Zimmerman Riots?

[CampsieNP]

I read the essay A White Teacher in a Black High School.
If you doubt what the writer is saying has some basis in fact, do a search and read the recently disclosed, actual text messages from Mr. Trayvon Martin's cell phone.
I did. The language and content of those texts confirmed an awful lot of what the writer was saying in the essay.

[onan]

I have to disagree, because truth is incapable of being "racist": it either is or isn't true, that's all. And there are a lot of true events which make me long for punishment of the specific blacks who have perpetrated quite heinous acts; just as there are far more actual events committed by whites which make me yearn for the days of drawing and quartering. But as for calling an accurate rendition of a terrible events "racist", how can this be? Besides, tales which making one "more likely to hate" persons of a particular race who are not themselves personally responsible - I am speechless. I just don't know of anyone who thinks in those terms.

OK I went back and read the letter... and it has some truth... But it also has plenty of anecdotal "evidence" that feeds into some pretty simple racism.


I work with a staff of over 200 masters level and above professionals. About 40 percent are black and not a one of them acts in the manner suggested. But of course they must be a different type of black person. Several years ago I was ordering breakfast in East Liberty in Pittsburgh. A youngish black man stood up and said "what the fuck is whitey doing here". There is hatred anywhere you look. My son and daughter went to a high school that was at least 50 percent black. They both graduated without report of one class where dancing was the subject of the day. It is repugnant that I even have to write this.


Are there schools where the students are out of control? I suppose, but it isn't culturally systemic and to suggest that is racism.


The story of out of control youth has been served to us, from "To Sir With Love" and "The Cross and The Switchblade".

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

[onan]

I read the essay A White Teacher in a Black High School.
If you doubt what the writer is saying has some basis in fact, do a search and read the recently disclosed, actual text messages from Mr. Trayvon Martin's cell phone.
I did. The language and content of those texts confirmed an awful lot of what the writer was saying in the essay.

I read parts of Mein Kampf. I watched several reels of film about Hitler... Fuckin white people.

[Tray von Gutenberg]

Has anyone seen/read the "Essay by a White Teacher in a Black High School" that has been making it's way around the internets?

Just to be completely accurate, this article was first printed in a magazine entitled American Renaissance Vol. 20, No. 7, July, 2009.

You can read the original article here: http://www.amren.com/ar/2009/07/

Often, internet musings "making the rounds" are subject to editing or inaccuracies, so I thought I'd cite the original source. 

[PB the Deplorable]

... Are there schools where the students are out of control? I suppose, but it isn't culturally systemic and to suggest that is racism...

I'm curious.  What do you think our inner cities are like today?  Do you think things have seriously declined from, say, 1960, and if so, what do you think happened? 

[PB the Deplorable]

Back to the Zimmerman protests.

Saturday some of the good people in Oakland came out to have a peaceful rally to protest the verdict (it's understandable when people disagree on a divisive issue like this - the decent people don't always agree on everything).

So there they are, denouncing the verdict, listening to speeches, holding a candlelight vigil, calling for dialogue and healing, minding their own business.

Some of our friends from Occupy show up - not enough to infiltrate and start their usual riot - but enough to disrupt and shout down speakers (one of the favorite tactics of the Left) .  Peace and healing and human decency just isn't their thing.

The Occupy thugs are diseased.

[onan]

I'm curious.  What do you think our inner cities are like today?  Do you think things have seriously declined from, say, 1960, and if so, what do you think happened?

For the last 6 months I have worked with the mentally ill in the community. I work with people that are homeless to families that have a family member that has a mental illness. I see a small section of 12 to 18 year olds that are in school. I do this in Durham, NC which is about 45% white and 43% black. A little over 50% of students in public high school are black. Durham has a population including the outlying communities of about 350,000 people. There are seven high schools in Durham.


The 10 worst high schools by report... none of them in Durham. Of those 10, several are in small communities (under 25000 population).


Like I said I work in Durham. It has some rough spots. But nothing like some areas of Pittsburgh, Phoenix, or the "big" cities. But I do see a great deal of higher unemployment of blacks compared to whites. I also see blacks that fit the concept of this internet essay/email. I also see many more that do not.


And I have no doubt that there are high schools in crisis. I strongly believe that trying to solve this problem within the high school setting is wrong. High Schools are not designed to manage problem behaviors. That should fall to family and (although unpopular) the respective community, because sometimes it does take a village.

[Yorkshire pud]

And I have no doubt that there are high schools in crisis. I strongly believe that trying to solve this problem within the high school setting is wrong. High Schools are not designed to manage problem behaviors. That should fall to family and (although unpopular) the respective community, because sometimes it does take a village.

Wow..that's uncanny. There was a feature on the breakfast news this morning regarding perception and reality about teenage problems. We have a charitable telephone helpline that was set up several years ago called 'Childline'. It's there for children of any age to report abuse, social problems in their lives or pretty much anything in their lives that they're concerned about when they don't have anyone or anywhere to go to.


The biggest 'problem' reported by Childline is mental illness. I don't think children these days are allowed to be children. I think it shocking 6 years old's are given cell phones and are being encouraged by some parents to make decisions they're neither equipped for or able to rationalise. Children need rules, they deserve to have limits explained to them and enforced. They get to school and the government want high standards from everyone (because it means votes). If a kid gets to 11 and isn't Einsteins protege, he/ she is dismissed as a failure. To have that on them is cruel. No wonder that for some, their brains are fucked. 


The main 'problems' that parents perceive are things like 'stranger danger' (A phrase I find nauseating when 80% of child abuse happens within the family group), drugs, internet porn, gang membership, etc..mental illness is way down the list of worries for parents.  It doesn't suggest that parent's should be psychologists and know, but it does highlight the emphasis is skewed away from where to look at, and how to give young people a chance of reaching adulthood in a reasonably well rounded fashion.

[onan]

I have to disagree, because truth is incapable of being "racist": it either is or isn't true, that's all. And there are a lot of true events which make me long for punishment of the specific blacks who have perpetrated quite heinous acts; just as there are far more actual events committed by whites which make me yearn for the days of drawing and quartering. But as for calling an accurate rendition of a terrible events "racist", how can this be? Besides, tales which making one "more likely to hate" persons of a particular race who are not themselves personally responsible - I am speechless. I just don't know of anyone who thinks in those terms.

Truth may not have any racism but racists certainly use facts or more precisely partial truths and logistic fallacies to support their claims. And the letter we have been talking about does not paint a complete picture. Does it have legitimacy? Well, maybe, but I doubt it. Should an honest conversation take place? Yes and there has been, but unfortunately complexities don't translate to those that are sure they are right in the first place. That may well include you and me.

[Tinfoil Hat]

The playing up of this Zimmerman thing is really starting to get to me. Not only is it still being splashed all over CNN but now Yahoo News and the AP wire have jumped on the bandwagon. No one that knows me would call me right-wing, (Progressive with limited Libertarian sentiments is more like it) so if this media hype hasn't convinced me, then whatever the Trayvon Martin "cause" is has lost a good chunk of the left. I've spoken with many friends about this who cover a lot of the racial and political spectrum and we all agree that the jury has spoken, now everyone else needs to accept that and shut up.

[Sardondi]

OK I went back and read the letter... and it has some truth... But it also has plenty of anecdotal "evidence" that feeds into some pretty simple racism....

Just to be clear, I'm not speaking to the letter one way or the other. I haven't read it, I doubt I will. I haven't the slightest notion if it is true. I merely was commenting on your assertion that a reliable way to determine whether or not some story is "racist" is whether it tended to make one "hate" other members of a minority which presumably was the subject of the report. I was specifically addressing the situation of true accounts of actual events, since facts are incapable of being "racist". My head hurts.

[onan]

Just to be clear, I'm not speaking to the letter one way or the other. I haven't read it, I doubt I will. I haven't the slightest notion if it is true. I merely was commenting on your assertion that a reliable way to determine whether or not some story is "racist" is whether it tended to make one "hate" other members of a minority which presumably was the subject of the report. I was specifically addressing the situation of true accounts of actual events, since facts are incapable of being "racist". My head hurts.

I see your point. I agree in the specific. But I also disagree in the general. Yes, if a heinous crime is committed it is human nature to be angry. But if a story encompasses a large group and speaks of several behaviors (irritating or not) the purpose isn't to educate. The author of the letter wrote a great deal about the disruptive nature of a black student population. That doesn't mean, even if completely true, that all black students are disruptive. It actually speaks more to that specific school structure.


And my point, to clarify, is that if a story elicits anger towards a group of people instead of a specific person, it may well be racist in its meaning.

[FightTheFuture]

The playing up of this Zimmerman thing is really starting to get to me. Not only is it still being splashed all over CNN but now Yahoo News and the AP wire have jumped on the bandwagon.

Of course the media will cling to it, just as a child clings to his security blanket. It`s a proven winner, and why not squeeze every percentage point of ratings out of it you can?


Frankly, I`m plain sick and tired of hearing/watching "leaders of the black community" parade across the idiot box and fabricate/embellish  one fact after another as it relates to this trial. It`s blatant, racial demagoguery of the highest -- if not, most dangerous -- order.


Yet, many of these same "leaders of the black community" as well as their constituents, were the same ones loudly cheering when a Los Angeles jury returned a verdict of not-guilty in the O.J. Simpson trial circa 1995.  Strangely, despite the over-the-top reaction of our black neighbors, I can`t seem to recall a single act of violence or demonstration by the "sorry ass crackas", not to mention the Jewish community, as a result of that highly controversial verdict. Plenty of in-your-face celebrating; no riots or demonstrations -- just a shake of the head in disbelief and then on with life.


Sorry if my words strike an un-PC chord, but some things just need to be said.

[The Neverender]

having talked to several of my friends (and no dummies either, all with advanced degrees) it really comes down to what version of the facts of the case you "believe in."

If you know all the facts, you generally agree with the verdict, if you only know what has been broadcast by the MSM, you are disappointed with the verdict.


I tried to have a conversation this morning with a liberal friend about the cycle of poverty and violence in inner city communities, and how the culture there helps perpetuate the system... and I got cut off, and was told in the most pleasant way how that it was racist (she is sooo white you get snow blind if you look at her too long) to talk like that and to lump all black people together, and what about all the poor white people? and every other poor minority? I was trying to talk about one specific group and what could be done to help the problems... and I get shut down because suggesting that people in the inner city are poor, prone to gang violence, and receiving a bad education because of the shitty schools they are stuck with...

I just don't get it...

Someone to the left of me explain why I can't express concern about this issue


     

[onan]

having talked to several of my friends (and no dummies either, all with advanced degrees) it really comes down to what version of the facts of the case you "believe in."

If you know all the facts, you generally agree with the verdict, if you only know what has been broadcast by the MSM, you are disappointed with the verdict.


I tried to have a conversation this morning with a liberal friend about the cycle of poverty and violence in inner city communities, and how the culture there helps perpetuate the system... and I got cut off, and was told in the most pleasant way how that it was racist (she is sooo white you get snow blind if you look at her too long) to talk like that and to lump all black people together, and what about all the poor white people? and every other poor minority? I was trying to talk about one specific group and what could be done to help the problems... and I get shut down because suggesting that people in the inner city are poor, prone to gang violence, and receiving a bad education because of the shitty schools they are stuck with...

I just don't get it...

Someone to the left of me explain why I can't express concern about this issue


     

The long winded version. Many subjects are complicated. When someone believes they know more, or are more aware than, the one they are talking to, they are seldom open to challenging information. Often to the point of minimal aggression. Such as closed body posture, dismissive attitudes, and derision. It is a pretty common behavioral pattern for most, if not all of us.


So when one tries to explain something it can completely break down any attempt to communicate. Then compound that with the reaction from the one attempting to explain... it becomes a quagmire.


When mom and dad told you not to discuss religion or politics they were giving some of the best survival training a parent can give.


Sadly, there is little anyone can do to change another's belief system, unless that person believes that they are talking to one with a higher standing, usually the title of doctor, or expert.


Also they may have it right and you are wrong... I dunno I wasn't there and I am not saying you have it wrong... just explaining why people aren't willing to change their beliefs.


Whenever in a conversation where the other person starts to show signs of disagreement it is best to veer onto another topic, unless conflict is the goal. And many times that is the goal.


Lastly, needing to convince another they may have it wrong can be very frustrating.

[West of the Rockies]

And if I may offer my two cents worth, I certainly have encountered fellow liberals who are quite sure they have a lock on all that is good, true, and moral.  Both sides have such people.  Arguing with them is pointless.  Instead, seek people who actually have an open, functioning mind and who value critical thinking.

[Yorkshire pud]

Someone to the left of me explain why I can't express concern about this issue

It isn't a left or even a right thing..It's a didactic thing. take out 'race' or black' or white'..and insert 'Nibiru', or 'End of the world imminently' or 'The UK Royal family are really lizards', or 'US has martial law next week'..


It's the mindset that says "even if you broadly agree with me, but want to modify what I say, you're wrong"..The unkind might say it's narcissistic and closed minded..A lot will say they're just stupid and uneducated; and might have a point.

[Flaxen Hegemony]

having talked to several of my friends (and no dummies either, all with advanced degrees) it really comes down to what version of the facts of the case you "believe in."

If you know all the facts, you generally agree with the verdict, if you only know what has been broadcast by the MSM, you are disappointed with the verdict.


I tried to have a conversation this morning with a liberal friend about the cycle of poverty and violence in inner city communities, and how the culture there helps perpetuate the system... and I got cut off, and was told in the most pleasant way how that it was racist (she is sooo white you get snow blind if you look at her too long) to talk like that and to lump all black people together, and what about all the poor white people? and every other poor minority? I was trying to talk about one specific group and what could be done to help the problems... and I get shut down because suggesting that people in the inner city are poor, prone to gang violence, and receiving a bad education because of the shitty schools they are stuck with...

I just don't get it...

Someone to the left of me explain why I can't express concern about this issue


     

Just to pull a very small thread in your post, Neverender, I see what you are trying to say, but advanced degrees sometimes don't mean a God damn thing.  We had one student in my program who was in way over his head, and lacked any work ethic.  The last straw was that he didn't give a shit, and said so to everyone.  He was an embarrassment to the program.

You probably see where I'm going with this, and can predict what happened to him.  He was given his PhD immediately, before the rest of us [1], no questions asked.  His dissertation read like it was written by a preschooler, but no one read it.  I suspect that he didn't even read it.  They wanted him out so he wasn't ever again associated with the program, even removing his name from the online alumni list (which I thought was a dick move, even if he was a terrible student - if you gave him the degree, deserved or not, you should formally acknowledge it.  I don't think you can have it both ways.)

[1]   I probably received mine two months later because they had to add my specialization in whoredom to the Phd certificate.

[Flaxen Hegemony]

 

The long winded version. Many subjects are complicated. When someone believes they know more, or are more aware than, the one they are talking to, they are seldom open to challenging information. Often to the point of minimal aggression. Such as closed body posture, dismissive attitudes, and derision. It is a pretty common behavioral pattern for most, if not all of us.


So when one tries to explain something it can completely break down any attempt to communicate. Then compound that with the reaction from the one attempting to explain... it becomes a quagmire.


When mom and dad told you not to discuss religion or politics they were giving some of the best survival training a parent can give.


Sadly, there is little anyone can do to change another's belief system, unless that person believes that they are talking to one with a higher standing, usually the title of doctor, or expert.


Also they may have it right and you are wrong... I dunno I wasn't there and I am not saying you have it wrong... just explaining why people aren't willing to change their beliefs.


Whenever in a conversation where the other person starts to show signs of disagreement it is best to veer onto another topic, unless conflict is the goal. And many times that is the goal.


Lastly, needing to convince another they may have it wrong can be very frustrating.

^^ THIS. ^^  A thousand times this.  Onan's list of comments should be required reading before entering any online argument.  For every reason he listed, I tend to avoid political threads, and would rather steer them off course by talking about fucking. 

[The Neverender]

 
^^ THIS. ^^  A thousand times this.  Onan's list of comments should be required reading before entering any online argument.  For every reason he listed, I tend to avoid political threads, and would rather steer them off course by talking about fucking. 

without prying tooo much... PHD in whoredom? and the above comment... what was your PHD in??? haha

[Mind Flayer Monk]

I just don't get it...

Someone to the left of me explain why I can't express concern about this issue
[size=78%]     [/size]

If you were concerned about the issue, you should have said you were concerned.


THEM: ...racist...lumping...
YOU: I disagree that I am racist, but I am concerned about this issue. I think its serious and it means something to me. I feel that (every American deserves a chance/we are all in this together/its a waste of...).


Showing you care and are concerned is the best solution in many situations. (Which is why Noory is so terrible...he does not care and is not concerned.)

[Sardondi]

Zimmerman emerges from hiding out from countless death threats to rescue family trapped under overturned vehicle. http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue/story?id=19735432#.Ue1m38XSi9U.twitter

[Juan]

The damned news media.  There's no mention of the race of the people in the SUV.  I thought we were having a conversation about race and that race was the most important thing of all.

[Yorkshire pud]

The damned news media.  There's no mention of the race of the people in the SUV.  I thought we were having a conversation about race and that race was the most important thing of all.

Obviously they're white; because why else would he run a mile from his home to rescue/assist a black family in an overturned vehicle? Even I know that! 

[Marc.Knight]

The damned news media.  There's no mention of the race of the people in the SUV.  I thought we were having a conversation about race and that race was the most important thing of all.

I think the media, as an entity, receive too much serious attention.  The national media provides a tiny pin-hole on reality, and even that is often construed and purposely filtered beyond recognition.  It is frustrating to watch people in other countries make judgments about the USA and the people of the USA by watching the media via TV and even Internet.  Most of what is presented bears little resemblance to normal everyday life.  The half-truths, distortions, augmentations, however, provide ready-made food for political extremists here, and abroad. 


The Zimmerman experience is just one example.  During his trial perhaps hundreds of people were shot in the USA under strange circumstances, with a number of races involved (we're a continental country, a lot of stuff is always going to happen).  This we never hear about. 


For example - Lakeland, Florida has experienced 5 drive-by shootings in 8 days recently, all in predominantly African-American neighborhoods, and all related to drugs.  Do we hear anything from African-American leadership or others as condemnation of the drive-by shootings?  No.  It is more stimulating to add fuel to a race conflict involving a black youth, and, to the consternation of national media, a "White" Hispanic. 


The media routinely draws us in, hypnotically, to focus on the dirty navel of one isolated situation, while hundreds of more important things go by unnoticed.

[Sardondi]

Obviously they're white; because why else would he run a mile from his home to rescue/assist a black family in an overturned vehicle? Even I know that! 

Yeah, those "White Hispanics" are like that.

BTW, should we put any money on whether the NYT had ever used such a ridiculous racial classification ("White Hispanic") with regards to anyone else? Or does anyone want to take any bets that it was a race-of-convenience cooked up by the Times to try to do its bit to polarize the story? Actually, antebellum Louisiana and Mississippi, IIRC, had this all worked out, and would have officially classified Zimmerman, who was 1/8 black, as "octoroon", and thus prohibited from enjoying many of the rights and privileges afforded white citizens, and confusingly, even "White Hispanic" citizens of those states.

150 years later and a supposed liberal bastion like the NYT is still using the repugnant racial calculus of the slaveholders to determine what rights a man has.

[Yorkshire pud]

Yeah, those "White Hispanics" are like that.

BTW, should we put any money on whether the NYT had ever used such a ridiculous racial classification ("White Hispanic") with regards to anyone else? Or does anyone want to take any bets that it was a race-of-convenience cooked up by the Times to try to do its bit to polarize the story? Actually, antebellum Louisiana and Mississippi, IIRC, had this all worked out, and would have officially classified Zimmerman, who was 1/8 black, as "octoroon", and thus prohibited from enjoying many of the rights and privileges afforded white citizens, and confusingly, even "White Hispanic" citizens of those states.

150 years later and a supposed liberal bastion like the NYT is still using the repugnant racial calculus of the slaveholders to determine what rights a man has.

I wonder how the NYT would 'classify' Cubans?  I was fortunate to go in 2005 for two weeks holiday..and was astonished at the melting pot that it is..I didn't know that 11% are Chinese origin..The Spanish influence is well known (I think about 55%), but the collection from other continents is amazing.. To see facial features of a black African but white skin, and ginger hair, is something else! And the opposite..Caucasian facial features with black skin and black hair. A lot of the women were absolutely beautiful to..Curves in all the right places!
It's probably similar in other Caribbean islands too.

[Juan]

  I was fortunate to go in 2005 for two weeks holiday

So you're one of those bastards who puts money into the pockets of the castro brothers and continues the enslavement of the Cuban people.

[PB the Deplorable]

OK I went back and read the letter... and it has some truth... But it also has plenty of anecdotal "evidence" that feeds into some pretty simple racism.


I work with a staff of over 200 masters level and above professionals. About 40 percent are black and not a one of them acts in the manner suggested. But of course they must be a different type of black person...

Anyone that doesn't live in or near one of our fine inner city hell holes, and hasn't for the past 10-12 years really has no idea how much they've declined, and what goes on there.  Of course not everyone in our inner cities - or even in the worst of neighborhoods there - fit a set of descriptions, but far too many do.

Someone like this letter writer should be given the benefit of the doubt for even going there to try to make a positive contribution in the first place.

Yes, someone that doesn't live there or perpetuate it is of a different sub-culture.  I doubt very much if there are any PhDs out committing drive-bys because someone is wearing the wrong color, and all the rest of it.

[PB the Deplorable]

I think the media, as an entity, receive too much serious attention.  The national media provides a tiny pin-hole on reality, and even that is often construed and purposely filtered beyond recognition.  It is frustrating to watch people in other countries make judgments about the USA and the people of the USA by watching the media via TV and even Internet.  Most of what is presented bears little resemblance to normal everyday life.  The half-truths, distortions, augmentations, however, provide ready-made food for political extremists here, and abroad. 


The Zimmerman experience is just one example.  During his trial perhaps hundreds of people were shot in the USA under strange circumstances, with a number of races involved (we're a continental country, a lot of stuff is always going to happen).  This we never hear about. 


For example - Lakeland, Florida has experienced 5 drive-by shootings in 8 days recently, all in predominantly African-American neighborhoods, and all related to drugs.  Do we hear anything from African-American leadership or others as condemnation of the drive-by shootings?  No.  It is more stimulating to add fuel to a race conflict involving a black youth, and, to the consternation of national media, a "White" Hispanic. 


The media routinely draws us in, hypnotically, to focus on the dirty navel of one isolated situation, while hundreds of more important things go by unnoticed.

Yeah, those "White Hispanics" are like that.

BTW, should we put any money on whether the NYT had ever used such a ridiculous racial classification ("White Hispanic") with regards to anyone else? Or does anyone want to take any bets that it was a race-of-convenience cooked up by the Times to try to do its bit to polarize the story? Actually, antebellum Louisiana and Mississippi, IIRC, had this all worked out, and would have officially classified Zimmerman, who was 1/8 black, as "octoroon", and thus prohibited from enjoying many of the rights and privileges afforded white citizens, and confusingly, even "White Hispanic" citizens of those states.

150 years later and a supposed liberal bastion like the NYT is still using the repugnant racial calculus of the slaveholders to determine what rights a man has.

Big Media is the propaganda arm of the 'Progressives'.  Both are wholly owned subsidiaries of the Democrat Party.  For the most part the Main stream Media have junked their role as government watchdogs with distain, and are now full blown advocates - they pretend to be journalists in order to lend an air of accuracy and impartiality to their 'reporting'.

... As for the photos, I thought the first one had been discredited as a plant and not an actual Romney supporter.

What do you expect from people that will do anything - no lie, smear, or dirty trick is too low - to win elections.  And who know they can't without playing racial politics.