The Other Side of Midnight - Richard C. Hoagland - Live Chat Thread

[Nobody]

what should I ask him?

When he's finally going to get around to discussing 1950s sci-fi as advertised.

Tonight started out with so much promise.

[Happier Times are Coming]

YUP...and Trump wants to kill all trans! lol

what are trans ?

[Lilith]

listening on fone
did his show just begin ?
Ben was just introduced
KIYQ 107.1 ?

Started an hour ago Happy.

[deviant aristocrat]

I can't believe Hoagland just claimed to be a consultant for the original Star Trek.

Now I've heard everything.  :

LOL, take a good long whiff of this bullshit...


Dubious Claims for Due Credit

On July 6, 1990, Hoagland accused Omni magazine of "the height of editorial irresponsibility." What prompted him to vent his outrage to the international FTP audience? In its July article about a hypothetical "Mars Rover" mission to Cydonia, according to Hoagland the magazine "ascribed to Carl Sagan [my] work on . . . the pyramids and all the other things that are there." But the article referred to the "face" as merely a "mesa . . . named for its resemblance to human features," not as an artificial structure. And there were no references to the rest of Hoagland's "work," although Sagan did refer, metaphorically, to the region's mile-high mountains as "beckoning pyramids."

Speaking of Sagan, the Pioneer 10 plaque and its elegant message (right) have always to me epitomized his poetic genius. But Hoagland told the FTP audience on July 13, 1990, that "Carl for many years has been taking public credit for the Pioneer plaque which, of course, Eric Burgess and I conceived." On a broadcast later that year (November 16) he added that "Carl . . . was involved with Eric Burgess and me in the design of [the] message." And in the publisher's foreword to The Monuments of Mars we find this passage:

Among Hoagland's most valued contributions to history and science is the conception, along with Eric Burgess, of Mankind's First Interstellar Message in 1971, an engraved plaque carried beyond the solar system by the first man-made object to escape from the sun's influence, Pioneer 10. Hoagland and Burgess took the idea to Carl Sagan, who successfully executed it aboard the spacecraft and acknowledged their creation in the prestigious journal Science.
When I inquired of Carl Sagan as to the precise nature of Hoagland's role in the "creation" and "design" of the Pioneer 10 plaque, Sagan's reply of September 6, 1990, made clear that "Eric Burgess and Richard Hoagland did no more than suggest to me that a message be put aboard Pioneer 10 and 11. Frank Drake and I, with an assist from Linda Sagan [Carl's wife at the time, who prepared the artwork], did the design, and I was responsible for getting it through the NASA and White House approval process. . . . [Hoagland] did not contribute one bit of data towards the message design."

Frank Drake confirmed Sagan's account (September 27 and October 18): "Neither Eric Burgess nor Richard Hoagland contributed any ideas or even suggestions as to what should be on the Pioneer 10, and no suggestions as to any message content. They did point out that Pioneer 10 was going to leave the solar system and it would be nice to put some form of message on it. That was as far as their involvement went. I am sure that Eric Burgess would be glad to confirm this. . . . The idea that there should be an engraved plaque, and the type of information which should be engraved, was developed mutually by Carl and me. . . . I remember very clearly that we started with completely open minds as to what the message should be, and without any prior suggestions as to possible message content."

In a note of acknowledgements (see right) at the conclusion of Sagan and Drake's February 25, 1972, Science article entitled "A Message from Earth," Burgess and Hoagland are credited with the "initial suggestion to include some message aboard Pioneer 10." But as Hoagland acknowledges on page 98 of his own book, it was actually Burgess who first said to Hoagland, "It ought to carry a message." (Then, on the next line, Hoagland claims that he had already thought of the idea: "That was the unvoiced thought, which had been nagging at me ever since I'd gazed in through [the craft's] thick quartz windows" (italics in original).

At Drake's suggestion, and thanks to his tip in helping me locate Eric Burgess (who had been a writer for the Christian Science Monitor at the time of the Pioneer 10 project), I telephoned Burgess, who told me the following (and subsequently mailed me a copy of the epilog to his 1982 book, By Jupiter: Odysseys to a Giant, in which he recounts a virtually identical sequence of events):

I came up with the idea [that the craft carry a message from Earth]. And I mentioned it [at lunch that afternoon] to Hoagland [then a freelance writer] and Don Bane [Los Angeles Herald Examiner ]. . . . And I said that the right man to get this onboard would be Carl Sagan. So I went around to JPL [NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory] -- Hoagland was in tow with me -- and found Sagan. . . . And I said, "Hey, Carl, I've got an idea for you." All Hoagland did was support me and say it's a good idea.  [June 2011 Update: Jerry Pournelle has similar recollections.]

[chefist]

When he's finally going to get around to discussing 1950s sci-fi as advertised.

Tonight started out with so much promise.

lol...which number is best to call?

[Happier Times are Coming]

Started an hour ago Happy.

thanx
maybe phone starts at beginning ?

[Happier Times are Coming]

rerun ?
just announcing guest
talked about the election and Hillary

[ZaZa]

Richard Syrett on C2C has good show happening now, in case you are sick of this tranny-Hoagie.

[AlternativeSide]

what are trans ?

Embrace who you really are and transition from Coast to Coast AM to The Other Side of Midnight... 

[albrecht]

The OSOM listen by your phone actually seems to work ok. Who knows what kind of scheme for charging but I *67 before so, hopefully, not get weird charges (like a mysterious "19.5" charged many times.) But it works. And better than the streaming, SW, AM/FM or etc from these types of shows.
Luckily I missed the tranny talk but was Sean David Morton actually mentioned? By RCH or a caller yet? That would be funny.

[Lilith]

rerun ?
just announcing guest
talked about the election and Hillary

He started out talking about John McCain, and is now talking about Science Fiction.

[Dr. MD MD]

He started out talking about John McCain, and is now talking about Science Fiction.

Is it worthy of me turning back on, brig? 

[Nobody]

rerun ?
just announcing guest
talked about the election and Hillary

If the guest is Ben Hansen, you are hearing last night's broadcast.

[Lilith]

Is it worthy of me turning back on, brig? 

Probably if you like Science Fiction. 

L Ron Hubbard being discussed now.

[ZaZa]

what are trans ?

tranny  trannie
Slang: Disparaging and Offensive.
1. a contemptuous term used to refer to a transvestite, a transsexual, or a transgender person.
Origin. First recorded in 1960-65; by shortening and alteration.

[Lilith]

If the guest is Ben Hansen, you are hearing last night's broadcast.

Happy is probably using the wrong number.  One is for live, the other is for reruns.

[deviant aristocrat]

If the guest is Ben Hansen, you are hearing last night's broadcast.

Imagine if Hoagland was caught on tape and wrangled by Chris Hansen/To Catch a Predator?

[albrecht]

Imagine if Hoagland was caught on tape and wrangled by Chris Hansen/To Catch a Predator?

Or he was caught like Chris Hansen, with not an underage girl, but just with someone not his 'paramour' (or wife or whatever the RCH\Robin relationship is?)

[Dr. MD MD]

Prolific is one thing but have you actually tried to read his scif? It's pretty horrible.  :

[Nobody]

Happy is probably using the wrong number.  One is for live, the other is for reruns.

The way tonight has gone, he might be better off with a rerun. 

[Nobody]

Prolific is one thing but have you actually tried to read his scif? It's pretty horrible.  :

I don't know if you heard the show that featured Tony Ortega (Scientology debunker) as guest, but it quickly became obvious that Hoagland has a severe man-crush on Hubbard due to the fact that Hubbard went on to a second career as a wealthy cult leader after a first career as a crap writer.

Hoagland has the first part down all right, but can't work out how to make the second part happen.

[ZaZa]

The way tonight has gone, he might be better off with a rerun. 

lol

[albrecht]

I don't know if you heard the show that featured Tony Ortega as guest, but it quickly became obvious that Hoagland has a severe man-crush on Hubbard due to the fact that Hubbard went on to a second career as a wealthy cult leader after a first career as a crap writer.

Hoagland has the first part down, all right, but can't work out how to make the second part happen.

And I thought he was more jealous of how that Ortega cat made a bunch of $ on a "mexican" food products, seasonings, sauces, and, primarily, taco shells into American homes! Taco Tuesdays and all that nonsense.

[Dr. MD MD]

So, I take it his guest is a Scientologist then? 

[Nobody]

And I thought he was more jealous of how that Ortega cat made a bunch of $ on a "mexican" food products, seasonings, sauces, and, primarily, taco shells into American homes! Taco Tuesdays and all that nonsense.

Rumour has it that Hoagland is anxious to get Tranny Thursdays established in the US. 

[Morgus]

Hoagie tonight claimed he got Roddenberry to change the term "standard orbit" to "synchronous orbit" on the original Star Trek in its 3rd season...

[Lilith]

So, I take it his guest is a Scientologist then? 

He just said he's an atheist, and doesn't belong to any church. 

[Dr. MD MD]

Yeah, the people at Jonestown seemed happy too...asshole!  :

Goodnight all.

[albrecht]

Rumour has it that Hoagland is anxious to get Tranny Thursdays established in the US.

Maybe under the torsion model but Obama tried with much more mojo and hasn't really taken off in normal areas, even with the Hollywood help. 19.5 though and the upcoming eclipse? 

[ZaZa]

Rumour has it that Hoagland is anxious to get Tranny Thursdays established in the US.

LOL !! !!