Midnight In The Desert

[Chronaut]

Well said.  Plus the stupid are increasingly exploited by low lifes who push their false flag fantasies for a dirty buck.

I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately â€" why aren’t all of the sicko con artists preying on people’s gullibility criminally charged with fraud and imprisoned?  After reading the truth about “Dr.” Jonathan “Reed”/Rutter, for example, I was shocked that such a wicked sociopath could sell fraudulent books and go around spewing lies, rather than cooling his heels in a penitentiary where he belongs.

How can it be legal to intentionally defraud the public for profit?

Perhaps an even more chilling problem is covert online psychological operations, but that's a whole other outrageous ball of wax.

[Dr. MD MD]

I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately â€" why aren’t all of the sicko con artists preying on people’s gullibility criminally charged with fraud and imprisoned?  After reading the truth about “Dr.” Jonathan “Reed”/Rutter, for example, I was shocked that such a wicked sociopath could sell fraudulent books and go around spewing lies, rather than cooling his heels in a penitentiary where he belongs.

How can it be legal to intentionally defraud the public for profit?

Perhaps an even more chilling problem is covert online psychological operations, but that's a whole other outrageous ball of wax.

Because that's what they do in fascist regimes where there is no freedom of speech. Yeah, let's go there  :

If you say the official story of the Warren Commission is the truth, I think that's fraud. Let's go after the people who did that!

[Chronaut]

Because that's what they do in fascist regimes where there is no freedom of speech. Yeah, let's go there  :

We jailed Bernie Madoff for fraud.  Why is that illegal, but making a bunch of money from selling books and tickets isn't?  I mean, there are people willing to testify that Rutter talked to them about the fraud he was cooking up with to prey upon Art Bell's audience, he lied about his credentials and work history to perpetrate the fraud - it can all be proven in a court of law, and the damages can be easily established in book and ticket sales.  The Warren Commission not so much - and it wasn't written to sell book and tickets so proving damages would be a big problem (and then of course there's a bunch of good empirical evidence supporting that document, whereas Rutter has nothing but fake props and photos that could be proven to be fakes by forensic examination).

[Dr. MD MD]

The "Magic Bullet" stuff was debunked several years ago with real time 3D analysis by a professional technical animation company used by Ford and GM that used the accurate relative positions of JFK and Connally in the limo instead of the old 2D diagrams from bad data that made it look implausible.  The Myers 3D recreation has been attacked by conspiracy nuts using hand sketches and  nondimensional images.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM

Try again.

It's just that the timing doesn't line up with the existing film of the event. Connally, apparently unharmed, turns around after the first shot hit Kennedy to see what happened and it's only then that you see him all of a sudden grimace because a DIFFERENT bullet just hit him. Then the fatal head shot. It's amazing the lengths people will go to to prove this crazy lone gunman theory. 

[Dr. MD MD]

We jailed Bernie Madoff for fraud.  Why is that illegal, but making a bunch of money from selling books and tickets isn't?  I mean, there are a bunch of people willing to testify that Rutter talked to them about the fraud he was coming up with to prey upon Art Bell's audience - it can be proven in a court of law, and the damages can be easily established in book and ticket sales.  The Warren Commission not so much - and it wasn't written to sell book and tickets so proving damages would be a big problem (and then of course there's a bunch of good empirical evidence supporting that document, whereas Rutter has nothing but fake props and photos that could be proven to be fakes by forensic examination).

Umm...money...because he used fraud to outright steal a bunch of money from people. I don't believe in the Bible as a historical record or even as the absolute word of God but it's still allowed to be sold without fraud charges being laid. If someone wants to read a book or consider an opposing viewpoint or argument you think that should be illegal in America?! 

[Chronaut]

It's just that the timing doesn't line up with the existing film of the event. Connally, apparently unharmed, turns around after the first shot hit Kennedy to see what happened and it's only then that you see him all of a sudden grimace because a DIFFERENT bullet just hit him. Then the fatal head shot. It's amazing the lengths people will go to to prove this crazy lone gunman theory. 

Did you watch the video?  Frame 224 makes it clear that they were both hit by the same bullet.

[Dr. MD MD]

The first TX sighting of Bigfoot was on the Grassy Knoll.

Yep, when the truth isn't working just go for ad hominem attacks that cast the opposing viewpoint as crazy. Cheap shots won't help your official fantasy though. There's too much excluded evidence against it for it to ever be credible to most.

[norland2424]

So Heather killed kennedy now? Lol you guys should make a kennedy thread and duke it out there.

[VtaGeezer]

It's just that the timing doesn't line up with the existing film of the event. Connally, apparently unharmed, turns around after the first shot hit Kennedy to see what happened and it's only then that you see him all of a sudden grimace because a DIFFERENT bullet just hit him. Then the fatal head shot. It's amazing the lengths people will go to to prove this crazy lone gunman theory. 

The timing is fixed by the film speed.  The simulation is frame by frame.  I think conspiracists suspend reality to support their politics and emotions.  Its made many susceptible to more and more nonsense, culminating in the lowest form of assholes calling 9/11 and Sandy Hook "false flags" by the American govt. and making a fortune.

[Dr. MD MD]

Did you watch the video?  Frame 224 makes it clear that they were both hit by the same bullet.

Yes, I've seen it before and reviewed it again now but it's still speculative because Kennedy is conveniently behind the sign at the moment they're analyzing. He could've had his hands up, and most likely did, before that. There has been lots of analysis of that and the Nix film since the Peter Jennings special.

[VtaGeezer]

Yep, when the truth isn't working just go for ad hominem attacks that cast the opposing viewpoint as crazy. Cheap shots won't help your official fantasy though. There's too much excluded evidence against it for it to ever be credible to most.

There as just much evidence that Bigfoot was on the Grassy Knoll as GHWB was in on it, or any of the other JFK conspiracists' boogeymen. Find some evidence. Until then ad hominems are in order...this is BG.

[Chronaut]

Umm...money...because he used fraud to outright steal a bunch of money from people. I don't believe in the Bible as a historical record or even as the absolute word of God but it's still allowed to be sold without fraud charges being laid. If someone wants to read a book or consider an opposing viewpoint or argument you think that should be illegal in America?! 

I'm starting to question your intelligence Dr. MD MD.

Obviously opposing viewpoints and opinions are not fraud.  And ancient books written and edited by dozens of people aren't relevant to the discussion because even if we could prove an intent to commit fraud, we can't charge dead people.

Perhaps you're deflecting because you don't know the case.  "Dr." Jonathan "Reed" is a professional con artist who intentionally invented a fake story to make money selling books and tickets.  He spoke about his plan to witnesses who soon realized that everything he had told them about himself (even to his fiancee, her daughter, and all of their friends) was a fabricated lie.  Nearly everyone who knows him would like to testify against him in a court of law.  Everything about his story can be proven to be a lie in a court of law.

It's clearly a case of fraud, not simply of people honestly seeing things differently.  He even recruited other people to perpetuate the fraud for money, which raises conspiracy questions.  We know what they said and who they said they are, and who they actually are.

So we can prove intent, we can prove the facts of the fraud, and we can prove the damages.  I don't see why that should be legal, yet Bernie Madoff is in jail.  It's the same crime using different tools:  securities vs. books and tickets.

[Dr. MD MD]

Well, we're not going to change each others minds and really, what does it matter what we think about it. The coup worked and George Bush et al have been running the show since. Hasn't it been great? 

I might also remind you that money is also made selling the official story too.

[VtaGeezer]

There has been lots of analysis of that...since the Peter Jennings special.

And none stand up to it.  Unless you take bloggers' hand drawn sketches and suppositions based on selective info over professionally done digital simulation based on hard empirical data from the scene and the record.  Myers Animation has a major commercial reputation to maintain, its obtuse to infer he faked a simulation for a fee from ABC.

[GravitySucks]

Well, we're not going to change each others minds and really, what does it matter what we think about it. The coup worked and George Bush et al have been running the show since. Hasn't it been great? 

I might also remind you that money is also made selling the official story too.

Yeah that whole 8 years of Clinton and 8 years of Obama are some devious Bush plan... Who'd a thunk it.

[Chronaut]

Yes, I've seen it before and reviewed it again now but it's still speculative because Kennedy is conveniently behind the sign at the moment they're analyzing. He could've had his hands up, and most likely did, before that.

What??  We see him before with his right arm raised, and then a fraction of a second later as he comes out from behind the sign with his arm in basically the same position, a single frame after the bullet hits them.  So we know what position he was in, and we see both of their reactions simultaneously.

The only way there could've been two bullets, is if they were timed within the span of one frame, within 1/24th second.  But there's no reason to think that, because the trajectory of the analysis proves that a single bullet from the same window explains both injuries simultaneously.

[Dr. MD MD]

I'm starting to question your intelligence Dr. MD MD.

Obviously opposing viewpoints and opinions are not fraud.  And ancient books written and edited by dozens of people aren't relevant to the discussion because even if we could prove an intent to commit fraud, we can't charge dead people.

Perhaps you're deflecting because you don't know the case.  "Dr." Jonathan "Reed" is a professional con artist who intentionally invented a fake story to make money selling books and tickets.  He spoke about his plan to witnesses who soon realized that everything he had told them about himself (even to his fiancee, her daughter, and all of their friends) was a fabricated lie.  Nearly everyone who knows him would like to testify against him in a court of law.  Everything about his story can be proven to be a lie in a court of law.

It's clearly a case of fraud, not simply of people honestly seeing things differently.  He even recruited other people to perpetuate the fraud for money, which raises conspiracy questions.  We know what they said and who they said they are, and who they actually are.

So we can prove intent, we can prove the facts of the fraud, and we can prove the damages.  I don't see why that should be legal, yet Bernie Madoff is in jail.  It's the same crime using different tools:  securities vs. books and tickets.

I'm not familiar with Dr. Reed. He may be a fraud. I was simply arguing from the point of view that the assassination was a conspiracy to get rid of Kennedy and not the plot of a crazed lone gunman. You can call me crazy and question my intelligence all you want. I just don't think people should be jailed for reading, writing or considering this. Anyway, sorry if I wandered in on your convo. My bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS8X2Qp_6aA

[Dr. MD MD]

Yeah that whole 8 years of Clinton and 8 years of Obama are some devious Bush plan... Who'd a thunk it.

I honestly don't see a whole lot difference in policies so yeah. 

[GravitySucks]

I honestly don't see a whole lot difference in policies so yeah. 

Dem Bushes got skills...

Glad they let Johnson, Nixon, Carter and Reagan play in the sandbox while they hatched their diabolical plans.

[Dr. MD MD]

Dem Bushes got skills...

Glad they let Johnson, Nixon, Carter and Reagan play in the sandbox while they hatched their diabolical plans.

Oh, I know. There's nothing deeper going on than the president and it's a robust, two party system  : Sigh...I give up. You can have your official story if it makes you feeler safer or whatever.

[albrecht]

A great quote from that clip:

“I know that millions and millions of people in this country believe there was a conspiracy. People want to believe that the world is not that random.  That things are not that chaotic. That something larger, bigger, was at stake here.  Because I think it’s very difficult for them to accept the idea that someone as inconsequential as Oswald could have killed someone as consequential as Kennedy.”
- Robert Dallek, author “An Unfinished Life”

I see that principle at work everywhere:  The Oklahoma City federal building bombing, the 9/11 attacks, the Sandy Hook Massacre.  Even here in the microcosm, with all of the people who refuse to believe that Art's stalker forced him off the air.

But I think I've grown even more cynical than Mr. Dallek, because all of those conspiracy theories appear to be a subset of an even broader group of conspiracy theories which also includes things like the Moon Landing conspiracy and the Flat Earth conspiracy:  people don't just want to find a larger explanation for the ugly stupid reality that one worthless schmuck with a gun can fuck up everything - they're also driven by the arrogant need to feel superior, to be smarter than everyone else who is "duped" by the factual evidence.  Ultimately, it's that egoistical compulsion that enslaves people's minds even regarding the central questions of our existence, and seduces them to embrace things like Creationism and other forms of radical fundamentalism.

So when you bite right down to the marrow, the reason the world is such a brutal, senseless, confused catastrophe, is that even stupid people are driven by the eclipsing conceit to feel that they're smarter than everyone else, even when every fact testifies against them.

911, OKC, etc were conspiracies. The government even put out books detailing the conspiracy and in OKC's case prosecuted people involved. Terry Nichols is in prison- convicted for- wait for it- CONSPIRACY (in addition to some other counts!) Sandy Hook is not one since only one nutjob was involved. The only issue is whether one believes the government theory of what those conspiracies entailed or the conspiracy theories of others. Conspiracy is a crime that is prosecuted daily in our court rooms and it amazes me how normally logical, knowledgeable people say "there are no conspiracies." Tell that to the people setting in prison having been convicted, like Terry.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/oklahoma/nichols.htm
"Nichols, 43, showed no emotion as U.S. District Judge Richard P. Matsch imposed the sentence of life without parole for conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction"

[Dr. MD MD]

What??  We see him before with his right arm raised, and then a fraction of a second later as he comes out from behind the sign with his arm in basically the same position, a single frame after the bullet hits them.  So we know what position he was in, and we see both of their reactions simultaneously.

The only way there could've been two bullets, is if they were timed within the span of one frame, within 1/24th second.  But there's no reason to think that, because the trajectory of the analysis proves that a single bullet from the same window explains both injuries simultaneously.

Yep, you're absolutely right! That's surely the way it went down.

[Chronaut]

I'm not familiar with Dr. Reed. He may be a fraud. I was simply arguing from the point of view that the assassination was a conspiracy to get rid of Kennedy and not the plot of a crazed lone gunman. You can call me crazy and question my intelligence all you want. I just don't think people should be jailed for reading, writing or considering this.

Yeah you're conflating Jonathan Rutter's intentional case of fraud, with people honestly seeing the assassination differently:  two completely different animals.  Obviously the people who refuse to believe all of the forensic evidence supporting Oswald as the lone assassin are innocently mistaken, not perpetrating a fraud =p

[Chronaut]

911, OKC, etc were conspiracies.

You know what I meant: "government conspiracies."  The whole "Prison Planet" kind of thing.

[Dr. MD MD]

You know what I meant: "government conspiracies."  The whole "Prison Planet" kind of thing.

I get it. you mean that governments are NEVER involved in them. It's only ever crazy loners or radical terrorists but never EVER governmnet. Got it.

[albrecht]

You know what I meant: "government conspiracies."  The whole "Prison Planet" kind of thing.

I know but think one needs to be precise because there are conspiracies (even 'prison planet' kind of things sometimes. Read any history and one will find countless examples of royal intrigue, criminal conspiracies, price-fixing conspiracies, organized crime, etc etc.) A vast global, all-encompassing one? Doubtful. But do governments, royals, big companies, organized crime figures, terrorists, etc conspire? All the time and it is frequently prosecuted (when caught) though usually just a slap on the wrist considering the amount of money involved (LIBOR, BBCI, and banks laundering money for terrorists and cartels quickly come to mind.) Stuff like LIBOR are the conspiracies people should be concerned about.

[Value Of Pi]

No, not all the shots.  Not the one that blew up JFK's head.  (Well, blew up his head more, I mean...he had a swell head for years before that.)  That one was from a Secret Servant, and it too was accidental.Of course, there was a coverup of the Secret Servant's shot!

I have two things to say to you. First, are JFK assassination jokes "in" now (because I definitely can't get in with that)? Second is, how come everybody (it seems) gets to have a pet theory on this subject but me? I've heard a lot of theories but I just can't seem to adopt and then adapt one of my own. I can't even fake that I have one. Sad, isn't it?

[Showroom Dummy]

http://boingboing.net/2016/01/07/1964-photo-of-the-guys-who-bui.html

[Value Of Pi]

Hillary, that you?

Oh, crap! You're right. I sound just like her. And it's happening even though I try real hard not to listen to her.

[Chronaut]

I get it. you mean that governments are NEVER involved in them. It's only ever crazy loners or radical terrorists but never EVER governmnet. Got it.

Oh for god's sake.  I specified the OKC bombing, 9/11, and the Sandy Hook massacre - tons of people actually think those were government false flag operations.

Obviously the government all-too-frequently participates in conspiracies:  MK Ultra, the Tuskegee experiments, the massive secret surveillance programs, plus the covert online psysops that I'm always carrying on about.  We have actual evidence about all of that stuff.

But these days an alarming number of people think that Everything nightmarish that's reported in the news is some kind of insidious government operation.  The whole stupid "Jade Helm is Obama's invasion of Texas" rubbish, I've even heard people claiming that Sandy Hook never happened - that it was all staged and the grieving parents were paid actors.  People seem eager to buy that bullshit so they can think they're "ahead of the curve."  Pathetic.  And it only undermines the rightful outrage that should be focused on the real and damaging conspiracies, like the House of Representatives kneeling before guys like Jamie Dimon with their mouths wide open.