Time to consider "Worst Administration Ever"?

[Marc.Knight]

Nixon was pretty much neck deep in the "worst" administration department.  As far as policy disconnectedness and lack of clear and consistent thinking?  Yes, the current administration is competing for first place among modern presidencies. 

[PB the Deplorable]

Pud, their first and foremost addiction to guns has to do with dick size.   I'm no Freudian psychologist, but I'm convinced of that.  They think that if they keep enough iron in the house, the fat wife won't leave them for a Black guy...

Good ol' Ben.  Always obsessed with race.  Always trying to pin his obsession on the people that don't agree with him.  There for awhile he managed to post a few comments without this obsession, but I guess that just couldn't last.

Oh my yes, these Leftists are the enlightened ones, they are the ones who are tolerant, open-minded, and non-violent.  Until you actually talk to one of them and disagree with something.

[Marc.Knight]

I know this is going to be beyond the comprehension of the American Left, but we Conservatives believe in the Rule of Law - flawed as it is.

That's why it's always the Left out taking over our parks and open spaces, blocking our streets and bridges, burning and looting places of business along their 'demonstration' routes, burning our flag and denouncing our country at their 'protests' - all in the name of 'free speech' and their twisted ideas about politics of course.  Jut to let us know how righteously angry they are.


If a dog like John Kerry is not prosecuted for his actions and is instead rewarded with a political career, then so be it. It's not like Obama doesn't have any number of similar toadies lined up to replace existing cabinet heads.

Your posts are generally intelligent and thoughtful.  I would add that the "Left" can take credit for changing the USA for the better with their peaceful protests.  The USA is what it is due to the civic duty to protest wrongs committed by government.  If this didn't occur the USA would look a lot more like all of Latin America with completely polarized economic systems - strictly the haves and have-nots.  The union movement in the USA helped build a middle class that defines the USA as a great country.  Protests helped define when war was foolhardy....  Of course, many conservative leaning people also fought for better conditions and decisions in the USA.  Time to first consider where we share a common love of freedom's principles rather than jump to imaginary conclusions and tribalism (us, collectively).

[PB the Deplorable]

That was a long time ago.  I would not equate what you are talking about with the Occupy Crowd, or any of their ilk over the past at least 40 years.


About Nixon - yes Watergate and the cover up was a terrible idea, among other failings.  That was a tiny bit before my time, but I would say the all around incompetence of Carter, breathtakingly vast scandals of the Clintons, the 2 ill-advised wars and dramatic increase in deficit spending by George W Bush, and the current intentional destructiveness (or unintentional, for the people that still believe that) and incompetence of Obama are each so much worse than Nixon.  But everyone has their own parameters and opinions.

None of these last 3 Presidencies produced much in the way of positive accomplishments to offset their awfulness, while Nixon at least had several - he created the EPA, opened the door to China, ended the Vietnam War, reduced tensions with the USSR, etc.  His foreign policy was excellent, domestic policy and personal characteristics, not so much.

[Marc.Knight]

That was a long time ago.  I would not equate what you are talking about with the Occupy Crowd, or any of their ilk over the past at least 40 years.


About Nixon - yes Watergate and the cover up was a terrible idea, among other failings.  That was a tiny bit before my time, but I would say the all around incompetence of Carter, breathtakingly vast scandals of the Clintons, the 2 ill-advised wars and dramatic increase in deficit spending by George W Bush, and the current intentional destructiveness (or unintentional, for the people that still believe that) and incompetence of Obama are each so much worse than Nixon.  But everyone has their own parameters and opinions.

None of these last 3 Presidencies produced much in the way of positive accomplishments to offset their awfulness, while Nixon at least had several - he created the EPA, opened the door to China, ended the Vietnam War, reduced tensions with the USSR, etc.  His foreign policy was excellent, domestic policy and personal characteristics, not so much.

From my limited point of view the "Occupy" protests tended to lack clear objectives.  They quickly became defined by the "need to protest" more than "why" they were protesting.  To me, it signified an erosion of the power and effectiveness of legitimate, righteous, principle-directed protests.  Perhaps that skill will return someday.

[Ben Shockley]

....it's funny how *Boy takes no offense of my describing any female that would get under him as a "fat wife," yet he obsesses again on how I made mention of something that could have to do with "race."

He can only wait around for me to say some word(s) that might have to do with "race" so he can call me "obsessed."
I wonder what he holds dear.    He clearly has no brood sow to keep him in the pen and away from the typing.

Do y'all think he keeps an autographed b&w pic of Joe McCarthy carefully folded into his bedside Bible, only taking it out for spanking purposes?

[Marc.Knight]

....it's funny how *Boy takes no offense of my describing any female that would get under him as a "fat wife," yet he obsesses again on how I made mention of something that could have to do with "race."

He can only wait around for me to say some word(s) that might have to do with "race" so he can call me "obsessed."
I wonder what he holds dear.    He clearly has no brood sow to keep him in the pen and away from the typing.

Do y'all think he keeps an autographed b&w pic of Joe McCarthy carefully folded into his bedside Bible, only taking it out for spanking purposes?

Why do you express interest in maintaining anonymous textual conflicts with a person you do not know, and whom you would normally treat politely if you met him on the street.  Why is it easier to insult someone from a distance rather than praise and compliment what little you do know about them? 

[PB the Deplorable]

....it's funny how *Boy takes no offense of my describing any female that would get under him as a "fat wife," yet he obsesses again on how I made mention of something that could have to do with "race."

He can only wait around for me to say some word(s) that might have to do with "race" so he can call me "obsessed."
I wonder what he holds dear.    He clearly has no brood sow to keep him in the pen and away from the typing.

Do y'all think he keeps an autographed b&w pic of Joe McCarthy carefully folded into his bedside Bible, only taking it out for spanking purposes?

Wow, really?  Lol, you illustrate the American Left better than I could ever hope to

[Ben Shockley]

Why do you express interest in maintaining anonymous textual conflicts with a person you do not know, and whom you would normally treat politely if you met him on the street.  Why is it easier to insult someone from a distance rather than praise and compliment what little you do know about them?

Thanks for making value judgements among people you obviously don't know.  People like P*B are on record in here as being forcefully opposed to having Barack Obama as President and thus forcefully opposed to those who voted for him.   To me, that means P*B, Sardondi, Ruteger, stevesh, and their rabid fanatic ilk would kill me on sight if they knew who I am -- to preserve their fanatic idea of what the USA was prior to 20 Jan 2009.   That is why I never identify myself in any way in here, and if you think "I would treat them politely if I met them on the street" you are fucking insane.  They would kill me -- ask them!!  I would/could only avoid them, and if I ever thought they were coming up behind me, I would drop their sorry pogue chickenhawk asses so fast it would make public heads spin. [You know -- because, contrary to righty fable, some of us Lefties are well-armed, TOO]

See, paranoia works both ways.  Except it's only warranted one way around here....

[Yorkshire pud]

I know this is going to be beyond the comprehension of the American Left, but we Conservatives believe in the Rule of Law - flawed as it is.

That's why it's always the Left out taking over our parks and open spaces, blocking our streets and bridges, burning and looting places of business along their 'demonstration' routes, burning our flag and denouncing our country at their 'protests' - all in the name of 'free speech' and their twisted ideas about politics of course.  Jut to let us know how righteously angry they are.

Has it never occurred to you that the very people you say hate America, or burn the flag might be doing it because they're ashamed the direction it's taken now or in the past? (last 40 years or so), and they're disgusted and don't want to feel that wrapping the Stars and Stripes around them makes them American. They know they're American.

An inexact analogy happens over here; We have regular protests on various things, with various political leanings. Across the socio/ economic spectrum..They can't all be commie bastards can they, yet they still have a demonstration. I don't advocate violence, criminal damage or any other methods of being royal pains in the arse. far from it, but I defend anyone's right to protest and demonstrate against anything they feel is their object of unhappiness. As Voltaire said  (paraphrase) I might not agree with what they're saying, but I defend their right to say it.


On your shores the vile and disgusting treatment that was meted out on the Dixiechicks was a demonstration of how your illiteracy rates (and basic comprehension of anything) supports the idea that stupid and uneducated people shouldn't be allowed to breed and make more stupid uneducated people. They were condemmed and had frankly criminal threats made on them for allegedly saying they were ashamed to be American or from Texas...but they didn't: they actually said that because Dubya was from TX, they didn't want to be associated with him as he didn't represent them. Still, because the left wing press had the story they could spin it and make sure their puppet commie President came out smelling of roses and the Dixiechicks seen as the (insert abusive moniker of choice for women) they were. Hell yeah.

[Marc.Knight]

Thanks for making value judgements among people you obviously don't know.  People like P*B are on record in here as being forcefully opposed to having Barack Obama as President and thus forcefully opposed to those who voted for him.   To me, that means P*B, Sardondi, Ruteger, stevesh, and their rabid fanatic ilk would kill me on sight if they knew who I am -- to preserve their fanatic idea of what the USA was prior to 20 Jan 2009.   That is why I never identify myself in any way in here, and if you think "I would treat them politely if I met them on the street" you are fucking insane.  They would kill me -- ask them!!  I would/could only avoid them, and if I ever thought they were coming up behind me, I would drop their sorry pogue chickenhawk asses so fast it would make public heads spin.

See, paranoia works both ways.  Except it's only deserved one way around here....

I try to comprehend other points of view in any debate.  It tends to help me strengthen my own conclusions, or to reconsider my position.  I'm not making value judgments, but simply asking questions.

[Ben Shockley]

...  I'm not making value judgments, but simply asking questions.

Then don't come in here and tell me what I would do in person with people who are publicly committed to killing me.   Try calming them down first.  Beyond that, don't come in here and tell me what I would do in any situation with anybody  -- I repeat: you don't know me from the proverbial Adam, so shut up.

[Marc.Knight]

Then don't come in here and tell me what I would do in person with people who are publicly committed to killing me.   Try calming them down first.  Beyond that, don't come in here and tell me what I would do in any situation with anybody  -- I repeat: you don't know me from the proverbial Adam, so shut up.

It is hard for one to shut up when one is not talking, but writing.  It must be difficult for you if you truly believe that some people contributing to this forum threaten your life.  I meant no offense, but there's always room for more pleasant discourse.

[Ben Shockley]

... there's always room for more pleasant discourse.

Another pro-wrestling referee, never seeing the original offense(s), but only energetically pushing the responder away to his corner so he can get kicked in the groin from behind the ref by the never-seen "heels."
Okay, great, Philosopher-- as a total newbie who has no idea about the dynamics around here, you have officially shut me down today.   Aren't you a wonderful forensic judge.....?   Your guys win today !!     

[Marc.Knight]

Another pro-wrestling referee, never seeing the original offense(s), but only energetically pushing the responder away to his corner so he can get kicked in the groin from behind the ref by the never-seen "heels."
Okay, great, Philosopher-- as a total newbie who has no idea about the dynamics around here, you have officially shut me down today.   Aren't you a wonderful forensic judge.....?   Your guys win today !!     

I've been here since June 21, 2009, 12:23:17 PM.  You don't need to leave.  No one suggested that.

[Ben Shockley]

I've been here since June 21, 2009, 12:23:17 PM.

addressed in a PM to Philosopher before I saw his last post

You don't need to leave.  No one suggested that.

Then what is your point, if not officiously "telling me how to post" ?

[Marc.Knight]

addressed in a PM to Philosopher before I saw his last post
Then what is your point, if not officiously "telling me how to post" ?

I never told you how to post.  I was simply asking questions.

[Ben Shockley]

....anyway, it's so fucking wonderful to have another right-wing ref come in here and stop anyone saying some truth.....
Good morning or evening, Philosopher!!!   It's great to have you jump in and get some of my pressure off the righties.   I wonder who called you back.   They are SO mistreated and under-represented.   I'm sure they appreciate your support.

thanks so much for "not telling me to..." and telling me I don't "need to" leave...... wow!!!!   I feel so privileged !!

[Ben Shockley]

dude, I don't know quite what your point was in jumping into my commentary today, but you just bought an A-list opponent.

[NowhereInTime]

Wow, really?  Lol, you illustrate the American Left better than I could ever hope to

That's because you know nothing of the American Left and rely only on your stale old Mark and Mao comparisons.
Alinsky, anyone?  No? 
Just ask Paper Boy to bore you to tears with his bloviation of Chomsky, Alinsky, and Lewinsky. 
Get cha Popcorn!!

[NowhereInTime]

It is hard for one to shut up when one is not talking, but writing.  It must be difficult for you if you truly believe that some people contributing to this forum threaten your life.  I meant no offense, but there's always room for more pleasant discourse.

Really?  Here?  You may be around since 2009 but Ben's right you're a newbie here.  It's all slander and rage here, and that's before Quick Karl opens his biggoted, feculent blow hole.
Don't for get Con rule #1: when getting ass kicked, quickly retort using "Marx", "Mao", or "Alinsky".  Your fellow cons will wallow with agreement.

[West of the Rockies]

Really?  Here?  You may be around since 2009 but Ben's right you're a newbie here.  It's all slander and rage here, and that's before Quick Karl opens his biggoted, feculent blow hole.
Don't for get Con rule #1: when getting ass kicked, quickly retort using "Marx", "Mao", or "Alinsky".  Your fellow cons will wallow with agreement.

Damn, but that reductionist rhetoric gets tiring, doesn't it?  I personally know of zero fellow progressives who admire Marx, Mao or Alinsky.  Saul's name is not whispered in reverant tones among the libs I know.  I know of none who regard Obama as "the Messiah" or "the chosen one".

Maybe it works both ways... I'm sure there are plenty of conservative people who do not think Cruz is the next big thing, who do not think a Rand Paul or Marco Rubio are "all that and a bag of chips..."  (Of course, those particular cats do get quite a bit of praise at present....)

[PB the Deplorable]

Thanks for making value judgements among people you obviously don't know.  People like P*B are on record in here as being forcefully opposed to having Barack Obama as President and thus forcefully opposed to those who voted for him.   To me, that means P*B, Sardondi, Ruteger, stevesh, and their rabid fanatic ilk would kill me on sight if they knew who I am -- to preserve their fanatic idea of what the USA was prior to 20 Jan 2009.   That is why I never identify myself in any way in here, and if you think "I would treat them politely if I met them on the street" you are fucking insane.  They would kill me -- ask them!!  I would/could only avoid them, and if I ever thought they were coming up behind me, I would drop their sorry pogue chickenhawk asses so fast it would make public heads spin. [You know -- because, contrary to righty fable, some of us Lefties are well-armed, TOO]

See, paranoia works both ways.  Except it's only warranted one way around here....

Today's Ben Shockley meltdown may very well reflect what is going on inside the White House as we watch the beginning of the end of Obama's failed coup.

[PB the Deplorable]

Has it never occurred to you that the very people you say hate America, or burn the flag might be doing it because they're ashamed the direction it's taken now or in the past? (last 40 years or so), and they're disgusted and don't want to feel that wrapping the Stars and Stripes around them makes them American. They know they're American...

No. 

Burning the American flag means something very specific.   The flag is a symbol, which is to say it represents America itself our freedoms, our customs, our history. 

To burn the flag is to express hatred towards America.  It is meant to provoke.  This is backed up by their reprehensible signs, chants, and comments.  The lies, smears, and vileness of their 'teach-ins'.  The burning of the flag is not done in isolation.  Even without burning the flag, it is clear these losers are full of bile and hate.  Burning the flag is not meant to say 'we are Americans but think the country is off track'.  T rest of us know it's off track, and also know it's not an occasion for flag burning. 

I'm not all that concerned when someone burns the flag.  I've seen it often enough around here.  It just tells me who I'm looking at, which makes it useful information.


If none of that flies with you, try this.  Next time the rabble are out, whip out a Palestinian flag, or maybe a Cuban flag, and burn it.  See how the mob responds to that.  You might find it educational. 

... On your shores the vile and disgusting treatment that was meted out on the Dixiechicks was a demonstration of how your illiteracy rates (and basic comprehension of anything) supports the idea that stupid and uneducated people shouldn't be allowed to breed and make more stupid uneducated people. They were condemmed and had frankly criminal threats made on them for allegedly saying they were ashamed to be American or from Texas...but they didn't: they actually said that because Dubya was from TX, they didn't want to be associated with him as he didn't represent them. Still, because the left wing press had the story they could spin it and make sure their puppet commie President came out smelling of roses and the Dixiechicks seen as the (insert abusive moniker of choice for women) they were. Hell yeah.

The Left-wingers have long acted as if free speech and protesting belong to them only.  They think there should never be any response or repercussion to anything they've said or done.  They should be the only ones allowed to determine who is to speak.  Look how they treat the Tea Party when they hold rallies. 

Mostly because they don't really believe in free speech, but are happy enough to use our freedoms against us.  If they ever seize power permanently, the first thing to go will be free speech.


So when the Dixie Chicks go to Europe and badmouth our President during a concert, everyone is supposed to be just fine with that.  No one is supposed to criticize them for it.

Well guess what.  Free speech is actually for everyone.  And it works both ways.  And it doesn't mean there is to be no reaction.  It astonishes me how many people are unaware of that and surprised to find it out.

Just as the D Chicks were free to say whatever they wanted, everyone else was free to weigh in and comment on them, to not buy their records, to not buy tickets to their shows, and to not play their music on the radio.  People were free to do all that. 


But from what I keep hearing whenever this comes up is the Dixie Chicks are free to say what ever they want.  Their critics, the people responding to them are not.  And the people supporting the Dixie Chicks and condemning their critics are back to being free to speak.  Interesting.

[Yorkshire pud]

So when the Dixie Chicks go to Europe and badmouth our President during a concert, everyone is supposed to be just fine with that.  No one is supposed to criticize them for it.

They get criticised for having an opinion? One that you didn't agree with, and the sentiments of which were taken out of context anyway?? And it is fair to say, they were seen to be astute in that opinion. And you really really should keep it quiet about bad mouthing presidents!! Those living in glass houses really should stop throwing stones.

Well guess what.  Free speech is actually for everyone.  And it works both ways.  And it doesn't mean there is to be no reaction.  It astonishes me how many people are unaware of that and surprised to find it out.

Yep...free speech is even allowed for the Dixiechicks.

Just as the D Chicks were free to say whatever they wanted, everyone else was free to weigh in and comment on them, to not buy their records, to not buy tickets to their shows, and to not play their music on the radio.  People were free to do all that. 

Yes, but then they formed that weigh in based on rhetoric and bile that was lapped up by the idiotic and unthinking, and the radio stations exercised censorship (very un American I'd say) and refused to allow 'free speech'...hang on, you don't mean that do you?  ..I'd say though that the follow up track they made was pay back...and some.

[Yorkshire pud]

But from what I keep hearing whenever this comes up is the Dixie Chicks are free to say what ever they want.  Their critics, the people responding to them are not.  And the people supporting the Dixie Chicks and condemning their critics are back to being free to speak.  Interesting.

Then you agree that those criticising them were correct in issuing death threats; because the Dixiechicks were exercising that very 'freedom' you continually espouse as representing the USA? Or is 'freedom' only applicable if it's what you and those morons who issued the death threats agree with?

[Juan]

Criticizing opinions?  Certainly not here.

[Marc.Knight]

Really?  Here?  You may be around since 2009 but Ben's right you're a newbie here.  It's all slander and rage here, and that's before Quick Karl opens his biggoted, feculent blow hole.
Don't for get Con rule #1: when getting ass kicked, quickly retort using "Marx", "Mao", or "Alinsky".  Your fellow cons will wallow with agreement.

Sorry, no newbie here (how can someone who's been here 3.5 years longer than you have be a newbie?). 

Just questioning the objectives of some of the unmedicated tards in the forum.  They tend to scare off some of the more civilized contributors.

[Marc.Knight]

Today's Ben Shockley meltdown may very well reflect what is going on inside the White House as we watch the beginning of the end of Obama's failed coup.

What makes you think it is ending?  I don't see anyone with any guts standing up to the disaster and trying to vote it down.  What I do see are people making sure that Hillary gets first place in the primary to carry on the Obama legacy.

[PB the Deplorable]

They get criticised for having an opinion?...

Oh Pud, you are being more obtuse than usual this morning.  Yes, part of having free speech is being able to criticize someone else's comments, opinions, statements.

The Dixie Chicks were (are?) a Country Music band.  That music is more popular in the South and Midwest and Red State areas of the US than in the Blue areas.  Their mistake was criticizing a politician that was popular with their fans.  If they didn't want to antagonize their fans, then they were stupid and should have known better. 


Here are 2 points you might not be aware of -

1 - I think the fact that they were in another country was a big part of it.  We have a tradition of leaving politics behind (at the waters edge) when we leave the country.  Or at least we used to.  Some of us still think that is appropriate.  Especially for those in the public's eye. We don't like it when Americans go elsewhere and criticize our country, government, President, etc. 

2 - When a rocker or rapper or anyone other than a country music band does the exact same thing, we don't even hear about it, it's no big deal. 

I've been to many many shows where the band said something anti-Bush.  Or anti-Reagan before that (somehow they all mostly seem to be Dem's).  I think it's childish.  It's usually not even as articulate as what the Chicks said.  At the end of one set, Sharon Jones simply said 'fuck Bush' out of the blue and walked off stage.  I saw Springsteen once and at one point I felt like I was sitting through an infomercial about the evils of Reagan.  Same thing at a U2 show (fuck you Bono, you're welcome to go home anytime).  No one cares, I don't much care - as long as it doesn't just keep droning on, but that isn't what I go to the shows to hear either.