President Donald J. Trump

[GravitySucks]

How do I tell you this... no wall is going to be built.

If Trump gets elected and the wall doesn't get built, I will do everything in my power to make sure the next election replaces those that are blocking it.

Today it is the law of the land. Slowly, but surely, the people have been speaking and replacing democrats and RINOs in congress that refuse to take action.

I have faith the wall will get built if Trump is elected.

[CornyCrow]

I didn't find it interesting. None of the choices they studied included building a wall.

It is assumes allowing illegal immigrants to remain in the US is beneficial. It totally discounts the fact that it is against the law.

It does not adequately account for the costs to our society for having lawless illegal immigrants in our midst.

It's beneficial for businesses, but the taxpayers must pay the costs.  It takes between $7k and $9k annually to educate one none-English speaking child.  Hospitals have closed down because of the invading hoard. 

[onan]

If Trump gets elected and the wall doesn't get built, I will do everything in my power to make sure the next election replaces those that are blocking it.

Today it is the law of the land. Slowly, but surely, the people have been speaking and replacing democrats and RINOs in congress that refuse to take action.

I have faith the wall will get built if Trump is elected.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engineer-explains-why-trumps-wall-is-so-implausible/

[GravitySucks]

http://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engineer-explains-why-trumps-wall-is-so-implausible/

I will let albrecht take over from here. You live as far from a border as you can get in the US, and yet you feel the need to carry a gun in your car and one strapped to your waist. How do you think people living in border states feel?

I will never change your mind, you will never change mine. Having a secure southern border has been the law of the land for 15 years, but we have not had a leader that was committed to making that happen.

[onan]

I will let albrecht take over from here. You live as far from a border as you can get in the US, and yet you feel the need to carry a gun in your car and one strapped to your waist. How do you think people living in border states feel?

I will never change your mind, you will never change mine. Having a secure southern border has been the law of the land for 15 years, but we have not had a leader that was committed to making that happen.

You make a valid point. I more often than not, do not carry a weapon. The reason I have a concealed carry license is due entirely to the fact that unless you have a CC permit it is illegal to purchase a handgun without a several day wait.

I have had the opportunity to pull my weapon once. In stead, I drove off.

I lived in Phoenix for 12 years. I was never bothered by illegal aliens. I was once, rather my daughter (at the age 2) was accosted by a drunk with twin 45's because she dropped her ice cream cone on his boot. That is the reason I carry, if I choose to, by the way.

[SciFiAuthor]

And Biebber?  He would make an awesome VP or running mate for almost any of the candidates.  Attract the "millennial" vote.

I think we all agree that he needs to be deported to Mexico.

[GravitySucks]

It's beneficial for businesses, but the taxpayers must pay the costs.  It takes between $7k and $9k annually to educate one none-English speaking child.  Hospitals have closed down because of the invading hoard.

The following numbers are in 2010 dollars. The chart was taken from the rather lengthy study located here: http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/05/the-fiscal-cost-of-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-to-the-us-taxpayer

If the wall and deportation costs less than $6 Trillion it is cheaper than amnesty.

[SciFiAuthor]

http://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engineer-explains-why-trumps-wall-is-so-implausible/

Bad article written for liberals to squeal with glee at. It assumes that the wall needs to cover the entire border, which Trump states it does not because of natural barriers. Further much of the cited proofs are misrepresented, such as melting down four Nimitz aircraft carriers for the rebar. That's not that much steel. Sounds like it, but it really isn't. More or less 5 high-rise buildings worth, and that's assuming you need to use concrete at all, which you don't.

[onan]

Bad article written for liberals to squeal with glee at. It assumes that the wall needs to cover the entire border, which Trump states it does not because of natural barriers. Further much of the cited proofs are misrepresented, such as melting down four Nimitz aircraft carriers for the rebar. That's not that much steel. Sounds like it, but it really isn't. More or less 5 high-rise buildings worth, and that's assuming you need to use concrete at all, which you don't.

So, your point is building the wall, now re-evaluated at 1000 miles is easy?

To add, I think those metaphors work well to explain how much of an item is needed. Numbers are often bewildering to translate to volume.

[SciFiAuthor]

So, your point is building the wall, now re-evaluated at 1000 miles is easy?

To add, I think those metaphors work well to explain how much of an item is needed. Numbers are often bewildering to translate to volume.

Yes, you live in a country where you can drive from Maine to Oregon using multiple different highways all made with rebar. Those did not magically appear, they were built and maintained.

[GravitySucks]

Yes, you live in a country where you can drive from Maine to Oregon using multiple different highways all made with rebar. Those did not magically appear, they were built and maintained.

Just the portion of I-10 that is in Texas is 875 miles long. Much off that was built over the same type of landscape as the border. It was built in the 1960s.

[SciFiAuthor]

Just the portion of I-10 that is in Texas is 875 miles long. Much off that was built over the same type of landscape as the border. It was built in the 1960s.

Indeed. To the structural engineer that wrote the article the US interstate highway system is impossible and cannot exist.

[onan]

Yes, you live in a country where you can drive from Maine to Oregon using multiple different highways all made with rebar. Those did not magically appear, they were built and maintained.

I agree. Rebar is easy to find. That is a good deal of rebar, none the less. The logistics of getting it to location are interesting. The article makes several good points about logistics which include distributing rebar, as well as the other components. It also references a comparative of building a road "pretty much" around the world with the same amount of materials. And yes, it does take the conversation out of the dry "facts only" realm. But it doesn't go to the level of whiny. Can a wall be built? Sure, will it be effective? I am betting a resounding no. Will the costs be a bunch more than touted and paid for by the US? I am betting a resounding yes.

[SciFiAuthor]

I agree. Rebar is easy to find. That is a good deal of rebar, none the less. The logistics of getting it to location are interesting. The article makes several good points about logistics which include distributing rebar, as well as the other components. It also references a comparative of building a road "pretty much" around the world with the same amount of materials. And yes, it does take the conversation out of the dry "facts only" realm. But it doesn't go to the level of whiny. Can a wall be built? Sure, will it be effective? I am betting a resounding no. Will the costs be a bunch more than touted and paid for by the US? I am betting a resounding yes.

Personally, I'd just do it with razor wire like Hungary did on a lark when the refugee crisis began. They razor wired their border in like a month. It appears to be mostly effective.

[GravitySucks]

Personally, I'd just do it with razor wire like Hungary did on a lark when the refugee crisis began. They razor wired their border in like a month.

99% of the route has already had the land procured/reserved, and much of it is already surveyed, prepared and leveled based on the poor excuse of the porous fence that was started and never finished. They didn't have any problems getting the steel in place for the porous fence.

I don't know which politician was bought off to leave the gaps.

[CornyCrow]

I agree. Rebar is easy to find. That is a good deal of rebar, none the less. The logistics of getting it to location are interesting. The article makes several good points about logistics which include distributing rebar, as well as the other components. It also references a comparative of building a road "pretty much" around the world with the same amount of materials. And yes, it does take the conversation out of the dry "facts only" realm. But it doesn't go to the level of whiny. Can a wall be built? Sure, will it be effective? I am betting a resounding no. Will the costs be a bunch more than touted and paid for by the US? I am betting a resounding yes.

I think it would be much less expensive to just dry up their jobs.  We don't really need a wall, just remove the incentive that brings them here. 

[SciFiAuthor]

99% of the route has already had the land procured/reserved, and much of it is already surveyed, prepared and leveled based on the poor excuse of the porous fence that was started and never finished. They didn't have any problems getting the steel in place for the porous fence.

I don't know which politician was bought off to leave the gaps.

It's my understanding that the reason it wasn't finished was because of an environmental impact study lol. Wonder who got paid off there?

[GravitySucks]

I think it would be much less expensive to just dry up their jobs.  We don't really need a wall, just remove the incentive that brings them here.

We still need a secure border. There are unfriendly people that want to do us harm.

Mexico does not control their southern border. It is not just Mexicans crossing the border illegally.

And drying up the jobs is not going to do any good unless we have the backbone to cutoff all welfare, social services, and begin deporting them.

[FightTheFuture]

Looks like the ol` Hamiliton Rule will come into play this November for millions of Republicans. Well, that`s if The Clown is the nominee and we avoid his threat of riots if he isn`t the nominee.

[onan]

Just the portion of I-10 that is in Texas is 875 miles long. Much off that was built over the same type of landscape as the border. It was built in the 1960s.

And that is 6 to 8 million dollars per mile. And lucky enough to have companies that are capable of doing that kind of work. Not to say, that something similar couldn't work, but the logistics wouldn't be the same.

That also has a system in place for repairs (although, not often seen in many areas).

Ya know I looked for supportive articles to see it from the "other side", I didn't find any. Granted, in total I spent less than 10 minutes, but I did look.

I have walked about two miles of the border. It was when I was camping with friends in Kofa National Park. They ain't having an easy time building a wall there.

[CornyCrow]

We still need a secure border. There are unfriendly people that want to do us harm.

Mexico does not control their southern border. It is not just Mexicans crossing the border illegally.

And drying up the jobs is not going to do any good unless we have the backbone to cutoff all welfare, social services, and begin deporting them.

and retroactively remove anchor babies. 

[GravitySucks]

and retroactively remove anchor babies.

We will never repeal or interpret the 14th amendment correctly with the justice system we have today. The best we can do is deport the underage ones with their parents, to keep from splitting up the families, and then allow them to return once they reach 18 if they so desire. But, they do not get to sponsor in their parents.

[onan]

Personally, I'd just do it with razor wire like Hungary did on a lark when the refugee crisis began. They razor wired their border in like a month. It appears to be mostly effective.

I'm 62, I can cut through razor wire with little effort. So, it would also take significant border patrol.

I am not against securing the border. I just don't want another boondoggle, and the wall, especially the Trump wall smells of boondoggle.

[FightTheFuture]

God help us all. The Clown is consulting with himself on foreign policy because he has a good brain

http://twitter.com/Morning_Joe/status/710072050296074241

[SciFiAuthor]

I'm 62, I can cut through razor wire with little effort. So, it would also take significant border patrol.

I'm fine with significant border patrol.

I am not against securing the border. I just don't want another boondoggle, and the wall, especially the Trump wall smells of boondoggle.

We already had a boondoggle. 11 million people entered illegally without so much as a background check.

[onan]

I'm fine with significant border patrol.

We already had a boondoggle. 11 million people entered illegally without so much as a background check.

Agreed, and I am firmly convinced that will not go away. Border walls built by Fort Knox contractors won't succeed.

[albrecht]

So, your point is building the wall, now re-evaluated at 1000 miles is easy?

To add, I think those metaphors work well to explain how much of an item is needed. Numbers are often bewildering to translate to volume.

Sorry Princess Di but landmines are very cheap and have been proven effective. And with modern technology one could imagine making them "smart" for a bit higher cost (could be turned off so that animals aren't killed, moved so Obama's illegals, cartels, and coyotes don't see a pattern.) Some blimps or even sat coverage (maybe cheap drones?) And, for humanitarian reasons, we would have proper signage (universal symbols since many illegals are illiterate even in their native language) and advertising campaign- Sabato Gigante or Futbol sponsored by Carta Blanca and a "don't try to cross the border or you die" message.

I don't think Trump's "wall" is the best option but even it would be better than the Obama/Bush open-border policy. A better option would be serious civil, and criminal, penalty for any business, person, church, charity, school, law firm, hospital, or foundation that helps, harbors, educates, feeds, transports, employs, defends, an illegal. (For humanitarian reasons such penalties could be dropped if said institution/person informed authorities after helping the illegal when injured etc and paid for the illegal, in lieu of charges/fines, to be transported back home.) Since much of this, so far, are State and local functions it could simply withholding Federal funds to any school district, city, municipality, or state that help illegals.  Also a "bounty," like we do in IRS cases, for anyone informing the government of an entity helping/hiring an illegal. (This could be done as a tax-break.)

Then have a rational policy for immigration, VISAs, and season-worker program based on the education, wealth, need, or real "refugee" policy that looks first to the country's needs and security, doesn't exploit by simple 'cheap labor,' and also doesn't mean severe demographic shifts over short-time so that immigrants not only contribute to society but assimilate, at least in some regard.

[onan]

Sorry Princess Di but landmines are very cheap and have been proven effective. And with modern technology one could imagine making them "smart" for a bit higher cost (could be turned off so that animals aren't killed, moved so Obama's illegals, cartels, and coyotes don't see a pattern.) And, for humanitarian reasons, we would have proper signage (universal symbols since many illegals are illiterate even in their native language) and advertising campaign- Sabato Gigante or Futbol sponsored by Carta Blanca and a "don't try to cross the border or you die" message.

I don't think Trump's "wall" is the best option but even it would be better than the Obama/Bush open-border policy. A better option would be serious civil, and criminal, penalty for any business, person, church, charity, school, law firm, hospital, or foundation that helps, harbors, educates, feeds, transports, employs, defends, an illegal. (For humanitarian reasons such penalties could be dropped if said institution/person informed authorities and paid for the illegal, in lieu of charges/fines, to be transported back home.) Since much of this, so far, are State and local functions it could simply withholding Federal funds to any school district, city, muncipality, or state that help illegals.  Also a "bounty," like we do in IRS cases, for anyone informing the government of an entity helping/hiring an illegal. (This could be done as a tax-break.)

Then have a rational policy for immigration, VISAs, and season-worker program based on the education, wealth, need, or real "refugee" policy that looks first to the country's needs and security, doesn't exploit by simple 'cheap labor,' and also doesn't mean severe demographic shifts over short-time so that immigrants not only contribute to society but assimilate, at least in some regard.

Sorry man, but if you think there will ever be acceptance of land mines... well I have my doubts.

The fact is, as much as many of you want an answer to your liking, it isn't going to happen. For good reasons and for bad reasons, illegals will continue to come here. So you had better figure out a strategy that makes it better for them to live there. No, violence isn't the answer, they already have that and it is much worse than your dreams of shooting them as they cross.

Face it, as the US is now, illegal aliens are just the "cost of doing business". You aren't going to change that with a wall.

[albrecht]

Sorry man, but if you think there will ever be acceptance of land mines... well I have my doubts.

The fact is, as much as many of you want an answer to your liking, it isn't going to happen. For good reasons and for bad reasons, illegals will continue to come here. So you had better figure out a strategy that makes it better for them to live there. No, violence isn't the answer, they already have that and it is much worse than your dreams of shooting them as they cross.

Face it, as the US is now, illegal aliens are just the "cost of doing business". You aren't going to change that with a wall.

Oh, I know. And for the most part the immigrants we get are usually hard-working and ok but recently with all the government give-aways and accelerated problems in their countries make it less so and more children to deal with (and pay for.) And Obama's push to bring in unvetted Muslims and other so-called "refugees" and 'catch-and-release' for illegals with a criminal background is problematic. Like a finger in the dike, the future of the country, well the destruction of it, was set decades ago. Thank you Kennedy, Hart, and Celler. But that doesn't mean I can't rant!  It will be interesting to see. I think the USA will go down with our throats slit watching an iPad thinking the dividends from our stock in cheap labor are making us rich. I'm guessing some parts of Europe will go down in race/religious/ethnic wars like the old days. Russia will stand and then maybe end the whole thing for everyone if it comes down to it. And the Chinese, Han in particular, with their sane immigration policy and lack of concern for human rights will write the history about it (though those books will be banned except for certain Party members.)

[SciFiAuthor]

No exceptions deportation of illegals by all members of law enforcement and stiff penalties to business owners and corporate heads that use illegal labor would pretty much solve this whole thing.