Billy Meier - Michael Horn

[MichaelHorn]

No, I definitely won't be invited to any of those since they were taken over by Open Minds, which I've publicly called out as a disinformation outfit, along with a lot of the phonies in the UFOCI:

http://theyflyblog.com/2014/06/09/open-letter-mufon-members-part-2/

http://theyflyblog.com/2014/10/08/handle-truth/

etc.

[chefist]

No, I definitely won't be invited to any of those since they were taken over by Open Minds, which I've publicly called out as a disinformation outfit, along with a lot of the phonies in the UFOCI:

http://theyflyblog.com/2014/06/09/open-letter-mufon-members-part-2/

http://theyflyblog.com/2014/10/08/handle-truth/

etc.

You mean even UFO "experts" have dismissed the BM case as a hoax?

[MichaelHorn]

Since none of them represent an actual, verifiable, ongoing UFO case, and none of them have been within 20' of an actual extraterrestrial craft and since none of them have received date/time stamped, verifiable, prophetically accurate information - as I have - they're hardly "experts" at anything but shucking, jiving and hawking dopey books, etc.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Since none of them represent an actual, verifiable, ongoing UFO case, and none of them have been within 20' of an actual extraterrestrial craft and since none of them have received date/time stamped, verifiable, prophetically accurate information - as I have - they're hardly "experts" at anything but shucking, jiving and hawking dopey books, etc.

You believe extraterrestrials have to be able to provide prophetic information in order to be legitimate?

[coaster]

Even other ufo phonies think meier's story is bullshit. Haha.

[MichaelHorn]

No, and I don't have any "beliefs". Let's note that the confirmed discovery of intelligent extraterrestrial life would be the most important event in all of science and human history…exceeded only by contact between extraterrestrials and the people of Earth.

The independently authenticated physical and informational evidence in the Meier case - which now spans almost three-quarters of a century - establishes the singular authenticity of the still ongoing contacts. Part of the reason for the contacts was to provide us with verifiably accurate information that we could later corroborate and then...reason our way through.

[coaster]

No, and I don't have any "beliefs". Let's note that the confirmed discovery of intelligent extraterrestrial life would be the most important event in all of science and human history…exceeded only by contact between extraterrestrials and the people of Earth.

The independently authenticated physical and informational evidence in the Meier case - which now spans almost three-quarters of a century - establishes the singular authenticity of the still ongoing contacts. Part of the reason for the contacts was to provide us with verifiably accurate information that we could later corroborate and then...reason our way through.

Trash cans, toy cars and photos of magazines are not evidence, michael.

[MichaelHorn]

That's actually correct...and why when one reads (and understands, tests, etc.) - analyses like these:

http://www.tjresearch.info/Zahi_WCUFO%20Investigation.pdf

http://www.rhalzahi.com/docs/pendulum-EN.pdf

http://www.theyfly.com/sites/default/files/ESinvestig3NovV2.pdf

http://theyfly.com/PDF/PhotoAnalysis.pdf

...they can move on from their prejudices, lack of understanding and incorrect beliefs, and engage in meaningful discussion of the facts.

[coaster]

You tried to start a cult, and you failed. It happens. Move on. Now do something productive with your life, dickhead.

[MichaelHorn]

I'll bet that at least a couple of people here cringe when they see this loser publicly calling himself out, "Now do something productive with your life, dickhead."

Hey, since when is this the place for self-therapy? Maybe though, it's not such a bad thing. If it caught on, with others admonishing themselves similarly, hey, it might be worth it.

[coaster]

[heater]

today is my first time dropping into this thread.

MichaelHorn can you give the elevator pitch version as to what is unique about your story? (I ask because i'm a newb).

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the...joys of airline travel these days. Multiple planes, delays, cancelations, bad food, strange diseases, etc., etc. And then of course getting my hair messed up, pinched, having my clothes torn and all around being manhandled by UFO groupies and their mothers, etc. Be assured, it's far safer and less damaging to my digestion to Skype.

In other words, you weren't offered a plane ticket or hotel room, were you?  Verne Troyer rates that much, and probably even gets a free Mini Me bar.

[MichaelHorn]

themudking,

I'll give it a shot:

The Billy Meier case is the only scientifically proven, still ongoing (over 73 years!) UFO contact case. The over 1,200 clear, mainly daytime UFO photos, films and video - from 1964 to 1981 - along with the metal alloy samples and sound recordings remain the clearest, best UFO evidence and are still irreproducible. In addition, Meier has published over 26,000 pages of information, including (now about 200) specific examples of prophetically accurate, scientific and world event related information. And that's only from the approximately 5,000 pages translated into English. There are now over 125 eyewitnesses to the craft, including me, as well as five other photographers, including a former skeptic. For his trouble Meier has survived almost two dozen attempts on his life, attempts on his family, and endless attempts at character assassination from failed skeptics and various losers (you won't have to look far on this forum to find a number of them).

The actual reason for the case, beyond creating the controversy about the existence of other intelligent life in the cosmos, is to help us assure our own very threatened future survival. Having verifiably foretold virtually everything from climate change, global warming, two US-Iraq Wars, AIDS (by name), fundamentalist Islamic terrorism, Russian military movements, the Ebola epidemic and many more of the ills that humanity failed to avert by ignoring his (and the Plejaren extraterrestrial's) warnings, we are collectively now almost at the point of no return in most of these matters.

There's tons more of course and my website and blog have, and are linked to, even more information.

Did that help?

[MichaelHorn]

Re plane ticket, etc. - absolutely not, thankfully. As delightful as you would think it would be, flying up for a couple of hour event isn't on the top of my list. Having already been on numerous trips to Canada, Switzerland, L.A., Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Hawaii this year, I take no offense at not being asked to go again for a brief event.

While I think that Modern Burger, in the Phoenix airport, is so far the best of the airport burgers, I'm willing to forgo the pleasure to sleep in my own little bed.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

I do hope you're not charging for that.  Don't you think it's a little unfair to make people go to an event when you, yourself, are just sitting there in your pajama bottoms after walking three feet from your bed?

Let's hope he at least has the decency to wear pajama bottoms, and pray to every deity who will listen that he stays seated if he doesn't!

[MichaelHorn]

I'll actually second that, I really don't need more wives at this point.

[PB the Deplorable]

today is my first time dropping into this thread.

MichaelHorn can you give the elevator pitch version as to what is unique about your story? (I ask because i'm a newb).

If various cults are placed on a scale, with Free Love at one end and Castration, kool-aide, and vanilla pudding at the other, where on that scale do the Billymeierians fall?

[chefist]

If various cults are placed on a scale, with Free Love at one end and Castration, kool-aide, and vanilla pudding at the other, where on that scale do the Billymeierians fall?

I always thought Applewhite gave them chocolate pudding? It's been a while...maybe they at least had a choice?

[b_dubb]

You mean even UFO "experts" have dismissed the BM case as a hoax?

UFO EXPERTS?!?!?

[MichaelHorn]

A true oxymoron, with the emphasis on the, well, you know.

[coaster]

I'll give it a shot:
Trash can lids.

Did that help?

Fify

[Yorkshire pud]

A true oxymoron, with the emphasis on the, well, you know.

Why don't you ever address the fact that pictures out of books have been copied, stills from TV shows used as 'evidence' of ET beings and trash can lids being the basis of so called star ships? Is it too difficult to reconcile and to acknowledge those inconvenient facts would collapse your house of cards. C'mon Mike, don't be shy..address them please.

[Little Hater]

Why don't you ever address the fact that pictures out of books have been copied, stills from TV shows used as 'evidence' of ET beings and trash can lids being the basis of so called star ships? Is it too difficult to reconcile and to acknowledge those inconvenient facts would collapse your house of cards. C'mon Mike, don't be shy..address them please.

My question exactly. This thread is becoming my favorite here at BG (other than GNS, of course), and I think Mr. Horn is holding his own, especially considering that only one other target of BG's vitriol has had the courage to show up and try to defend himself. Horn has to address YP's question about the copied images, though, if he expects to convince anyone of his and Meier's authenticity.

[MichaelHorn]

I appreciate Little Hater’s perspective and I’ll add that I’m actually glad to address any of the claims against the case. Of course people can and will have to decide for themselves. I assume that the majority of people would really like to know the truth, so they need to actually look at the evidence and information thoroughly to do so.

Regarding the claims that Meier used photographs of the Dean Martin dancers, we have this article online: http://www.theyfly.com/Asket&Nera.htm

There are a good number of points in there that have to be considered, so read the article carefully. Among the things that I realized spoke to Meier’s honesty were: the lack of cathode tube dots/lines in the photos; the actual stark difference in the faces; the videotapes of the shows weren’t released until the 1990s, 25 years AFTER Meier took his photos; the fact that Meier and the Plejaren discussed BOTH the fact that there were doubles for the women in the US AND the fact that the space photos had been corrupted YEARS BEFORE any skeptical attacks were made.

This is a fact and something that I read in the original English transcripts in 1986 AND is published in Wendell Stevens’ books containing Contacts 39 and 68. I still have the scans of the books and lots of people also own them. Silly skeptical arguments about backdating and all that fall apart when you see the copyright page from a published book, as I’ve long said.

(Not mentioned in the article was an explanation as to HOW Meier would have even known this show was going to be broadcast, what kind of a TV he would have that doesn’t show the dots, etc., how he would have gotten his camera and everything all ready in time to take photos from a fast moving show…that probably wasn’t being live broadcast in the remote area of Switzerland in which he lived, in English of course, anyway. Skeptics have to jump through a LOT of illogical, unprovable hoops...just to try to make the man wrong.)

The other points in the article about the photo manipulations, schemers, etc., are simply facts and what Meier has dealt with over the years. Of course the still living other eyewitness to Asket is a retired UN diplomat who served there for 12 years. We even had her honesty assessed by an expert consultant to the US Army and Special Forces who teaches the troops to be able to quickly read and assess body language.

To make sure he wasn’t influenced when he assessed her AND Meier, I showed him clear videos of them talking…with NO sound, so he wouldn’t be influenced by WHAT they were saying and assessed them on their body language, congruity, etc., which he did. He assessed them BOTH as truthful (See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoZO6CAXxsI)

And even in this film, which we shot primarily in 2006, there were prophecies of Meier that have come, or are now coming, true, as some people point out pertaining to illegal immigration, environmental factors, etc.

In fact, just reading the info in this blog (http://theyflyblog.com/2015/09/18/go-forth-and-multiply-to-divide-and-conquer/) should also be quite sobering because - at the very least - all of this prophetic information was already online before the events occurred (with the exception of the WTC attack). But since all the rest of these things have happened and/or are now happening, an objective, reasonable person is going to be struck by the inescapable authenticity of the documentation.

Now if people want to remain skeptics in the face of the mountainous evidence and information in the Meier case - which is simply unprecedented in human history, in any and ALL categories - then they’re free to do so. And it’s equally easy to address the claims of a so-called “cult”, which are actually laughable.

Because of my own decades of research, 15 trips to Switzerland, 4 attempts to actually trick Meier to see if he lied, meeting other eyewitnesses, family members, walking the sites where he took UFO photos, knowing and learning from the original investigators - as well as being within 20’ of a small craft myself - I know the case and the man are absolutely genuine and authentic. Hence, I don’t get upset at people who make challenges, foolish comments, etc.

I DO get upset that people who stubbornly refuse to think their way through the evidence and perceive the monumental efforts, by this one man and his non-terrestrial associates to help us assure our own VERY threatened future survival, are trivializing and missing benefiting themselves from this historical opportunity.

But while the Plejaren could obviously “prove” their existence in five minutes, all over the world - instead of conducting contacts with one man for almost three-quarters of a century - they don’t because it would force people to accept the truth, which would violate their free will and have very bad results. In the same way, while I speak up forcefully for the truth of the case, I can’t and won’t try to…convince people against their will of something that they just aren’t equipped to handle at this time.

[MichaelHorn]

P.S> Just posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBqpi4XHjhE

Coincidence? We don't think so...do we?

And no, I am NOT Little Hater, thanks very much.

[Yorkshire pud]

I appreciate Little Hater’s perspective and I’ll add that I’m actually glad to address any of the claims against the case. Of course people can and will have to decide for themselves. I assume that the majority of people would really like to know the truth, so they need to actually look at the evidence and information thoroughly to do so.

Regarding the claims that Meier used photographs of the Dean Martin dancers, we have this article online: http://www.theyfly.com/Asket&Nera.htm

There are a good number of points in there that have to be considered, so read the article carefully. Among the things that I realized spoke to Meier’s honesty were: the lack of cathode tube dots/lines in the photos; the actual stark difference in the faces;

Oh the lines thing is easy to explain (I'm a keen photographer)  shutter speed.. the tube has a frewuency of 50 htz.. make sure the shutter speed is the same or slower..

the videotapes of the shows weren’t released until the 1990s, 25 years AFTER Meier took his photos; the fact that Meier and the Plejaren discussed BOTH the fact that there were doubles for the women in the US AND the fact that the space photos had been corrupted YEARS BEFORE any skeptical attacks were made.

This is a fact and something that I read in the original English transcripts in 1986 AND is published in Wendell Stevens’ books containing Contacts 39 and 68. I still have the scans of the books and lots of people also own them. Silly skeptical arguments about backdating and all that fall apart when you see the copyright page from a published book, as I’ve long said.

(Not mentioned in the article was an explanation as to HOW Meier would have even known this show was going to be broadcast, what kind of a TV he would have that doesn’t show the dots, etc., how he would have gotten his camera and everything all ready in time to take photos from a fast moving show…that probably wasn’t being live broadcast in the remote area of Switzerland in which he lived, in English of course, anyway. Skeptics have to jump through a LOT of illogical, unprovable hoops...just to try to make the man wrong.)

The other points in the article about the photo manipulations, schemers, etc., are simply facts and what Meier has dealt with over the years. Of course the still living other eyewitness to Asket is a retired UN diplomat who served there for 12 years. We even had her honesty assessed by an expert consultant to the US Army and Special Forces who teaches the troops to be able to quickly read and assess body language.

To make sure he wasn’t influenced when he assessed her AND Meier, I showed him clear videos of them talking…with NO sound, so he wouldn’t be influenced by WHAT they were saying and assessed them on their body language, congruity, etc., which he did. He assessed them BOTH as truthful (See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoZO6CAXxsI)

And even in this film, which we shot primarily in 2006, there were prophecies of Meier that have come, or are now coming, true, as some people point out pertaining to illegal immigration, environmental factors, etc.

In fact, just reading the info in this blog (http://theyflyblog.com/2015/09/18/go-forth-and-multiply-to-divide-and-conquer/) should also be quite sobering because - at the very least - all of this prophetic information was already online before the events occurred (with the exception of the WTC attack). But since all the rest of these things have happened and/or are now happening, an objective, reasonable person is going to be struck by the inescapable authenticity of the documentation.

Now if people want to remain skeptics in the face of the mountainous evidence and information in the Meier case - which is simply unprecedented in human history, in any and ALL categories - then they’re free to do so. And it’s equally easy to address the claims of a so-called “cult”, which are actually laughable.

Because of my own decades of research, 15 trips to Switzerland, 4 attempts to actually trick Meier to see if he lied, meeting other eyewitnesses, family members, walking the sites where he took UFO photos, knowing and learning from the original investigators - as well as being within 20’ of a small craft myself - I know the case and the man are absolutely genuine and authentic. Hence, I don’t get upset at people who make challenges, foolish comments, etc.

I DO get upset that people who stubbornly refuse to think their way through the evidence and perceive the monumental efforts, by this one man and his non-terrestrial associates to help us assure our own VERY threatened future survival, are trivializing and missing benefiting themselves from this historical opportunity.

But while the Plejaren could obviously “prove” their existence in five minutes, all over the world - instead of conducting contacts with one man for almost three-quarters of a century - they don’t because it would force people to accept the truth, which would violate their free will and have very bad results. In the same way, while I speak up forcefully for the truth of the case, I can’t and won’t try to…convince people against their will of something that they just aren’t equipped to handle at this time.

Adrress later..this on my phone.

[MichaelHorn]

P.P.S. If second video is not online when you click, it will be back up, as the producer in the UK is going to do some editing, etc.

[MichaelHorn]

Regarding the photos in question, again, ALL of the elements that speak against the possibility that Meier was equipped, prepared and had access to a US broadcast, etc., must be taken into consideration. As well as the fact that his camera had a broken mechanism with the setting stuck at infoinity, which made for great photos of the craft join the sky but also wouldn't have served well for a perfect close-up join a screen, etc.

As previously mentioned, thinking through ALL of the factors is required...but only if one wants to know the truth and not just spin their wheels trying to "prove" dishonesty, which the second video, shot a week ago, just happens to explain as well.

[MichaelHorn]

Should be: "...setting stuck at infinity, which made for great photos of the craft in the sky but also wouldn't have served well for a perfect close-up on a screen, etc."

The eraser on my computer didn't work, hence, reposted.