Time to consider "Worst Administration Ever"?

[NowhereInTime]

Is there still a point to the Obama Administration?  Was there ever?

Anyone know what his foreign policy doctrine is?  Or his plans to get the economy going? 

Nothing fixed or even being addressed, National Debt up $6-7 trillion (and climbing), are we getting anything for that?

A halt to the economic implosion,  the restoration of Fannie & Freddie, AIG returned to the private sector,  GM saved, monthly job growth vs monthly job loss, an end to Iraq & a close to Afghan war, Stuxnet to set back Iran, the end of Osama bin Laden, healthcare for people who need it,  toughening SEC to limit further market dalliance, Russia & China limited in world influence. I could go on but the point is made.  The most important point? An end to conservative mismanagement.

[Sardondi]

A halt to the economic implosion,  the restoration of Fannie & Freddie, AIG returned to the private sector,  GM saved, monthly job growth vs monthly job loss, an end to Iraq & a close to Afghan war, Stuxnet to set back Iran, the end of Osama bin Laden, healthcare for people who need it,  toughening SEC to limit further market dalliance, Russia & China limited in world influence. I could go on but the point is made.  The most important point? An end to conservative mismanagement.

The mind boggles at these claims. "A halt to the economic implosion"? Have you been outside in the past 5 years? "The restoration of Fannie and Freddie"? Seriously, you claim this as an achievement? (BTW, I read this article today about how the move to finally kill Freddie and Fannie looks like it might finally succeed. http://pjmedia.com/blog/are-we-nearing-the-end-of-fannie-and-freddie/) "GM saved"? Heh. Right. That's why I see so many Chevys, Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles being sold out there. "Monthly job growth vs. monthly job loss"? Oh, come on. How can you even pretend this is so? Do you not see that Obama has essentially destroyed the US economy? That he has permanently changed the way we work, from 40-hr a week full time jobs to 29-hour part time jobs? Not to mention that he almost singlehandedly destroyed the health insurance industry, and that because of it the job with medical benefits has as much future as newspapers? And you seriously claim these are good things? The rest of your points ar even more silly and false. Man, I'm sorry, but this is nigh on delusional.

[bateman]

A halt to the economic implosion,  the restoration of Fannie & Freddie, AIG returned to the private sector,  GM saved, monthly job growth vs monthly job loss, an end to Iraq & a close to Afghan war, Stuxnet to set back Iran, the end of Osama bin Laden, healthcare for people who need it,  toughening SEC to limit further market dalliance, Russia & China limited in world influence. I could go on but the point is made.  The most important point? An end to conservative mismanagement.

Jesus, where do I even start with this. Let's try economic issues/SEC first:

The administration papered over the rot. The fundamental, structural problems of our economy are still very much there, and much worse than they were in even 2008-2009. What do you think is going to happen when interest rates finally go up? What happens when the next bubble inevitably bursts?

The multi-trillion-dollar derivatives market is STILL almost completely unregulated, and even if the SEC is peripherally aware of it, they sure as fuck don't understand it. No one who works for the SEC is exactly a rocket scientist, whereas firms like Goldman Sachs ACTUALLY EMPLOY former rocket scientists to come up with financial schemes that amount to modern day alchemy.

healthcare for people who need it

At what cost? I'll answer: higher cost. In some cases, MUCH higher cost. Sure, they can't deny you for your preexisting condition, but you'll pay 4 grand a month. Good luck with that.

Russia & China limited in world influence.

Do you read the news at all..? For starters, are you aware of the term "proxy war"?

I could go on but the point is made.  The most important point? An end to conservative mismanagement.

Boy, that is some strong Kool Aid you're drinking. No, the point is not made at all. Not even close. And as far as an "end to conservative mismanagement", you are aware that Obama vastly expanded Bush-era spying programs..? Expansions that Democrats would've cried bloody murder over a mere 6 years ago. Codifying illegality by secret courts & edict. This is the guy you voted for? This is the guy you still support? How do you reconcile his innumerable about-faces since taking office? The guy is Bush on Steroids but you think he's some Progressive Savior. Marketing really does work, huh.

[Sardondi]

Heh. Conan's joke tonight:

Syria's Assad called Obama "weak." Obama was so angry he plans to ask Congress for permission to think up a good comeback.

[FightTheFuture]

Three things to consider:

1. Fewer people in the workforce today than when Caesar Obamus regime came to power.

2. Obamuscare has already begun negatively impacting small business, which, among other things, has resulted in reduced work weeks for many employees and layoffs for others.

3. Real estate market is falsely perceived as ''recovering'', which is due primarily to large numbers of cash investors, waiting on the sidelines for the right time, have finally begun scooping up inventory, resulting in a rise in prices and interest rates.  It won't last.



Conclusion: Employment is not improving, and in fact, worsening. That will inevitably result in a classic double-dip in real estate market, sending banks into another ''crisis'', albeit much smaller in scale than 2008-9. NOT a rosy scenario.



Sent from my HTC MyTouch 4G slide...please excuse any typos

[FightTheFuture]

And this morning in Sweden, Obama, says he did no such thing as establish a "redline."


I have a career suggestion for the future soon-to-be-unemployed man-child currently occupying our House. I think he would be a perfect fit:


[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTl9zYS3_dc#]Argument Clinic - Monty Python]Argument Clinic - Monty Python

[Yorkshire pud]

And this morning in Sweden, Obama, says he did no such thing as establish a "redline."

He's not a happy chappy...less articulate than usual..stumbling over things; Jeeze it's Bush II again!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23962413

[ItsOver]

...The guy is Bush on Steroids but you think he's some Progressive Savior. Marketing really does work, huh.

Time once again for an appropriate video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0#

[Juan]

It's interesting that one of these guys (or gals) shows up every few months, does a lot of name calling as though he or she were posting on Josh Marshall's site or Democratic Underground, and then gets upset when challenged with facts.

As for healthcare for everyone - not for me.  The EPA (yes, the EPA) banned the manufacture of my asthma medicine. That's the kind of caring and sensitive healthcare we're getting now.

[NowhereInTime]

It's interesting that one of these guys (or gals) shows up every few months, does a lot of name calling as though he or she were posting on Josh Marshall's site or Democratic Underground, and then gets upset when challenged with facts.

As for healthcare for everyone - not for me.  The EPA (yes, the EPA) banned the manufacture of my asthma medicine. That's the kind of caring and sensitive healthcare we're getting now.

What's even more fascinating is that when anyone on the left makes a point around here the three wisemen jump up with their preconceived assertions as foundation for their counterargument. 

Three things to consider:

1. Fewer people in the workforce today than when Caesar Obamus regime came to power.

2. Obamuscare has already begun negatively impacting small business, which, among other things, has resulted in reduced work weeks for many employees and layoffs for others.

3. Real estate market is falsely perceived as ''recovering'', which is due primarily to large numbers of cash investors, waiting on the sidelines for the right time, have finally begun scooping up inventory, resulting in a rise in prices and interest rates.  It won't last.



Conclusion: Employment is not improving, and in fact, worsening. That will inevitably result in a classic double-dip in real estate market, sending banks into another ''crisis'', albeit much smaller in scale than 2008-9. NOT a rosy scenario.



Sent from my HTC MyTouch 4G slide...please excuse any typos

Fewer people because of the overwhelming job loss caused by the anticipation of how bad the economy would be post collapse.  Job losses continued into third quarter 2009. It's called fallout.  Just because wechaned administrations on 1/20/09 didn't mean a magic portal was passed through. Yet since "Caesar" (and I love how you guys always need to demean him) took office jobs have rebounded.  Not greatly.  Not even satisfactorily.  But you guys need to carry some of the freight there, too.  The teabag-bratfest infecting the House will not Obama attempt any kind of a jobs plan.  He has to do things administratively, which means on a limited basis.   Your great business illuminati are sitting on stacks of cash; corporate profits are at all time highs yet, no hiring.  Downsizing, yes. Streamlining, yes.  Outsourcing, of course.  Yet somehow this is Obama's fault. 
Obamacare is being met, as was Social Security and Medicare, with FEAR.  Thanks to you and your cohort, you've got the world convinced that Obamacare is nothing more than a plan to destroy the noble small businessman when nothing further is the truth.
"Real estate market is falsely perceived"  Jesus H. Christ even when your own media outlets report growth in Real Estate pricing and home starts, you have to create your own bullshit scenario where its all a Lib conspiracy! 
I make the point time and again.  You fail to convince because most of your assertion start form mistruths or presumptions.  READ THE DAMN WALL STREET JOURNAL!

[bateman]

Obamacare is being met, as was Social Security and Medicare, with FEAR.  Thanks to you and your cohort, you've got the world convinced that Obamacare is nothing more than a plan to destroy the noble small businessman when nothing further is the truth.

Yeah, about that.. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/10/sen-harry-reid-obamacare-absolutely-a-step-toward-a-single-payer-system/

"Real estate market is falsely perceived"  Jesus H. Christ even when your own media outlets report growth in Real Estate pricing and home starts, you have to create your own bullshit scenario where its all a Lib conspiracy! 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/morganbrennan/2013/06/24/3-reasons-the-bubble-like-surge-in-home-prices-wont-last/

Economists warn that the dramatic price surges of the past several months aren’t sustainable. NAR chief economist Lawrence Yun, for example, warns that price growth is “too fast.”

If home prices were to continue growing by such leaps and bounds, the possibility of a bubble would truly need to be taken seriously. But use of the B word is still painfully premature, especially as some states like New York and New Jersey continue to wade through a mound of foreclosures.

Home prices are significantly overvalued in many key markets. And as I pointed out earlier, which you seemed to have glossed over, get ready for fireworks when interest rates go up. Many families are already turning to adjustable-rate mortgages. Remember those?

I make the point time and again.  You fail to convince because most of your assertion start form mistruths or presumptions.  READ THE DAMN WALL STREET JOURNAL!

Funny you should reference that one, because you clearly don't read it yourself. I talk to members of the Editorial Board on a weekly basis. They sure don't share your rosy view of this president's economic policies.

[NowhereInTime]

Jesus, where do I even start with this. Let's try economic issues/SEC first:

The administration papered over the rot. The fundamental, structural problems of our economy are still very much there, and much worse than they were in even 2008-2009. What do you think is going to happen when interest rates finally go up? What happens when the next bubble inevitably bursts?

The multi-trillion-dollar derivatives market is STILL almost completely unregulated, and even if the SEC is peripherally aware of it, they sure as fuck don't understand it. No one who works for the SEC is exactly a rocket scientist, whereas firms like Goldman Sachs ACTUALLY EMPLOY former rocket scientists to come up with financial schemes that amount to modern day alchemy.

At what cost? I'll answer: higher cost. In some cases, MUCH higher cost. Sure, they can't deny you for your preexisting condition, but you'll pay 4 grand a month. Good luck with that.

Do you read the news at all..? For starters, are you aware of the term "proxy war"?

Boy, that is some strong Kool Aid you're drinking. No, the point is not made at all. Not even close. And as far as an "end to conservative mismanagement", you are aware that Obama vastly expanded Bush-era spying programs..? Expansions that Democrats would've cried bloody murder over a mere 6 years ago. Codifying illegality by secret courts & edict. This is the guy you voted for? This is the guy you still support? How do you reconcile his innumerable about-faces since taking office? The guy is Bush on Steroids but you think he's some Progressive Savior. Marketing really does work, huh.

Again, assertion after assertion...
Interest rates may finally go up, but no way in the next 12 to 15 months.  Summers is no fool; he knows that to try to wean off QE right now is disastrous.
You have absolutely no evidence of "higher cost" for anything in Obamacare.  If anything, coverage costs have gone DOWN in New York and California (about, what 50 million people all in? Google it.)
I read the news, I watch the news, I watch NBC, BBC America, read the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Atlantic, and, occasionally, the Economist.  Apparently you've never heard of "proxy war" because we had such a thing for fifty years after WW II except we called it "the Cold War."  We made a lot of bad decisions then, too.  Korea, Vietnam, Lebanon come to mind.  And yet, if you've EVER read anything from inside Soviet Intelligence, you'd know the Soviets knew they were done in the '70's.  They were able to bluff their way (inflatable tanks, reservist divisions of WW II vets seen on satellite) to Reykavik where they held out to end nuclear war.  Except St Ronald wouldn't yield Star Wars.  Soviets collapsed anyway. (Thanks, Afghanistan.)
Speaking of "proxy war" why do you think Japan is suddenly reconstituting their armed forces? China's bubble is about to burst and they want to be energy self sufficient, hence the stare downs in the South China sea. Japanese know they have to show force as our proxy.
Obviously this game is way over your head.
Lastly, in case you haven't noticed, I and most of the left deplored the NSA revelations.  But to assert that Obama "vastly expanded" their reach is both naive and historically incorrect.  He did, however, maintain Cheney-era levels of privacy invasion.

The mind boggles at these claims. "A halt to the economic implosion"? Have you been outside in the past 5 years? "The restoration of Fannie and Freddie"? Seriously, you claim this as an achievement? (BTW, I read this article today about how the move to finally kill Freddie and Fannie looks like it might finally succeed. http://pjmedia.com/blog/are-we-nearing-the-end-of-fannie-and-freddie/) "GM saved"? Heh. Right. That's why I see so many Chevys, Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles being sold out there. "Monthly job growth vs. monthly job loss"? Oh, come on. How can you even pretend this is so? Do you not see that Obama has essentially destroyed the US economy? That he has permanently changed the way we work, from 40-hr a week full time jobs to 29-hour part time jobs? Not to mention that he almost singlehandedly destroyed the health insurance industry, and that because of it the job with medical benefits has as much future as newspapers? And you seriously claim these are good things? The rest of your points ar even more silly and false. Man, I'm sorry, but this is nigh on delusional.

Actually, Chrysler today reported a 12% growth in sales in August.  (I miss Oldsmobiles, they were elegant cars but gas guzzlers.)
Your naivete knows no bounds.  The downsizing of the American workforce has been underway since Reagan fired the air traffic controllers and the unions sat back and drooled.  Clinton was more responsible (NAFTA) for this than Obama and not half as responsible as Reagan and W.  The corporate elite have been outsourcing since the deregulation friendly 1980's when "M&A" joined the lexicon and destroyed competition.
You know, Sardondi, you may be right.  A job with medical benefits may, in fact, be a thing of the past soon, but access to affordable health care will not be.  That's the important point.  Maybe, just maybe, American businesses, if they do not have to pay for(or more importantly, pay to administer) costly health plans that lard up on pricing because of company payments, will be able to grow faster and pay better wages.  The health care exchanges will offer competition between health plans that will force them to be more efficient and offer better value. What gets me is how a con like you doesn't see the value in it.  As to the "29 hour work week" I don't want to hear it from you.  That's been a reality at least in my 20 year career in the highest employment sector of our economy - service/retail. Retailers have been dogging benefits forever on workers and with the infux of immigrants the last 25 years wages have deteriorated, too.
The "move to kill" Fannie and Freddie will fail - they're larding up the coffers for Congress to much right now, just as AIG did.  You can always dream, though.
Lastly, I'll take my fact and evidence "delusions" over your preposterous assertions, any day. "Single handedly destroyed the health insurance industry"  God, at least hyperbole is not dead.

[NowhereInTime]

Yeah, about that.. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/10/sen-harry-reid-obamacare-absolutely-a-step-toward-a-single-payer-system/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/morganbrennan/2013/06/24/3-reasons-the-bubble-like-surge-in-home-prices-wont-last/

Home prices are significantly overvalued in many key markets. And as I pointed out earlier, which you seemed to have glossed over, get ready for fireworks when interest rates go up. Many families are already turning to adjustable-rate mortgages. Remember those?

Funny you should reference that one, because you clearly don't read it yourself. I talk to members of the Editorial Board on a weekly basis. They sure don't share your rosy view of this president's economic policies.

Of course they don't.  I'm not talking about the Editorial Page.  Read the Marketplace, Read Money and Investing, read the News portions.  Watch CNBC or even FBN.  Nowhere is anyone calling this a "false" recovery in housing.  You guys have been calling for the interest rate doomsday for 5 years now.  And I didn't "gloss it over" I said what people like Jim Cramer have said over and again and that is the Fed will not move on interest rates or quantitative easing until there is a real floor under the employment market.  There is no pressure for rates to rise, even with this growth in housing.
In fact, Nightly Business Report reported last night that auto loaners are starting to loan to subprimes again, because of a dearth in the demand for credit.
Reality trumps presumption every time.
(And I'd love a single payer system.)

[bateman]

I'll ignore your own baseless assertions & ad hominem attacks while I provide you with some helpful links to peruse at your leisure.

Interest rates may finally go up, but no way in the next 12 to 15 months.  Summers is no fool; he knows that to try to wean off QE right now is disastrous.

Why are treasury yields at an almost 2-year high, anticipating the tapering you seem to think isn't coming anytime soon..?

You have absolutely no evidence of "higher cost" for anything in Obamacare.  If anything, coverage costs have gone DOWN in New York and California (about, what 50 million people all in? Google it.)

Really? Premiums in Wisconsin alone have gone up something like 125%.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-health-care-premiums-increase-125-wisconsin-due-obamacare_752709.html

Speaking of "proxy war" why do you think Japan is suddenly reconstituting their armed forces? China's bubble is about to burst and they want to be energy self sufficient, hence the stare downs in the South China sea. Japanese know they have to show force as our proxy.

You're right about one thing: the Chinese bubble about to burst, and the Japanese are arming up because of something you dismissed in another thread as "China sputtering around threatening Vietnam." Chinese belligerence & bullying of its neighbors is at an all-time high.

... the New York Times reported that China’s mapping authority, Sinomaps Press, issued a new map of the country showing 80% of the South China Sea as internal Chinese water.

What’s at issue?  Each year, more than half of the world’s annual merchant tonnage passes through the South China Sea as well as a third of the global trade in crude oil and over half of LNG trade.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2013/06/02/china-and-the-biggest-territory-grab-since-world-war-ii/

Lastly, in case you haven't noticed, I and most of the left deplored the NSA revelations.  But to assert that Obama "vastly expanded" their reach is both naive and historically incorrect.

A question: have the spying programs been reigned in, or have they metastasized under Obama? His administration has pushed for more authority at every turn. The technology is advancing faster than the laws, and the feds are using that foot in the door as an excuse to take the whole door off the hinges. What meager protections have been in place, are blatantly ignored by NSA. Not once or twice. Thousands of times, by their own admission.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/obama-expands-bush-data-mining-program/

[bateman]

until there is a real floor under the employment market.

You might be waiting a while.

[NowhereInTime]

I'll ignore your own baseless assertions & ad hominem attacks while I provide you with some helpful links to peruse at your leisure.

Why are treasury yields at an almost 2-year high, anticipating the tapering you seem to think isn't coming anytime soon..?

Really? Premiums in Wisconsin alone have gone up something like 125%.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-health-care-premiums-increase-125-wisconsin-due-obamacare_752709.html

You're right about one thing: the Chinese bubble about to burst, and the Japanese are arming up because of something you dismissed in another thread as "China sputtering around threatening Vietnam." Chinese belligerence & bullying of its neighbors is at an all-time high.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2013/06/02/china-and-the-biggest-territory-grab-since-world-war-ii/

A question: have the spying programs been reigned in, or have they metastasized under Obama? His administration has pushed for more authority at every turn. The technology is advancing faster than the laws, and the feds are using that foot in the door as an excuse to take the whole door off the hinges. What meager protections have been in place, are blatantly ignored by NSA. Not once or twice. Thousands of times, by their own admission.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/obama-expands-bush-data-mining-program/

Yes, the Treasury yields reflect precisely my point about the cycnicism of Wall Street and the Marketplace.  It is the ANTICPATION (not the actuality, mind you) of a sudden surge in rates.  Again, the Fed has only mentioned in passing the possibility of rates beginning to rise somewhere in 2015.

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/09/04/this-is-the-feds-4-step-path-to-exiting-qe-and-raising-rates-socgen/?mod=MW_latest_news   
- And this is projected by Soc Gen -it seems rational.

I'm not sure why Wisconsin is such an outlier, especially since Michigan finally threw in the towel and went all in.  Also, this from the AP:

http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/story/cef87eb7965043b88c97264f58d7d287/US--Health-Overhaul-Premiums/

An average of $330 a month for a 40 year old.  I pay nearly $250 now on my co-pay, forget what my employer is paying!

As for China, where is our disagreement?  They've been beating the drums about South China Sea forever.  They fought a war with the Vietnamese in 1979 and were embarassed.  The Japanese are still in their psyche.  What exactly does China have to enforce their claim? They're building boats but so are the Japanese, the Philippinos, and the Vietnamese.  I'm not sure where your counterpoint does anything but flesh out my point, which frankly gives me great relief.  This may eventually come to blows and that would suck, but I doubt it.  The Chinese are smart enough to know they could negotiate for more than they could ever conquer.  Look how easy it was to take back Hong Kong from John Bull!

PS-I hate Kool Aid.

[FightTheFuture]

Even Dear Leader's most sycophantic admirer, that disgusting, fat, little troll, Richard Trunka,  knows how disastrous Obamuscare is. And he helped write it,  even had his thugs beat people down, in order to see his Dear Leader pass it in the dark of night.



http://m.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/09/04/afl-cio-president-trumka-employers-restructuring-workforce-29-12-hour] [url]http://m.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/09/04/afl-cio-president-trumka-employers-restructuring-workforce-29-12-hour [/url]

[Sardondi]

From the IRS's Inspector General's investigation into IRS abuses of unequal enforcement based on partisan and ideological grounds, we learn that in February 2011 the IRS's then-chief of tax exempt section, Lois Lerner, in setting up guidelines for who she wanted to receive extra scrutiny of fitness for tax exempt status, accused Tea Party groups of being "very dangerous". But they were in good company: she also said she wanted groups focused on government spending, government debt, taxes, and education to receive extra IRS scrutiny. Worse, she even wanted groups focused on ways to “make America a better place to live” and groups whose file included criticism of “how the country is being run”. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324549004579068914192280866.html?mod=wsj_share_tweet

It's just foul. Democrats, and of course the media, would have been demanding wholesale resignations, investigations, even impeachment, had this occurred more than 5 years ago. But it's just conservatives, and the Constitution doesn't apply to them. Vile.

[Unquenchable Angst]

Some men carry and handle their diplomacy better than others........When former U.S. Military commander in Afghanistan, Stanley McChrystal, was called into the Oval Office by Barack Obama, he knew things weren't going to go well when the President accused him of not supporting him in his political role as President.
"It's not my job to support you as a politician, Mr. President, it's my job to support you as Commander-in-Chief," McChrystal replied, and he handed Obama his resignation.
Not satisfied with accepting McChrystal's resignation the President made a cheap parting shot. "I bet when I die you'll be happy to pee on my grave."
The General saluted. "Mr. President, I always told myself after leaving the Army I'd never stand in line again."

[Sardondi]

BREAKING NEWS: US Consulate in Afghanistan Under Attack  http://www.mediaite.com/online/breaking-u-s-consulate-in-afghanistan-under-attack/

I don't know what the big deal is: I'm sure Susan Rice is going to tell us in a few hours it's nothing but a purely local and spontaneous reaction to the fact a preacher in Florida was stopped* from burning 2,998 copies of the Quran. Jeez, go to sleep: Obama is.



*The preacher was charged with "transporting fuel illegally". This kind of pretextual, bogus charge often goes by the name of "high botchery". Apparently no one involved in the arrest of the preacher is embarrassed by the plainly evident fact that no persone threatening to burn any number of Bibles would have been charged with anything. "First they came..."

[NowhereInTime]

It's just foul. Democrats, and of course the media, would have been demanding wholesale resignations, investigations, even impeachment, had this occurred more than 5 years ago. But it's just conservatives, and the Constitution doesn't apply to them. Vile.

Well, no.  It's just that, as conservatives, you're all "strict constructionalists" and maintain the "integrity of the founders".  The rest of us figure you'll pull yourselves up by your bootstraps and take care of this yourselves.

[Tinfoil Hat]

Gotta say Mr Obama is handling Syria with far more diplomacy and class than we've seen in a long time with these kinds of conflicts.

And yes, Syria aside, my disappointment in his sell-out administration has me in a deep depression.

[Juan]

It's funny to me to listen to the Republican center-right talk show hosts having a fit because the US is not bombing Syria.  It reminds me of why I'm not a Republican. They never answer what national interest the US has in Syria.  Maybe there is one.  They only talk about saving face.

[Sardondi]

It's funny to me to listen to the Republican center-right talk show hosts having a fit because the US is not bombing Syria.  It reminds me of why I'm not a Republican. They never answer what national interest the US has in Syria.  Maybe there is one.  They only talk about saving face.

I don't understand them. Is it that they've taken a vow to support every military action ever suggested?
------------------------------------------------------------------------

And there's more great news, brought to us by those wonderful folks in The Worst Administration Everâ,,¢. The Gallup Poll reports that Americans' confidence in the federal government to handle problems has reached an all-time low. http://www.gallup.com/poll/164393/fewer-americans-ever-trust-gov-handle-problems.aspx It should be noted that the drop in confidence, which, statistically, looks like a plunge off a cliff, has tracked the revelations of systematic abuses of authority and corruption by this administration. Americans have paid attention to what Obama has said and done, and the result is, they don't believe government can accomplish a damn thing. At least not with Obama in charge. 

A majority of Americans now have little or no confidence in the federal government to handle any problems before it. It's the lowest confidence level since Gallup began polling in your great grandfather's time. Think about what that means. Americans had greater confidence in government after the near market collapse of 1987. Americans had greater confidence in government during the darkest days of Iraq. Americans had greater confidence in government than even when Bush suffered his worst personal polling numbers.  Americans had greater confidence in government after Watergate.

How's that Hope n' Change goin' for ya?

[PB the Deplorable]

I don't understand them. Is it that they've taken a vow to support every military action ever suggested?
------------------------------------------------------------------------

And there's more great news, brought to us by those wonderful folks in The Worst Administration Everâ,,¢. The Gallup Poll reports that Americans' confidence in the federal government to handle problems has reached an all-time low. http://www.gallup.com/poll/164393/fewer-americans-ever-trust-gov-handle-problems.aspx It should be noted that the drop in confidence, which, statistically, looks like a plunge off a cliff, has tracked the revelations of systematic abuses of authority and corruption by this administration. Americans have paid attention to what Obama has said and done, and the result is, they don't believe government can accomplish a damn thing. At least not with Obama in charge. 

A majority of Americans now have little or no confidence in the federal government to handle any problems before it. It's the lowest confidence level since Gallup began polling in your great grandfather's time. Think about what that means. Americans had greater confidence in government after the near market collapse of 1987. Americans had greater confidence in government during the darkest days of Iraq. Americans had greater confidence in government than even when Bush suffered his worst personal polling numbers.  Americans had greater confidence in government after Watergate.

How's that Hope n' Change goin' for ya?

Maybe that's the silver lining in all this.  The Federal government can't be all and do all for everyone.  Politicians aren't experts on everything just because they know how to get themselves elected and the Media tells us they are.  It's good that more people are recognizing that.  Maybe that makes it easier down the line to eliminate much of the bureaucracy and paper pushing.

$1.5 trillion annual deficits, and the rest of the debt and future obligations at the Federal, state and local levels - nearly all of it racked up in just a few decades - the people in power collectively borrowed a vast un-repayable amount in order to bribe the middle class for votes, bribe the rich in exchange for comparably meager campaign contributions, to support far too many non-productive citizens and non-productive government employees.  Not to mention 2 high tech expensive stupid wars.  Not to mention the surveillance and 'security' here at home.

It has ruined us.  It certainly looks like Bush pushed us past the point of no return, and Obama moved the clock up by a decade or two.  It wasn't Wall St that killed the United States, it was Washington DC.

[onan]

It wasn't Wall St that killed the United States, it was Washington DC.

This type of argument is all too common. It is a false choice. In actuallity it was both, hand in hand, that have caused the rot of our country.

which came first is no longer an important issue for finding resolution. They both game the system, they both seek their own interests above the citizenry and they are both criminals before and after the fact.

I think much of the rancor on this thread has to do with the inability to see both sides of the street. Such as entitlements to the poor are bad but tax breaks and loopholes are par for the course. And most all the cast of characters here has their little patch of "I am right" and not willing to look beyond those boundaries.

[Juan]

This type of argument is all too common. It is a false choice. In actuallity it was both, hand in hand, that have caused the rot of our country.

Yes, read the book "Reckless Endangerment" - they're all in it.

[West of the Rockies]

A partial quote from Onan (post #505):  "I think much of the rancor on this thread has to do with the inability to see both sides of the street. Such as entitlements to the poor are bad but tax breaks and loopholes are par for the course. And most all the cast of characters here has their little patch of "I am right" and not willing to look beyond those boundaries."

I just commented on this issue in the "Politics" thread.  It's funny...  I think we all believe we are capable of considering "the other guy's point of view", but I see scant evidence of that.  It seems to be a case of, "I see your statistic that suggests the economy is improving and raise you an op-ed that says things are worse than ever!"  And as long as we all keep fighting over chicken scratch, the weasels of industry and politics and big business and the media keep reaching in and snatching away the gold.

Calls for a third party are great, but -- IMO -- at present pretty meaningless.  A third party would face insurmountable hurdles.  Oh, sure, every once in a while a TPer or a consumer advocate or other character makes  a little noise, maybe even wins a national seat (Ted Cruz?), but to what result?

[PB the Deplorable]

This type of argument is all too common. It is a false choice. In actuallity it was both, hand in hand, that have caused the rot of our country.

which came first is no longer an important issue for finding resolution. They both game the system, they both seek their own interests above the citizenry and they are both criminals before and after the fact.

I think much of the rancor on this thread has to do with the inability to see both sides of the street. Such as entitlements to the poor are bad but tax breaks and loopholes are par for the course. And most all the cast of characters here has their little patch of "I am right" and not willing to look beyond those boundaries.

Yes it is true that Wall St and Washington DC collude to rip us of and have together ruined the country.  Everything in my post is still accurate.

Here are a few reasons I emphasized the governments role in my post:

- It's the government that ultimately writes the checks, passes the laws, and writes the regulations - not Wall St.  Yes they buy influence, but it's the politicians that say yes or no to it.  The government officials are ultimately responsible.  Having said that I'd like to see all the crooks on Wall St and all the politicians in DC who have abused their authority rounded up and thrown in prison.

- Too many people believe that Wall St is responsible for all of it.  That's what we hear from the media and from the politicians themselves.  This mentality is probably what sank the very mediocre Romney and returned the loathsome Obama to the Presidency (the worst of 2 evils).  So the role of the politicians needs to be more widely circulated than it has been.

- The next step, after convincing everyone that Wall St alone is responsible for the corruption and the ruined economy, is to push for bigger government, more taxes, more rules, more intrusion into our lives.  Which is exactly the wrong conclusion that should be drawn, leading to more destructive policy.

- Since it is ultimately government officials writing the checks and passing the laws - and these are people we can collectively fire as citizens - this is the only area where we can make the necessary changes.  And thus should be our focus.

[PB the Deplorable]

A partial quote from Onan (post #505):  "I think much of the rancor on this thread has to do with the inability to see both sides of the street. Such as entitlements to the poor are bad but tax breaks and loopholes are par for the course. And most all the cast of characters here has their little patch of "I am right" and not willing to look beyond those boundaries."

I just commented on this issue in the "Politics" thread.  It's funny...  I think we all believe we are capable of considering "the other guy's point of view", but I see scant evidence of that.  It seems to be a case of, "I see your statistic that suggests the economy is improving and raise you an op-ed that says things are worse than ever!"  And as long as we all keep fighting over chicken scratch, the weasels of industry and politics and big business and the media keep reaching in and snatching away the gold.

Calls for a third party are great, but -- IMO -- at present pretty meaningless.  A third party would face insurmountable hurdles.  Oh, sure, every once in a while a TPer or a consumer advocate or other character makes  a little noise, maybe even wins a national seat (Ted Cruz?), but to what result?

These are all good points, especially the weasels distracting us while robbing us blind (to paraphrase).  I think most people are in general agreement when the superficial is stripped away and we get right down to it.  Often the 2 parties are the people inside the Washington DC Beltway vs the rest of us.

Like McCain and Obama this week on Syria.  And it happens more than people realize. 


About third parties.  It's just too hard to create the whole thing - from grass roots supporters in all parts of the country to elected officials at all levels of government.  It's like trying to create an operational Fortune 500 company overnight.

What eventually happens is one or more parties collapses - often seemingly overnight - and something new and different grows out of it.