President Donald J. Trump

[Value Of Pi]

”The poor are collectively unseizable. They are not only the majority on the planet, they are everywhere and the smallest event speaks of them. This is why the essential activity of the rich today is the building of walls â€" walls of concrete, of electronic surveillance, of missile barrages, minefields, frontier controls, and opaque media screens.“

â€" John Berger

Not really a question of rich and poor. Mobs tend not to be composed of rich people (money goes with power, the distribution of power is what's at stake and so the rich have less to complain about in both areas) but isn't limited to the poor either. This was true even during the French Revolution and it's still true today. The middle class is a lot larger now than in the past and some of it is more than capable of acting like a mob.

[TigerLily]

Not unless you want a big flame war about.....

To be fair though, this type of discussion should be in its own thread.

Yes. Well and thoroughly screwed. And not in a fun way. The U.S. Supreme Court's 5 (Scalia, Roberts, Alito, Thomas, Kennedy) to 4 (Stevens, Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayor) vote on Citizens United ensconced and hugely expanded  the ability to influence government with nearly unbridled spending. Many experts say because of this ruling it may take a constitutional amendment to change this. Sucks big time
Anybody want to talk about notorious decisions by activist judges?

Damn. I was trying to be all kumbaya and prove thoughtful people with differing political viewpoints could have  a reasonable exchange of ideas based on facts and evidence. 21st has been a true gentleman and scholar.
Then I threw the first molotov cocktail with that whole activist judges crack. Mea culpa. VtaGeezer, can I share your corner for a bit?
Ok. Back on topic. So looks like Trump will sweep New York. Good job!
Time for a musical interlude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvrX9DkcKTc

[albrecht]

Damn. I was trying to be all kumbaya and prove thoughtful people with differing political viewpoints could have  a reasonable exchange of ideas based on facts and evidence. 21st has been a true gentleman and scholar.
Then I threw the first molotov cocktail with that whole activist judges crack. Mea culpa. VtaGeezer, can I share your corner for a bit?
Ok. Back on topic. So looks like Trump will sweep New York. Good job!
Time for a musical interlude

My point is that is has happened, not frequently and generally they don't like to do it, because it doesn't look good precedent-wise, but (in)famously before (like those cases I mentioned before) that the Court itself can "reverse" an opinion (though they usually don't "call it that" but can "find" a reasoning for it.) Especially with new Justices (or at least a Justice) coming on board or if they see how the decision is effecting things or society has changed or whatever rational they use. They just need to agree to hear another case with similar issues. Here is a more exhaustive list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_overruled_United_States_Supreme_Court_decisions
ps: though I still think the Court has too much power and people should recall that there is, or was, at least a balance of power of sorts legally also: statutory, regulatory/administrative, and common/civil. And I guess we could also thrown in Tax/Bankruptcy and Maritime/Admiralty into that mix since they have special courts and systems.

[TigerLily]

My point is that is has happened, not frequently and generally they don't like to do it, because it doesn't look good precedent-wise, but (in)famously before (like those cases I mentioned before) that the Court itself can "reverse" an opinion (though they usually don't "call it that" but can "find" a reasoning for it.) Especially with new Justices (or at least a Justice) coming on board or if they see how the decision is effecting things or society has changed or whatever rational they use. They just need to agree to hear another case with similar issues. Here is a more exhaustive list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_overruled_United_States_Supreme_Court_decisions
ps: though I still think the Court has too much power and people should recall that there is, or was, at least a balance of power of sorts legally also: statutory, regulatory/administrative, and common/civil. And I guess we could also thrown in Tax/Bankruptcy and Maritime/Admiralty into that mix since they have special courts and systems.

Thanks, albrecht. Good to know there is a simpler alternative

[albrecht]

Thanks, albrecht.

My main point is that the media, and legal community pundits/professors, and therefore the people, have elevated the Court to godlike status. And the politicians also have done so for political reasons (let the Court sort it out or, fall back on "well the Court decided so...".) The Court and the Executive Branch, especially through all the agencies, have far too much power and the Congress (and States and people) allowed it because it was easier (for them.) And because it is the nature of any organization to try to aggrandize its power, budget, control, jurisdiction. Justices are just people. Our Founding Fathers never imagined that one body of a few select people would have total control (because we let them) over every decision, vote, referendum, local issue, law, regulation, etc and now are increasingly even pondering using international law, not just our laws, Constitution, or precedent in their process! There was meant to be a balance of power on many levels (Executive, Judicial, Legislative; Federal/State/Local; in law (civil vs criminal, tax/bankruptcy, statutory, maritime, regulatory, etc,) in law enforcement (local sheriffs, state police, Treasury, etc and then later FBI, DHS, etc) and ultimately resting with the people (voting, 2nd Amendment, Grand Juries, jury duty, jury nullification, referendums, recalls, etc.) Now almost everything is a "federal case," as people used to like to joke about that! Now, basically, everything IS a Federal Case.

[21st Century Man]

Damn. I was trying to be all kumbaya and prove thoughtful people with differing political viewpoints could have  a reasonable exchange of ideas based on facts and evidence. 21st has been a true gentleman and scholar.
Then I threw the first molotov cocktail with that whole activist judges crack. Mea culpa. VtaGeezer, can I share your corner for a bit?
Ok. Back on topic. So looks like Trump will sweep New York. Good job!
Time for a musical interlude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvrX9DkcKTc

And you have been a gracious lady in our discussion and I do not use the term lightly.  I look forward to chatting with you again about issues some other time. I think we can both agree that as the country stands now, we are fucked.  Maybe it will take another revolution to get it back on track.  One thing I know for sure is that Donald Trump is not the cure though I do wish him the best if he is sincere about curbing illegal immigration and bringing jobs back to America.

[Lt.Uhura]

...
One thing I know for sure is that Donald Trump is not the cure though I do wish him the best if he is sincere about curbing illegal immigration and bringing jobs back to America.

I wouldn't count on that.  Made in China is an essential part of the Trump family portfolio.

http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/ivanka-trump-like-her-father-manufactures-much-of-her-clothesline-in-china

[Auslandia]

The fact that a joke candidate has a serious chance to take the office of the president means the office of president is pretty much a joke nowadays. 

[FightTheFuture]

The fact that a joke candidate has a serious chance to take the office of the president means the office of president is pretty much a joke nowadays.

Sir, that is a racist comment, and I demand you retract it immediately or self terminate.

[FightTheFuture]

I wouldn't count on that.  Made in China is an essential part of the Trump family portfolio.

http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/ivanka-trump-like-her-father-manufactures-much-of-her-clothesline-in-china

Uh oh, the emperor has no orange spray on.

Trump is a naked phony who lies more than any politician that ever lived (99% of everything he says is a lie, according to politifact.com). The fact that his followers can`t see it is a bit disturbing, but at least HE will never see the inside on the White House. THANK God, for that.

[Dr. MD MD]

The fact that a joke candidate has a serious chance to take the office of the president means the office of president is pretty much a joke nowadays.

Seems to have been that way for awhile now 

[Dr. MD MD]

Uh oh, the emperor has no orange spray on.

Trump is a naked phony who lies more than any politician that ever lived (99% of everything he says is a lie, according to politifact.com). The fact that his followers can`t see it is a bit disturbing, but at least HE will never see the inside on the White House. THANK God, for that.

Wile I agree with everything you're saying I still think Hillary is worse...and this is probably a lot of the reason for support for him. Given a choice between stupid and evil I think people, out of desperation, are willing to give stupid a shot this time. 

[Auslandia]

Wile I agree with everything you're saying I still think Hillary is worse...and this is probably a lot of the reason for support for him. Given a choice between stupid and evil I think people, out of desperation, are willing to give stupid a shot this time. 

I hate to say it but even Clinton would be a better choice to man the sinking ship.  Trump just brings out the worst in America.  Clinton will just be status quo which isn't great but it also isn't the worst.

[Value Of Pi]

Wile I agree with everything you're saying I still think Hillary is worse...and this is probably a lot of the reason for support for him. Given a choice between stupid and evil I think people, out of desperation, are willing to give stupid a shot this time. 

This kind of "choice between stupid and evil" thinking is extremely simplistic and reductionist, especially for someone who claims to be a physician. How do you make the kind of complex and subtle analyses and judgements that you need to make in order to diagnose and treat patients and then, with the same brain, look at important political issues like some high school dropout would?

Sorry if that sounds insulting, but there's a huge discrepancy between what you claim to be and the thoughts you express. It doesn't add up, so please explain.

[albrecht]

This kind of "choice between stupid and evil" thinking is extremely simplistic and reductionist, especially for someone who claims to be a physician. How do you make the kind of complex and subtle analyses and judgements that you need to make in order to diagnose and treat patients and then, with the same brain, look at important political issues like some high school dropout would?

Sorry if that sounds insulting, but there's a huge discrepancy between what you claim to be and the thoughts you express. It doesn't add up, so please explain.

Actually your thought is quite appropriate. Like in the final stages of cancer (or some other conditions or in certain situations like a battlefield etc) at that point you might as well try drastic solutions- even if the risk is high- if it is the only solution to help save the patient. Or, one could, go with the Parties' choice and choose euthanasia.

[Value Of Pi]

Actually your thought is quite appropriate. Like in the final stages of cancer (or some other conditions or in certain situations like a battlefield etc) at that point you might as well try drastic solutions- even if the risk is high- if it is the only solution to help save the patient. Or, one could, go with the Parties' choice and choose euthanasia.

People who believe that the USA is now dealing with the equivalent of terminal cancer or is, using another analogy, a rapidly sinking ship, can thereby justify whatever drastic measures they would like to take. This sort of exaggeration suits their purposes and it's often impossible to convince them that things are not as dire as they imagine.

Voters whose minds work this way and master manipulators like Trump are a match made in Hell, as far as I'm concerned. Most people, while pessimistic and skeptical about our current political class and its performance, have not bought into the doom and gloom to the extent of being able to toss the dice on a buffoon like Trump. That's one reason Trump will lose.

And ironically, establishment political types are another. Like them or not, they have their own reasons for not buying into the hysteria. And, in this case, their self-interested motivations should actually work out for the best as far as stopping Trump (and Cruz) and limiting the damage done before we can elect a decent President -- possibly four years from now.

[albrecht]

People who believe that the USA is now dealing with the equivalent of terminal cancer or is, using another analogy, a rapidly sinking ship, can thereby justify whatever drastic measures they would like to take. This sort of exaggeration suits their purposes and it's often impossible to convince them that things are not as dire as they imagine.

Voters whose minds work this way and master manipulators like Trump are a match made in Hell, as far as I'm concerned. Most people, while pessimistic and skeptical about our current political class and its performance, have not bought into the doom and gloom to the extent of being able to toss the dice on a buffoon like Trump. That's one reason Trump will lose.

And ironically, establishment political types are another. Like them or not, they have their own reasons for not buying into the hysteria. And, in this case, their self-interested motivations should actually work out for the best as far as stopping Trump (and Cruz) and limiting the damage done before we can elect a decent President -- possibly four years from now.

You, or the general public, can whistle through the graveyard all they want but clearly the country (at least as a country and as it was known) is in stage-3 or 4 cancer (actually I'm not sure something without a border can even be considered a country, but will use the term country for sake of argument.) Certainly we have no nation, as we don't have a common language, culture, or belief system but now I don't think we even have a country. But I think it is still worth trying to save*, even if it take a liberal ego-manic like Trump, or anybody, who wants to do something about borders, terrorism, the economy, political correctness gone amuck, spending, financial bubbles (or potential ones lurking,) trade agreements, and legalized political corruption.

* though I think the only real solution is to devolve more power back to State and local municipalities and stop the never-ending "top-down" mandates and "solutions" to every problem and let people have more power over their destiny and lives. Not necessarily a total break-up of the union but something more in keeping with the original idea.

[Dr. MD MD]

This kind of "choice between stupid and evil" thinking is extremely simplistic and reductionist, especially for someone who claims to be a physician. How do you make the kind of complex and subtle analyses and judgements that you need to make in order to diagnose and treat patients and then, with the same brain, look at important political issues like some high school dropout would?

Sorry if that sounds insulting, but there's a huge discrepancy between what you claim to be and the thoughts you express. It doesn't add up, so please explain.

Says the guy looking for reason and authenticity at Bellgab  :

...but I'll thrown you a bone anyway because I feel sorry for you:  Just because you can't yet grasp the profundity of my thought doesn't mean I'm the simplistic one here. Look in the mirror!   

[TigerLily]

Wile I agree with everything you're saying I still think Hillary is worse...and this is probably a lot of the reason for support for him. Given a choice between stupid and evil I think people, out of desperation, are willing to give stupid a shot this time. 

I may be sorry I asked. But I'm seriously curious. Why do so many people think she is evil?

[Value Of Pi]

Says the guy looking for reason and authenticity at Bellgab  :

...but I'll thrown you a bone anyway because I feel sorry for you:  Just because you can't yet grasp the profundity of my thought doesn't mean I'm the simplistic one here. Look in the mirror!   

So you're not a doctor, you just tell people on BellGab that you are. But you have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. That's what I would have guessed and it's pretty low, even for a joint like this. And yet, you still somehow want people to take what you say seriously on a political thread? I can understand your attraction to Trump. Fraudsters on the web must really admire real-life billionaire fraudsters.

We're finished chatting, my friend.

[Dr. MD MD]

I may be sorry I asked. But I'm seriously curious. Why do so many people think she is evil?

Well, I'm sure it's all hotly debatable, as everything is these days, but you need to look at her past with Bill in Mena; the fact that her husband repealed the Glass-Steagall act, opening up the new millennia to the kind of corruption not seen since the great depression (the act was meant to prevent that from ever happening again); her performance in Libya; the whole Benghazi thing and the ensuing email fiasco; her record number of flip flops on issues that let you know she's for sale to the highest bidder; and the fact that she's being funded by Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase & Co  among other 1%ers. That enough?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLWMnH31D-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBU6ug3TLX4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI&nohtml5=False

https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N00000019&cycle=Career

Also, she looks hideous in those stupid Mao pantsuits  :

[Value Of Pi]

I may be sorry I asked. But I'm seriously curious. Why do so many people think she is evil?

I'm not so sure that most of the people who would say she's evil actually think that. But they may genuinely hate her and calling her evil is a strong way to show that. It just another example of the kind of hyperbole that has massively infected politics and social discourse in general in this country. People going to extremes is a real plague.

[Dr. MD MD]

So you're not a doctor, you just tell people on BellGab that you are. But you have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. That's what I would have guessed and it's pretty low, even for a joint like this. And yet, you still somehow want people to take what you say seriously on a political thread? I can understand your attraction to Trump. Fraudsters on the web must really admire real-life billionaire fraudsters.

We're finished chatting, my friend.

Good riddance and go fuck yourself, you self-important windbag!

Your thinking on all matters can only be described as uneducated, uninformed, uptight and reactionary.

Keep watching Touched By An Angel! 

[TigerLily]

Well, I'm sure it's all hotly debatable, as everything is these days, but you need to look at her past with Bill in Mena; the fact that her husband repealed the Glass-Steagall act, opening up the new millennia to the kind of corruption not seen since the great depression (the act was meant to prevent that from ever happening again); her performance in Libya; the whole Benghazi thing and the ensuing email fiasco; her record number of flip flops on issues that let you know she's for sale to the highest bidder; and the fact that she's being funded by Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase & Co  among other 1%ers. That enough?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLWMnH31D-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBU6ug3TLX4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI&nohtml5=False

https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N00000019&cycle=Career

Also, she looks hideous in those stupid Mao pantsuits  :

Now this true 
I will look through the rest. Thanks, Dr. MD

[21st Century Man]

Good riddance and go fuck yourself, you self-important windbag!

Your thinking on all matters can only be described as uneducated, uninformed, uptight and reactionary.

Keep watching Touched By An Angel! 

LOL.  I know I feel better now. 

[21st Century Man]

Now this true 
I will look through the rest. Thanks, Dr. MD

I prefer Hillary in leather!  Crack that whip! 

I'm just kidding.  Seriously. 

[Dr. MD MD]

I'm not so sure that most of the people who would say she's evil actually think that. But they may genuinely hate her and calling her evil is a strong way to show that. It just another example of the kind of hyperbole that has massively infected politics and social discourse in general in this country. People going to extremes is a real plague.

In other words, he's afraid. He's very, very afraid! 

Hyperbole, discourse?! Pretty big words for a nitwit like you! Too bad you're not actually saying anything with them. 

[Value Of Pi]

I prefer Hillary in leather!  Crack that whip! 

I'm just kidding.  Seriously. 

If Trump survives the convention, Hillary (wearing almost anything) will start to look a whole lot more attractive to many people, including me. I wouldn't have predicted that the Republican Party could come up with a candidate, much less two, that would have this effect on me, since I don't like Hillary at all. But it's on its way to accomplishing that.

[Up All Night]

Juan Williams overnight on the Jim Bohannon Radio show:

"Donald Trump will be the GOP nominee."

[GravitySucks]

If Trump survives the convention, Hillary (wearing almost anything) will start to look a whole lot more attractive to many people, including me. I wouldn't have predicted that the Republican Party could come up with a candidate, much less two, that would have this effect on me, since I don't like Hillary at all. But it's on its way to accomplishing that.

There is a waiting list, but if you sign up now you can get your ECT treatments in October.