The Clinton Trump Debates

[Jackstar]

Drumpf still should've been able to direct the discussion to what he wanted to and couldn't do it

100% scripted. Mark my words.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

I was going to vote for Kodos until Trump made it abundantly clear that he will never take any guff from Rosie O'Donnell.

[Designx]

   I thought the debate was good.  Donald was on defense for the most part but I thought he held his own.  He was right about stop and frisk and Hillary was wrong.  Frankly, Donald was a bit soft on Hillary tonight.  He could have really gone after her about Benghazi, the Clinton foundation and a few other things but decided not to go there for whatever reason.  Hillary did fine though I thought she looked rather arrogant at times on the stage.  Maybe she pooped in her Depends and that caused her face to contort a bit.  All in all, I thought it was basically a draw.  Both sides could claim victory.

Going after Clinton on the foundation, Benghazi, or emails will result in failure. I just don't see the country understanding or giving a damn. It just looks like another attack with some weird thing where the average American has no clue about. If you are going to attack then Clintons's attack on Trump with the sexist remarks about women is much more effective even if it isn't true, people can relate to the idea of calling a women a "slob" or "pig" as being highly offensive.   

[K_Dubb]

Upon being shat upon by an eagle:  A sonnet

On great broad wings, with primaries well-splayed,
You wheel in updrafts, drawing graceful loops
Upon the sky -- these virtues are clichéd,
But none have hymned the grandeur of your poops.
As raptors go, you are the king, the peak,
The monarch of the kingdom of the birds.
Your pow'r of voice, though but a feeble squeak,
Fair thunders in the volume of your turds.
Your fearsome eye is rimmed in yellow fierce.
Its awesome glare locks me inside of it --
A shrew awaiting your sharp talon's pierce --
But whew!  It's only torrents of white shit.
The Sioux and Cheyenne tell us of these things --
Of feathered shadows swooping o'er the plains
With thunderheads that boil upon their wings,
Bright lightning from their eyes, and pouring rains.
I felt you cause, today, to my surprise,
A little cloudburst from the cloudless skies.

[Lt.Uhura]

Going after Clinton on the foundation, Benghazi, or emails will result in failure. I just don't see the country understanding or giving a damn. It just looks like another attack with some weird thing where the average American has no clue about. If you are going to attack then Clintons's attack on Trump with the sexist remarks about women is much more effective even if it isn't true, people can relate to the idea of calling a women a "slob" or "pig" as being highly offensive.

While typically sexist, when it comes to attacking the obese, Trump insults both men and woman equally. He'd really be in trouble if he suggested the hacker was "a four hundred pound woman."

[Dr. MD MD]

Going after Clinton on the foundation, Benghazi, or emails will result in failure. I just don't see the country understanding or giving a damn. It just looks like another attack with some weird thing where the average American has no clue about. If you are going to attack then Clintons's attack on Trump with the sexist remarks about women is much more effective even if it isn't true, people can relate to the idea of calling a women a "slob" or "pig" as being highly offensive.

Maybe Hollywood could make a movie called Benghazi 11, about a ragtag bunch of kooks who attempt to rob an embassy. I bet then more liberals would believe it. 

[GuerrillaUnReal]

The two problems with the American economy are government interference and Americans are increasingly becoming worthless

The biggest problem with business in America is the government chokes out small business and innovation. When I was a kid growing up in Bill's America, the backbone of the economy was small business. The majority of businesses were small business and virtually everyone I knew had their own business or side business. Then the worst President in American history George W. Bush decided to murder small business and then the Democrats came along and set the corpse on fire. Now with the way our economy is structured with a retarded 35% federal business tax, income taxes, Obamacare, whatever insane federal fees on top of state taxes and whatever insane laws they have. This has grounded the economy virtually to a halt and gangfucked the independence of Americans. It is now next to impossible to start a new traditional business without risking several years of financial ruin should it fail. Combined with the falling value of the dollar and the rising costs of living, we've created an atmosphere where only large corporations who are in bed with the government can survive.

Idiot socialists want you to keep squeezing business owners because they want you thinking in a rich vs. poor dynamic. But they're removing the average person's ability to be a capitalist and control their own financial destiny while ensuring only large corporations who are in bed with the government can survive. Not only is this horrible for what it's doing to us the people but it's destroying innovation in this country as now innovators can't compete with the monopolies who are large enough to own the marketplace.

Also, we are living through one of the worst generations America has ever produced. Millennials are not as strong, not as smart and not as self-reliant as previous generations. As much as half of the country isn't functioning at the moment. Whether it's a failed economy, a failed education system, or a failed mental health system. Americans are fucked up in record numbers. The system simply cannot sustain this. On top of that, Millenials are lazy, naive, largely worthless people. This results in the quality of work and innovation drastically falling off on top of all the welfare and infrastructure ramifications of half the country not functioning.

[Dr. MD MD]

Good question, Charlie! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neBD6_TRpbI

[macavay]

Doesn't matter who wins because they're both losers

[GuerrillaUnReal]

Good question, Charlie! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neBD6_TRpbI

This narrative shift from the media is spooky. Something has changed...

[Value Of Pi]

This is what Art Bell refers to as 'the quickening.'  The rate of disruptive change, at least up until a few years ago, was getting even quicker.

I haven't read his book, but he did talk about "the quickening" a lot. The thing that always impressed me about this idea is that it didn't only apply to the things you'd expect, like the pace of technological change.

It basically included everything under the sun. In effect, time itself was speeding up. All kinds of events and processes seemed to be happening faster, including measurable things like Olympic sprinters and computers, but also things you couldn't objectively measure. All of this, while the atomic clocks (Art's personal timepiece, included) tell us that everything is unchanged in terms of the movement of time.

Perception says one thing, science says something else. Science is no doubt correct, but this phenomenon was, to me, one of his more interesting topics. Also, it's a nice relief to blame some unknown force of nature for problems that are all man-made.

[Jackstar]

Millenials are lazy, naive, largely worthless people.

Can confirm. Most of them don't even know which Kennedy.

[21st Century Man]

The two problems with the American economy are government interference and Americans are increasingly becoming worthless

The biggest problem with business in America is the government chokes out small business and innovation. When I was a kid growing up in Bill's America, the backbone of the economy was small business. The majority of businesses were small business and virtually everyone I knew had their own business or side business. Then the worst President in American history George W. Bush decided to murder small business and then the Democrats came along and set the corpse on fire. Now with the way our economy is structured with a retarded 35% federal business tax, income taxes, Obamacare, whatever insane federal fees on top of state taxes and whatever insane laws they have. This has grounded the economy virtually to a halt and gangfucked the independence of Americans. It is now next to impossible to start a new traditional business without risking several years of financial ruin should it fail. Combined with the falling value of the dollar and the rising costs of living, we've created an atmosphere where only large corporations who are in bed with the government can survive.

Idiot socialists want you to keep squeezing business owners because they want you thinking in a rich vs. poor dynamic. But they're removing the average person's ability to be a capitalist and control their own financial destiny while ensuring only large corporations who are in bed with the government can survive. Not only is this horrible for what it's doing to us the people but it's destroying innovation in this country as now innovators can't compete with the monopolies who are large enough to own the marketplace.

Also, we are living through one of the worst generations America has ever produced. Millennials are not as strong, not as smart and not as self-reliant as previous generations. As much as half of the country isn't functioning at the moment. Whether it's a failed economy, a failed education system, or a failed mental health system. Americans are fucked up in record numbers. The system simply cannot sustain this. On top of that, Millenials are lazy, naive, largely worthless people. This results in the quality of work and innovation drastically falling off on top of all the welfare and infrastructure ramifications of half the country not functioning.

Good post even though if I disagree about Bush being the worst President in history.  That honor used to go to Jimmy Carter until Barack Obama came along.  I think there are other Presidents from earlier times that could also lay a claim to that distinction.     Herbert Hoover, James Buchanan. As a matter of fact there were quite a few terrible Presidents in the 1840's and 1850's.

[mikuthing01]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKsyIs8OLME

[paladin1991]

Can confirm. Most of them don't even know which Kennedy.

Morons.  Everybody knows it was Papa Joe.

[21st Century Man]

I'm hearing post-debate analysis today and apparently there were a lot of focus groups questioned after the performance last night and Hillary lost voters.  Have we finally gotten to the point where most people are sick and tired of the all talk and no action politicians that have plagued our system for the last 30 years?  It appears the electorate is tired of business as usual from our politicians and I'm talking about Democrats and Republicans.  One can hope, anyway.

[21st Century Man]

How Trump won over a bar full of undecideds and Democrats
By Salena Zito September 26, 2016 | 11:53pm

YOUNGSTOWN, Pa

Letosky entered the evening undecided in a town that is heavily Democratic in registration. Her sister and father are on opposite sides of the political aisle. Donald “Trump had the upper hand this evening,” she said, citing his command of the back-and-forth between him and Hillary Clinton.

Reed, 35, is a registered Democrat and small businessman. “By the end of the debate, Clinton never said a thing to persuade me that she had anything to offer me or my family or my community,” he said, sitting at the same bar that has boasted local icons as regulars, such as the late Fred Rogers, and Arnold Palmer, who had his own stash of PM Whiskey hidden behind newer bottles of whiskey for his regular visits.

“Have to say Trump had the edge this evening, he came out swinging but also talked about specifics on jobs and the economy,” Reed said.

Reed said Clinton came across as either smug or as though she was reading her résumé, adding there was nothing on her résumé that touched on his life. “I am a small businessman, a farmer, come from a long line of farmers and coal miners. The policies she talked about tonight ultimately either hurt me or ignore me,” he said.

More at

http://nypost.com/2016/09/26/the-best-debate-takes-come-from-inside-the-bar/

[Jackstar]

One can hope, anyway.

Are you saying that you think that those performances were legit? Honestly curious.

[21st Century Man]

Are you saying that you think that those performances were legit? Honestly curious.

Does Hillary ever do anything legit?  No, she came across as pompous.  As for Trump, he could have done better, IMHO.

[Jackstar]

Sure right but my contention is that both of them were playing scripted parts that were wholly made up ahead of time.

Haven't you ever watched Curb Your Enthusiasm?

[area51drone]

they didn't mention bellgab.  fuck 'em.

can we please ban all links to USA Today for the foreseeable future?

[Jackstar]

can we please ban all sockpuppets?

You, Sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

[21st Century Man]

Sure right but my contention is that both of them were playing scripted parts that were wholly made up ahead of time.

Haven't you ever watched Curb Your Enthusiasm?

Maybe so.  I haven't ruled that out yet.  As for CYE, no. I don't watch much series tv.

[Rix Gins]

The highlight for me was when Hillary did that funny shoulder jiggle thing.  Kind of sexual in an oddball way. 

[mikuthing01]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe3PVAXVg08

[Astrid Galactic]

The two problems with the American economy are government interference and Americans are increasingly becoming worthless

The biggest problem with business in America is the government chokes out small business and innovation. When I was a kid growing up in Bill's America, the backbone of the economy was small business. The majority of businesses were small business and virtually everyone I knew had their own business or side business. Then the worst President in American history George W. Bush decided to murder small business and then the Democrats came along and set the corpse on fire. Now with the way our economy is structured with a retarded 35% federal business tax, income taxes, Obamacare, whatever insane federal fees on top of state taxes and whatever insane laws they have. This has grounded the economy virtually to a halt and gangfucked the independence of Americans. It is now next to impossible to start a new traditional business without risking several years of financial ruin should it fail. Combined with the falling value of the dollar and the rising costs of living, we've created an atmosphere where only large corporations who are in bed with the government can survive.

Idiot socialists want you to keep squeezing business owners because they want you thinking in a rich vs. poor dynamic. But they're removing the average person's ability to be a capitalist and control their own financial destiny while ensuring only large corporations who are in bed with the government can survive. Not only is this horrible for what it's doing to us the people but it's destroying innovation in this country as now innovators can't compete with the monopolies who are large enough to own the marketplace.

Also, we are living through one of the worst generations America has ever produced. Millennials are not as strong, not as smart and not as self-reliant as previous generations. As much as half of the country isn't functioning at the moment. Whether it's a failed economy, a failed education system, or a failed mental health system. Americans are fucked up in record numbers. The system simply cannot sustain this. On top of that, Millenials are lazy, naive, largely worthless people. This results in the quality of work and innovation drastically falling off on top of all the welfare and infrastructure ramifications of half the country not functioning.

For the most part, I pretty much agree with most of this, especially what was detailed about the inability of the common man to start up and maintain a business, and I believe that is mostly all by intentional design.

However, I cannot and will not agree about millenials. Sure, there are plenty of them who are out of their minds lazy brats but I think you can find that just as easily in all generations. At least, while they were in their youth. I know we boomers sure had our share. Of course, there is a certain amount of lack of do-it-yourself abilities, or even desire to know, compared with older generations due to changes in more modern technologies. In the meantime, the younger generations have an upper hand with simple technologies that we and our parents didn't have. All in all, I lean towards believing there's shades of differences with some trade-offs.

In some ways, I've seen some ways where I think there have been some improvements. In no way enough more to claim they are better either. Of course, I tend to think their politics are bat shit ridiculously crazy but that's something that tends to be common with youth of any generation. It tends to need age and experience to understand how such big picture systems work, how, and why. Younger people tend to be more self-interested without a sense of how things effect everyone and how it all can reasonably be maintained. You all remember that concept about being liberal when younger and conservative with age. Don't think it's necessarily that direct a switch but it does often take the wisdom of age to understand that we need to work within budgets and how some choices aren't necessarily wise for it's effects on others or even oneself. Also, youth tend to be much more idealistic and altruistic. Age makes one become more realistic.

Even though I'm certainly up there, maybe I'm not enough of an old fart to be that cynical (and I'm generally pretty damned cynical!) towards youth. I've always gotten along very well with them and intend to continue to all the way to the end. - Just stay off my damned lawn!!! (I don't even have a lawn but do have one hell of a backyard.)

[GuerrillaUnReal]

Went to Wal-Mart this morning to buy groceries. Wasn't even thinking about it but the entire store was buzzing about the debates. I must have eavesdropped on four or five conversations while wandering around the store.

Didn't hear a single positive word about Hillary. Kind of blew my mind actually. The general sentiment I picked up was Trump did well talking about the economy and Hillary came off as an elitist or as one woman put it "Trump sounded good, Hillary sounded like she was on a Jr. High debate team."

I don't think the establishment realizes how much people hate her. The debates didn't seem to have anything but a negative effect on the normies.

[Astrid Galactic]

The highlight for me was when Hillary did that funny shoulder jiggle thing.  Kind of sexual in an oddball way.

Uhhh... How can I say this?.... You've got issues, boy.

[Jackstar]

I don't watch much series tv.

You're wiser than I am. However, I maintain a dedicated fascination with how such things are created.

Now, to the point: I do not believe that both actors were simply standing up there reading a script line-by-line, however, I do 100% believe that last night's event was 100% scripted.

As you have seemingly not come around to this point of view (yet), perhaps you could share with us and the rest of the class; what about last night's circus seemed genuine to you?

[Jackstar]

I don't think the establishment realizes how much people hate her.

I don't think you realize just how many weeks ago that the outcome of this election was predetermined.