one you hate more: abortion or Mexicans.

Woman have performed abortions through the centuries, legal or not.
Illegals chew at the fabric of the country and will permanently change it.

[qaddisin]

Woman have performed abortions through the centuries, legal or not.
Illegals chew at the fabric of the country and will permanently change it.

[albrecht]

That should of course be Nigel Farage!

I love that guy. If only Trump were as funny and well-spoken in the speeches. His speeches to the EU Parliament are hilarious, and true. I loved watching Van Rompuy, Barasso, and the other bureaucrats squirm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBGKoB6TjBM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63poBimnMV0

[Who]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-41fbDYZyLo

[Quick Karl]

Well, I think that's my point. The people are getting screwed after they're here. Likewise, if families are left behind for a paycheck but lose a parent, their whole culture suffers, and so does ours in different ways. I know the people well. I formerly worked in the grape and berry vinyards with my parents, and grew up working for employers who made me, as manager, hire illegals. I loved them, treated them as family, but unless they are doing it legally, everyone suffers imo. I couldn't employ local boys for $2 more an hour?  Well, now that I manage my own business, my only "employees" are a married Mexican couple, with their green cards, children grown and away from home. I could get cheaper labor, but we would all lose something. I have also lived in third world Mexico, not Cabo or Vallarta illusions. I know life's tough at home. I also know from deep personal experience, what happens to families when the mom and/or dad are in the states working. It's fucking sad man. Double fucked.   I still totally believe we'll have an immigration problem until business gets right. Government, churches, or supporting the free infingement of our borders never will. Although strict verification guv'mt enforcement may, sadly. Sucks cuz that's not stuff I like to say. But it's going to be painful getting our own business horses in the barn after decades of free roam with barn door open while we looked the other way and whistled Blowing In The Wind.

You should post your thoughts here, a LOT more often.

[Quick Karl]

My God, are you ever dense. China was the greatest benefactor of post-war Iraq contracts, and EVERYBODY knows it....but you, apparently.

And please stop your nauseating demagoguery. You freaking spineless worm. You make me ill.

[paladin1991]

It can't be both?

What?  You running for president?

No, bro.  You have to pick a side.  And I don't mean a side of hummus, neither.

[paladin1991]

It is the usual pattern of privatizing the profits (in this case of low-wage workers and consumers) and socializing the costs (in this case the education, healthcare, environmental, and crime) onto government (tax-payers.) Which is why- whether it is for votes, ability for bigger government programs, cheap labor, bigger prison population, etc- both Parties are fine with illegal immigration. One could still have the benefit of immigration having a border and legal immigration (and temp worker) policy, most countries do. We could never get 100% out but certainly do a better job....starting with criminal, and civil, penalties for businesses hiring them, a bounty (maybe in terms of a tax-break) for an individual who reports an illegal or a business hiring them, and billing their country of origin whenever we catch them (by withholding foreign aide, seizing/freezing bank-accounts in our Federal Reserve system or private banks, putting a levy on out-going wire and bank transfers to that country, embargo of certain goods, or excise tax...lots of options.)

If'n it's a hunnert a head.....living here in the People's Republic of California, Sur....carry the one....divide....divide again....drop the remainder.....multiply by....shit...I'll never have to work again!

[paladin1991]

Well, I think that's my point. The people are getting screwed after they're here. Likewise, if families are left behind for a paycheck but lose a parent, their whole culture suffers, and so does ours in different ways. I know the people well. I formerly worked in the grape and berry vinyards with my parents, and grew up working for employers who made me, as manager, hire illegals. I loved them, treated them as family, but unless they are doing it legally, everyone suffers imo. I couldn't employ local boys for $2 more an hour?  Well, now that I manage my own business, my only "employees" are a married Mexican couple, with their green cards, children grown and away from home. I could get cheaper labor, but we would all lose something. I have also lived in third world Mexico, not Cabo or Vallarta illusions. I know life's tough at home. I also know from deep personal experience, what happens to families when the mom and/or dad are in the states working. It's fucking sad man. Double fucked.   I still totally believe we'll have an immigration problem until business gets right. Government, churches, or supporting the free infingement of our borders never will. Although strict verification guv'mt enforcement may, sadly. Sucks cuz that's not stuff I like to say. But it's going to be painful getting our own business horses in the barn after decades of free roam with barn door open while we looked the other way and whistled Blowing In The Wind.

I accept all that you have said, Aldous.   And I 'know' that it's a bitch.  But we have to fix this.   Depending on which course 'we' choose, it's not gonna be pretty, easy or even the 'truly' right thing to do for all concerned.  But we've got to preserve our national identity our plastic, if you will, culture.  It's ours.  The financial wells are running dry and we can't even take care of our own.

It's a shit sandwich with a bowl of shit soup.   

[paladin1991]

Sorry, as a US ex-pat living in the UK, I call bullshit! We have one hell of a natural fucking moat surrounding the British Isles, here... yet, still they come. European borders bleed misery, each and every day. Welcome to our Brave New World!



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11769718/Calais-crisis-live.html

I seem to recall that the majority of the UK's immigrants are fm their former colonies.  Is this incorrect?  Are they overrun with illegals or overrun with citizens of former colonies?  There is a difference.

[albrecht]

If'n it's a hunnert a head.....living here in the People's Republic of California, Sur....carry the one....divide....divide again....drop the remainder.....multiply by....shit...I'll never have to work again!

Yep, same here. Generally I don't like the idea of ratting out people, businesses, etc unless they are committing real crimes. In this case it is a real crime that costs us all money. So a bounty would be a good option. But biggest would be to punish companies who hire. Maybe they call the people who help the illegals over "coyotes" for a reason? Maybe a REAL bounty on them, like done with yotes, and then a tax-break or cash-voucher for reporting of an illegal or a business hiring them (graduated, like IRS fraud reporting, based on the numbers?) In a few years, problem solved....even illegals, or their "families" here, would be reporting them to get the $. Shareholders, insurance companies, underwriters, banks wouldn't want to hold interest, or invest in, companies using illegals lest a huge (or unexpected) liability etc. The countries sending/allowing illegals would be forced to implode totally or reform (instead of sending their hard-workers, their private capital, their young, or their rich/educated to other places that eliminates any reform of those countries.) For too long we've used NA and Europe and a "release valve" to allow corruption and abuse in other countries.

[paladin1991]

Right, again. 
Hospitals have had to close in the US because of all the people flocking to Emergency for free treatment.
We certainly could penalize companies for hiring illegals - heavily, and with great publicity.

Maybe we could make an example of a few dozen large business owners.  PUblic trials, stripped of their business and all wealth and possessions....families forced to move into the public housing that their employees live in.  Yeah.  I like that.

[albrecht]

I seem to recall that the majority of the UK's immigrants are fm their former colonies.  Is this incorrect?  Are they overrun with illegals or overrun with citizens of former colonies?  There is a difference.

When Enoch was talking (and he was right) much was from former colonies and citizens (and their families.) Now they are coming from new EU members (Eastern Bloc etc,) various Asians (to them MiddleEast to India,) former Empire but not citizens when it was, etc. All of Europe is dealing with this, especially those on the border with N.Africa and Muslim lands. Much of which didn't have huge empires (arguably, I guess, the Hungarians were a part of one. haha. But long ago and a minor part for political dynastic purposes. They are now putting up hunting parties I'm told on the border. Not to shoot, supposedly.) But arguably many of the immigrants, even illegal, come from former lands invaded, occupied (or owned) but using that logic one could go almost anywhere....

[paladin1991]

What is the difference between an 18 year old that joins the military to defend the country and an 18 year old that goes to school because he knows he wants to be a doctor and save lives? One is less noble than the other, because he's going to be indoctrinated by "left-wing educational ideology"?

If you tried to share your "dream" in the mold of Heinlein's idea in Starship Troopers, where one can only be called a citizen and earn the rights thereof if they offer a portion of their lives to public service (military, doctor, teacher, what have you), I could likely see your case and might even agree with you. But the way you sound, you see those that are younger and do not have the same political outlook as you as, at best, poor pitiful misguided creatures that just need a couple more years to see how the "real world really works", or at worst, insipid and vacuous tools of a manipulative machine that don't deserve any rights until they agree with your reality.

*sigh*  Starship Troopers.  Read that book and fell in love with it in 6th grade.  Citizenship, should be a badge of accountability and not birth.  What a concept! 

But wait, then we have citizens, natural born residents and still, illegal aliens.  What went wrong?

[paladin1991]

Why make the assumption that it has to be hellish? Almost all humans (other than psychopaths) don't deal very well with catastrophic psychological trauma. Most humans never experience it, even those who live to a ripe old age. Most have the day to day mundane things. The lucky ones have an education, go onto further education/ job etc..settle down, family, bills etc...What about the 18-19 year old who has travelled extensively; studied reams of books; met and interacted with people in far off places? Would you say they're leading a hellish life? Or they don't have the life skills to make reasoned decisions?

If only the over 25's have any say in electing their leaders what suggests things are going to be better? Because 'someone like us' will be leader? Well before women got the vote there is no empirical evidence only men of the time got someone 'like them'. If someone is capable of deciding they want to make a career of being a poet, doctor, engineer, soldier, mechanic, plumber, dentist or carpenter and have a proportion of their earnings either sooner or later taken by the government, they sure have a right to vote for who it is that will take that money.
It's interesting the 'average' person can have a gun in the US, but no checks on their ability to make rational choices in it's use are made unless they're already deemed unfit. One hell of an assumption on the ones who aren't in that bracket don't you think?

Come on Pud, bringing up firearms again?  I know you guys don't have any at the private level.  But I will do you a solid.  Come to visit, we'll drink, we'll go shoot.  Then you can go home and have your mates all line up to smell your fingers.

[paladin1991]

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money

         
   -- Alexis de Tocqueville


We`re there, and it`s over. The end.

Maranatha!

[21st Century Man]

What is the difference between an 18 year old that joins the military to defend the country and an 18 year old that goes to school because he knows he wants to be a doctor and save lives? One is less noble than the other, because he's going to be indoctrinated by "left-wing educational ideology"?

If you tried to share your "dream" in the mold of Heinlein's idea in Starship Troopers, where one can only be called a citizen and earn the rights thereof if they offer a portion of their lives to public service (military, doctor, teacher, what have you), I could likely see your case and might even agree with you. But the way you sound, you see those that are younger and do not have the same political outlook as you as, at best, poor pitiful misguided creatures that just need a couple more years to see how the "real world really works", or at worst, insipid and vacuous tools of a manipulative machine that don't deserve any rights until they agree with your reality.

Umm, the person joining the military is risking his life and limbs for flag and country. The college student is not risking anything except his own time and money or maybe I should say the People's money in some cases.  Don't deny the fact that colleges are trying to brainwash kids because that is exactly what is going on.

[21st Century Man]

Why make the assumption that it has to be hellish? Almost all humans (other than psychopaths) don't deal very well with catastrophic psychological trauma. Most humans never experience it, even those who live to a ripe old age. Most have the day to day mundane things. The lucky ones have an education, go onto further education/ job etc..settle down, family, bills etc...What about the 18-19 year old who has travelled extensively; studied reams of books; met and interacted with people in far off places? Would you say they're leading a hellish life? Or they don't have the life skills to make reasoned decisions?

If only the over 25's have any say in electing their leaders what suggests things are going to be better? Because 'someone like us' will be leader? Well before women got the vote there is no empirical evidence only men of the time got someone 'like them'. If someone is capable of deciding they want to make a career of being a poet, doctor, engineer, soldier, mechanic, plumber, dentist or carpenter and have a proportion of their earnings either sooner or later taken by the government, they sure have a right to vote for who it is that will take that money.
It's interesting the 'average' person can have a gun in the US, but no checks on their ability to make rational choices in it's use are made unless they're already deemed unfit. One hell of an assumption on the ones who aren't in that bracket don't you think?

[Yorkshire pud]

Come on Pud, bringing up firearms again?  I know you guys don't have any at the private level.  But I will do you a solid.  Come to visit, we'll drink, we'll go shoot.  Then you can go home and have your mates all line up to smell your fingers.

Lol...Pssst. I can shoot. ..taught by RAF instructors. I went on a range a few weeks ago and had ten rounds, eight within 1/2 inch of each other. One stray (3 inch) and one within an inch of the other eight. 25 yards. As the bloke said. Whatever I was aiming for would have been killed. Not bad considering the last time I picked a rifle up was about 38 years ago.

[Yorkshire pud]

Umm, the person joining the military is risking his life and limbs for flag and country. The college student is not risking anything except his own time and money or maybe I should say the People's money in some cases.  Don't deny the fact that colleges are trying to brainwash kids because that is exactly what is going on.

And soldiers aren't subjected to brainwashing? Really? 

[paladin1991]

Lol...Pssst. I can shoot. ..taught by RAF instructors. I went on a range a few weeks ago and had ten rounds, eight within 1/2 inch of each other. One stray (3 inch) and one within an inch of the other eight. 25 yards. As the bloke said. Whatever I was aiming for would have been killed. Not bad considering the last time I picked a rifle up was about 38 years ago.

You fucking codger.  Better not fucking die on me before we drink together. 

I used to shoot like that.  With a pistol.     Ba dum tish.......

[Quick Karl]

Umm, the person joining the military is risking his life and limbs for flag and country. The college student is not risking anything except his own time and money or maybe I should say the People's money in some cases.  Don't deny the fact that colleges are trying to brainwash kids because that is exactly what is going on.

I'm giving you an A+ on this one!

[Quick Karl]

Lol...Pssst. I can shoot. ..taught by RAF instructors. I went on a range a few weeks ago and had ten rounds, eight within 1/2 inch of each other. One stray (3 inch) and one within an inch of the other eight. 25 yards. As the bloke said. Whatever I was aiming for would have been killed. Not bad considering the last time I picked a rifle up was about 38 years ago.

You fucking codger.  Better not fucking die on me before we drink together. 

I used to shoot like that.  With a pistol.     Ba dum tish.......

Fucking 25-yards - what a fucking pussy. This fucking idiot HAS to sound like Ethel Merman when he defecates out of his mouth.

[albrecht]

Lol...Pssst. I can shoot. ..taught by RAF instructors. I went on a range a few weeks ago and had ten rounds, eight within 1/2 inch of each other. One stray (3 inch) and one within an inch of the other eight. 25 yards. As the bloke said. Whatever I was aiming for would have been killed. Not bad considering the last time I picked a rifle up was about 38 years ago.

25 yards? Won't you be fined for saying that? I thought some unelected EU foreign bureaucrat, judge, or politician in Brussels, Strasbourg, or Luxembourg has mandated that you use the metric system?

[Yorkshire pud]

You fucking codger.  Better not fucking die on me before we drink together. 

I used to shoot like that.  With a pistol.     Ba dum tish.......


Fucking 25-yards - what a fucking pussy. This fucking idiot HAS to sound like Ethel Merman when he defecates out of his mouth.

You're quite right...I used to get 5 rounds grouping at 100 yards with a Le Enfield .303, Manual loading, but I was 14 years old. What about you pussy?

I did ask him to extend the range but he said 25 was it..hey ho. Damned buliders eh?

[Yorkshire pud]

25 yards? Won't you be fined for saying that? I thought some unelected EU foreign bureaucrat, judge, or politician in Brussels, Strasbourg, or Luxembourg has mandated that you use the metric system?

I won't tell em if you won't.