Zimmerman Riots?

[Jackpine Savage]

Ah yes, those halcion days when little Beaver Cleaver played hopscotch with his black suburban playmates, Ralph Cramden had a beer with his Black co-workers in the transit union, and Ricky Ricardo's band wasn't all white.


Folks of all colours could ride the bus together, hang out as friends and enjoy a Major League Baseball game, where all races where equally represented. 


Paradise lost.

The funny thing is, blacks are worse off now by almost every conceivable metric, but hey what's a decent paying job, larger share of national wealth, avg. net wealth north of zero, and a mom and a dad worth when you can have forced busing, baby mommas, doritos adds featuring photogenic multi-racial friends watching football, and a half-black prez?

[RealCool Daddio]

Such a perfectly fair characterization of my post. But I guess you're right: it's far better today since the Democrats became social engineers and showed they could do for culture exactly what they've done for government and the economy.

Oh give me a break, Sardondi.  Where did I drag the Democrats or the Republicans into this?  Don't be so facile as to make any discussion of the African American experience about simple party politics. 


I have no doubt that you are a compassionate man, and far from racially biased, but to suggest that there was ever a truly self sufficient and vibrant black middle class in America is ridiculous. Sure, there were times when some inroads were made, but the notion that the black experience in the 50's and 60's was one of prosperity is staggeringly off base.  What about segregation, the burning of Detroit in 67, or the horrific toll on urban men that the Vietnam War caused? The list is endless.


I believe I have read just about every post you have made on this site, and I dare say that you might be the keenest mind on Coastgab.  But good grief man, are you serious?

[Yorkshire pud]

We're getting the news of this on this side of the pond; interestingly they played the clip (which I hadn't seen before) of Obama making the point about the shot lad looking like himself. I thought it quite staggering really. If a politician this side had made comment in similar circumstances, I think there's every possibility that the defence would be not only be justified in putting forward a case they wouldn't receive a fair trial, but possibly have it (the prosecution) quashed too. That is (in my opinion) a gross travesty of justice and serves neither the victim the defendant or justice at all well. No-one wins.


That aside, they've shown a few groups with banners and the like, which although I couldn't read, I can guess what they say. The point was also made that Zimmerman is basically a marked man now.


Some mention has been made of the issues of Blacks/ breeding/ welfare etc... Sadly it isn't just an affliction restricted to any one colour or race. Not over here anyway.. You get Jeremy Kyle over there? Well, that nasty, bear prodding, shit (Not that I have any strong feelings about him) started his particular version of taunting the freak in the cage over here. YT has loads of clips of the specimens he's brought into the studio.
It starts with a lack of motivational support from the parents; but as those parents were of the single variety, and seldom older than 17, and also bereft of either education or parental support the thread goes back quite some way.. Simply saying to them 'get a job and education' is a bit like suggesting a battery hen should grow feathers and learn to fly, if all it's ever known is filth, cramped conditions and stifling heat.


To show it isn't just blacks, my ex wife, a general practitioner, went on a home visit to a family..the daughter (about 10) asked my ex how she became a doctor and what should she do if she wanted the same.  Truthfully, my ex told her she should learn hard at school, follow the sciences, particularly biology and chemistry, English and Maths. Four years later she did another visit to the same family..daughter had books spread all over the kitchen table, head down doing homework. Mother to my ex "Oh doctor, can you have a word with her please; she's so wrapped up in this school rubbish, tell her she should be out there enjoying life"


Or, the mother who brought her 17 year old into surgery to see if she could have a fertility test; Ex: "Why do you think she needs a fertility test?" ..."Well her older sister had her first at 15, I thought there was something wrong"


What hope for today's children when they have such a depth of support to draw on? Black/ White/ Hispanic/ martians; it makes no difference.. Lack of foundation a crumbling ruin makes.

[analog kid]

Man, you nailed it. You saw through the clever plan of conservatives here of not posting a single inflammatory comment, and you were able to somehow intercept the secret microwave messages from Right Wing Central which commanded, "Salivate for riots".

It's an old Alinskyian tactic to accuse the the right of what the left actually does. But seriously: doesn't it embarrass you?

I've read very little comments here about this subject, and wasn't referring to coastgab, but you're doing the same thing with "Left Wing Central." You even believe the POTUS tried to instigate a race riot to help get himself elected. Without a shred of evidence to bolster this paranoia. And if you believe the right-wing media hasn't been making political hay of this I have a bridge for sale.

[Juan]

As someone who lives close to Sanford, I saw how the case was politicized.  First came a political attack on Florida's stand-your-ground law.  There were immediate calls from protest groups and Democratic politicians at the state level to repeal this law. It is highly unpopular on the Democratic side of the aisle.  The Martin family was represented by a law firm with close ties to the Democratic party, and the public relations arm of that law firm promoted the idea of repealing the law.  When the defense made it clear that it was not a stand your ground case, the local PR fervor dwindled.

Only later did the national race hustlers and politicians get involved, and yes, that does include Obama's son comment.  What they hoped to gain I can't guess unless it was the further racial division of the country with the 2012 election in mind.

[PB the Deplorable]

This isn't the first time Obama interjected himself directly into a specific case with racial overtones.

We all should remember when he said the (white) cop 'acted stupidly' for investigating a report of someone breaking into a residence in an area that had had many recent break ins.  The person (a black Harvard professor) ended up being the resident who didn't have his keys, but instead of simply explaining that to the cop, he went ballistic and ended up having to be arrested for disorderly conduct.

As Obama was backpedaling, he sternly instructed us that this was a 'teaching moment'.  Yes it was, many people saw the real Obama for the first time that day.

[stevesh]

but to suggest that there was ever a truly self sufficient and vibrant black middle class in America is ridiculous.

Geographical bias maybe, but there was indeed a strong black middle class here in Michigan in the '50s and '60s and into the '70s. Most worked in the auto plants or for suppliers thereto, and they lived the same American Dream their white co-workers did.

The fact that middle-class blacks didn't show up on Leave It To Beaver doesn't mean they didn't exist. You know that was just a TV show, right? That was also the time when Ricky and Lucy, despite being married, slept in separate twin beds. Art doesn't always imitate life.

I don't pretend to know exactly what ruined the middle class in this state, other than the loss of auto manufacturing to overseas, but I have to think that Sardondi makes some good points about LBJ, etc.

[PB the Deplorable]

... if you believe the right-wing media hasn't been making political hay of this I have a bridge for sale.

What little I've listened to on talk radio has mostly been about the main stream media turning this into something more racial than it needed to be and about how they were misleading the public with the narrative they want us to accept.  And specific examples of the unfairness of the judge before and during the trial.

You may be interested to know Michael Savage thought he was guilty of murder.

[onan]

What little I've listened to on talk radio has mostly been about the main stream media turning this into something more racial than it needed to be and about how they were misleading the public with the narrative they want us to accept.  And specific examples of the unfairness of the judge before and during the trial.

You may be interested to know Michael Savage thought he was guilty of murder.

I am satisfied with the verdict. The system worked. I am even more happy that reasonable voices seem to have held the day. I noticed in California there was protesting but it seemed to be a small crowd of marchers. I don't know if there had been a larger crowd it would have turned violent.


And to add, I thought Zimmerman was guilty... I was wrong.

[Jackpine Savage]

Geographical bias maybe, but there was indeed a strong black middle class here in Michigan in the '50s and '60s and into the '70s. Most worked in the auto plants or for suppliers thereto, and they lived the same American Dream their white co-workers did.

The fact that middle-class blacks didn't show up on Leave It To Beaver doesn't mean they didn't exist. You know that was just a TV show, right? That was also the time when Ricky and Lucy, despite being married, slept in separate twin beds. Art doesn't always imitate life.

I don't pretend to know exactly what ruined the middle class in this state, other than the loss of auto manufacturing to overseas, but I have to think that Sardondi makes some good points about LBJ, etc.

Yeah, exactly. To think our goal for racial relations should be some kumbaya, hand holding, liberal, buy the world a coke bullshit is ridiculous. What's wrong with working and living our own lives, and if we choose to do so our own way, so be it. The Lib view of racial relations reminds me of a small child trying to have a wedding for their dog and cat. Sure it might be a cute idea, but it rarely works in real life like that.

[NowhereInTime]

Yeah, exactly. To think our goal for racial relations should be some kumbaya, hand holding, liberal, buy the world a coke bullshit is ridiculous. What's wrong with working and living our own lives, and if we choose to do so our own way, so be it. The Lib view of racial relations reminds me of a small child trying to have a wedding for their dog and cat. Sure it might be a cute idea, but it rarely works in real life like that.

The Con view of racial relations is Jim Crow and the scared old man screaming at people to get off his lawn.  Sure it might seem funny, but it's curmudgeonly and cynical.
I always thought Zimmerman would be acquitted.  There wasn't any hint of spite or ill-will in his actions and, with the state's stand your ground law, though not actually used in this defense, there is little way besides a prosecutor's lame ass "c'mon!" argument that would have prevailed here.  Contempt for the judge for the 11th hour manslaughter addition.

[Yorkshire pud]

A round up by the BBC of the US press. I think quite a few good/ useful points made, particularly about the actual way the trial was conducted/ manipulated.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23305076

For Andrew Cohen, writing in the Atlantic, the "startling" verdict is a "blunt reminder" of the limitations of the US justice system.

"Criminal trials are not searches for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. They never have been. Our rules of evidence and the Bill of Rights preclude it. Our trials are instead tests of only that limited evidence a judge declares fit to be shared with jurors, who in turn are then admonished daily, hourly even, not to look beyond the corners of what they've seen or heard in court.
"Trials like the one we've all just witnessed in Florida can therefore never fully answer the larger societal questions they pose. They can never act as moral surrogates to resolve the national debates they trigger."

Is the truth but nothing but the truth (or lack of) thing true?

[Yorkshire pud]

Views taken from US citizens..looks to be a wide ish cross section of states too.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23308691


Can someone please explain the 6 jury member protocol?

[forgottenpassword]

Great, the NAACP and Harry Reid are begging for the DOJ to get involved and charge Zimmerman with a civil rights crime.   I am sure the DOJ will get involved to satisfy their base but what will it prove? 

If the "leaders" of the black community are so concerned about protecting black kids then please go to the inner cities and protect the scores of black children that are murdered every day. Why doesn't this happen?  Is it because their lives are  not as important as Trayvons' or is it because there is no money or fame involved with those cases?

[West of the Rockies]

Well, what exactly do you suggest password?  How exactly are black leaders to go about entering the inner city and protecting kids?  I'm not trying to be rude here.  I think you're on to something.  We can't just treat the symptom.  But how, precisely, do we go about making meaningful change? 

Welfare is abused by some.  True.  It is absolutely essential for others.  So how do we make sure we are not creating a perpetual welfare state?  Do we increase funding to education?  Pretty clearly, a lot of people in this country now see teachers (evil unionists that they are) as the problem. 

Whether the perception is fair or not, earned or not, there are a lot of black people in this country who see the Zimmerman acquittal as a furthering of the status quo.  There are that many more people now who have lost hope because of that verdict.  (Just as there would have been a lot of people who would have decried a guilty verdict as a sign that our 2nd Amendment rights are in grave peril.)

We can't just slash education, slash welfare, and tell folks to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps", to "go get a job".  NOR can we continue to just dump money on the problem and talk about hope and change.

Meaningful solutions?  Aye, there's the rub....

[Sardondi]

Holder will order that Zimmerman be charged federally with something. It'll start with an "exploration" and then an investigation and ultimately some federal crime, which right now I can't see what in the world it would be. But if I were Zimmerman I wouldn't breathe easy: Holder is a racist, who has previously abused his authority to achieve results which protect and/or gratify blacks at the expense of justice to those of other races.

[Jackpine Savage]

We're getting the news of this on this side of the pond; interestingly they played the clip (which I hadn't seen before) of Obama making the point about the shot lad looking like himself. I thought it quite staggering really. If a politician this side had made comment in similar circumstances, I think there's every possibility that the defence would be not only be justified in putting forward a case they wouldn't receive a fair trial, but possibly have it (the prosecution) quashed too. That is (in my opinion) a gross travesty of justice and serves neither the victim the defendant or justice at all well. No-one wins.

Yep. The anti-zimmerman folks are the ones who made it all about race. The facts show the circumstances had nothing to do with race. Actually, the only proved racial animus was from trayvon when he referred to Zimmerman as "creepy ass cracker". They knew they would lose on the self-defense angle, so the Martins decided to commit to the racial angle. Hence the heretofore unheard of term "white hispanic".

[PB the Deplorable]

Yeah, exactly. To think our goal for racial relations should be some kumbaya, hand holding, liberal, buy the world a coke bullshit is ridiculous. What's wrong with working and living our own lives, and if we choose to do so our own way, so be it. The Lib view of racial relations reminds me of a small child trying to have a wedding for their dog and cat. Sure it might be a cute idea, but it rarely works in real life like that.

Where I live pretty much everyone gets along - at work, at school. between employees and customers, in our neighborhoods, at ball games and other events.  A lot of the kids don't get what the big deal about race even is. 

None of that applies to the inner city though, and high school is still high school sometimes when it comes to stupid stuff including looking for trouble..

[West of the Rockies]

Holder will order that Zimmerman be charged federally with something. It'll start with an "exploration" and then an investigation and ultimately some federal crime, which right now I can't see what in the world it would be. But if I were Zimmerman I wouldn't breathe easy: Holder is a racist, who has previously abused his authority to achieve results which protect and/or gratify blacks at the expense of justice to those of other races.

Your pretty big on predictions, Sardondi... when do you think what you describe will happen?  Will it be this week?  This month?

[PB the Deplorable]

... I noticed in California there was protesting but it seemed to be a small crowd of marchers. I don't know if there had been a larger crowd it would have turned violent...

From the AP.  Same old, same old.


http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_23657597/protesters-san-francisco-oakland-gather-denounce-zimmerman-verdict


OAKLAND -- No one was arrested during a march late Saturday night throughout downtown Oakland, in which about 100 people broke windows, vandalized cars and buildings with spray paint and started fires in the street in protest of George Zimmerman's acquittal hours earlier in a Florida courtroom.
 

The atmosphere was tense, with some marchers attempting to start fights and police dressed in riot gear in front of the police department headquarters, according to staff photographer Anda Chu. Footage from television helicopters showed protesters trashing a police squad car and a line of police blocking the protesters' path.


Occupy Oakland organized the gathering over Twitter at 10 p.m., encouraging protesters to wear hoodies, as Trayvon Martin did when he was shot to death by Zimmerman.
 

Some protesters held a banner declaring: "We Are All Trayvon Martin." Others spray-painted anti-police graffiti throughout Frank Ogawa Plaza, while a small contingent of officers looked on from afar.

The group began to march around 11 p.m. and some began breaking windows, including some on the Oakland Tribune downtown offices.
One BART police car was also vandalized with spray paint and its windows were smashed. Protesters also burned an American and a California state flag at a McDonald's restaurant on 14th and Jackson streets and spray painted Alameda County's Davidson courthouse.




'No arrests were made'.  I guess the taxpayers are supposed to pay for all this.  I wonder if anyone asked 'Occupy Oakland' what this case has to do with Oakland, the Oakland Tribune, the Oakland police, Alameda County, Bart...

[Juan]

Can someone please explain the 6 jury member protocol?

Back in the 60s, the Florida legislature changed the number of jurors from 12 to 6.  The U.S. Supreme Court upheld that number in Wiliams vs. Florida (399 US 78) 1970.  I don't remember the reason given for the change, but in the late 60s and early 70s there were numerous legal articles written supporting 6-member juries for saving time and money.

[Yorkshire pud]

Back in the 60s, the Florida legislature changed the number of jurors from 12 to 6.  The U.S. Supreme Court upheld that number in Wiliams vs. Florida (399 US 78) 1970.  I don't remember the reason given for the change, but in the late 60s and early 70s there were numerous legal articles written supporting 6-member juries for saving time and money.

Thanks for the info.  Crazy idea and even crazier reasons.

[ItsOver]

What The Hey???  Headline News is now playing "The Most Dramatic Moments of the George Zimmerman Trial."  What's next, "Best of the George Zimmerman Trial,".... "The George Zimmerman Trial... We Hardly Knew Ye???,"...."The George Zimmerman Trial... The Golden Years" ??


Will these shameless ghouls ever stop?

[Sardondi]

What The Hey???  Headline News is now playing "The Most Dramatic Moments of the George Zimmerman Trial."  What's next, "Best of the George Zimmerman Trial,".... "The George Zimmerman Trial... We Hardly Knew Ye???,"...."The George Zimmerman Trial... The Golden Years" ??


Will these shameless ghouls ever stop?

"Will there be a riot? Oh, there could be a riot? Blacks are so angry. Aren't you angry? Don't you want to riot?"

They won't be happy until they have whipped up an actual riot. I detest them.

[lonevoice]

We'll know soon enough if the Justice Dept intends to charge Zimmerman with a criminal civil rights violation.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH_JUSTICE_DEPT_?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-14-16-02-34

WASHINGTON     (AP) -- The Justice Department says it is looking into the shooting death of Trayvon Martin to determine whether federal prosecutors should file criminal civil rights charges now that George Zimmerman has been acquitted in the state case.

The department opened an investigation into Martin's death last year but stepped aside to allow the state prosecution to proceed.

In a statement Sunday, the Justice Department said the criminal section of the civil rights division, the FBI and the U.S. Attorney's office for the Middle District of Florida are continuing to evaluate the evidence generated during the federal probe, in addition to the evidence and testimony from the state trial.

The statement said that, in the government's words, "experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation."

[ItsOver]

"Will there be a riot? Oh, there could be a riot? Blacks are so angry. Aren't you angry? Don't you want to riot?"

They won't be happy until they have whipped up an actual riot. I detest them.

I'm almost surprised one of the major networks isn't sponsoring a riot somewhere.  "So come on down to our little get together at the town square.  We've got free hot dogs and popcorn, plus we'll be handing out bullhorns and pre-made protest signs.  Bring your friends and family.  Today... we're also being sponsored by Hal's Hyundai....." :

[Unquenchable Angst]

convenient, takes the public mind off Benghazi, Fast and Furious and the rest of the pustule rising up in the boil that is government and until the pus sucker newz vultures are drawn off to some other diversion from reporting worthy of the fourth estate.

[nooryisawesome]

We'll know soon enough if the Justice Dept intends to charge Zimmerman with a criminal civil rights violation.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH_JUSTICE_DEPT_?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-14-16-02-34

WASHINGTON     (AP) -- The Justice Department says it is looking into the shooting death of Trayvon Martin to determine whether federal prosecutors should file criminal civil rights charges now that George Zimmerman has been acquitted in the state case.

The department opened an investigation into Martin's death last year but stepped aside to allow the state prosecution to proceed.

In a statement Sunday, the Justice Department said the criminal section of the civil rights division, the FBI and the U.S. Attorney's office for the Middle District of Florida are continuing to evaluate the evidence generated during the federal probe, in addition to the evidence and testimony from the state trial.

The statement said that, in the government's words, "experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation."

So if you see someone who looks like other criminals in your neighborhood, its unlawful?

[Yorkshire pud]

So if you see someone who looks like other criminals in your neighborhood, its unlawful?

Couple of questions; why should seeing someone be unlawful? And what does a criminal look like?

[FightTheFuture]

Holder will order that Zimmerman be charged federally with something.

I hate to disagree with you, but there is absolutely zero chance of that happening. Oh, sure; they`ll give it a bit of lip service ("we`re looking into it") but as I predicted before, there will be no further LEGAL action taken against Mr. Zimmerman. There won`t even be a wrongful death suit. You heard THAT here first.