Turkey shoots down a Russian Su-24

[VtaGeezer]

Boy, did this thread go radioactive.   

[Richard Groyper]

Boy, did this thread go radioactive.   

Here. We. Go.

[JamesMcDonald]

He didn't have anything on his mind, and stop calling him Shirley.

[Yorkshire pud]

This is too complex a theme for me to talk think about.

Well you got that right. You're not over endowed with thinking material. To summarise you detest anyone who doesn't 'think' and behave like you do. In short, you're a sad, lonely, bitter, misogynist, biggotted fuckwit, who has the same understanding of the world and it's myriad differences as a cup of cold sick.

that's what most lesbians look like...

How the fuck would you know? You haven't been near a woman let alone know which way up to hold one.

and, I consider women as grown up children. They do whatever society tells them is right. You can't really take women serious, and so I also can't really blame them. They should not even be allowed to vote, if you ask me.

Yeah. That's why you're still sucking your mums tit. Idiotic twat.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

Is it wrong that I still find two of the ladies in that picture fuckable even though I wouldn't want to hear a word of their political bullshit.

Do I have low standards, weird kinks or am I functioning normally?

[Yorkshire pud]

Is it wrong that I still find two of the ladies in that picture fuckable even though I wouldn't want to hear a word of their political bullshit.

Do I have low standards, weird kinks or am I functioning normally?

Hater and reported.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

Hater and reported.

Just asking for a reality check. I'll start objectifying them as soon as I know where I stand. 

[GuerrillaUnReal]

make sure you wear a full body suit condom if you touch any of these

Truthfully, they're all probably in open relationships and will fuck anything that moves. Especially bad boys who are completely counter their crazy bullshit. I'm okay with that demographic even if they are hypocritical and insane.

[Yorkshire pud]

make sure you wear a full body suit condom if you touch any of these

Oh you're hysterical. You wouldn't have a clue how to start. It wouldn't surprise me if you sympathise/aspire to be with Fritzl. Not at all.

[Dr. MD MD]

A hundred years ago people were lamenting the integration of Irish and Italians with much the same heated rhetoric.

Right, and that's when the mafia started taking over. See Godfather 1 & 2

[Dr. MD MD]

The problem is that immigrants bring their delicious food with them.  Germans can't shut up about their döner kebabs from the last wave of Turkish immigrants.  And I still dream about the chicken karahi (21 different spices!) from a place near where I used to live run by a devout Afghani (Pashtun) who would pause taking takeout orders to pray.

Damn good point! It almost makes up for all the fear, corruption and general descent of a democratic republic into a fascist police state. Love that Za though!

[Dr. MD MD]

I agree with you, time to get back to realpolitik.  I think W swayed a lot of us with his democracy talk which promised good things for the region, me included, and we're now repenting of our naiveté.  What's tragic is that going back to the status quo ante, splitting client states with Putin, is the best we can get at this point and we'd be damned lucky to get it.

Realpolitik...Yeah, that's worked out great for the world...No bad karma there!  :

[Dr. MD MD]

Turkey has always been a pain in the ass. It`s just really nice to see them wax a filthy Russian. Hell, I`ll even throw out an Allahu Akbar on that!

Sad. Et tu, Brute?

[Dr. MD MD]

So I'm pretty happy none of this crap is hitting the US. Let the Russians deal with this mess while we quietly cheer on both sides.

The real issue to me is why did IS have American TOW missiles that they used to shoot down a rescue helicopter? That story seemed to be around for a day before completely disappearing.

There always seems to be evidence of the US support of these terrorists going way back to when they used them to bring down communist Russia. Now they're playing the game of "no not these terrorists, those terrorists." Russia's just pressing them to cut the bullshit duplicity. However, they'll keep aiming militant Muslims at us until they get the all out police state they're going for and then they'll clean up the Muslim problem in the way they always do.

[Dr. MD MD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVg2EJvvlF8

From the man's own mouth: "the song 'Imagine,' which says, Imagine that there was no more religion, no more country, no more politics is virtually the communist manifesto, even though I am not particularly a communist and I do not belong to any movement. You see, 'Imagine' was exactly the same message, but sugar-coated. Now 'Imagine' is a big hit almost everywhere; anti-religious, anti-nationalistic, anti-conventional, anti-capitalistic song, but because it is sugar-coated it is accepted."

[Dr. MD MD]

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Spoken like a true commie 

[Dr. MD MD]

absolutely.
Imagine is the type of song people love who think it's anti-establishment while being pretty much 100% pro establishment really.
anti religion, anti national, liberalism is 100% what globalism also promotes.
it's basically the song of the new world order for cucks.
but it's not as terrifying as "we are the world, we are the children" by USA for Africa.

anybody still want to send food to Africa?

Well, Goldfinger, I don't really think he wrote it as a "song of the new world order for cucks." I tend to think his motives were more genuinely his own desire to see a more peaceful, cooperative world with no war. However, I have heard some of the more fringe theories about he and Beatles being front for the Tavistock Institute. I'm not denying it could be true I just haven't looked too deeply into that yet nor have I seen any real chain of evidence presented for this yet. Wouldn't it be a better world without a bunch of deluded people convinced they have a direct phone line to God waging war on the rest of us though? And I'll include Christians and Jews who believe this too, to be fair.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

I'm Austrian. I know this is not a racist forum, thank you. I don't consider myself a racist, rather a racial realist.

That movie Bruno was funny. Is he on TV often in Austria?

[GuerrillaUnReal]

There always seems to be evidence of the US support of these terrorists going way back to when they used them to bring down communist Russia. Now they're playing the game of "no not these terrorists, those terrorists." Russia's just pressing them to cut the bullshit duplicity. However, they'll keep aiming militant Muslims at us until they get the all out police state they're going for and then they'll clean up the Muslim problem in the way they always do.

I completely agree with you. Most of this international islam terrorism always seems to be connected to the US somehow and seems to involve US money at some point. When word came out that it was an American TOW missile that brought down a Russian rescue helicopter, my first thought was Oh... I've seen this movie before. My second thought was to reflect on the Bill Hicks joke where he said how do we know what weapons the bad guys have? We looked at the receipt.

[albrecht]

Interesting that the announced Russian sanctions toward Erdogan’s Turkey are only announced are various travel ones with, supposedly, more to come....would be nice to cut off wheat to the radicals and their power. But anyone reckon gas pipeline TurkStream or refusing to build them their nuclear power plant? Haha. It will be interesting to see if Putin backs up his words and sanctions against the Muslims because these types of deals might hurt him (well, not "him", but Russians) and hurt him trying to gain more advantage in the region. Or turns off the gas to Europe, since Turkey is NATO so, I guess, attacks by them could be considered a NATO attack? Russians are used to misery but how long could he hold it if he actually did it? I'm guessing the Russians are more used to being cold, without power, and etc than most of Europe though it would sink the Russian economy even further.....

[albrecht]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHCEmThaMLc
A nice video about ISKANDER-M (and a few SMERCH) launchers.
One of the reasons Turkey better stop their messing around.

Russian Sanctions against Turkey:
* ban on hiring Turkish employees in Russia
* VISA required to travel to Russia
* ban on Charter flights
* recommendation against Tourism to Turkes (Russians were #2 in Turkeys foreign guests)
* restriction on import of Turkish goods
* restriction on activities of Turkish organisations in Russia
http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151128/1030923785/russia-sanctions-turkey.html

Sounds like policies that Germany, and the rest of Europe, should've done many decades ago. Common-sense measures.
But what of the FTZ, the gas pipeline, and the nuclear power plant that were agreed on (or mostly agreed upon between Putin and Erdogan? The big stuff.

[b_dubb]

MY Governor, the right honorable Nikki Haley, has decreed that we shall not accept any of those refugees. Atta girl, Nikki!

Because South Carolina governors are such pious, principaled examples of whatever the fuck passes for Christian these days

[VtaGeezer]

Its notable that deployment of S-400 SAMs at Latakia put Tel Aviv at the edge of their 400 km range.

http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm?clat=35.5407103&clng=35.79526669999996&r=400&lc=FFFFFF&lw=1&fc=00FF00&nomoreradius=true

I'm not very familiar with non-ship launched US SAM systems but I can't find any with anything like that kind of range.

[Centurion40]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHCEmThaMLc
A nice video about ISKANDER-M (and a few SMERCH) launchers.
One of the reasons Turkey better stop their messing around.

Russian Sanctions against Turkey:
* ban on hiring Turkish employees in Russia
* VISA required to travel to Russia
* ban on Charter flights
* recommendation against Tourism to Turkes (Russians were #2 in Turkeys foreign guests)
* restriction on import of Turkish goods
* restriction on activities of Turkish organisations in Russia
http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151128/1030923785/russia-sanctions-turkey.html

I wouldn't be too quick to bet against the Turks.  Erdogan's AKP regime is every bit as petulant as Putin's Russia United regime. The Turks have a large and well equipped army.  And it currently appears as if they were waiting for the chance to pounce at a Russian jet; they took the shot the first chance they got.  They seem to be benefiting from the instability that ISIS has brought to the region.  They appear to be purchasing the cheap ISIS oil, and are using the instability to arm and train ethnic Turkish Syrians and Iraqis; and they don't want the Russians attacking their Syrian and Iraqi Turk cousins.

The Turks feel safe in NATOs arms.  They can poke the bear and don't have to worry about getting mauled.

[VtaGeezer]

Obama is meeting w/Erdogan today.  I'd like to be a fly on the wall in that room.

[Uncle Duke]

I wouldn't be too quick to bet against the Turks.  Erdogan's AKP regime is every bit as petulant as Putin's Russia United regime. The Turks have a large and well equipped army.  And it currently appears as if they were waiting for the chance to pounce at a Russian jet; they took the shot the first chance they got.  They seem to be benefiting from the instability that ISIS has brought to the region.  They appear to be purchasing the cheap ISIS oil, and are using the instability to arm and train ethnic Turkish Syrians and Iraqis; and they don't want the Russians attacking their Syrian and Iraqi Turk cousins.

The Turks feel safe in NATOs arms.  They can poke the bear and don't have to worry about getting mauled.

Great post, clear and insightful analysis without getting bogged down.  Only thing I'd have added is the Turks are demons on the battlefield, even the hardcore North Koreans and Chinese avoided Turkish troops during the Korean War.

[Centurion40]

Obama is meeting w/Erdogan today.  I'd like to be a fly on the wall in that room.

So would the Russkies.

[Yorkshire pud]

A briefing:

No, I didn't write it.

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people
    rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning.

    But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic
    State (who are definitely bad) and some continued to support democracy (who
    are still good).

    So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad)
    and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight
    Assad (who is still bad) which was good.

    By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who
    want to fight IS (which is a good thing) but the Turkish authorities think
    they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking
    they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is
    another matter.

    Getting back to Syria. President Putin (bad, as he invaded Crimea and the
    Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London
    with polonium) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS
    (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?

    But Putin (still bad) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad,
    and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are
    good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).

    Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any
    nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground
    troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have
    ground troops and aircraft in Syria.

    So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians
    (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which
    is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.

    Now the British (obviously good, except Corbin who is probably bad) and the
    Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting
    Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad
    might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).

    So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (no real choice
    there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them
    good. America (still good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being
    attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that
    mad ayatollah in Iran (also good) and so they may be forced to say that the
    Rebels are now bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This
    will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still
    the only constantly bad group).

    To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by
    Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will
    now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and
    hence many Muslims will now see IS as good (doh!).

    Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in
    support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (might have
    a point) and hence we will be seen as bad.

    So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited
    support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (good / bad)
    for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (also good) and
    Putin (also, now, unbelievably, good ) are attempting to retake the country
    Assad used to run before all this started?

    I hope that this clears it all up for you.

[Centurion40]

Great post.  Clear and insightful analysis without getting bogged down.

Thanks Unkie D!

Digging into the political direction of modern Turkey has been an interesting journey.  When a Turkish soldier is killed fighting the PKK, the Turkish government and sanctioned media refers to that soldier as having been "martyred".   

Erdogan's party is considered "neo-Ottoman". Could be that ISIS might have a competitor for the caliphate title!

[Centurion40]

A briefing:

No, I didn't write it.

A more pithy summary would be simply "FUBAR". Perhaps leaving the entire area to the neo-Ottoman Turks might be a 'least of all evils' kind of situation.  Then all the islamo-crazies could turn on them!