Ebola

[aldousburbank]

to clarify, none of the ebola threads were deleted.  they were all merged into one (this) thread.

Is that in compliance with CDC Ebola protocol?

[Yorkshire pud]

You`re clueless about our culture. All you know is what a select few crackpot websites and your own biased TV networks spout. When you spend as many years as I have traveling around THIS nation and getting to know the people of it, get back to me.  Perhaps then your opinions of this country will have some value.

Our TV networks may be many things; biased against the US they're not. I'd go as far as to say thay largely give the US a pretty balanced reportage. Good and bad things are given equal billing. Currently Ebola has hit the headlines but they're neither ripping Obama's eyes out nor commisioning statues in his honour in Trafalgar Square. From my pov I have several American friends and at least two want me to have their babies. I don't know yet how I'm going to gestate a foetus but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Eddie Coyle]

Hopefully you had the insight to stock up on plastic bags, non recycled ass-wipe, and incadescent light bulbs.

    Nah, just a hole in the ground for storage and excreta and a glowing neon skull I got at the Salem Witch Museum in 1980 provides just enough illumination.

[Yorkshire pud]

Is that in compliance with CDC Ebola protocol?

He screened and disinfected first. No worries.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

The "savings", so the theory usually goes, is on the back-end. It saves the government money from not having to provide pensions, health benefits, retirement, vacation time, office overhead and upkeep, equipment leases, etc. Similar idea for the outsourcing security at consulates and for some military operations. Individuals working there make more $$ than regular troops but after service need to handle their retirement, healthcare, mental health etc on their own dime (or by the private company.) And the privatization and PPPs also "saves" government money because any liabilities (human rights violations, lawsuits, worker's comp, sexual harassment, etc) get transferred to the contractor or worker.

-Not sure how this got on the Ebola thread but, I guess, everything comes down to politics including why we are still issuing VISAs to people traveling in from Ebola infected countries.

I'm not sure it's a real benefit.  My provincial government, at least, pays exorbitant hourly rates to contracting companies in order to cover all the employee benefits.  I can't say I have a broad overview though.  And as in Yorkie's case, a lot of the work and privatized companies get sold off to American interests who don't much care about what happens here across the border and don't return the money back into our economy.

[PB the Deplorable]

I would love to be quarantined for 3 weeks.

Then be sure to not catch Ebola or fly in from W Africa

[albrecht]

I'm not sure it's a real benefit.  My provincial government, at least, pays exorbitant hourly rates to contracting companies in order to cover all the employee benefits.  I can't say I have a broad overview though.  And as in Yorkie's case, a lot of the work and privatized companies get sold off to American interests who don't much care about what happens here across the border and don't return the money back into our economy.

Yeah, that is why I put "savings" in quotes. In some circumstances it might save money but in other cases not. I don't like the ideas of PPPs in many circumstances. In particular where already build infrastructure is "outsourced" or "sold" to private companies to manage, maintain, collect tolls. A small example: in my opinion if it is private tollway than my State police (paid with public funds) should not be there collecting tickets for speeding etc. And the State should be not in charge of collecting debts for unpaid tolls or tickets (meaning fining you, not letting you register your car, etc.) They want to build a private road. Fine- but not be emanate domain (pay market prices for the real estate) and don't use public funds to police it and civil court system to collect debt. If the public already build the road, bridge, etc than there needs to be a clear policy if sold (or managed) by private company (maybe a lease, maybe a requirement to upgrade it, maybe revert back to public property once paid off by tolls, etc.) In general the PPPs are just a way to outsource the profit and socialize the costs. I'm against the dole, at least for longterms, for people and for corporations- especially foreign ones in either case.

[Camazotz Automat]

Speaking of American TV/film/culture...

I've been told my greatest musical strength lies in my lyrical abilities.

Today's graphic on topic.

[albrecht]

Speaking of American TV/film/culture...

I've been told my greatest musical strength lies in my lyrical abilities.

Today's graphic on topic.

Speaking of American media I'm sure you've seen this. (Cue for someone to post "PREDICTIVE PROGRAMMING" conspiracy here.) Of course, this was made when Ebola was already known and as I recall there was an outbreak in Africa.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/the-simpsons-predicted-ebola-outbreak-in-1997-some-people-on-the-internet-actually-believe-9786635.html

[VtaGeezer]

Here's why the right should STFU about banning W African travel.  Its easier to stop Ebola contactees at a handful of relatively small airports in W Africa than at dozens of major international airports across Africa, Asia, and Europe.

[albrecht]

Here's why the right should STFU about banning W African travel.  Its easier to stop Ebola contactees at a handful of relatively small airports in W Africa than at dozens of major international airports across Africa, Asia, and Europe.

Ideally they would be stopped at their departure airport, but it is quite easy to do to prevent them from coming here. Most simple is stop issuing VISAs for travelers and paperwork for immigrants from those infected countries. A few key strokes and that is accomplished. Next flag any American (or person who doesn't need a VISA to enter) whose itinerary, visa stamps, etc show travel to/from an infected country for testing and/or quarantine. A few more keystrokes. Then flag any vessel who has flown into those infected countries from landing at a US airport. A few more keystrokes.

Setting up the testing and/or quarantine would take more than keystrokes but actual people and money. And still won't be 100% effective. But simply because not perfect doesn't mean don't do basic prevention measures!

Also, use the "opportunity" of Ebola to encourage more tele-conferencing, working from home, etc. Less rely on travel for unessential business things. (Hey, that helps save our carbon footprint also. Instead of flying to an anti-Co2 conference Gore Jr et al could video conference!) Don't let this "opportunity go to waste" as they say.

Of course this won't stop anybody or from disease arriving (though similar measures seem to have worked in some African countries already) because they can walk across the open-border and as more of the world gets the disease it will be impossible (and not smart) to ban ALL travel.

[paladin1991]

But not the end of world as you know it..

*shrewd look at the pud, very shrewd look*

[FightTheFuture]

Ideally they would be stopped at their departure airport, but it is quite easy to do to prevent them from coming here. Most simple is stop issuing VISAs for travelers and paperwork for immigrants from those infected countries. A few key strokes and that is accomplished. Next flag any American (or person who doesn't need a VISA to enter) whose itinerary, visa stamps, etc show travel to/from an infected country for testing and/or quarantine. A few more keystrokes. Then flag any vessel who has flown into those infected countries from landing at a US airport. A few more keystrokes.

Setting up the testing and/or quarantine would take more than keystrokes but actual people and money. And still won't be 100% effective. But simply because not perfect doesn't mean don't do basic prevention measures!

Also, use the "opportunity" of Ebola to encourage more tele-conferencing, working from home, etc. Less rely on travel for unessential business things. (Hey, that helps save our carbon footprint also. Instead of flying to an anti-Co2 conference Gore Jr et al could video conference!) Don't let this "opportunity go to waste" as they say.

Of course this won't stop anybody or from disease arriving (though similar measures seem to have worked in some African countries already) because they can walk across the open-border and as more of the world gets the disease it will be impossible (and not smart) to ban ALL travel.

Yep. Ban entry to any person who's visa indicates they have been in any of the affected areas until this crisis is long behind us. It's just sound common freaking sense.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

During the Reagan years, Federal tax receipts nearly doubled, but the Congress spent all of that and more, creating the 'Reagan' deficits.  I wish he'd stood up to them more, but he probably got all he could get.   Being a believer of America, and understanding the need to operate by the rules, he didn't simply announce he had a phone and a pen and start issuing illegal Executive Orders.  Pity.

There you go again.  Reagan issued 381 Exeutive Orders--tenth most on the list. 

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

[albrecht]

There you go again.  Reagan issued 381 Exeutive Orders--tenth most on the list. 

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

Lest we forget Rex 84- amongst other things. Now, it could be argued he (or they behind him) were looking after the country, it was still the Cold War after all and things like Venona Papers, defectors, etc show there was a real threat, but still lots of things done were questionable- at best. At worst, pretty bad. Granted, even at their worst, he had more allegiance, or even just ties, to this country than the current occupant, but people tend to gloss over that period of history. I recall watching C-Span, riveted, during the Iran-Contra hearings and when this happened (live) was one of the first times I thought: Damn, maybe they all really are in on it. (This was back when there were some honest Republicans and still were mainstream, normal Democrats who were concerned about the country not just weird social experimentation or pressure groups.) But to watch a senior Democrat cut off an honest Democrat because it would lead to question about the administrations secret C.O.G.  plan....then the BCCI stuff, INSLAW, etc in which "both sides" seemed determined to cover-up....
REX 84 Brooks-North-Inouye Iran Contra.

[Quick Karl]

Yep. Ban entry to any person who's visa indicates they have been in any of the affected areas until this crisis is long behind us. It's just sound common freaking sense.

Which means that 90% of liberals will refuse to support the idea...

[onan]

Perhaps an ebola quarantine zone at Guantanamo? Win-Win?

[area51drone]

to clarify, none of the ebola threads were deleted.  they were all merged into one (this) thread.

You just mixed gasoline with napalm.   Who knows what's going to happen next!

[albrecht]

You just mixed gasoline with napalm.   Who knows what's going to happen next!

Now I'm not admitting anything but general knowledge widely available. I seem to recall that napalm is g******* mixed with some other stuff (I seem to recall the Steal This Book and Anarchist Cookbook versions) were fairly simple (some g****** add some k******* or d*****l f*** for stability- and some oil/grease a bunch of S****foam.) Better stuff comes from some manuals for improvised exp****** by the military had some better recipes. I'm sure the REAL official govt issue stuff is more complicated and also the dispersal mechanism. But, at the end of the day, you are looking for the inflammability of g******* with "stickiness" and longer burn and stability, this the longer carbon-chain fuels, and a gelling agent. (Or whatever the D.O.D. procures for a likely higher price, of course.)
-edited due for obvious reasons. I'm on enough lists, likely.

[paladin1991]

Now I'm not admitting anything but general knowledge widely available. I seem to recall that napalm is g******* mixed with some other stuff (I seem to recall the Steal This Book and Anarchist Cookbook versions) were fairly simple (some g****** add some k******* or d*****l f*** for stability- and some oil/grease a bunch of S****foam.) Better stuff comes from some manuals for improvised exp****** by the military had some better recipes. I'm sure the REAL official govt issue stuff is more complicated and also the dispersal mechanism. But, at the end of the day, you are looking for the inflammability of g******* with "stickiness" and longer burn and stability, this the longer carbon-chain fuels, and a gelling agent. (Or whatever the D.O.D. procures for a likely higher price, of course.)
-edited due for obvious reasons. I'm on enough lists, likely.

When I was a kid, in Catholic School, my uncle, just back fm the Nam, told me how they would make inprovised Napalm for boobytraps.  They would collect up all the plastic, mix it with gas and some 'other' shit, build a booby and..."Hello Victor Charles!  This is for you!"

[albrecht]

  When I was a kid, in Catholic School, my uncle, just back fm the Nam, told me how they would make inprovised Napalm for boobytraps.  They would collect up all the plastic, mix it with gas and some 'other' shit, build a booby and..."Hello Victor Charles!  This is for you!"

Yep, it aint hard. The issue is the dispersal. Relatively, compared to other IEDs, safe but again it is the dispersal and coverage. That's where the real knowledge comes in and use of air-drops. On the "street" I don't see much gain militarily despite anecdotes from Russia in WWII and various partisan (back when that was a good word, stuff) but tanks were less armored and it was a hell-hole where stuff couldn't move anyway.

Again, nobody try anything and I never did and I don't know anything except public knowledge under the first amendment and declassified information and don't advocate too nor commit any crime. (For Informational or Entertainment (special effects with proper permits) Purposes Only.) This stuff won't stop Ebola--- so don't try it kids. Wash your hands. And don't "exchange fluids" without some serious thought beforehand. Good advice anytime.
-GNS

[paladin1991]

What Albrecht said.

[The General]

Perhaps an ebola quarantine zone at Guantanamo? Win-Win?

Can we just move allll the Ebola to the Middle East?
Then rope it off?  That would solve two problems.

[albrecht]

Can we just move allll the Ebola to the Middle East?
Then rope it off?  That would solve two problems.

at least it could, stop the Muslim mayhem deeper into black Africa, one would hope. But maybe some really, really big fans point North-East could help it out? Take our inefficient wind-farms from Europe, USA, etc.  Reverse polarity and plug them into African nat gas or oil reserves power stations and blow Ebola and the muzzies out of the continent? Also help save birds, like eagles etc and help Africa, perhaps? (Or some C2C researching experts could advice about weather control or HAARP to direct the wind in that direction?)

[PB the Deplorable]

There you go again.  Reagan issued 381 Exeutive Orders--tenth most on the list. 

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

Yes, but how many of them were illegal seizures of power?  Answer:  None - Reagan was an honorable man who believed in his Constitutional role.  It is not the number of Executive Orders that is important, but what they are.

A President is the CEO of the Federal government.  It is his duty to insure his Constitutional role is carried out, and that previous and current legislation passed by Congress and signed into law is implemented and enforced. 

Executive Orders are supposed to be about how (NOT which) certain laws are enforced and to what extent, defining and refining policy choices in the implementation of broadly worded statutes, policy choices made when certain acts of Congress specifically delegate discretionary powers to the office of the President, etc.  And for dealing with emergencies, including National Security and Wartime hostilities issues that can't wait for Congress to deliberate. 

For the most part, it is not dissimilar to the various agencies issuing regulations in interpreting lawfully enacted legislation.


What Executive Orders are NOT are attempts to legislate from the White House.  The President is NOT to bypass Congress's role in passing legislation, period.  That is tyranny, dictatorship, abuse of power - call it what you will, and not the purpose of Executive Orders,

Executive Orders themselves are not illegal, only ones that go beyond power delegated to the President.  It is not a numbers game.  It isn't an illegal practice that a President gets to use a certain amount of times.

Executive Orders are subject to Congressional and Judicial review.  Something other Presidents have respected, but not this one.


Whoever is simply putting out the number of Executive Orders by President and comparing those raw numbers between Obama and others, like Reagan, are lying by omission if they did not include this information. 



For the specific case of Immigration 'reform', as threatened by Obama. 

US Constitution, Article I, Section 8, Clause 4:

The Congress shall have Power To...Establish an (sic) uniform Rule of Naturalization...

The Congress.


Any and all of Obama's decree's to date and in the future regarding immigrants and immigration are illegal and cause for Impeachment (add it to the pile).  He knows this.  He also knows it is a wedge issue done in order to build the Democrat Party by issuing handouts in the form of residency and citizenship (and once here, the regular handouts). 

Just another destructive and slimy move by this person.  Party before Country, just like the rest of the Democrat 'Leadership'.

[Lt.Uhura]

This very question has been asked here and elsewhere over the past few weeks.  From someone who works in the ER, I think this ERMD was spot-on in many of his points.  Some readers saw his article as "making excuses", which is easy to say from the cosy perch behind one's computer far removed from the reality a busy Emergency Department.  Honestly, on any given day in ERs across the US, conditions are often surreal beyond even seasoned ER staff's comprehension...
As recently as late August, the hospital where I work sent out a memo mentioning the outbreak in West Africa, but clearly downplayed the fact that we would ever encounter it here in the US. 

Keep in mind hospitals are now primarily corporate run "non-profits".  Many at the top of this pyramid are MBAs with little-to-no training in medicine whatsoever.  Generic business models designed for cheap efficiency like a SpeeDee Oil Change, can't be adapted to the care of human beings in life and death situations. 


***
An ER missed Ebola. Here’s how it could happen to you.
Edwin Leap,  MD

How did the emergency department staff of a Texas hospital see, and discharge, a patient infected with Ebola? Despite the fact that blame spreads through hospitals faster than hemorrhagic fever viruses, I’m not interested in pinning down a single person, or a single thing, which may have allowed that to happen. I am very interested, however, in offering a few insights into what combination of factors might make it easy to send home a West African with a fever, without establishing the fact that he had a dangerous, contagious disease which finally caused his death.

First of all, America’s emergency departments are straining to keep up with the volume of patients that come through their doors. In 2010, the number of visits in the U.S. was 129.8 million, according to the CDC. This numbers rises every year, despite the belief that the Affordable Care Act would direct people to primary care doctors and away from the ER.

The emergency departments of America bear the brunt of trauma, poisonings and drug abuse, of chronic diseases and social drama. They hold suicidal and psychotic patients for days to weeks when there is no other option available. An Ebola victim, with general, initial symptoms of fever, chills, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain and headache, is a small needle in a big hay pile of feverish, vomiting, suffering humanity.

Furthermore, many people with insurance (including Medicaid and Medicare) can’t find doctors, and large numbers who had insurance before subsequently lost it in the reshuffling of health benefits that has been going on since the ACA was passed. The emergency department is often all they have.

Second, it’s getting much, much harder to focus on that pesky but ubiquitous feature of the modern hospital, the patient. There is data to enter (which keeps nurses and physicians more focused on screens than adolescent boys playing on their Xbox). The electronic medical records systems are unfortunately complex and rarely intuitive. They require so much information that often, relevant points like “fever and came from West Africa,” can be lost in the midst of endless time stamps, and required fields like “feels safe at home,” “denies suicidal thoughts” and “bed rails up, call light at bedside.”

Also, there are rules to follow to avoid censure. There are metrics to measure: time to stroke treatment, time to the cardiac cath lab for heart attacks, time from lobby to room, time from triage to doctor, time to discharge and many more; all of them contributing to the Holy Grail of modern health care, the high patient satisfaction score. (Which is being increasingly tied to job security and reimbursement, despite the bad science involved in the process.) Who has time to focus on a single, sick patient when so much depends on screens, rules and data entry?

Third, the rules for admission are ever more complex, based on what Medicare, Medicaid and private insurers are willing to cover. Patients we admitted without question ten years ago are now sent home and told to “come back if you get worse.” In fact, it’s so hard to admit people that I now send home patients I would never have discharged, simply to avoid the misery of explaining the problem to already over-taxed hospitalists who are themselves constrained hand and foot by impossible rules. In this milieu, an otherwise healthy man with a fever is barely a blip.

I know this because earlier this year I was working in a teaching hospital and called the infectious disease specialist on call. My patient had just returned from a mission trip to the Caribbean and had a high white blood cell count, a fever, chills and rash. I was curious if I should have any particular exotic concerns. The specialist’s annoyed answer was this: “Sounds like he has a virus. He needs to see his family doctor this week.”

Now that we have Ebola in the U.S. we are reminded that we in medicine, on the front lines, might miss something important. The medical pundits are wagging fingers and lecturing everyone about how best to manage this crisis. (Lecturing, that is, from the relative calm and safety of television studios, rather than the in the mind-numbing chaos of the ER.)

I agree. We need a plan. But the system, as it stands, functions every day on the very razor’s edge of disaster. We need to address that fact if we’re going to have any hope of dealing with Ebola, or other disasters, in the future.

Edwin Leap is an emergency physician who blogs at edwinleap.com and is the author of The Practice Test and Life in Emergistan.

[area51drone]

As of this evening, zero word spoken to my family members regarding ebola at their hospital jobs.  One of them works the emergency room directly with patients in actual medical care (not a desk job) - she is literally on the front lines.   This is a very good sized hospital, not some rinky dink operation in a small town.   WTF.

[Yorkshire pud]

This very question has been asked here and elsewhere over the past few weeks.  From someone who works in the ER, I think this ERMD was spot-on in many of his points.  Some readers saw his article as "making excuses", which is easy to say from the cosy perch behind one's computer far removed from the reality a busy Emergency Department.  Honestly, on any given day in ERs across the US, conditions are often surreal beyond even seasoned ER staff's comprehension...
As recently as late August, the hospital where I work sent out a memo mentioning the outbreak in West Africa, but clearly downplayed the fact that we would ever encounter it here in the US. 

The medical pundits are wagging fingers and lecturing everyone about how best to manage this crisis. (Lecturing, that is, from the relative calm and safety of television studios, rather than the in the mind-numbing chaos of the ER.)

A few on here too.

I agree. We need a plan. But the system, as it stands, functions every day on the very razor’s edge of disaster. We need to address that fact if we’re going to have any hope of dealing with Ebola, or other disasters, in the future.

Edwin Leap is an emergency physician who blogs at edwinleap.com and is the author of The Practice Test and Life in Emergistan.

It's why those who go into medicine are treated as the bottom of the pile when it comes to care. It's driven by money, not need. Insurance companies decide what is and isn't a priority. Because insurance company execs are all doctors, in the same way they're mechanics when it comes to car insurance*.


*No not really. 

[Yorkshire pud]

As of this evening, zero word spoken to my family members regarding ebola at their hospital jobs.  One of them works the emergency room directly with patients in actual medical care (not a desk job) - she is literally on the front lines.   This is a very good sized hospital, not some rinky dink operation in a small town.   WTF.

Maybe they have too many drug addicts, gunshot victims, car crash victims, drunks, and orthopaedic patients to deal with, rather than a remote possibility of catching Ebola?

[PB the Deplorable]

As of this evening, zero word spoken to my family members regarding ebola at their hospital jobs.  One of them works the emergency room directly with patients in actual medical care (not a desk job) - she is literally on the front lines.   This is a very good sized hospital, not some rinky dink operation in a small town.   WTF.

Having observed the incompetence of this Administration 6 years in, odds are the CDC has not issued protocols to the medical care facilities

After all, no much more than a week ago we were being told Ebola wouldn't come here.