Midnight In The Desert

[Scully]

We don't agree, but we're not arguing. Maybe unusual for this place, but not a bad thing.

Now there ya go, VofP.  See there IS hope for this forum. You've renewed my faith. 

Believe me, I prefer Art's humor to that of most people's, but if I have learned nothing else here, it's that people vary wildly on what they think is funny ... plus I'm also trying to adapt myself to the sad fact that we no longer have the probability of hearing his in the future. 

[FightTheFuture]

Now there ya go, VofP.  See there IS hope for this forum. You've renewed my faith. 

Believe me, I prefer Art's humor to that of most people's, but if I have learned nothing else here, it's that people vary wildly on what they think is funny ... plus I'm also trying to adapt myself to the sad fact that we no longer have the probability of hearing his in the future. 

I don`t know, Scully, I am one who thinks Art will be back. He loves radio. He`ll find a way to get back on the air. And, I suspect sooner than later.

[SredniVashtar]

I don`t know, Scully, I am one who thinks Art will be back. He loves radio. He`ll find a way to get back on the air. And, I suspect sooner than later.

He might love radio, but I don't think he loves all the hassle that goes along with it. After some time has passed he starts feeling itchy again and forgets what a pain he found it all, but when he gets back on air all the doubts start returning and he is ready to jack it in again. He must have been doing the new show barely a month before he started mentioning how it was cutting into time with his family, as though that had never occurred to him before. He really loves radio when he's not actually doing it - when he gets back on air it all starts to seem too much like a job again and he starts to remember all those other things that he would rather be doing.

When you hear people in sport talk about why they are retiring, they usually say that they still love the game, but they don't like doing the training any more. In most cases, they are probably still up to the job, but they don't love it enough to put in all the effort that they used to do so they don't make the same impact any more. It's the same with Art - he's lost a step, but he's not willing to work as  hard as he did when he first started the show to get it back to where it used to be. Fair enough, the guy has been there and done it, but I wished he had been a little more honest with himself and others this time around, and understood his limitations.

[Roswells, Art]

I am grateful just to have one more Art show to listen to much less the 90 or so new shows he did. I would have payed hundreds of dollars to have heard him 90 more times. Luckily I didn't have to pay that much.

[onan]

Perhaps, I am in a very small crowd. At this point, I would rather listen and watch Heather grow into radio/podcast interviewer/talk host.

I have argued that paranormal was still a vibrant topic. I don't think so anymore. For me, to keep it interesting means much more science and that puts many people to sleep (sometimes me too). I can't get a handle on whether it is my disappointment in this last iteration or that Art didn't interest me with his last airings like he had previously. And I did really like Art, even on Sirius.

[SredniVashtar]

Perhaps, I am in a very small crowd. At this point, I would rather listen and watch Heather grow into radio/podcast interviewer/talk host.

I have argued that paranormal was still a vibrant topic. I don't think so anymore. For me, to keep it interesting means much more science and that puts many people to sleep (sometimes me too). I can't get a handle on whether it is my disappointment in this last iteration or that Art didn't interest me with his last airings like he had previously. And I did really like Art, even on Sirius.

It would probably be better if it was presented as her own show, and given on its own terms. I don't think the seat-warming idea is going to work. Let people make up their own minds whether they want to listen to it or not, rather than decoy listeners each night into hoping that Art might show up that time. From what I have read, Heather isn't making the show her own for the very reason that Art might come back again - that does her, and the listeners, a disservice.

I agree with you about the subject, at least with the way Art presents it. There is quite a lot of stuff out there that Art didn't appear to be interested in considering - it's as though he had made up his mind about it all and wasn't prepared to listen to anything new. I can't remember any of the guests from the new show that made you think that this was the new John Lear, or Malachi Martin or (despite his best efforts) Evelyn Paglini. I suppose the internet has ruined a lot for us, when we can go and check on someone's credentials - or lack of them - instantly to see if they are a fraud.

I felt that a lot of potential areas in the new show weren't explored at all, and that accounts for a great deal of the disappointment. I think many people felt underwhelmed with the new show, even if they weren't prepared to admit it at the time. I'm sure a lot of that had to do with the fact that he wasn't breaking new ground any more, but seemed happy to play the same old tunes one more time, even if they had become rather stale now.

[zeebo]

It would probably be better if it was presented as her own show, and given on its own terms. I don't think the seat-warming idea is going to work. ...

I have made this exact point as well.  I think alot of this angst could have been avoided if MITD had just been killed outright or put on long-term hiatus, and Heather had been given her own show with it's own name, own theme music, own segments, etc.   

In it's undefined state, there's been a kind of uncertain cloud over the show which has been confusing for the audience and an unnecessary hindrance for Heather, who imho has a future in this, and just needs a little time to grow into it. 

In any case, I guess it's a moot point now ... it is how it is, and I give her credit for making the best of the situation that presented itself to her. 

[onan]

In any case, I guess it's a moot point now ... it is how it is, and I give her credit for making the best of the situation that presented itself to her.

Excellent point, and as you say it speaks well of her.

[Gruntled]

He might love radio, but I don't think he loves all the hassle that goes along with it. After some time has passed he starts feeling itchy again and forgets what a pain he found it all, but when he gets back on air all the doubts start returning and he is ready to jack it in again. He must have been doing the new show barely a month before he started mentioning how it was cutting into time with his family, as though that had never occurred to him before. He really loves radio when he's not actually doing it - when he gets back on air it all starts to seem too much like a job again and he starts to remember all those other things that he would rather be doing.

When you hear people in sport talk about why they are retiring, they usually say that they still love the game, but they don't like doing the training any more. In most cases, they are probably still up to the job, but they don't love it enough to put in all the effort that they used to do so they don't make the same impact any more. It's the same with Art - he's lost a step, but he's not willing to work as  hard as he did when he first started the show to get it back to where it used to be. Fair enough, the guy has been there and done it, but I wished he had been a little more honest with himself and others this time around, and understood his limitations.

Well said  SV.

[venix]

I have to agree that she should have made the show her own. The fact that she is using Art's shows name, theme and bumpers doesn't sit well with most and that is why there is such a backlash. I'm surprised the show isn't called "Midnight in the Desert with Art Bell with Heather Wade".

My unsolicited advice is to make the show her own. New name, new theme, new bumpers.

[Uncle Duke]

He might love radio, but I don't think he loves all the hassle that goes along with it. After some time has passed he starts feeling itchy again and forgets what a pain he found it all, but when he gets back on air all the doubts start returning and he is ready to jack it in again. He must have been doing the new show barely a month before he started mentioning how it was cutting into time with his family, as though that had never occurred to him before. He really loves radio when he's not actually doing it - when he gets back on air it all starts to seem too much like a job again and he starts to remember all those other things that he would rather be doing.

When you hear people in sport talk about why they are retiring, they usually say that they still love the game, but they don't like doing the training any more. In most cases, they are probably still up to the job, but they don't love it enough to put in all the effort that they used to do so they don't make the same impact any more. It's the same with Art - he's lost a step, but he's not willing to work as  hard as he did when he first started the show to get it back to where it used to be. Fair enough, the guy has been there and done it, but I wished he had been a little more honest with himself and others this time around, and understood his limitations.

Reminds me of the quote by Dorothy Parker, "I hate writing, but love having written".

[ItsOver]

One of things I don't understand with Art is the all or nothing approach.  Middle ground is certainly not his middle name.  It's either 5 nights a week or nothing.  Why he doesn't eventually do just one week a night, ala Dreamland, and let Heather and/or others carry the remaining nights is beyond me.  I'd continue to subscribe for one week a night of Art.  I guess it's just his personality.

[whoozit]

One of things I don't understand with Art is the all or nothing approach.  Middle ground is certainly not his middle name.  It's either 5 nights a week or nothing.  Why he doesn't eventually do just one week a night, ala Dreamland, and let Heather and/or others carry the remaining nights is beyond me.  I'd continue to subscribe for one week a night of Art.  I guess it's just his personality.

As you said, he's all in or all out.  I wonder if he uses this approach in his personal life too?  If so he must be exhausted.

[VtaGeezer]

...might love radio, but I don't think he loves all the hassle that goes along with it.

He loathes the hassle.  Bell is a real recluse and admittedly anti-social. He chooses to live on the desolate fringe of populated America.  Being involved in a daily program meant interfacing with people, making commitments, and acting responsibly.  Not a comfortable place for The Hermit Host.  Once the novelty wore off (again), and it became a source of stress, it was a certainty that Bell would close down, and again retreat into the cave.  Same happened with C2C (several times) and the Sirius gig.

[VtaGeezer]

One of things I don't understand with Art is the all or nothing approach.  Middle ground is certainly not his middle name.  It's either 5 nights a week or nothing.  Why he doesn't eventually do just one week a night, ala Dreamland, and let Heather and/or others carry the remaining nights is beyond me.  I'd continue to subscribe for one week a night of Art.  I guess it's just his personality.

It's a guest-driven show and I think it would be many times more difficult to schedule interesting guests when limited to a once-a-week live  late night slot since Bell won't prerecord.  edit- I also think once-a-week doesn't fit Bell's apparent need for a strict daily routine.

[ItsOver]

It's a guest-driven show and I think it would be many times more difficult to schedule interesting guests when limited to a once-a-week live  late night slot since Bell won't prerecord.  edit- I also think once-a-week doesn't fit Bell's apparent need for a strict daily routine.

Well you still have Heather for other nights and guests plus Art could just take the same approach he did with Dreamland, which was only on Sunday nights.  As I noted, flexibility doesn't seem to be Art's strong suit.  Art does what Art wants.

[ItsOver]

As you said, he's all in or all out.  I wonder if he uses this approach in his personal life too?  If so he must be exhausted.

Ha!  Yes, that's an emotionally draining approach if you deal with people.  He no doubt uses the avoidance approach, which I can understand.  Probably one of the reasons he lives in the middle of nowhere.

[pyewacket]

SredniVashtar, I hope you don't mind my quoting your post in its entirety, but you've made so many good points that I'd like to add to them, if I may.

It would probably be better if it was presented as her own show, and given on its own terms. I don't think the seat-warming idea is going to work. Let people make up their own minds whether they want to listen to it or not, rather than decoy listeners each night into hoping that Art might show up that time. From what I have read, Heather isn't making the show her own for the very reason that Art might come back again - that does her, and the listeners, a disservice.

I didn't think this was a good idea right from the start. You cannot simply make a substitution and expect people to accept it indefinitely. Heather should be allowed to make the show her own as long as she is the one in the hot seat trying to fulfil the obligations to which Art had initially agreed.

I actually gave similar advice to George during our 'blitz' days and am now embarrassed by my own presumption. As I had advised George to step out from Art's shadow, to stop trying to copy Art's style and music, and to embrace the show and make it his own, I would offer the same advice to Heather. She is in limbo. It's probably good experience that she can build on, but it can also hurt her in the end. Some people are taking their frustration out on her and others are simply writing her off. They need to "free Heather".

I agree with you about the subject, at least with the way Art presents it. There is quite a lot of stuff out there that Art didn't appear to be interested in considering - it's as though he had made up his mind about it all and wasn't prepared to listen to anything new. I can't remember any of the guests from the new show that made you think that this was the new John Lear, or Malachi Martin or (despite his best efforts) Evelyn Paglini. I suppose the internet has ruined a lot for us, when we can go and check on someone's credentials - or lack of them - instantly to see if they are a fraud.

I felt that a lot of potential areas in the new show weren't explored at all, and that accounts for a great deal of the disappointment. I think many people felt underwhelmed with the new show, even if they weren't prepared to admit it at the time. I'm sure a lot of that had to do with the fact that he wasn't breaking new ground any more, but seemed happy to play the same old tunes one more time, even if they had become rather stale now.

Again, well observed and well stated, SV. Art does seem stuck in the past. Maybe it's his comfort zone. I can't blame him, it's tough enough to come back but the real challenge is to tackle unfamiliar guests and new perspectives on the old reliable subject matter. This was most evident to me by his insistence of finding "a cauldron stirring/broom flying witch" with apparently no clue as to the changes in attitude about witches over the years. Not exactly a welcome attitude in many of the pagan (term used as a broad umbrella of diverse groups) communities.

It was unfair to shoehorn new guests into the persona of Art's favorites from the past. He seemed to be searching for doppelgängers of Paglini, M Martin, and Lear. Those were awful shows that might have worked if the guests were not 'auditioning' to be someone else.

There is no shortage of strange people and activity in the world today. Maybe it's best to leave it to those young and curious enough to explore them. Art's old shows will continue to entertain his fan base. Not a bad legacy. I have enjoyed Art's show in the past and I'm no longer waiting for his return. I wish him and his family well.   

[VtaGeezer]

Tell ya what guys.  Being under Bell's shadow is the least of HW/MITD's problems. The show was headed south by September with content too often sadly mediocre.  Even Bell couldn't carry deadly boring or ridiculous guests night after night.  Bell jumped the shark with the moronic "flat-earther" show.

[Value Of Pi]

SredniVashtar, I hope you don't mind my quoting your post in its entirety, but you've made so many good points that I'd like to add to them, if I may.

I didn't think this was a good idea right from the start. You cannot simply make a substitution and expect people to accept it indefinitely. Heather should be allowed to make the show her own as long as she is the one in the hot seat trying to fulfil the obligations to which Art had initially agreed.

I actually gave similar advice to George during our 'blitz' days and am now embarrassed by my own presumption. As I had advised George to step out from Art's shadow, to stop trying to copy Art's style and music, and to embrace the show and make it his own, I would offer the same advice to Heather. She is in limbo. It's probably good experience that she can build on, but it can also hurt her in the end. Some people are taking their frustration out on her and others are simply writing her off. They need to "free Heather".

Again, well observed and well stated, SV. Art does seem stuck in the past. Maybe it's his comfort zone. I can't blame him, it's tough enough to come back but the real challenge is to tackle unfamiliar guests and new perspectives on the old reliable subject matter. This was most evident to me by his insistence of finding "a cauldron stirring/broom flying witch" with apparently no clue as to the changes in attitude about witches over the years. Not exactly a welcome attitude in many of the pagan (term used as a broad umbrella of diverse groups) communities.

It was unfair to shoehorn new guests into the persona of Art's favorites from the past. He seemed to be searching for doppelgängers of Paglini, M Martin, and Lear. Those were awful shows that might have worked if the guests were not 'auditioning' to be someone else.

There is no shortage of strange people and activity in the world today. Maybe it's best to leave it to those young and curious enough to explore them. Art's old shows will continue to entertain his fan base. Not a bad legacy. I have enjoyed Art's show in the past and I'm no longer waiting for his return. I wish him and his family well.

I think he was well aware of changes in attitudes towards witches but was disappointed by the results when he had some "new-age witches" or "good witches" on the show. Having that woman running the Church of Satan on (not a witch thing but disappointing to him in the same way) finally made him desperate to get some kind of fire and brimstone or cauldron-stirring on the show. Hence, his appeal for a bad, old-fashioned witch.

[pyewacket]

I think he was well aware of changes in attitudes towards witches but was disappointed by the results when he had some "new-age witches" or "good witches" on the show. Having that woman running the Church of Satan on (not a witch thing but disappointing to him in the same way) finally made him desperate to get some kind of fire and brimstone or cauldron-stirring on the show. Hence, his appeal for a bad, old-fashioned witch.

I'm not so sure, Pi, but it's not of any real importance since Art's left the show. I'm not an advocate for any of these groups and I'm only making an observation. Art seemed to be looking for a theatrical portrayal of a wicked witch and could have found one to be a recurring JC like character. That might have worked for him, but I doubt it because it's been played out over the years. The on air auditions were not good show material IMO. 

[pyewacket]

Tell ya what guys.  Being under Bell's shadow is the least of HW/MITD's problems. The show was headed south by September with content too often sadly mediocre.  Even Bell couldn't carry deadly boring or ridiculous guests night after night.  Bell jumped the shark with the moronic "flat-earther" show.

Can't argue with you there, Geezer. I tuned out for the most part about 2 weeks before Art "hung it up". I kinda liked that "flat-earther" debate show because of the good professor. He was funny and he did try to convince the other guest with scientific facts against all the insane FEer's claims. 

[Value Of Pi]

I'm not so sure, Pi, but it's not of any real importance since Art's left the show. I'm not an advocate for any of these groups and I'm only making an observation. Art seemed to be looking for a theatrical portrayal of a wicked witch and could have found one to be a recurring JC like character. That might have worked for him, but I doubt it because it's been played out over the years. The on air auditions were not good show material IMO.

Right, the auditions were not fun. But a continuing caller who could portray witches the way JC portrayed bible-thumping fundamentalists (and JC managed to keep it fresh and funny) would be pretty entertaining. It's fun just thinking about it.

[GravitySucks]

Tell ya what guys.  Being under Bell's shadow is the least of HW/MITD's problems. The show was headed south by September with content too often sadly mediocre.  Even Bell couldn't carry deadly boring or ridiculous guests night after night.  Bell jumped the shark with the moronic "flat-earther" show.

I skipped the flat earther one because I have heard that stupity on other podcasts like The Higherside Chats. That show was August 5th. I think the worst show was "Truth or Trash" on August 28th. They definitely should have rehearsed that off the air. And then said forget it.

[boxman]

Tell ya what guys.  Being under Bell's shadow is the least of HW/MITD's problems. The show was headed south by September with content too often sadly mediocre.  Even Bell couldn't carry deadly boring or ridiculous guests night after night.  Bell jumped the shark with the moronic "flat-earther" show.

I feel the same way and that just coincidenced with her being the new producer.
I think she actually does a much better as a host than producer. She found guests that often sounded good on paper but it never seemed like she actually researched them properly before asking them to be on the show.
It was not all horrible though, which is why i continued to listen, but in general the show seemed to decline from that point with fewer interesting guests.

[Element 115]

I skipped the flat earther one because I have heard that stupity on other podcasts like The Higherside Chats. That show was August 5th. I think the worst show was "Truth or Trash" on August 28th. They definitely should have rehearsed that off the air. And then said forget it.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I thought Truth or Trash was pretty fun.

[csummers]

Heather(redacted) is getting rough treatment for sure. Thats the way it goes in that business and the things she has said in this forum about george in the past are showing her that what goes around comes around. Yes george sucks, but its hard to defend heather against people treating her the same way she treated george if thats how people should treat those they think suck.
just a few examples,

Eeeeeewwwwww.  George.  Never, ever play "Kiss Me" ever again.  Ew.  So gross.  No one wants to get near your Bells Palsy, pizza roll burnt, mush mouth.  *shudder*
http://bellgab.com/index.php/topic,3.msg243337.html#msg243337

I keep hoping for some sort of Noory-induced suicide/death, but it never happens.
http://bellgab.com/index.php/topic,3.msg241124.html#msg241124

The Nooron deserves all the bashing he gets and then some!
http://bellgab.com/index.php/topic,3.msg269036.html#msg269036

That retarded, worthless, lame, ungrateful, molester-stache wearing, creepy, inept.... grrrrrr!!!
http://bellgab.com/index.php/topic,3.msg130947.html#msg130947

[Robert]

Okay, but my question would still be, why would the people responsible for covering up the FU feel the need to cover it up in the first place? Telling the truth would be bad news for the Secret Service, but would it be worth trying to cover up when the minimal result would be dangerous theories about the Russians or the Cubans being responsible and massive uncertainty around the world (which is what happened)? I don't see any plausible motivation for a massive coverup when simply telling the truth would be less risky all around.

In a world where the Sec'y of State attributed a lethal attack on an embassy to a video, you have to ask that?

[VtaGeezer]

I feel the same way and that just coincidenced with her being the new producer.
I think she actually does a much better as a host than producer. She found guests that often sounded good on paper but it never seemed like she actually researched them properly before asking them to be on the show.
It was not all horrible though, which is why i continued to listen, but in general the show seemed to decline from that point with fewer interesting guests.

I wondered then if she had any experience as a guest-oriented show producer (should be "booker"; if anyone one's the producer, it's Rowland).  Bell was lucky to get one decent guest a week, and had only a few strong ones like Hancock and Kaku, whom I think signed on for old time's sake and won't be back for the MITD amateur hour.  I just can't imagine HW interviewing either of those.

[K_Dubb]

The fact that she is using Art's shows name, theme and bumpers doesn't sit well with most and that is why there is such a backlash.

Really?  I've seen this critique posted repeatedly and, try as I might, I can't understand it.  It reminds me of my mom who gets all happy when she has new curtains or a new tablecloth.  Unfathomable.