Zimmerman Riots?

[Yorkshire pud]

Hey, Yorkie... do the English still use the term "bird" to describe a pretty woman?  Or is that a bit like the American "broad" or "dame" -- used only by someone who was young in the 1940's & 50's?  Actually, now that I think about it, Dennis Miller (American comedian/talk show host) still used both terms, but he's going for a Sinatraesque hipster thing.

You hear it occasionally...Around here and further north east you hear (by a man) 'Our lass' to describe his wife or girlfriend. Liverpool men sometimes say 'Our tart'.. If you're not ready for the dry humour, some references can seem offensive, but most are said with affection.

[coaster]

That well-known intellectual and political commentator, Kim Kardashian, had this me-too tweet about her view of the horrible, terrible, not so good injustice of America's judicial system:

         "My heart goes out to Trayvon Martin’s family & loved ones. Thought & prayers being sent their way #NoJustice"

Kim sorta forgot her father, lawyer Robert Kardashian, was one of the OJ Simpson attorneys who achieved a 100% acquittal for that black man accused of murdering two white people. But remember, it's "#NoJustice" in America for blacks. http://abovethelaw.com/2013/07/nojustice-kim-kardashian-forgets-her-father-represented-o-j-simpson/

This makes my head hurt.

[Jackpine Savage]

I was questioning the actual word homophobe as a word to mean what it does. I accept that some people don't approve of homosexuality; but why I'm not sure. That someone I know or is related to being homosexual has no bearing on how I feel towards them.

I don't think it's really a matter of a person having homosexual inclinations that some find offensive, it is the numerous "lifestyle" peculiarities that accompany. Empirically, many of the practices engaged in by homosexuals have numerous negative public health implications. There is a reason homosexual men are not allowed to donate blood. It is not founded in phobia but in statistical research and hard science. It is the use of emotional and moral terms like "shameful" "hurtful" "hateful" "unfair" etc. being applied to things that should be examined scientifically and without emotional bias that I find troubling. Empiricism is a useful tool when examining whether society should condone or discourage certain practices. To paraphrase Batman, sometimes the answer we need isn't the one we want. It might make a child happy today to give him candy for every breakfast, but twenty years later he will be much more unhappy for it.

[Yorkshire pud]

I don't think it's really a matter of a person having homosexual inclinations that some find offensive, it is the numerous "lifestyle" peculiarities that accompany. Empirically, many of the practices engaged in by homosexuals have numerous negative public health implications. There is a reason homosexual men are not allowed to donate blood.

I don't know about the USA, but over here it's anyone who engages in anal sex, or has multiple partners (Their gender is irrelevant) . Our blood donors don't get paid, so they have less incentive to lie. But the blood is screened anyway for Hep and HIV.

It is not founded in phobia but in statistical research and hard science. It is the use of emotional and moral terms like "shameful" "hurtful" "hateful" "unfair" etc. being applied to things that should be examined scientifically and without emotional bias that I find troubling. Empiricism is a useful tool when examining whether society should condone or discourage certain practices. To paraphrase Batman, sometimes the answer we need isn't the one we want. It might make a child happy today to give him candy for every breakfast, but twenty years later he will be much more unhappy for it.

Once upon a time the sight of stocking was considered shocking...
Meanwhile in the REALWORLDâ,,¢ emotions and feelings don't take heed to science. In fact a church that was specifically set up to 'cure' homosexuality folded a few weeks ago, because a) It's leader discovered he's bi sexual (Quelle Suprise!) b) He realised that the ten years he'd spent 'curing' homosexuals and lesbians had been counter productive and driven some to suicide, and was also pointless exercise anyway. 


Unerringly I find in whatever contentious subject such as this, the ones (such as the mentioned church leader) doing the preaching and having the most vitriol always get found wanting; call it self loathing. But he'll no doubt now find who his real friends are. My money is they're not in his former church. 

[Jackpine Savage]

Sure there are quacks who oppose homosexuality, but what does that prove? That there are quacks?

One interesting bit of research on some primitive tribes during the seventies found that homosexuality was unheard of by these tribes. This is not to say they didn't have sex, in fact they had sex at a much higher rate than more advanced societies. And it was not just homosexuality that was unheard of. A whole host of modern sexual practices were unheard of by these peoples. This seems to imply homosexuality is mostly fetishistic. The high rate of homosexuality in prisons also implies it is likely a product of a disfunctional society responding to some imbalance.

[MV/Liberace!]

I don't know about the USA, but over here it's anyone who engages in anal sex...

it would be hilarious to walk in to donate blood, answer the anal sex question incorrectly, and then walk out and loudly announce to the waiting room as you depart, "they won't take me because someone humped my butt." 


i don't know why i find that scenario so funny.  these are the little "what if's" i concoct in my mind to keep myself occupied and off the streets.

[Jackpine Savage]

Unerringly I find in whatever contentious subject such as this, the ones (such as the mentioned church leader) doing the preaching and having the most vitriol always get found wanting; call it self loathing. But he'll no doubt now find who his real friends are. My money is they're not in his former church. 

I do agree though, when someone is that obsessed with homosexuality, it suggests other underlying issues. Same reason I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Hanson got caught soliciting an underage girl. This self-hate is common among fetishists, and seems to support the thesis of homosexuality as a fetish, and invalidates the idea of "sexual orientation".

"they won't take me because someone humped my butt." 

heh!

[MV/Liberace!]

I do agree though, when someone is that obsessed with homosexuality, it suggests other underlying issues.

then fred phelps is in possession of a collection of black dongs that would stretch from here to... well, let's pick lima, ohio.

[onan]

I don't think most people labeled homophobes by the PC cathedral are enraged or violent, they simply find the practice distasteful and do not want it affecting their personal lives. This is enough to have one labeled "phobic".

I am not sure what your point is other than to marginalize those that may be suggesting a need for a higher level of awareness. There are always going to be those that are more concrete in thought and inflexible in reasoning. I wasn't discussing those, perhaps I could have been clearer.


The fact is heterosexuals are hardly if ever harassed with violence. The fact is young homosexual men are 5 times more likely to commit suicide than young heterosexual men. Very few of us live in a vacuum and your position that PC is frivolous or worse, bothersome, is without any value. Now to back peddle a bit I understand what a pain in the ass it is to rethink calling your best friend faggot... because there was no specific intent. I am not trying to be mother teresa, but taking a look at our behaviors and revamping them is part of growing up... as painful as that can be.

Sure there are quacks who oppose homosexuality, but what does that prove? That there are quacks?

One interesting bit of research on some primitive tribes during the seventies found that homosexuality was unheard of by these tribes. This is not to say they didn't have sex, in fact they had sex at a much higher rate than more advanced societies. And it was not just homosexuality that was unheard of. A whole host of modern sexual practices were unheard of by these peoples. This seems to imply homosexuality is mostly fetishistic. The high rate of homosexuality in prisons also implies it is likely a product of a disfunctional society responding to some imbalance.

First, they are quacks because they think they can pray the gay away... and that does not support any argument that gay is some kind of social or genetic weakness.


And a subset of 30000 pygmies does not even come close to the number of gay men in California alone. When societal pressures are about survival sexual preferences are hardly on the table of discussion. but it is an interesting anthropological study. It is too bad that some whack bible thumper attached the idea that sex is about procreation and enjoyment is not god's plan.

I don't think it's really a matter of a person having homosexual inclinations that some find offensive, it is the numerous "lifestyle" peculiarities that accompany. Empirically, many of the practices engaged in by homosexuals have numerous negative public health implications. There is a reason homosexual men are not allowed to donate blood. It is not founded in phobia but in statistical research and hard science. It is the use of emotional and moral terms like "shameful" "hurtful" "hateful" "unfair" etc. being applied to things that should be examined scientifically and without emotional bias that I find troubling. Empiricism is a useful tool when examining whether society should condone or discourage certain practices. To paraphrase Batman, sometimes the answer we need isn't the one we want. It might make a child happy today to give him candy for every breakfast, but twenty years later he will be much more unhappy for it.

In 2010 of the 870,000+ people with HIV only 440,000 were men who had sex with other men. So empirical evidence should stop all blood donations?
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/facts/index.html


In most countries HIV spread much more evenly through both male and female populations. But in the US it became much more associated with homosexual males.

[Eddie Coyle]

          I used to enjoy telling my students that endlessly parroted lines from Scarface that the man who played Sosa, Paul Shenar, was in real life, a gay man who died of AIDS.

          They had no idea. And probably still don't. Very stupid beings.

[Jackpine Savage]

In 2010 of the 870,000  people with HIV only 440,000 were men who had sex with other men. So empirical evidence should stop all blood donations?
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/facts/index.html

Uh yeah, for homosexual men, it makes sense. When 2% of the population has more than half of all the cases of HIV infection, I'd call that a pretty hardcore correlating risk factor. What would you call it? Coincidence?

I used to enjoy telling my students that endlessly parroted lines from Scarface that the man who played Sosa, Paul Shenar, was in real life, a gay man who died of AIDS.

          They had no idea. And probably still don't. Very stupid beings. 

Yeah, Hollywood has a long habit of selling images and personalities to the public that aren't what they seem. 

[Jackpine Savage]

I know we are supposed to ignore numbers and statistics that don't coincide with progressive social theory, but come on, when a given subset of  population is 44x more likely to contract HIV, don't you think that tells you something? Also, gay acceptance is at an all time high in this country, yet homosexual males continue to commit suicide at a prodigious rate. I think maybe, just maybe, society may be doing these men a disservice by accommodating their lifestyle as that lifestyle seems to be the root of these negatives. Or is it all just Fred Phelp's fault?

http://www.gmhc.org/news-and-events/press-releases/gay-men-44-times-more-likely-to-get-hiv

[onan]

Uh yeah. When 2% of the population has more than half of all the cases of HIV infection, I'd call that a pretty hardcore correlating risk factor. What would you call it? Coincidence? Lol

Yep bad argument from me.


I think you are gay.

[Jackpine Savage]

Yep bad argument from me.


I think you are gay.

gay

[onan]

gay

good to see we can keep this light. thanks for that.

[Jackpine Savage]

good to see we can keep this light. thanks for that.

Heh, loafer light.

[onan]

Heh, loafer light.

yeah my shoes are comfortable... and they match.

[Marc.Knight]

Yep bad argument from me.


I think you are gay.

I swear this forum is your little piece of hell you go to for self-flagellation.

[onan]

I swear this forum is your little piece of hell you go to for self-flagellation.

If you haven't noticed... I am far from alone.

[Marc.Knight]

If you haven't noticed... I am far from alone.

Yep.

[b_dubb]

is this a friendly exchange? or are you guys foaming at the mouth?  i can't tell

[Flaxen Hegemony]

is this a friendly exchange? or are you guys foaming at the mouth?  i can't tell

(Kramer voice/)

Oh, I think we're looking at a bit of both here, Jerry.  Eee-yah!

(/Kramer voice)

[lonevoice]

I think rev al sharpton got involved there too. A common thread? God I hate that asshole.

Two words:  Tawana Brawley

have you seen his tv show on msnbc?  it's utterly and completely unwatchable. 

The "Reverend" went to the Jorch Noory School of Broadcasting...

Al Sharpton's Hilarious Teleprompter Flub On MSNBC Show

[Sardondi]

          I used to enjoy telling my students that endlessly parroted lines from Scarface that the man who played Sosa, Paul Shenar, was in real life, a gay man who died of AIDS.

          They had no idea. And probably still don't. Very stupid beings.

But if you recall, he sent signals of that in the film. Sosa was endlessly warning Montana, "Don't fuck me Tony - I'm HIV positive!"

Maybe I don't have that last part right.

[Eddie Coyle]

But if you recall, he sent signals of that in the film. Sosa was endlessly warning Montana, "Don't fuck me Tony - I'm HIV positive!"

Maybe I don't have that last part right.

         Those scenes were filmed in early '83...it was the GRID! 

         Through, actually, had that movie been filmed in 1985 or so, the HIV angle could been a storyline. Detention centers from Florida to Arkansas housing the Cuban emigres had an AIDS epidemic in the mid 80's.

[Jackpine Savage]

yeah my shoes are comfortable... and they match.

lol

is this a friendly exchange? or are you guys foaming at the mouth?  i can't tell

On my way to protest a funeral, get back to you later.

[Yorkshire pud]

Yeah, Hollywood has a long habit of selling images and personalities to the public that aren't what they seem.

With a few degrees of separation, you're correct.  Hollywood made a film that basically re-wrote the actual events surrounding the capture of the enigma codes from a U boat in WW2.. It caused a great deal of consternation in the UK, to the extent that cinemas put up posters expressing their concern, and that they accepted it was pure fiction (in almost every sense of the word), and of their support of Royal Navy veterans.


The significance is that in a place called Bletchley Park (called Station X in WW2), that didn't even officially exist until long after the war; the cream of Oxford and Cambridge mathematicians and linguists were working around the clock to try and break the enigma codes. The Bond novelist Ian Fleming worked there. Conservative estimates say their work shortened the war by at least two years. A brilliant mathematician called Alan Turning was the head of the project that would result in Collussus. It was actually built by a telephone engineer called Tommy Flowers (Later to be Dr Thomas Flowers)..Turning though was the guy who (as the Americans say) 'Did the math'.
Collusus was the forerunner to how you're probably reading this; the computer.


Post war Turning was a victim of the politics of the time..You see, homosexual practices were made illegal. Turing was a homosexual. He committed suicide because of the pressure from his paymasters.


So the man who helped shorten the war and invented the computer was driven to his death because of the nonacceptance in society of his sexual orientation. I don't know about you, but I think he (and many like him) deserved far better.

[Flaxen Hegemony]

The significance is that in a place called Bletchley Park (called Station X in WW2), that didn't even officially exist until long after the war; the cream of Oxford and Cambridge mathematicians and linguists were working around the clock to try and break the enigma codes. The Bond novelist Ian Fleming worked there. Conservative estimates say their work shortened the war by at least two years. A brilliant mathematician called Alan Turning was the head of the project that would result in Collussus. It was actually built by a telephone engineer called Tommy Flowers (Later to be Dr Thomas Flowers)..Turning though was the guy who (as the Americans say) 'Did the math'.
Collusus was the forerunner to how you're probably reading this; the computer.

Wow, two Bletchley references in two days. What are the odds?  The story of Alan Turing is wonderful reading, but don't forget the Polish cryptos who got the ball rolling, no pun intended!   The Nazis were done in by their own obsessive ways. The 4-rotor Enigma used by the Abwehr was complex and so prone to operator error (not sure, but this may have applied to the army 3-rotor as well), redundancy of transmission was made strict policy, which opened the door for the code breakers.  Establishing equivalence of two messages was the tiny thread that unraveled the whole thing.

Damn it, I'm thread-jacking again.  Apologies.

[FightTheFuture]

I think we`re pretty much out of the woods with regards to "Zimmerman riots".


As I predicted, a few scattered incidents (enough to make Drudge)  and that`s pretty much it.




On to the next news cycle.

[West of the Rockies]

Aint that the truth, FtF?  If it bleeds, it leads.