President Donald J. Trump

[GuerrillaUnReal]

I know Trump is lying in regards to his pro-life stance. Just think what his answer would be if he had already received the nomination. Erring on the side of the Supreme court decision while also personally being against abortion but advocating women's rights would have been the answer you would have gotten post nomination. Trump is being more political than he would admit.

That's what's so troubling about his comments is not only is his perspective completely obsolete but it shows a complete lack of understanding about how the political process works or the history of the issue.

[chefist]

That's what's so troubling about his comments is not only is his perspective completely obsolete but it shows a complete lack of understanding about how the political process works or the history of the issue.

It will be a good litmus test for his Teflon abilities...

[GuerrillaUnReal]

It will be a good litmus test for his Teflon abilities...

Yeah I'm becoming disillusioned with Trump. He still scares me less than the shit the Democrats are running. But some of the comments from Trump about social and economic issues are making me think I might stay home on election day.

I despise John Oliver but in 2016 you cannot be anti-LBGTBBQ or anti-abortion and be mainstream. I'd even say that you can't be considered an intellectual if you're against those two things. Not to say there isn't corruption and bad elements of both but the arguments over gays and baby murder are over.

Feel free to disagree. Feel free to think or feel what you want. But the integration and normalization of the LBGT community and abortion have been good things.

[Value Of Pi]

I know Trump is lying in regards to his pro-life stance. Just think what his answer would be if he had already received the nomination. Erring on the side of the Supreme court decision while also personally being against abortion but advocating women's rights would have been the answer you would have gotten post nomination. Trump is being more political than he would admit.

Lying really doesn't adequately describe what Trump does on this issue or other issues. He simply says what he thinks will benefit him under the circumstances and claims to believe what he's saying. When the circumstances change, he adapts by changing his position. He has no core beliefs or values on an issue like abortion. That's how and why he can flip flop so easily.

The Politico article I linked to above goes a long way to explaining how he operates and why he is the way he is.

[VtaGeezer]

Lying really doesn't adequately describe what Trump does on this issue or other issues. He simply says what he thinks will benefit him under the circumstances and claims to believe what he's saying. When the circumstances change, he adapts by changing his position. He has no core beliefs or values on an issue like abortion. That's how and why he can flip flop so easily.

The Politico article I linked to above goes a long way to explaining how he operates and why he is the way he is.

Wow.  What a shocker that one on a political fight would do such a thing.  I'm speechless.

[albrecht]

Yeah I'm becoming disillusioned with Trump. He still scares me less than the shit the Democrats are running. But some of the comments from Trump about social and economic issues is making me think I might stay home on election day.

I despise John Oliver but in 2016 you cannot be anti-LBGTBBQ or anti-abortion and be mainstream. I'd even say that you can't be considered an intellectual if you're against those two things. Not to say there isn't corruption and bad elements of both but the arguments over gays and baby murder are over.

I'm not sure your analysis is correct. It was, for the most part, the Courts and Hollywood who try to mainstream deviance (using its as a statistical term, not as a value judgement, in that Obama's government via the CDC says less than 3% of the population is homosexual or BLTQ or whatever acronym is being used.) When the people vote they often are against same-sex "marriage" or allowing men and boys who "identify" as girls use the same bathroom or locker-room as the girls/women. Re: abortion it is somewhat similar in most survey the country is split but actually has gone more balance towards the anti-abortion (especially as a form of family planning) than during Roe v Wade days. Even in California, a fairly liberal State, it took the Courts to over-ride the people's choice (as often the case these days, there is no democracy, or even a representative republic because the Courts rule on their whim and can override anyone and it held up as Godlike in their judgement.)
You are likely correct in that "the future" will be going your way, especially with Hollywood pushing it, but also you have to consider the demographic change with all the immigrants (legal and illegal) and "refugees" coming in? They are usually fairly conservative (Catholic or Muslim) in their sexual and abortion views. And still, in private at least, if you asked your average "person-on-the-street": do you wish your son was homosexual? Do you regret you didn't abort your baby? Do you want some "self-identifying" boy girl use the same bathroom as your school-age daughter? So who knows?

I think the better political answer would be to parse it in some fashion ('settled law' or the usual 'should be State matter' or 'I'm against but the Courts' or, even better, brush it off and change to a subject all can agree on like, say, veteran issues.)

[GuerrillaUnReal]

That's what I speak about when I speak about with the corruption and bad parts of those two things. I don't understand gender fluidity and I think the fringes of the LBGTBBQ movement are bordering on mental illness. But your normal homosexual couple should have the same rights and be treated under the law the same as a straight couple.

All the provocative shit like gender mutual bathrooms or all the internet buzz words are youthful snowflake bullshit. But in a free society, I'm not sure I could argue against a lot of it.

[albrecht]

That's what I speak about when I speak about with the corruption and bad parts of those two things. I don't understand gender fluidity and I think the fringes of the LBGTBBQ movement are bordering on mental illness. But your normal homosexual couple should have the same rights and be treated under the law the same as a straight couple.

All the provocative shit like gender mutual bathrooms or all the internet buzz words are youthful snowflake bullshit. But in a free society, I'm not sure I could argue against a lot of it.

Or turn it around and say "you know what, Ms.NPR Reporter or SJW, "the HBLTQ is less than 3% of the population, according to Obama's government's own numbers, and only smaller subset of that number actually want to get "married. We have bigger issues to deal with like the economy, terrorism, unemployment, veteran health and help, education, the open border, or the healthcare system that effect 100% of the population"... and then state your policies on those issues.

[chefist]

Yeah I'm becoming disillusioned with Trump. He still scares me less than the shit the Democrats are running. But some of the comments from Trump about social and economic issues are making me think I might stay home on election day.

I despise John Oliver but in 2016 you cannot be anti-LBGTBBQ or anti-abortion and be mainstream. I'd even say that you can't be considered an intellectual if you're against those two things. Not to say there isn't corruption and bad elements of both but the arguments over gays and baby murder are over.

Feel free to disagree. Feel free to think or feel what you want. But the integration and normalization of the LBGT community and abortion have been good things.

Oh agreed...times have changed... Will his past comments be magnified more than a Dem...absolutely... It's part of the game you have to anticipate...

[FightTheFuture]

People are growing tired of Trump and his sleaze. Cruz takes double digit lead in winner take all Wisconsin

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/wow-surprising-candidate-just-took-huge-lead-wisconsin/

[GuerrillaUnReal]

People are growing tired of Trump and his sleaze. Cruz takes double digit lead in winner take all Wisconsin

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/wow-surprising-candidate-just-took-huge-lead-wisconsin/

based on 471 votes
5.8% margin of error

[albrecht]

It is amazing, I've had CNN on tv on mute while doing other stuff but glance back everyso often and it has been 100% Trump abortion comments or the manhandling of the reporter for hours. Seriously. I'm not sure if they are repeating it but it seems to be the same pundits, banners, and reporters over and over and over and over. Though lately they updated the banner to Cruz winning Wisconsin and Will Trump Split the Republican Party but same clips and political 'experts' being played. And CNN has gone "all woman," basically on the Trump abortion stuff. Actually quite hilarious to see the pandering and political bent so obvious.

[Value Of Pi]

Wow.  What a shocker that one on a political fight would do such a thing.  I'm speechless.

You don't seem to see the difference between a politician who lies and/or panders and what Trump is and does -- and why Trump is worse. At some point, maybe you'll figure it out. Maybe when they make the movie.

[DanTSX]

.

[VtaGeezer]

It is amazing, I've had CNN on tv on mute while doing other stuff but glance back everyso often and it has been 100% Trump abortion comments or the manhandling of the reporter for hours. Seriously. I'm not sure if they are repeating it but it seems to be the same pundits, banners, and reporters over and over and over and over. Though lately they updated the banner to Cruz winning Wisconsin and Will Trump Split the Republican Party but same clips and political 'experts' being played. And CNN has gone "all woman," basically on the Trump abortion stuff. Actually quite hilarious to see the pandering and political bent so obvious.

CNN's relentless anti-Trump crusade has almost become a parody of itself. By comparison MSNBC appears almost fair to the Orange antiChrist.

[Up All Night]

“I am pro-life,” Trump said. Asked how a ban would actually work, Trump said, “Well, you go back to a position like they had where they would perhaps go to illegal places but we have to ban it,” Trump said.

He said “we have to ban” abortion even if we “go back to a position like they had where they would perhaps go to illegal places.”

“There has to be some form of punishment,” Trump said. “For the woman?” Matthews asked. “Yeah,” Trump said, nodding.

I've got your punishment for having an illegal abortion --- Public Shaming:

[Up All Night]

CNN's relentless anti-Trump crusade has almost become a parody of itself. By comparison MSNBC appears almost fair to the Orange antiChrist.

I agree. That's why I turned on MSNBC tonight. I just couldn't take anymore of CNN's continual Trump bashing. They even had that Political hack David Gregory on their round table last night after the Town Hall event with Anderson Cooper. David was spewing anti-trump vitriol like nobody's business!! That political hack would NEVER go after HRC like that, no matter what the reason. VOMIT !!!

[VtaGeezer]

I agree. That's why I turned on MSNBC tonight. I just couldn't take anymore of CNN's continual Trump bashing. They even had that Political hack David Gregory on their round table last night after the Town Hall event with Anderson Cooper. David was spewing anti-trump vitriol like nobody's business!! That political hack would NEVER go after HRC like that, no matter what the reason. VOMIT !!!

I actually think there's a vendetta against DT underway ordered by Time Warner; its like the word from CNN mgmt is that resisting the smear campaign gets you an indefinite assignment in Iraq or Syria.

[VtaGeezer]

I've got your punishment for having an illegal abortion --- Public Shaming:

I watched the whole thing.  It was a scripted question pre-framed by MSNBC.  Trump answered quite extensively about his views but Matthews kept badgering him for more on abortion and then deftly slipped in the bit about punishing the woman, and Trump walked into it.

[onan]

I watched the whole thing.  It was a scripted question pre-framed by MSNBC.  Trump answered quite extensively about his views but Matthews kept badgering him for more on abortion and then deftly slipped in the bit about punishing the woman, and Trump walked into it.

If you are going to make abortion illegal (good fuckin' luck) then punishment would be expected. I suggest a 5 dollar fine.

[FightTheFuture]

I watched the whole thing.  It was a scripted question pre-framed by MSNBC.  Trump answered quite extensively about his views but Matthews kept badgering him for more on abortion and then deftly slipped in the bit about punishing the woman, and Trump walked into it.

Poor Donald. The mean, nasty ol` media just keeps taking advantage of his ignorance. Hell! It`s just not fair!

[whoozit]

The abortion comments are going to leave a mark.

[onan]

The abortion comments are going to leave a mark.

If we were to return to the "Goldwater" Republican platform, Trump would switch his position before his lips closed saying he was prolife.

[VtaGeezer]

If we were to return to the "Goldwater" Republican platform, Trump would switch his position before his lips closed saying he was prolife.

Did you watch the interview or are you reacting to the sound bites? I don't think he had a position on a legal penalty for abortion until the question. Its a fallacious question; it simply ain't gonna happen so its not on his radar.  His position was, surprise , non-PC and won't affect his support except for pro-abortion women who are Trump fans; he'll probably lose both of them.  The career pols have long lists of  meaningless positions rehearsed though, and his staff should have better prepped him for the red meat gotchas. If he suffers, it'll be because of the kneejerk "clarification".

[onan]

Did you watch the interview or are you reacting to the sound bites? I don't think he had a position on a legal penalty for abortion until the question. Its a fallacious question; it simply ain't gonna happen so its not on his radar.  His position was, surprise , non-PC and won't affect his support except for pro-abortion women who are Trump fans; he'll probably lose both of them.  The career pols have long lists of  meaningless positions rehearsed though, and his staff should have better prepped him for the red meat gotchas. If he suffers, it'll be because of the kneejerk "clarification".

In 2000 he was prochoice with the exception of partial birth.

In 1999 he said, "I believe it is a personal decision that should be left to the women and their doctors"

He was in his 50's then. To me the only paradigm shift Trump has had is solely due to his constituency.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

In 2000 he was prochoice with the exception of partial birth.

In 1999 he said, "I believe it is a personal decision that should be left to the women and their doctors"

He was in his 50's then. To me the only paradigm shift Trump has had is solely due to his constituency.

You bringing my attention to his flip flopping on gay marriage is also very concerning.

[Zetaspeak]

Yep and the Palm Beach County State Attorney Dave Aronberg, is a member of a Billary fundraising and support group. Obviously the media will take any bait if has something to do with Trump but the possibilities/allegations of unsecured emails, dead people, removing classified material, erasing the classification notice so material could be sent, having outside "private" diplomatic/security advisors, etc etc are boring and unimportant because she is a Clinton.

I don't think it's necessarily political, I think it's just Florida being Florida. Any time you watch the news and see an absurd charge or a ridiculous sentence more times than not it's coming out of Florida.

The irony of it all, I am guessing most "Trump conservatives" would fall under the "tough on crime" supporters that love stuff like mandatory minimums/sentences and would be against judges discretion (damn bleeding hearts) . This sort of broad stroke thinking on crime ends up with stuff like this. Hate to say it, it's predictably right-winging it. A lot of them love throwing out terms like "the law is the law" and "Can't do the time, don't do the crime"  until one of their own is caught up in something like this then, all of a sudden the tune changes to "Come on, let's be logical here"     

[VtaGeezer]

In 2000 he was prochoice with the exception of partial birth.

In 1999 he said, "I believe it is a personal decision that should be left to the women and their doctors"

He was in his 50's then. To me the only paradigm shift Trump has had is solely due to his constituency.

Many politicians have shifted their abortion position with the rise of the Bible Thumpers. The flap really has little to do with pro/anti abortion position. It's about answering the unserious gotcha question of punishing the woman that served its purpose for MSNBC.   Its litmus test bullshit since abortion is no more likely of being banned than slavery is of coming back.  If one thinks that being President requires response to flashcards, this could be a problem for Trump.   

You didn't say whether you saw the interview, or even the entire exchange on abortion. 

[onan]

Many politicians have shifted their abortion position with the rise of the Bible Thumpers. The flap really has little to do with pro/anti abortion position. It's about answering the unserious gotcha question of punishing the woman that served its purpose for MSNBC.   Its litmus test bullshit since abortion is no more likely of being banned than slavery is of coming back.  If one thinks that being President requires response to flashcards, this could be a problem for Trump.   

You didn't say whether you saw the interview, or even the entire exchange on abortion.

I didn't see the interview.

Abortion is being extremely limited and in some perspective banned would be an appropriate term. Are you aware that a clinic in (I think Alabama) is being closed due to proximity to a school? The litmus test for abortion rights extends further than an "unserious" question. And not that I want to turn this into an abortion rights thread, but abortion rights speaks to many other positions as well.

[albrecht]

I don't think it's necessarily political, I think it's just Florida being Florida. Any time you watch the news and see an absurd charge or a ridiculous sentence more times than not it's coming out of Florida.

The irony of it all, I am guessing most "Trump conservatives" would fall under the "tough on crime" supporters that love stuff like mandatory minimums/sentences and would be against judges discretion (damn bleeding hearts) . This sort of broad stroke thinking on crime ends up with stuff like this. Hate to say it, it's predictably right-winging it. A lot of them love throwing out terms like "the law is the law" and "Can't do the time, don't do the crime"  until one of their own is caught up in something like this then, all of a sudden the tune changes to "Come on, let's be logical here" 

True, in many circumstances. Though it Is not just 'rightwingers' who exhibit 'flexibility' when it comes to their candidate,  family, or selves. 'Not in my backyard' and 'flexibility' is a common thing. (Look at what Is excused by more leftists for the Clintons or Kennedys as examples.) Unfortunately due to lawsuits and culture the police, as u mention, often can't be flexible, use judgement, or profile because the sued, be accused of favoring one group, being corrupt, etc. We have way too many laws and 'zero-tolerance' is ruining lives.