President Donald J. Trump

[starrmtn001]

heh heh

OMG!  What took me so long to think of it?  Of course.  It makes perfect sense!!!

WRITE IN VOTE, FOR MV!!!

[starrmtn001]

LOL.    I think I may want to do that anyway.  I'll join you.  Later, star.

Cool!  I got the dubious, you can bring the munchy food.

[Value Of Pi]

Too much spin. Putin achieved his objective, he's occupying the Crimea and no one has thus far forced his hand. It doesn't appear that anyone will, nor do I see Ukraine joining NATO or especially the EU any time soon. The sanctions have proven ineffective, so much so that Putin was able to project Russian military power into Syria.

About half of those priorities are at direct odds with each other. The only objective we had in Syria was trying to overthrow Assad by taking advantage of a popular movement. That hasn't happened, we simply got mired in a giant civil war where the very worst possible faction started winning. It's a huge blunder that Russia seems willing to fix at the cost of keeping Assad in power. We should allow that. The sensible policy would have been to keep Assad in power in the first place, it would have killed a lot less people, cost less, would have maintained stability, and there would be no refugee crisis.

Syria was a Russian ally before the war. We failed at making Syria an ally of the US through arming rebel groups. Now that Russia is directly involved, the answer is not shooting down Russian aircraft that violate a no-fly zone. WWIII does not need to start over Syria.

First you say, "he's occupying it," indicating Ukraine the country, not a small portion of it. Now you say he's occupying Crimea and he's achieved his objective. Who's spinning here and recalibrating their position, you or me?

All your arguments, every single one, are repeated constantly on RT and other Russian propaganda instruments -- we won, we're doing great, we didn't need the Mistrals, the economy is fine, blah, blah.

Oh, another factual point: Ukraine signed an EU Association Agreement, along with other former Soviet block countries, and is on track to fully join the EU by 2020.

[The King of Kings]

He should have learned his lesson from the other candidates. Everyone that attacked Trump dropped in the polls as a result. Rubio was hoping for media face time after the debate by continuing to attack Trump, but Trump derailed that by keeping the media's attention by unveiling Christie's endorsement.

Not only that, but Trump is a protest candidate.  He is there to play scorched earth politics, cheered on by voters.  People aren't upset with Trump, they are upset with what they feel is the ineffectual leadership of Washington Politics which Rubio is a part of.

When Rubio deviates from his message to start an impromptu "Friars Club Roast of Donald J. Trump", it looks foolish coming from Marco Rubio as most people perceive him as a serious candidate.

If I was Rubio supporter or on the fence of who to vote for, having Rubio debase himself by lowering himself to Trump's level would be alarming.  I am not saying Rubio is better than that, it's just a miscalculation of the feelings of the voters.

It's like Marco picking to play the Sniper in an online FPS running into buildings in close quarters while Trump picked the Flamethrower.  Marco is going to lose that encounter 9/10.

Marco needs to play to his strengths and his strength isn't cracking Trump jokes.

[FearBoysWithBugs]

Typical pinhead post

[albrecht]

I wonder what happened to Juan Campos? I can't seem to find any follow-up. Supposedly he fell asleep, whilst drunk, and caused the accident and claimed he was an American citizen but the Consulate had refused comment (according to articles at the time.) A quick search only comes up with the shocking photos and old news stories. Did he get convicted? Pay off the Mexican cops and flee? Was he a US citizen or not? In prison or not?

[starrmtn001]

I wonder what happened to Juan Campos? I can't seem to find any follow-up. Supposedly he fell asleep, whilst drunk, and caused the accident and claimed he was an American citizen but the Consulate had refused comment (according to articles at the time.) A quick search only comes up with the shocking photos and old news stories. Did he get convicted? Pay off the Mexican cops and flee? Was he a US citizen or not? In prison or not?

This is just tragic.  What a horrible thing for the riders and their families to go through.

[albrecht]

This is just tragic.  What a horrible thing for the riders and their families to go through.

And, due to internet, an awful wreck turned into a "joke" meme. I still wonder what happened to him and hopefully got justice. Mexican prisons aren't nice but, unfortunately, if you have some money you can get out.

[starrmtn001]

And, due to internet, an awful wreck turned into a "joke" meme. I still wonder what happened to him and hopefully got justice. Mexican prisons aren't nice but, unfortunately, if you have some money you can get out.

I do not find it funny.  It is very sad.

[SciFiAuthor]

Not only that, but Trump is a protest candidate.  He is there to play scorched earth politics, cheered on by voters.  People aren't upset with Trump, they are upset with what they feel is the ineffectual leadership of Washington Politics which Rubio is a part of.

When Rubio deviates from his message to start an impromptu "Friars Club Roast of Donald J. Trump", it looks foolish coming from Marco Rubio as most people perceive him as a serious candidate.

If I was Rubio supporter or on the fence of who to vote for, having Rubio debase himself by lowering himself to Trump's level would be alarming.  I am not saying Rubio is better than that, it's just a miscalculation of the feelings of the voters.

It's like Marco picking to play the Sniper in an online FPS running into buildings in close quarters while Trump picked the Flamethrower.  Marco is going to lose that encounter 9/10.

Marco needs to play to his strengths and his strength isn't cracking Trump jokes.

I hate to agree with you, but yes, you're absolutely spot on.

[SciFiAuthor]

First you say, "he's occupying it," indicating Ukraine the country, not a small portion of it. Now you say he's occupying Crimea and he's achieved his objective. Who's spinning here and recalibrating their position, you or me?

My position is that Putin outmaneuvered the Obama administration and achieved his objectives with only moderate repercussions. Now it's too late to do anything about it unless you want a war, which no one does, or you cut a deal with Putin.

All your arguments, every single one, are repeated constantly on RT and other Russian propaganda instruments -- we won, we're doing great, we didn't need the Mistrals, the economy is fine, blah, blah.

That's my job as a Russian agent here to subvert Bellgab. Look, I deal in realities. The reality is that Putin is dominating world affairs and doing basically whatever he wants. Obama is a laughing stock. You want to do something about Ukraine, talk to him, but you won't get much. The incoming president is going to have to negotiate Putin out of Ukraine, and probably have to give him the Crimea to get him out, and that is a reality. I don't like the guy, I disagree wholeheartedly with expansionism, I don't like his oligarchical hold on Russia, but reality is reality.

Oh, another factual point: Ukraine signed an EU Association Agreement, along with other former Soviet block countries, and is on track to fully join the EU by 2020.

There may be no EU by 2020, much less a desire to gain Ukraine at the cost of upsetting European stability any more than it already is by annoying the Russians.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

I don't doubt his sincerity. Joe Lieberman was another Democrat like that.

If you mean this guy, "sincerity" and his name have never been mentioned in a sentence that didn't describe his lack of it.  He's also old pals with McCain who, along with Ted Cruz, thought he would make a dandy Secretary of Defense not too many months ago. You probably could feed everyone else who agrees with them with two extra-large deep dish pizzas.

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/225656-mccain-wants-lieberman-for-defense-secretary

[WOTR]

Tax the Fat Cats...

It remains to be seen.  I find it interesting that people are willing to believe that a billionaire whose mantra is "greed is good" will be the one to tax the "fat cats."  Somehow I don't know that I trust a man who has used every tax loop hole in the books (and likely invented a few) to close them.

It could be that he will- but I still think that he will be the next big disappointment for many if he gets in (and I'm referring to those who support him and not those who already hate him...)

[Jackstar]

Listening to David Icke the other day, he said "a man with billions of dollars cannot truly be said to be an outsider to the system."

He is correct. A Trump/Clinton race will be as meaningful as the Bush/Kerry conflict was--quasi-criminal either way.

[GravitySucks]

It remains to be seen.  I find it interesting that people are willing to believe that a billionaire whose mantra is "greed is good" will be the one to tax the "fat cats."  Somehow I don't know that I trust a man who has used every tax loop hole in the books (and likely invented a few) to close them.

It could be that he will- but I still think that he will be the next big disappointment for many if he gets in (and I'm referring to those who support him and not those who already hate him...)

The US deficit in 2015 was $439 BILLION.  There are 536 billionaires in the US. If you taxed each one of them an extra $500 million dollars, we would still not have a balanced budget. You can't just tax the rich. Everyone needs to tighten their belt, and curtail the spending.

45% of Americans pay no income tax, and half of them get money from the government.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2016-02-24

That is 77.5 million people.

You do the math... The only way to get out of this whole financial mess is to reduce the size of the federal government, find other ways to cut spending, balance the budget, and start actually paying down the national debt.

The debt, today, is over $19 TRILLION.  That is obscene. On the day Obama took office, the debt was $10.6 Trillion. He will have doubled the debt by the end of his term. He didn't do it alone. Congress passed the appropriations. This, to me, is criminal.

Watch how fast the debt goes up by viewing the numbers at this website: http://www.usdebtclock.org

[WOTR]

There are 536 billionaires in the US. If you taxed each one of them an extra $500 million dollars, we would still not have a balanced budget. You can't just tax the rich.

You will get no argument from me on that. I am not a "tax the rich and reduce everybody else's taxes" kind of guy.  However, I am somebody who believes that loop holes do need to be addressed...

There are a lot of people who think that Trump is somehow going to go after the "fat cats" when I would say he may actually reduce their tax burden stating that their investment is necessary to get jobs back to America and "make America great again."  I am not even arguing if that is or is not true- simply saying that a lot of people are going to have a rude awaking when they compare their expectations to reality if he gets in...

[FearBoysWithBugs]

On the day Obama took office, the debt was $10.6 Trillion. He will have doubled the debt by the end of his term.

You know, what is especially telling is how he managed to fuck things up like that coming into office after Clinton, who balanced the budget for the first time in a jillion years.  How did Obama manage to fuck things up so spectacularly?  Usually you would need the banking system to collapse under your predecessor for something like that.

Thanks, Obama 

[Value Of Pi]

My position is that Putin outmaneuvered the Obama administration and achieved his objectives with only moderate repercussions. Now it's too late to do anything about it unless you want a war, which no one does, or you cut a deal with Putin.

That's my job as a Russian agent here to subvert Bellgab. Look, I deal in realities. The reality is that Putin is dominating world affairs and doing basically whatever he wants. Obama is a laughing stock. You want to do something about Ukraine, talk to him, but you won't get much. The incoming president is going to have to negotiate Putin out of Ukraine, and probably have to give him the Crimea to get him out, and that is a reality. I don't like the guy, I disagree wholeheartedly with expansionism, I don't like his oligarchical hold on Russia, but reality is reality.

There may be no EU by 2020, much less a desire to gain Ukraine at the cost of upsetting European stability any more than it already is by annoying the Russians.

Okay, well my position is that you feel the need to move the goalposts in order to make Putin look good and Obama look bad. Why, I don't know unless you hate Obama that much. (You're not a Russian agent.) Neither really needs your help, unfortunately, if you take a look globally.

But, in the case of Crimea and Ukraine generally, Putin miscalculated and Obama did enough to let Putin fall on his face. The Russian military already occupied and controlled Crimea, before the invasion. They basically gave it their official stamp, although nobody else of note recognizes it. Putin failed with his counterrevolution in Kiev and the chocolate candies guy is still running the show in Ukraine. The Russians can't do much more than parade around on the border, kill people, fire artillery and shoot down civilian airliners. Meanwhile, their economy and prestige (ha, ha on that one) are paying the price.

You can assert what you want, but Putin screwed up on Ukraine. He gets the prize, not Obama. If you want to take a shot at Obama, all you have to do is move south on the map to the Middle East. There, he handed Putin an engraved invitation and Putin said "Da!"

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

Okay, well my position is that you feel the need to move the goalposts in order to make Putin look good and Obama look bad. Why, I don't know unless you hate Obama that much. (You're not a Russian agent.) Neither really needs your help, unfortunately, if you take a look globally.

But, in the case of Crimea and Ukraine generally, Putin miscalculated and Obama did enough to let Putin fall on his face. The Russian military already occupied and controlled Crimea, before the invasion. They basically gave it their official stamp, although nobody else of note recognizes it. Putin failed with his counterrevolution in Kiev and the chocolate candies guy is still running the show in Ukraine. The Russians can't do much more than parade around on the border, kill people, fire artillery and shoot down civilian airliners. Meanwhile, their economy and prestige (ha, ha on that one) are paying the price.

You can assert what you want, but Putin screwed up on Ukraine. He gets the prize, not Obama. If you want to take a shot at Obama, all you have to do is move south on the map to the Middle East. There, he handed Putin an engraved invitation and Putin said "Da!"

With profuse apologies to Trey Parker and Matt Stone--

"What would Joe Lieberman do, if he was VP right now?
"He'd make the best possible plan for himself and follow through,
"That's what Joe Lieberman would do."

[Jackstar]

Okay, well my position is that you feel the need to move the goalposts in order to make Putin look good and Obama look bad. Why, I don't know

https://youtu.be/CL_GShyGv3o

[pate]

Whoa.  Dude, where's my car?  Polemics thread?  Really, Top-right Soldier?  Thank the bejeezus all I found was a minor clerical (re: character class Dudgeon & Dagons) detail to get upset about:

... great, we didn't need the Mistrals, the economy is fine, blah, blah...

FTFY, VOP!

-----

Off-topic thread de-railment question:  Has anyone wrapped their heads around the Trump suits in Doppelkopf?

ediot: if there is one thing Polemics doesn't need it is moderation.  Praise MV!

[Value Of Pi]

Whoa.  Dude, where's my car?  Polemics thread?  Really, Top-right Soldier?  Thank the bejeezus all I found was a minor clerical (re: character class Dudgeon & Dagons) detail to get upset about:

FTFY, VOP!

-----

Off-topic thread de-railment question:  Has anyone wrapped their heads around the Trump suits in Doppelkopf?

ediot: if there is one thing Polemics doesn't need it is moderation.  Praise MV!

This is a Mistral-class ship, like the two Putin didn't get from France. What's the confusion and where are the polemics? This is a politics thread, no?

[WhiteCrow]

It remains to be seen.  I find it interesting that people are willing to believe that a billionaire whose mantra is "greed is good" will be the one to tax the "fat cats."  Somehow I don't know that I trust a man who has used every tax loop hole in the books (and likely invented a few) to close them.

It could be that he will- but I still think that he will be the next big disappointment for many if he gets in (and I'm referring to those who support him and not those who already hate him...)

And like duh ..Fat cats usually provide jobs. Like how about all those Payrol taxes the employees pay. The Fat Cats pay the gross wages. Gettin' it now, the Fat Cats pay those taxes. too. 

[pate]

This is a Mistral-class ship, like the two Putin didn't get from France. What's the confusion and where are the polemics? This is a politics thread, no?

If I were the leader of the People's Free Democratic Republic, or Russian Federation.  I'd get a cooler yacht than an aircraft-carrier, perhaps I drank too much vodka-laced Russian Kool-Aid?

Those things have a draft that cannot approach cool bikini-clad atols...

Polemics=Politics, in my twisted Midwestern-Cajun vernacular, btw.

I just stumbled in hear by following some obscure directions, I thought I was taking a top-RIGHT, my bad...

Carry On, VOP!

ediot-to-add: I shall commit to due diligence, since I stumbled in hear...  French Mistral-class carriers are like the old US "pocket-carriers" of WWII(?) extraction?  If the Russian Federation has two of those in the Med, things could get interesting, I suppose.  I shall think on this drunkenly a bit, and drunkenly research as well.  Two pocket carriers surely Trump the three-to-five Megas in the US inventory.  I do love Polemics...

[WOTR]

And like duh ..Fat cats usually provide jobs. Like how about all those Payrol taxes the employees pay. The Fat Cats pay the gross wages. Gettin' it now, the Fat Cats pay those taxes. too.

Thanks for the economics lesson, Mr. Von Mises.

[pate]

If wiki can be trusted, Egypt has those two carriers...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistral-class_amphibious_assault_ship

Still working on whether or not they are roughly analogous to the "pocket-carriers" of WWII...  in terms of force projection, &c.

Stand By, VOP!

ediot: Ima dumbass, I apparently got the concept of "light/escort carrier" & "pocket battleship" mixed up in my Beam-Me-Yup.  'pologies.

As You Were.

[Value Of Pi]

If I were the leader of the People's Free Democratic Republic, or Russian Federation.  I'd get a cooler yacht than an aircraft-carrier, perhaps I drank too much vodka-laced Russian Kool-Aid?

Those things have a draft that cannot approach cool bikini-clad atols...

Polemics=Politics, in my twisted Midwestern-Cajun vernacular, btw.

I just stumbled in hear by following some obscure directions, I thought I was taking a top-RIGHT, my bad...

Carry On, VOP!

ediot-to-add: I shall commit to due diligence, since I stumbled in hear...  French Mistral-class carriers are like the old US "pocket-carriers" of WWII(?) extraction?  If the Russian Federation has two of those in the Med, things could get interesting, I suppose.  I shall think on this drunkenly a bit, and drunkenly research as well.  Two pocket carriers surely Trump the three-to-five Megas in the US inventory.  I do love Polemics...

The Mistrals (amphibious assault ships) are much more versatile than those smaller WWII-vintage escort carriers the Navy had. They not only launch aircraft but also project land forces -- tanks, APCs, hundreds or thousands of troops. The Russians have this capability already but to a very limited extent.

The Mistral is a very formidable ship, the latest and maybe greatest in this category, and ironically at least one of them would probably have been based in Crimea for possible use against Ukraine.


EDIT:
Yes, France wound up selling them to Egypt instead of Russia. Those are the two Mistrals I was talking about.

[pate]

All good, Brother P!

I learned something I didn't know already today, and the sun's not even up.

Can I get a harrumph?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN99jshaQbY

[Value Of Pi]

All good, Brother P!

I learned something I didn't know already today, and the sun's not even up.

Can I get a harrumph?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN99jshaQbY

You get a harrumph. You don't get a Mistral. (Way, way too expensive to be giving out on BellGab.) So says Hedley Lamarr.

[WOTR]

You get a harrumph. You don't get a Mistral. (Way, way too expensive to be giving out on BellGab.) So says Hedley Lamarr.

No doubt it is too expensive.  Here on Bellgab, we give away the Victoria class submarines.  It seems fitting that the prize here is a vessel that catches fire, kills crewmen, leaks and cannot dive...