Midnight In The Desert

[Value Of Pi]

It's an easy cop out. When presented with a deluge of logical inconsistencies a lot of people always want to fall back on massive incompetence. Every other day they're getting it right, by the book but on these big days EVERYONE shits the bed?! Nah! You'll have to do better. And BTW, all that's needed to pull a successful conspiracy like this off is money, power and compartmentalization. I'd say the likely players had easy access to all three. However, there were MANY significant errors and things that didn't go down exactly as planned. Hence the conspiracy theories that followed from intelligent or at least alert people noticing them.

First off, if this was a giant conspiracy and coverup, it was a total success. Nothing was ever proven about Oswald's co-conspirators or handlers. Nobody was ever arrested and convicted for the crime. LBJ became president, power transitioned and life went on. All there was, was confusion and people spouting theories, most of them conflicting. Just noise.

I could deconstruct every other part of your post as well. For example, you say of the Secret Service that every other day they're getting it right and Dallas was an exception or the exception. Not so. Presidential motorcade routes were published routinely in advance. Kennedy was often exposed to the same kind of sniper attack, either in open cars or other open locations. Same with other deficiencies in security. They wouldn't happen today but they did then, quite often.

Also, giant conspiracies, even small ones, are much harder to plan and execute than you think. For example, every conspiracy to kill Hitler failed -- and there were many. Most were nipped in the bud early. Others got further. One nearly succeeded but failed in the end and Hitler survived.

But many people think as you do and that's why all these books sell.

[Jackstar]

All there was, was

RFK
MLK
Vietfuckingnam

And then, there's you

[Dr. MD MD]

First off, if this was a giant conspiracy and coverup, it was a total success. Nothing was ever proven about Oswald's co-conspirators or handlers. Nobody was ever arrested and convicted for the crime. LBJ became president, power transitioned and life went on. All there was, was confusion and people spouting theories, most of them conflicting. Just noise.

I could deconstruct every other part of your post as well. For example, you say of the Secret Service that every other day they're getting it right and Dallas was an exception or the exception. Not so. Presidential motorcade routes were published routinely in advance. Kennedy was often exposed to the same kind of sniper attack, either in open cars or other open locations. Same with other deficiencies in security. They wouldn't happen today but they did then, quite often.

Also, giant conspiracies, even small ones, are much harder to plan and execute than you think. For example, every conspiracy to kill Hitler failed -- and there were many. Most were nipped in the bud early. Others got further. One nearly succeeded but failed in the end and Hitler survived.

But many people think as you do and that's why all these books sell.

Nor has the official story ever been proven. As I said, it wasn't a total success. If it were we'd all just accept that a crazy lone gunman did it and MOST do not. It's best just to look where the evidence leads and try not to make up theories like massive incompetence to explain everything. I think I read THAT book too 

[Value Of Pi]

Nor has the official story ever been proven. As I said, it wasn't a total success. If it were we'd all just accept that a crazy lone gunman did it and MOST do not. It's best just to look where the evidence leads and try not to make up theories like massive incompetence to explain everything. I think I read THAT book too 

The conspirators wouldn't have cared one way or another whether this percentage or that percentage of the public believed or didn't believe that Oswald did it alone. Or whether the official story could be proven. Their mission would have been to kill JFK and to cover their tracks sufficiently so that the key conspirators could never be exposed and held responsible -- with all the consequences that would ensue. For example, if it were the Russians or Cubans, the result might easily be war with the U.S.

The most reasonable story we have, based on the facts that we have, is a determined assassin and very bad security. People aren't satisfied but that's what we're stuck with until more evidence is uncovered or one of Art's guests invents a time machine.

And massive incompetence is not a theory, it's a fact of life.

[GravitySucks]

The conspirators wouldn't have cared one way or another whether this percentage or that percentage of the public believed or didn't believe that Oswald did it alone. Or whether the official story could be proven. Their mission would have been to kill JFK and to cover their tracks sufficiently so that the key conspirators could never be exposed and held responsible -- with all the consequences that would ensue. For example, if it were the Russians or Cubans, the result might easily be war with the U.S.

The most reasonable story we have, based on the facts that we have, is a determined assassin and very bad security. People aren't satisfied but that's what we're stuck with until more evidence is uncovered or one of Art's guests invents a time machine.

I haven't seen any of you discuss the 30.06 shell casing found later on the roof of the Dallas County Records Building.
You can google it or check here:
https://riversong.wordpress.com/the-jfk-assassination-inconsistencies/

The driver couldn't have dropped that. Btw, I don't buy the driver theory.

If you have every been near gunfire, you know the difference between a handgun and a rifle shot. If a handgun had been discharged in the limo, both of the Connally's would have been in direct line or it and Jaqueline would have heard it. You wouldn't have been aboe to silence those three people if the driver shot him.

[venix]

You want a credible conspiracy? How about the conspiracy that Heather Wade used Art's time machine to travel back in time to assassinate Kennedy to take the heat off her and MITD by derailing this thread. Mission accomplished.

[Dr. MD MD]

The conspirators wouldn't have cared one way or another whether this percentage or that percentage of the public believed or didn't believe that Oswald did it alone. Or whether the official story could be proven. Their mission would have been to kill JFK and to cover their tracks sufficiently so that the key conspirators could never be exposed and held responsible -- with all the consequences that would ensue. For example, if it were the Russians or Cubans, the result might easily be war with the U.S.

The most reasonable story we have, based on the facts that we have, is a determined assassin and very bad security. People aren't satisfied but that's what we're stuck with until more evidence is uncovered or one of Art's guests invents a time machine.

And massive incompetence is not a theory, it's a fact of life.

And here you're putting it forward as a competing theory but, given the facts, an inadequate and unsatisfying one. Given what the Warren Commission left out and the trail of dead witnesses associated with the Kennedy assassination I'd say the conspirators cared VERY much what people thought. Perhaps not so much anymore now that so much time has passed and people have been intellectually or even physically bullied into accepting the official story.

[norland2424]

You want a credible conspiracy? How about the conspiracy that Heather Wade used Art's time machine to travel back in time to assassinate Kennedy to take the heat off her and MITD by derailing this thread. Mission accomplished.

i actually heard it was noory who did it

[Jackstar]

The most reasonable story we have, based on the facts that we have, is a determined assassin and very bad security. People aren't satisfied but that's what we're stuck with until more evidence is uncovered or one of Art's guests invents a time machine.

Fallacious straw choice man.

[Jackstar]

Well, that's certainly conclusive, isn't it.  Case closed.  Still have keyboard Tourette's, I see. But we all have different ways of reliving our youth.

You know you're beaten and we can all smell the reek of your fear.

Yeah, it's all just coincidence.

[Zenman]

The name of the show and this thread should be changed to: Real (Redacted) With Heather Wade

If Art comes back, let him get his own show.

[Zenman]

Midnight In The Desert With Heather Wade
Mon Jan 11 â€" Bill Birnes â€" UFO Hunters Book 2

Website: http://futuretheater.com/
Bill Birnes is a New York Times bestselling author, the creator, consulting producer, writer, and lead host of History Channel’s UFO Hunters. Bill is also one of the creators and guest experts on History’s Ancient Aliens. He is currently featured as a commentator on Discovery’s Unsolved NASA Files and the upcoming Reelz TV “Dr. Feelgood.” Birnes’ forthcoming books are the Life and Times of Mickey Rooney in October, Psychiatric Criminology in January, UFO Hunters Book 2 in January, and Edison’s Last Invention: The Spirit Phone will be released this spring. Birnes holds a Ph.D. and a J.D., was a National Endowment for the Humanities Fellow, and is the co-host of the Dark Matter Digital Network’s Future Theater.

[Scully]

For whatever it's worth, Clint Hill's version of why the Secret Service weren't on the footboards of JFK's car that awful day was that the President had specifically forbidden them to be.  He wanted to project a fearless image in the enemy territory of Dallas in spite of the Secret Service's objections.

The obvious rebuttal to this is that Clint Hill is just saying what a member of the SS would say. I recommend his book, "Mrs. Kennedy and Me," published in 2012.  He came out with another one, "Five Days in November" the following year, but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet. For those who don't remember the name, Hill was the one who managed to get Jackie Kennedy back into the car when she did whatever it was she was doing on the trunk of the car.

But that's just me. You guys have me hammered into a state of depression regarding pretty much everything.  Heather Wade being the least of my concerns.   

[Northern Nights]

Midnight In The Desert With Heather Wade
Mon Jan 11 â€" Bill Birnes â€" UFO Hunters Book 2

One of my favorite guests, I'm looking forward to this. The upcoming Edison book is exciting news too. It's a little known historical footnote and it's hard to find information about it other than some obscure websites.

[Chronaut]

Midnight In The Desert With Heather Wade
Mon Jan 11 â€" Bill Birnes â€" UFO Hunters Book 2

Website: http://futuretheater.com/
Bill Birnes is a New York Times bestselling author, the creator, consulting producer, writer, and lead host of History Channel’s UFO Hunters. Bill is also one of the creators and guest experts on History’s Ancient Aliens. He is currently featured as a commentator on Discovery’s Unsolved NASA Files and the upcoming Reelz TV “Dr. Feelgood.” Birnes’ forthcoming books are the Life and Times of Mickey Rooney in October, Psychiatric Criminology in January, UFO Hunters Book 2 in January, and Edison’s Last Invention: The Spirit Phone will be released this spring. Birnes holds a Ph.D. and a J.D., was a National Endowment for the Humanities Fellow, and is the co-host of the Dark Matter Digital Network’s Future Theater.

I want to like Bill Birnes - apparently he's very knowledgeable on ufology and widely respected(?).  But all I've seen him on is Ancient Aliens and UFO Hunters, and I just never get the sense that he looks at anything impartially.  He's always shamelessly selling the alien angle "we don't know what happened...therefore aliens" kinda stuff.  Is he really such a one-dimensional shill, or is that the "tv persona" he wears to make money through bad television programs (and if it is just a persona, does that make it anymore forgivable)?  And isn't he primarily responsible for so badly butchering Corso's The Day After Roswell that it's useless to ufology?

[Showroom Dummy]

time machine is on TCM right now      --amazing  !!

[Chronaut]

time machine is on TCM right now      --amazing  !!

Nicccce...  =P

[FightTheFuture]

One can't prove a negative, but 50+ years of constant and extensive in-depth indie investigation has turned up nothing of any substance. And there have been no deathbed confessions to any trusted figure (though we know we can't trust anybody; they're all in on it).

But keep up the dream...it's fun to postulate and it keeps the cranks out of real mischief.

*ding* *ding* *ding*

Another winner. Hard to believe that folks still buy into some elaborate scheme involving thousands of people throughout numerous government and/0r international agencies/organizations to murder Kennedy. Folks, it was Oswald. And Oswald ALONE.

If you don`t believe it was the lone nut Oswald, find some solid evidence to the contrary. ANY evidence.

[Tinfoil_Helm]

Birnes holds a Ph.D. and a J.D., was a National Endowment for the Humanities Fellow, and is the co-host of the Dark Matter Digital Network’s Future Theater.

A doctor AND a lawyer!  Great.  Heather should be able to really engage this cat.  Maybe we'll get some extra "Ooooohs!" and "Aaaaahs!" outta her tonight.

[VtaGeezer]

I actually believe they trained for just such an event. It was their job, after all. For some mysterious reason that day none of the protocols were followed. D'oh! 

It was a much less sophisticated era.  Training in the '60s was a joke compared to today's training procedures for every contingency analysts can imagine.  It seems like they trained and planned only for attempts at close range with a handgun.

[PB the Deplorable]

A doctor AND a lawyer!  Great.  Heather should be able to really engage this cat.  Maybe we'll get some extra "Ooooohs!" and "Aaaaahs!" outta her tonight.

And an author, he was the ghost writer for George Noory's highly acclaimed Wanker in the Dark autobiographies, and his late night snacks recipe book

[VtaGeezer]

I want to like Bill Birnes - apparently he's very knowledgeable on ufology and widely respected(?).  But all I've seen him on is Ancient Aliens and UFO Hunters, and I just never get the sense that he looks at anything impartially.  He's always shamelessly selling the alien angle "we don't know what happened...therefore aliens" kinda stuff.  Is he really such a one-dimensional shill, or is that the "tv persona" he wears to make money through bad television programs (and if it is just a persona, does that make it anymore forgivable)?  And isn't he primarily responsible for so badly butchering Corso's The Day After Roswell that it's useless to ufology?

I'm out.  HW will be interviewing a professional promoter.  For Birnes, paranormal/UFOs/etc are a cottage industry.  I wouldn't be surprised to learn he has a few bucks in DMDN/MITD.  Everyone has a right to make a buck off UFOs etc, but when he took his "UFO Hunters" crew into Santa Monica Bay just a few miles from LAX to search for an undersea UFO base (never mind that the real     undersea base is 20 miles away off Pt Mugu in the most heavily instrumented area of the Pacific Ocean), he triple-jumped the shark and all credibility.  Not to mention that he's ghost/co-written four books with our hero Noory.

[dan7800]

I will be listening to the show. Maybe it is the over saturated paranormal realm, but I think we are generally too quick to poo poo a guest.

Good show tonight Heather.

[SredniVashtar]

Good show tonight Heather.

It's usually customary to listen to the show first before deciding whether it was any good or not, unless you possess clairvoyant skills denied to the rest of us poor slobs.

[dan7800]

It's usually customary to listen to the show first before deciding whether it was any good or not, unless you possess clairvoyant skills denied to the rest of us poor slobs.

Who says I am not a time traveler? That isn't even a supernatural skill. You should probably fix your inaccurate quote.

How embarrassing.....

[albrecht]

Quite true.  Can't remember his real name, but it would not have sounded out of place on one of George Knapp's true crime, mafia shows.

Ha. It would be funny if like much of the mob here and in Italy if he was involved with the illegal dumping of dangerous waste or at least controlled the trash racket in his city.

[Robert]

Oh sure. The US had never had an assassinated president before him so they were totally unprepared, right?

They don't get a lot of practice.  Hickey -- the one w the AR-15 -- had been on the job only 4 mos.

[SredniVashtar]

Who says I am not a time traveler? That isn't even a supernatural skill. You should probably fix your inaccurate quote.

How embarrassing.....

I say you're not a time traveller, and that's good enough for most people. It might not be a supernatural skill, it's just non-existent, so I guess you've got me there. But I think we can all agree that you are desperate for attention and easy to please if you are in raptures about a show you haven't heard yet.

I should have said 'clairaudient', of course, but that's what happens when you read something from a witless wonder - the mind tends to mush a bit. 

[Robert]

Nor has the official story ever been proven. As I said, it wasn't a total success.

I'd say if I murdered someone & 50+ yrs. later hadn't been indicted for it or lynched, that's a success.

However, Oswald was not a success, because he didn't kill Connally, yet was lynched!

[Robert]

I haven't seen any of you discuss the 30.06 shell casing found later on the roof of the Dallas County Records Building.

And that's why it would've been useless to search for casings on the BLM land west of the Bells's.  Say one was found; you can find casings all over the place, they're insignificant.