20150811 - Seth Shostak, SETI - Live Chat Thread

[ShayP]

I love listening to Seth Shostack....or as Hoagland started to say last night/morning....Soff Sethshak.  LOL!  He started with "Soff" but I created the rest....was hoping he'd finish it that way.

[ShayP]

Andrew Basiago tonight. Hmmm....Project Pegasus...Time Travel.  Interesting indeed.    Still don't thing this guy was at Gettysburg as a child BUT.............

[CornyCrow]

As expected, tonight's show was very good. Art really knows how to talk to people like Seth. Seth was polished and entertaining, as usual.

Inspired by all the flat-earther talk recently, I'd say that the SETI Institute's search for ET signals using radio waves is akin to the flat-earthers claiming that the Earth is flat. Maybe not the best analogy, but they both defend their theories despite all the evidence all around them that clearly shows they're wrong.

Yes.  If you KNOW they are already here, it is boring to listen to this talk of SETI and the wasted time, effort, and money.  It's all so irrelevant.

[griffen247]

Great show. One of Seth's best appearances.

A barely functioning retard would have made for a better interview..... Were you to busy?

[ZomZom]

Seth is a favorite guest of mine.  He's raised the funds to build the equipment,  hired the personnel to staff the project and conducted the research to methodically listen to radio (and now visible light) frequencies from thousands of stars.  Even with no signal yet detected, he and SETI have collected valuable data.  Those who prefer a search using gravity waves, ESP, other-dimensional means or God-knows-what are free to walk their walk as well, and should consider the dues Seth has already paid before cricising the work done by him and SETI.

[aldousburbank]

Seth is a favorite guest of mine.  He's raised the funds to build the equipment,  hired the personnel to staff the project and conducted the research to methodically listen to radio (and now visible light) frequencies from thousands of stars.  Even with no signal yet detected, he and SETI have collected valuable data.  Those who prefer a search using gravity waves, ESP, other-dimensional means or God-knows-what are free to walk their walk as well, and should consider the dues Seth has already paid before cricising the work done by him and SETI.

I grew my own space mushrooms at 18 yrs of age. Communication channels opened wide up. This is the real shit. Seth should try it.

[henge0stone]

I think the key difference though is that there's plenty of evidence which contradicts the flat-earth model, but no significant evidence that SETI is necessarily wrong - there's just no evidence yet that they're right.  And they have a ton more data still to collect.

I agree, that's the worst comparison ever. Literally every fact we have about the Earth tells us its round, exploring for Extraterrestrials is not a science in the traditional term like Seth said last night. We have no idea where they are or if they are out there, but I believe (and so do enough people to fund SETI) that its worth looking.

We're finding new planets all the time and making new discoveries in space so I don't see why SETI should already be labelled as a failure. Listening to older shows with Seth its clear we haven't even searched 1% of the galaxy yet and already people are done with SETI, its frustrating to see how people have no concept of just how many stars and possible planets there are out there.

Last night was a good show but I don't think it was a good show about SETI or space. We really didn't learn anything about their progress, how much of the galaxy they have scanned, Seth's thoughts on Pluto and other space matters. It was kind of depressing in that sense because space is so interesting and the entire show was lets hit seth with the strangest ideas, like that a ghostbox can pick up ET or that Seth is a robot . It was entertaining but a good show on new discoveries in space is still needed.

[VictoriaPandora]

I wonder if Art remembers his old SETI team online?
Team Art Bell.

its still going, but has dropped to about 45th in the rankings.
We've been running it for 15 years.

I guess if we ever get another WOW signal, I'll stay up late and call in.
Although, there are loads of spikes in the data, but I dint really know what any of it means.

I'm glad Seth called out Richard Greer.

A friend told me that Greer admitted to him that most of the "implants" he'd seen or removed were pebbles or rocks, lol.
And doesn't Greer run ECETI or something like tha? Massive drinking club in the desert. I can understand how that would lead to nasty gravel filled tumbles.

[chefist]

Andrew Basiago tonight. Hmmm....Project Pegasus...Time Travel.  Interesting indeed.    Still don't thing this guy was at Gettysburg as a child BUT.............

Would have been more convincing if he were missing a limb...

[Uncle Duke]

Andrew Basiago tonight. Hmmm....Project Pegasus...Time Travel.  Interesting indeed.    Still don't thing this guy was at Gettysburg as a child BUT.............

Is he the guy who claims he and Obama went to Mars?

[ShayP]

Is he the guy who claims he and Obama went to Mars?

Not sure.  Now that you mention it...seems familiar.

[AppealPlay]

I really wish Hoagie would call in sometimes to BRIEFLY question guests. It would be a great lead in to Otherside.

There is nothing brief about RCH.  Hoagie is the definition of long form.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

A barely functioning retard would have made for a better interview..... Were you to busy?

Pro tip:  I always find when making unsolicited and unjustified attacks on people's intelligence, it is best to understand the difference between words like 'to' and 'too.'  Little details can make a big difference to the quality of your post!

[DarkMike]

I love Jim Henson. How is being compared to him an insult?

It's an insult to Jim Henson.

[Uncle Duke]

Pro tip:  I always find when making unsolicited and unjustified attacks on people's intelligence, it is best to understand the difference between words like 'to' and 'too.'   Little details can make a big difference to the quality of your post!

I seen that to. 

[RichardHoaxland]

I don't get the Seth hate either. If anything he sounded nervous and fidgety to me. Didn't hear any "arrogance" or whatever people are saying.

[UnscreenedCaller]

Is he the guy who claims he and Obama went to Mars?

Yes, and he's sticking to his story.

He claims to have teleported to Mars in the 1980s as an Earth ambassador to the Martian civilisation. This is strange because when he published his article nearly three decades later, he claims to have been "astonished" to discover life on Mars. Along with William B. Stillings, a comrade he dug up somewhere, Basiago now claims that President Obama was a fellow Mars traveller back in the day, then living under the moniker "Barry Soetoro." In fact, the fact that Barack Obama used to go by Barry Sotero may be the only truth in Basiago's claims. Basiago and Stillings say they met Obama on Mars, and the government is now covering up the president's space travel past. [5]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Andrew_Basiago#Travel_to_Mars

[mainenwo]

As someone who's been running Seti@home for over a decade I was disheartened when Seth Shostack told Art that even if they detect a interesting carrier signal...they wouldn't be able to listen to the modulation for at least 10 years because they don't have the machine built to do that.

If I'm mistaken please let me know guys...but my heart just sank makes me want to uninstall seti@home

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

As someone who's been running Seti@home for over a decade I was disheartened when Seth Shostack told Art that even if they detect a interesting carrier signal...they wouldn't be able to listen to the modulation for at least 10 years because they don't have the machine built to do that.

If I'm mistaken please let me know guys...but my heart just sank makes me want to uninstall seti@home

I think finding an artificial carrier signal would be more monumental than actually decoding it.

[albrecht]

Is he the guy who claims he and Obama went to Mars?

As I recall he saw Obama on mars and Obama was a part of the same program but at a different time.

Re: the conversation and Art's claim about LDEs (Long-delayed Echos,) they are an interesting phenomena and there are several theories besides the ones mentioned during the show. Also it is pointed out that it could be faked/lied about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_delayed_echo

[ShayP]

As someone who's been running Seti@home for over a decade I was disheartened when Seth Shostack told Art that even if they detect a interesting carrier signal...they wouldn't be able to listen to the modulation for at least 10 years because they don't have the machine built to do that.

If I'm mistaken please let me know guys...but my heart just sank makes me want to uninstall seti@home

I recall that but don't believe we don't have the technology.  I am trying to remember the context in which he made the statement, but yeah....it is disheartening.

[albrecht]

I recall that but don't believe we don't have the technology.  I am trying to remember the context in which he made the statement, but yeah....it is disheartening.

I think he used the comparison that one could "hear" the signal off a radio, tv, cell phone but not get the information contained in that signal without the equipment/algorithm to decode it. Right now, at least, he is spending the energy on trying to detect a signal, which so far hasn't happened. Then there would be work, with technology we might not have, to decipher the meaning (with I guess varying degrees of difficultly depending on the message etc?)

[aldousburbank]

From my limited understanding of the methodolgy, Shostsk's job is simply to remind us that there is no ET signal, nothing to see here, send your donations, watch more television.

[griffen247]

I seen that to. 

Careful.... you may get a 'Pro Tip' now, for both grammatical structure and spelling..... I'm frantically trying to find that extra 'o' on my keyboard now, in case the obvious sarcasm is diluted with it's absence for future readers. How do I spell nit-picker Georgie For President 2216? Was I joking with this question or do I need to put it in bold also? Never mind, I'll figure it out..... Phew, I'm glad a joke to a supporter of Shostak a.k.a 'Government Shill' went by without incident..... Nobody flew off the planet at all, especially given the concern it may be flat and we're all stupid.

P.S On a serious note - has anyone tried to supply the STS-48 footage of the object changing direction when seemingly fired upon from earth to Seth Shostak? I find it incredibly hard to believe someone in the business of searching for life in the universe, has not seen this footage as he claims.  It's a major red flag in my opinion.  If by some chance this is the truth, I would love to hear what his response would be when he does finally see it.  My money would be on an ice particle at trick distance perception to viewer - it does seem to be the pre-programed answer with that condescending laugh thrown in case anyone was mistaken who intellect was in the conversation.

[mainenwo]

I think he used the comparison that one could "hear" the signal off a radio, tv, cell phone but not get the information contained in that signal without the equipment/algorithm to decode it. Right now, at least, he is spending the energy on trying to detect a signal, which so far hasn't happened. Then there would be work, with technology we might not have, to decipher the meaning (with I guess varying degrees of difficultly depending on the message etc?)

I understand that we may not be able to understand what we pickup from the signal

but he said beyond picking up the carrier signal we would have to wait 10 years to even  hear the what I would call "audio" so if i'm understanding this right we get a good carrier signal basicly just some high peaks on some paper charts...then have to go begging for more funding to build this super receiver to be able to hear it in audio?
It makes no sense to me even Art was shocked when he heard it.

We can pick up the sounds from the Big Bang on our radios and TV sets...we can hear the radio"sounds" of Pulsars light years away but ..according to Seth We don't have the ability to hear modulation from an ET  what am I missing here?

[zeebo]

I don't get the Seth hate either. If anything he sounded nervous and fidgety to me. Didn't hear any "arrogance" or whatever people are saying.

Yep he's really down-to-earth and modest for someone so smart.  People who have any interest in ET life should have nothing but respect for him.  Here's a guy with all the degrees who could go any direction in science he wants - and he's pretty much devoted his entire working career to the pursuit of knowledge of life beyond earth. 

[zeebo]

...We can pick up the sounds from the Big Bang on our radios and TV sets...we can hear the radio"sounds" of Pulsars light years away but ..according to Seth We don't have the ability to hear modulation from an ET  what am I missing here?

I was surprised by this too and wish Art had asked him to elaborate.  My thinking on it is that any signal we'd get would be pretty faint and they haven't figured out the combo of hardware/software it would take to pull the data out of it yet.  And since all their funds go to just the basic search there's no point in building such a gizmo yet.

[griffen247]

Has anyone tried to supply the STS-48 footage of the object changing direction, when seemingly fired upon from earth, to Seth Shostak?

I find it incredibly hard to believe in this day and age of media sharing for someone in the business of searching for life in the universe, to have not seen this footage as he claims.  It's a major red flag in my opinion. 

If by some chance this is the truth, I would love to hear what his response would be when he does finally see it.  My money would be on an "ice particle at a trick distance perception to the viewer" type of response - it does seem to be the pre-programed answer, coupled with that condescending laugh thrown in, just in case anyone was mistaken who the intellect is supposed to be in the conversation.

I totally respect Seth, despite my dig at him above, but it's very hard to continue to do so, when he puts in appearances such as this. 

He's either one of two things, a un-informed employee not read in to policy, who therefore believes in himself as genuine..... or he is the public face of dis-info to anyone questioning how S.E.T.I can justify their lack of success and continued budget allocation which if I'm not mistaken takes us to 2025....ish.

Has K.P.I performance ever snuck it's way into a government job contract in the U.S..... I'm just wondering out loud?

[mainenwo]

Has anyone tried to supply the STS-48 footage of the object changing direction, when seemingly fired upon from earth, to Seth Shostak?

I find it incredibly hard to believe in this day and age of media sharing for someone in the business of searching for life in the universe, to have not seen this footage as he claims.  It's a major red flag in my opinion. 

If by some chance this is the truth, I would love to hear what his response would be when he does finally see it.  My money would be on an "ice particle at a trick distance perception to the viewer" type of response - it does seem to be the pre-programed answer, coupled with that condescending laugh thrown in, just in case anyone was mistaken who the intellect is supposed to be in the conversation.

I totally respect Seth, despite my dig at him above, but it's very hard to continue to do so, when he puts in appearances such as this. 

He's either one of two things, a un-informed employee not read in to policy, who therefore believes in himself as genuine..... or he is the public face of dis-info to anyone questioning how S.E.T.I can justify their lack of success and continued budget allocation which if I'm not mistaken takes us to 2025....ish.

Has K.P.I performance ever snuck it's way into a government job contract in the U.S..... I'm just wondering out loud?

I don't think Seth is a Government Hack but He does what he has to do for that funding....but in my humble opinion the hope of Seti finding something has faded for me its time for a new approach

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Careful.... you may get a 'Pro Tip' now, for both grammatical structure and spelling..... I'm frantically trying to find that extra 'o' on my keyboard now, in case the obvious sarcasm is diluted with it's absence for future readers. How do I spell nit-picker Georgie For President 2216? Was I joking with this question or do I need to put it in bold also? Never mind, I'll figure it out..... Phew, I'm glad a joke to a supporter of Shostak a.k.a 'Government Shill' went by without incident..... Nobody flew off the planet at all, especially given the concern it may be flat and we're all stupid.

P.S On a serious note - has anyone tried to supply the STS-48 footage of the object changing direction when seemingly fired upon from earth to Seth Shostak? I find it incredibly hard to believe someone in the business of searching for life in the universe, has not seen this footage as he claims.  It's a major red flag in my opinion.  If by some chance this is the truth, I would love to hear what his response would be when he does finally see it.  My money would be on an ice particle at trick distance perception to viewer - it does seem to be the pre-programed answer with that condescending laugh thrown in case anyone was mistaken who intellect was in the conversation.

Alright, fair enough.  Last night there was a lot of frustration directed at people who backed Shotstak as coming at this from a scientific perspective.  I thought calling someone a retard when he simply expressed that he enjoyed the interview deserved some blow back.  It's a pretty offensive term to begin with.

Perhaps Shostak is not revealing everything he knows.  I doubt he's hiding anything but I don't know.  I don't think he was making anything up though.  There may be a lot of compelling subjective evidence for extra-terrestrial life but science has to be rigourous in vetting its facts, or it becomes an invalid tool.  Everything he said sounded valid to me.