Ebola

[PB the Deplorable]

Yeah, because who could have imagined that someone displaying symptoms of Ebola, and who told the hospital he'd just came from a country where there's an outbreak of Ebola, under the current climate of hysteria over Ebola... who could ever have thought to test him for Ebola?

Not the hospital's fault.

I lol'ed.

Maybe if the President had been doing his job for once, had been doing something to benefit the country for once, people wouldn't be flying here from Ebola zones. 

Oh, oh, wait - this is really Rick Perry's fault.  He should have been guarding against Ebola flying in, and personally monitored every person who went into a hospital in Texas.  Or something.

[Kelt]

Maybe if the President had been doing his job for once, had been doing something to benefit the country for once, people wouldn't be flying here from Ebola zones.

You know, you're right... Obama should be micromanaging the entire country to the degree that he personally makes sure everyone's doing their job to a competent degree.

The only possible alternative to that is blanket quarantine.

[PB the Deplorable]

You know, you're right... Obama should be micromanaging the entire country to the degree that he personally makes sure everyone's doing their job to a competent degree.

The only possible alternative to that is blanket quarantine.

Yes, there should have been a complete quarantine of the 3 countries involved.

Since their are limits to what our President can do outside this country, he should have started by denying passengers originating from there entry to the US.  At the connecting airport, they should be denied boarding.

The governor of Texas doesn't have that authority, but the President of the US does.


But, you know, 'never let a good crisis go to waste', as his former Chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel once said

[Kelt]

Just as a matter of interest. and "I don't care" or variations thereof aren't an answer, as a matter of interest, how many countries have put a blanket quarantine on Liberia, Sierra Leone, or Guinea?

How often is a blanket quarantine placed on countries which have outbreaks of far more deadly contagions like the Flu?

And how does a blanket quarantine stop someone from Liberia flying to another country and getting on a connecting flight, which people do all the time?

[albrecht]

Yes, there should have been a complete quarantine of the 3 countries involved.

Since their are limits to what our President can do outside this country, he should have started by denying passengers originating from there entry to the US.  At the connecting airport, they should be denied boarding.

The governor of Texas doesn't have that authority, but the President of the US does.

I don't buy the conspiracy theories abounding on the web and alternative radio but do think, in a twisted way, Obama really doesn't mind Ebola reaching the USA- particularly Texas. Just as his open-border policies and illegal alien dumping targets States that didn't vote for him he probably didn't do rational, basic procedures to protect from Ebola for several reasons. Likely, in his mind it is only fair that those evil Americans get their share of the disease...why should only Africans get it after all? And it would be racist to try to quarantine a country or to "profile" passengers.

[Kelt]

 

I don't buy the conspiracy theories abounding on the web and alternative radio but do think, in a twisted way, Obama really doesn't mind Ebola reaching the USA- particularly Texas. Just as his open-border policies and illegal alien dumping targets States that didn't vote for him he probably didn't do rational, basic procedures to protect from Ebola for several reasons. Likely, in his mind it is only fair that those evil Americans get their share of the disease...why should only Africans get it after all? And it would be racist to try to quarantine a country or to "profile" passengers.

[Yorkshire pud]

I don't buy the conspiracy theories abounding on the web and alternative radio but do think, in a twisted way, Obama really doesn't mind Ebola reaching the USA- particularly Texas. Just as his open-border policies and illegal alien dumping targets States that didn't vote for him he probably didn't do rational, basic procedures to protect from Ebola for several reasons. Likely, in his mind it is only fair that those evil Americans get their share of the disease...why should only Africans get it after all? And it would be racist to try to quarantine a country or to "profile" passengers.

Wow. That's some heavy shit you're on. Deep breaths. With air this time.

[VtaGeezer]

I don't buy the conspiracy theories abounding on the web and alternative radio but do think, in a twisted way, Obama really doesn't mind Ebola reaching the USA- particularly Texas. Just as his open-border policies and illegal alien dumping targets States that didn't vote for him he probably didn't do rational, basic procedures to protect from Ebola for several reasons. Likely, in his mind it is only fair that those evil Americans get their share of the disease...why should only Africans get it after all? And it would be racist to try to quarantine a country or to "profile" passengers.

Behold, the conservative mind at work. 

[Kelt]

Behold, the conservative mind at work.

"I don't buy the conspiracy theories... but now I shall detail how I believe Obama and the Liberals and the Leftist Media and the Evildoers* are probably intent on killing Americans."

Yup...


*Anyone not 100% politically aligned with me

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Just as a matter of interest. and "I don't care" or variations thereof aren't an answer, as a matter of interest, how many countries have put a blanket quarantine on Liberia, Sierra Leone, or Guinea?

"Despite calls from international health organizations not to restrict travel or trade to West Africa, on April 1, Saudi Arabia ceased issuing hajj visas to residents of Guinea and Liberia. Some neighboring African nations closed their borders, and others, including South Africa and Kenya, restricted and in some cases outright banned travel to and from countries affected by the deadly virus. Later in the summer, a number of airlines â€" including Kenya Airways, British Airways, Air Côte d’Ivoire, Arik and Asky â€" discontinued air travel in and out of the region, and many others greatly cut back on their flights."

[also]

"Experts say this trust is key to stemming the outbreak, which grew as it did in part because of lack of trust in government at the outset. Jeffrey Stern, reporting for Vanity Fair, traveled to a remote Guinean village believed to be the source of the current outbreak, and he found that to villagers there, isolation centers were “fearsome places” where “relatives or friends went in and then you lost them.” The health care workers and their procedures seemed so foreign that some villagers even began to believe the workers in full-body yellow protective suits were harvesting the bodies of the locals.

Fears bred by this lack of knowledge led families to hide their sick. In a few cases locals have responded violently, attacking health care workers.

“Coercive measures, such as laws criminalizing the failure to report suspected cases and forced quarantines, are driving people underground, pushing the sick away from health systems,” Joanne Liu, the international president of Doctors Without Borders, said recently at a United Nations special briefing on Ebola. “These measures have served only to breed fear and unrest rather than contain the virus.”"

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/10/10/experts-isolatingebolaaffectednationscouldworsenoutbreak.html

And how does a blanket quarantine stop someone from Liberia flying to another country and getting on a connecting flight, which people do all the time?

First, the airlines are supposed to enforce travel restrictions at the ticket counter.  Anyone traveling from Liberia after a certain date, via any route, would be turned away at US Immigration.  So they screen out these people before they board the plane.

I think your point is that no system would be airtight, and if so I would agree.  I don't think that's a good enough reason not to try.

[Kelt]

"Despite calls from international health organizations not to restrict travel or trade to West Africa, on April 1, Saudi Arabia ceased issuing hajj visas to residents of Guinea and Liberia. Some neighboring African nations closed their borders, and others, including South Africa and Kenya, restricted and in some cases outright banned travel to and from countries affected by the deadly virus. Later in the summer, a number of airlines â€" including Kenya Airways, British Airways, Air Côte d’Ivoire, Arik and Asky â€" discontinued air travel in and out of the region, and many others greatly cut back on their flights."

So then practically no-one.

First, the airlines are supposed to enforce travel restrictions at the ticket counter.  Anyone traveling from Liberia after a certain date, via any route, would be turned away at US Immigration.  So they screen out these people before they board the plane.

I think your point is that no system would be airtight, and if so I would agree.  I don't think that's a good enough reason not to try.

My point is that if someone is determined to go to America or Britain or France or wherever they can drive across an international border, take a train across an international border, walk across an international border and hail a cab, and go straight to an airport.  And for a disease that only really spreads via close, physical contact, it's hardly that much of a threat.   Even for the very few cases that will get through you can quarantine the individual... assuming a greater level of competence than Texans have... with minimal fuss or risk.

We don't quarantine the Indian subcontinent every time they have an outbreak of plague, but then westerners don't roll around in their own shit or live with rats (generally) so the chances of catching Plague is minimal.

Sure, we could shut down all travel in and out of West Africa, but is it really necessary?

[PB the Deplorable]

... Sure, we could shut down all travel in and out of West Africa, but is it really necessary?

Not if YOU don't die from it I guess.

Turns out even African and Arab dictators care more about their countries and have more common sense than Obama does and has

[PB the Deplorable]

Wow. That's some heavy shit you're on. Deep breaths. With air this time.

It does explain some otherwise inexplicable policies. 

Everything this guy touches turns to shit, maybe it's just a coincidence?

[area51drone]

The head of the CDC claims that the reason why we can't restrict travel is because it makes it harder for us to our aid workers out when they need to get out.   BULLSHIT.   If they can fly the military in and out, they can fly the aid workers in and out.   Something *is* fishy about this whole thing.   My guess is it has more to do with politics and military control.   There must be something we need from this area (oil, maybe some other resource) that they're walking a fine line with the respective governments.   At some point they will have to close these countries off because the political pressure from within the US will grow and force the government's hand.

[albrecht]

It does explain some otherwise inexplicable policies. 

Everything this guy touches turns to shit, maybe it's just a coincidence?

I don't buy the media's explanations that Obama is simply incompetent or unqualified. Or just more addicted to golf or White House shindigs and vacations or that he has "given up" as some of his former colleagues seem to have alleged. Well, certainly he is unqualified simply because of his mysterious background (that what has been made public) but he is not simply stupid or incompetent. He just has another agenda, which is not to look after the country or its people but to undermine it at every turn, and he seems to be succeeding in that. The policies, or lack thereof, can easily be explained if one looks at it from his perspective: one of a great resentment towards Western Civilization and culture, anger at a great number of the American people, and a fundamental disagreement with the ideas behind our Constitution.

[Kelt]

Not if YOU don't die from it I guess.

Turns out even African and Arab dictators care more about their countries and have more common sense than Obama does and has

Oh, that Obama... and the communist atheist liberal media.

amirite?

[Scully]

See the Art Bell sticky thread for Art's 2 Facebook posts re ebola a few days ago.
:

[VtaGeezer]

I'm kind of surprised that Bell would say what he did.  Exactly ONE recorded case of a traveler accidentally carrying Ebola outside W Africa, and the hysteria and demands shut down free travel are pretty f'ing amazing.

[FightTheFuture]

I'm sure being uninsured had no bearing on his treatment. Sure I am.

When he came in the second time, the information about his Liberian connection came to light. He was then afforded the best care in the world. Administered experimental drugs; hundreds of thousands of dollars of treatment. And guess what, he was still uninsured.

Fear not, I feel reasonably  certain your liberal friends at  the Jesse Jackson rainbow coalition, will soon file a lawsuit against the hospital, the doctors, the administrators, the nurses, the custodians, the ambulance drivers, and anybody else even tangentially connected to this whole sad incident.

[VtaGeezer]

When he came in the second time, the information about his Liberian connection came to light. He was then afforded the best care in the world. Administered experimental drugs; hundreds of thousands of dollars of treatment. And guess what, he was still uninsured.

Fear not, I feel reasonably  certain your liberal friends at  the Jesse Jackson rainbow coalition, will soon file a lawsuit against the hospital, the doctors, the administrators, the nurses, the custodians, the ambulance drivers, and anybody else even tangentially connected to this whole sad incident.

His origin in Liberia did "come up", but was ignored by a bonehead admitting nurse too jaded to put two and two together.  He didn't "come in" to the hospital the second time; he was brought by an ambulance after his nephew called the CDC and told them he was down with fever and diarrhea and had recently arrived from Monrovia, and oh yeah...that hospital sent him home 48 hours earlier with a bottle of antibiotics.  If he were your relative, you'd have called a lawyer before the corpse was cold.

I do agree Jesse Jackson should stay the hell out of it if for no other reason than he's like a red flag in front of right wingers even when he's right.

[Yorkshire pud]

When he came in the second time, the information about his Liberian connection came to light. He was then afforded the best care in the world. Administered experimental drugs; hundreds of thousands of dollars of treatment. And guess what, he was still uninsured.

Fear not, I feel reasonably  certain your liberal friends at  the Jesse Jackson rainbow coalition, will soon file a lawsuit against the hospital, the doctors, the administrators, the nurses, the custodians, the ambulance drivers, and anybody else even tangentially connected to this whole sad incident.

I would put good money on your 'opinion' being very different if the state the hospital was in was Democrat. This is a notifiable desease; the hospital didn't do it's job properly, and almost certainly their actions would have been very different if the guy had had insurance. Unless of course Ebola is an arbitor in TX over who has and hasn't health insurance? No-one is saying it's easy to positively identify it (it presents the same as flu), but this is what happens when people aren't switched on.

[PB the Deplorable]

His origin in Liberia did "come up", but was ignored by a bonehead admitting nurse too jaded to put two and two together...

So it wasn't Bushes' fault after all

... I do agree Jesse Jackson should stay the hell out of it if for no other reason than he's like a red flag in front of right wingers even when he's right.

And when is that?

[onan]

Perry can't sepll ebola. He also has little if any authority to manage health care from anything other than the slow moving legislative policy. The hospital did nothing wrong from a motivational point. Ethically the patient was seen and thought stabillzed. Not taking into account he was from west Africa was more than likely an oversight and not some malicious "I hope he dies" scenario. Emergency rooms are compelled by law to "stabilize" any patient seeking treatment. Stabilize, however is a rather gray area. Especially with nausea and malaise. Again, granted, west Africa is a large oops, I wonder how many here working in an ER, probably an extended and maybe a double shift, along with several other crises co-occurring wouldn't potentially make the same error.

[albrecht]

I'm sure being uninsured had no bearing on his treatment. Sure I am.

Why was he allowed in the country? We should have a policy, like some other countries do, that you need to prove available funds to leave, a return ticket, and that you have health insurance coverage (even if bought a temporary travel health insurance) prior to allowing him to visit and granting the VISA. Also, in many countries you need to show you've had certain vaccinations (yellow fever is the most common one) to visit. Yet, we don't even screen (until recently) for people with passports coming in from known Ebola outbreak countries? Or require financial responsibility of said traveler? Why are we even granting VISAs to such people from known outbreak countries with no visible means of insurance? At least screen them!

[Yorkshire pud]

Why was he allowed in the country? We should have a policy, like some other countries do, that you need to prove available funds to leave, a return ticket, and that you have health insurance coverage (even if bought a temporary travel health insurance) prior to allowing him to visit and granting the VISA.

Or you could simply have a health service that is fit for purpose for all, irrespective of personal wealth?

Also, in many countries you need to show you've had certain vaccinations (yellow fever is the most common one) to visit. Yet, we don't even screen (until recently) for people with passports coming in from known Ebola outbreak countries?

About this Ebola vaccine.....

Or require financial responsibility of said traveler? Why are we even granting VISAs to such people from known outbreak countries with no visible means of insurance? At least screen them!

Because yours (and pretty much the rest of the world too-as far as I know) doesn't have a Visa stipulation that you need it; I grant you it's silly not to do so, as having a bill for $60000 when you get home isn't the best end to a holiday. It still doesn't address that he wasn't presenting with symptoms (because he had none) until two weeks after his return from Liberia. How dare a virus not make it's host's forehead light up in neon 'Ebola, watch out!' straight away.

[area51drone]

Perry can't sepll ebola. He also has little if any authority to manage health care from anything other than the slow moving legislative policy. The hospital did nothing wrong from a motivational point. Ethically the patient was seen and thought stabillzed. Not taking into account he was from west Africa was more than likely an oversight and not some malicious "I hope he dies" scenario. Emergency rooms are compelled by law to "stabilize" any patient seeking treatment. Stabilize, however is a rather gray area. Especially with nausea and malaise. Again, granted, west Africa is a large oops, I wonder how many here working in an ER, probably an extended and maybe a double shift, along with several other crises co-occurring wouldn't potentially make the same error.

Agreed.     Mistakes happen all the time.  Pretty recently at a local hospital, a feeding tube was incorrectly inserted into a man's lung instead of his stomach, and no one caught it until it was too late.  A doctor was the one who caught the mistake, but another doctor was supposed to have signed off on it after the nurse had done the procedure.   The guy ended up dying.  Lame lame lame to make such a stupid error, and I'm sure it's going to cost the hospital millions.   But this shit happens all the time.

But things ARE getting political.  Dems are blaming the GOP for this mess now..

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/10/13/ad_blames_gop_budget_cuts_for_ebola_outbreak.html

Personally, I will blame the CDC and the President if this gets out of control.  He has the power to do something if he sees the need. 

[Yorkshire pud]

Agreed.     Mistakes happen all the time.  Pretty recently at a local hospital, a feeding tube was incorrectly inserted into a man's lung instead of his stomach, and no one caught it until it was too late.  A doctor was the one who caught the mistake, but another doctor was supposed to have signed off on it after the nurse had done the procedure.   The guy ended up dying.  Lame lame lame to make such a stupid error, and I'm sure it's going to cost the hospital millions.   But this shit happens all the time.

But things ARE getting political.  Dems are blaming the GOP for this mess now..

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/10/13/ad_blames_gop_budget_cuts_for_ebola_outbreak.html

Personally, I will blame the CDC and the President if this gets out of control.  He has the power to do something if he sees the need.

Is this the same President who is blamed because he can't stop interfering where he has no expertise? I didn't know he was a pandemic expert now. As for getting out of control; ina  country like the USA, unlikely. It might have little outbreaks over the coming few months with a dozen or so, but it won't be like west Africa, because by and large you have more than one doctor per 100000 of the population; at least basic sanitary conditions, clean water (and soap), and a non faith driven approach to medicine.


Although... you do have Steve Quayle and CT's who will say it's deliberate. That might screw it, because you have enough that will believe that shit and will go out and buy bio suits and extra ammunition waiting for Alex Jones to tell them when to defend the country... Then it could get bad.

[wr250]

Is this the same President who is blamed because he can't stop interfering where he has no expertise? I didn't know he was a pandemic expert now. As for getting out of control; ina  country like the USA, unlikely. It might have little outbreaks over the coming few months with a dozen or so, but it won't be like west Africa, because by and large you have more than one doctor per 100000 of the population; at least basic sanitary conditions, clean water (and soap), and a non faith driven approach to medicine.


Although... you do have Steve Quayle and CT's who will say it's deliberate. That might screw it, because you have enough that will believe that shit and will go out and buy bio suits and extra ammunition waiting for Alex Jones to tell them when to defend the country... Then it could get bad.

[sarcasm]
but hey ebola will spread quickly among the meth community, maybe we could be rid of the tweaker zombies?
[/sarcasm]

[albrecht]

Or you could simply have a health service that is fit for purpose for all, irrespective of personal wealth?

About this Ebola vaccine.....

Because yours (and pretty much the rest of the world too-as far as I know) doesn't have a Visa stipulation that you need it; I grant you it's silly not to do so, as having a bill for $60000 when you get home isn't the best end to a holiday. It still doesn't address that he wasn't presenting with symptoms (because he had none) until two weeks after his return from Liberia. How dare a virus not make it's host's forehead light up in neon 'Ebola, watch out!' straight away.

So the NHS covers anyone world-wide who travels to the UK for free? Ebola guy wasn't a US citizen. Interesting, the NHS claims they don't, liar. "Non-UK residents will also be charged for hospital treatments. If you are an overseas visitor to the UK you may be charged for some treatments and, depending on how urgent it is, you will usually have to pay in advance."
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-visitors/Pages/accessing-nhs-services.aspx

The ebola guy got coverage and, as of right now, hasn't paid anything towards it. (Interestingly your NHS says "usually have to pay in advance.") The mistake of turning away by the nurse and hospital was a bad one, especially in light of his color and place of origin but, it could be also, the nurse was afraid of "racial profiling" in addition to bad diagnosis. Rest assured, lawyers are already looking at lawsuits, sigh, because that, of course, is the way to solve problems here.

The UK doesn't check travelers or VISAs? I recall having to prove financial responsibility (insurance also) to get a Schengen VISA. I recall getting stamped on my passport ("LEAVE TO ENTER FOR SIX MONTHS EMPLOYMENT AND PUBLIC FUNDS PROHIBITED") when entering the UK as a tourist.

The yellow-fever vaccine requirement, and financial responsibility requirements, was just an example that even 3rd world countries have more sense when it comes to immigration and traveler control than the US does. We know there is an outbreak in the country. Flag anyone traveling from that country for special screening or, better yet, don't grant any VISAs from anyone from that country.

[VtaGeezer]

There's been precisely ONE recorded case, worldwide, of a traveler accidentally carrying Ebola outside W Africa, and the hysteria is breathtaking.  I fully expect to hear demands from one of the Tea Party lunatics in Congress for no-fly zone around W. Africa any time.  As I said a few days ago; I believe we're in Thomas Duncan's debt for unwittingly being the test case for an overconfident US health establishment that fell flat on its ass at almost all levels with the first unannounced US Ebola case; one that they had every reason to be on high alert for.