Art Bell

[ge30542]

At age 57, I know I'll never see this country's finances straightened out.
The folks who should be screaming for fiscal responsibility are the people in their teens & twenties. Their financial hands are already tied, and their future's in hock due to the antics of the baby boomers.

[coaster]

Even if I knew nothing about Donald Trump Drumpf, the fact that Art Bell endorses him would make me hesitant. A man who handed over his entire show to a stranger from the internet indicates that he may not be thinking clearly on some matters.
Donald Drumpf fer 'Murica.

[Richard Groyper]

Even if I knew nothing about Donald Trump Drumpf, the fact that Art Bell endorses him would make me hesitant. A man who handed over his entire show to a stranger from the internet indicates that he may not be thinking clearly on some matters.
Donald Drumpf fer 'Murica.

Art quit on Drumft, too...

[ge30542]

Even if I knew nothing about Donald Trump Drumpf, the fact that Art Bell endorses him would make me hesitant. A man who handed over his entire show to a stranger from the internet indicates that he may not be thinking clearly on some matters.
Donald Drumpf fer 'Murica.

It's true, Trump has a way to go, but, he is getting better every day.

[The King of Kings]

The Donald Drumpf brain trust over in the political section? Sounds fun, but I have some broken glass I'm about to drag my testicles through. Thanks anyway.

You sound like you are part of the CCC.  The Conservative Cuck Clan

[GravitySucks]

Your chart is from skymachines.com, a dubious source.

Not sure what your point is here though. Are you saying $300 million was worth more then than now? And whose fault is that? And how does this hurt my argument?

Not that I'm arguing, lol.

It's not even a source. It's a godaddy domain name these days. No website.

[Value Of Pi]

The main problem with Republicans is religion.  Take that out and it starts making a bit more sense.   But then you're also left with a bunch of libertarian types which is kinda pretend anarchy for comfortably-off first world people.  That shit wouldn't last a year in a poor country with no social services.  I've tried it.

Nicely said. Another political philosophy which ignores human nature and the way people behave. Marxism is another one of those. Forget left or right. Unreality is what they have in common.

[Value Of Pi]

Pressured by the Democrats. Because, everyone should own a home, whether they can afford it, or not.

And the Republicans, led in speech after speech by GWB extolling the manifest destiny of every American to own their own home. And the financial services industry/Wall Street which formulated and launched the scheme, unperturbed by any regulators or other restraints.

[PB the Deplorable]

... the military is a socialist program. It is an enormous jobs program.

... Never, had I or have I ever seen the amount of incompetence and disrespect for work as I did when I was in the military.

... Socialism, or rather a democratic socialism is a cornerstone for the safekeeping of our citizens, just as much as serving in the military.

Any free trade capitalist would tell you a military is one of the (few) things best done collectively, i.e., by government.  It's also one of the few things our federal government is actually empowered to do under the Constitution.  Yeah, they hire people, that's not exactly the definition of a 'jobs program'. 

You note that even in the military, there is a high amount of incompetence and lack of work ethic (and no doubt an enormous amount of waste and corruption), yet despite your own experiences you are consistently one of the strongest voices here for more government programs, ever larger government, and more socialism.  It seems contradictory.

[Value Of Pi]

Art's facebook:

Trump
I have mixed feelings after the mess Yesterday. On the one hand like many American people I feel we badly need somebody to shake things the hell up like Trump. On the other hand I don't want a Racist. He knew exactly what he was doing just before Super Tuesday across the South. It's hard to believe a man raised in NYC would be Racist so it was opportunistic. I don't want Hillary and the rest of the field just does nothing for me. My head hurts.
Art

An excellent guess by Art. Sometimes he does nail it. A little late though, in terms of not smelling Trump coming.

[onan]

Any free trade capitalist would tell you a military is one of the (few) things best done collectively, i.e., by government.  It's also one of the few things our federal government is actually empowered to do under the Constitution.  Yeah, they hire people, that's not exactly the definition of a 'jobs program'. 

You note that even in the military, there is a high amount of incompetence and lack of work ethic (and no doubt an enormous amount of waste and corruption), yet despite your own experiences you are consistently one of the strongest voices here for more government programs, ever larger government, and more socialism.  It seems contradictory.

That is a fair point. Guilty as charged. But, I don't say get rid of the military. I don't suggest it is a scam.

Look, if you can show me a way to get the free market to handle homelessness and mental illness, by all means take the floor. The so called war on poverty has been underfunded from the start. Even though study after study shows people move out of and off of welfare. There are always others falling into poverty. One of the things that makes me shake my head is the clamor for people to find jobs, what jobs? The employment numbers are growing but very slowly. But outsourcing is still going strong.

[PB the Deplorable]

I disagree.
It was for the rich.  The idea was if you cut taxes for the rich they would then spend all their billions of dollars saved which would then trickle down to us lesser folks. It didn't work out that way. They tend to hold on to their riches. I also think Reagan knew that when he implemented that tax cut.

And what did 'the rich' do in the aftermath of the Reagan era economic restructuring?  Produced a modern Industrial Revolution in communications, computing, medical devices, pharmaceuticals, general technology..., created millions of very high paying jobs, created valuable companies and took existing companies to new levels that ordinary working people invested their retirement funds in. 

Were there problems and failures along the way?  Well, duh.

If a normally functioning person didn't do well during the 25 years from about 1982 to 2008, they weren't trying.

[Richard Groyper]

An excellent guess by Art. Sometimes he does nail it. A little late though, in terms of not smelling Trump coming.

Value Of Pi, Trump will make Mexico pay for the wall. They owe us, man!

[GravitySucks]

That is a fair point. Guilty as charged. But, I don't say get rid of the military. I don't suggest it is a scam.

Look, if you can show me a way to get the free market to handle homelessness and mental illness, by all means take the floor. The so called war on poverty has been underfunded from the start. Even though study after study shows people move out of and off of welfare. There are always others falling into poverty. One of the things that makes me shake my head is the clamor for people to find jobs, what jobs? The employment numbers are growing but very slowly. But outsourcing is still going strong.

Unless society is willing to go back to institutionalized care, and in a lot of cases, court ordered mandatory institutionalizations I don't have an answer for the homeless. You know, a lot of that is self-induced and more often than not involves mental illness. There are shelters. People refuse to use them, even on the coldest, wettest nights. Do you have any ideas?

[PB the Deplorable]

Then explain why our economy was the most robust when tax rates for the wealthy were at 90%?

I do think taxes can be prohibitive. But I also think, not regulating where businesses put their money hurts the economy.

Believe what you want, but trickle down economics has never worked. Wages have stagnated for decades even with lowered taxes.

When the economy was robust with a tax rate of 90%, a very tiny number of people had a small portion of their income taxed at that rate.   There wasn't a lot of income taxed at 90%

The people who would bring those rates back now would tax a much higher percentage of the population, and a much higher portion of their income, at those rates.

[onan]

When the economy was robust with a tax rate of 90%, a very tiny number of people had a small portion of their income taxed at that rate.   There wasn't a lot of income taxed at 90%

The people who would bring those rates back now would tax a much higher percentage of the population and a much higher portion of their income at those rates.

Exactly, the same would be so today.

[pyewacket]

First off, I'll confess that I haven't voted in a presidential election for well over a decade. There haven't been any worthwhile candidates offered and I can't even find one I would consider to be the lesser of two evils. I'm disgusted with both parties and feel that they no longer represent our interests. They represent big money interests only.

I am not a fan of Donald Trump, but I do understand why he is appealing to a large segment of our society. People have been pushed to the point where they no longer trust the established system and are demanding change. We've lost our common goals and values as a society. People from all levels below the wealthy class have lost too much ground and don't see much of a future for themselves or their children. This goes across most demographic groups. We've heard the same old speeches from the Republicans about bringing more diverse groups under the party's umbrella. Trump seems to be attracting more diversity because he is expressing what a severely underestimated segment of the population is feeling. He appears to be the unpleasant procedure needed to heal the sick patient. Many people view him as the only way to break the stranglehold of big money on the Republican party. The party leadership have themselves to blame for this. Look at the disasters of the 'it's my turn' candidates they've run in the last few campaigns. Dole, McCain, and Romney â€" really? Now it was time for a third Bush- like the previous two weren't enough? How many years did people hear- if only you'd deliver the house and senate majorities- we'd clean up Washington and take our country back. Nothing more than back door deals and more jobs outsourced and more manufacturers moving out of the country. All the big talk and promises proved to mean nothing.

The Democrats are no better- look at what they're offering. If they are successful with their push for amnesty and more immigration they will capture the majority vote and achieve their goal of a one party system. Then there is nothing to stop them from replacing our representative republic with a full blown socialist government.

I believe Trump's popularity is a push back to excessive political correctness and because people feel powerless. Of course, we could just keep things the way they are...

[TigerLily]

It's not even a source. It's a godaddy domain name these days. No website.

Ok. Steve Clemons is Washington editor at large for The Atlantic and editor of Atlantic Live. He writes frequently about politics and foreign affairs

[Value Of Pi]

And what did 'the rich' do in the aftermath of the Reagan era economic restructuring?  Produced a modern Industrial Revolution in communications, computing, medical devices, pharmaceuticals, general technology..., created millions of very high paying jobs, created valuable companies and took existing companies to new levels that ordinary working people invested their retirement funds in. 

Were there problems and failures along the way?  Well, duh.

If a normally functioning person didn't do well during the 25 years from about 1982 to 2008, they weren't trying.

You're giving the rich credit for all of this? I think it's much more realistic to give Wall Street most of the credit, along with the inevitability of technological change and the financial benefits it often provides.

And who is invested in the market, other than the rich? The middle class (which still exists, contrary to rumor), which invests directly through IRAs and 401ks, taxable accounts, and the pension funds of their employers, including various unions, btw.

[gabrielle]

Up Date....Art's latest post.  (sorry to interrupt)


I am going to give Donald Trump a pass on the mess about Duke. I do feel we need a strong leader like him.
I really don't think he is a Racist so for now I will stick with him. It is possible he got confused with all the pressure of the campaign. Like me he is Married to a immigrant who is a very smart Woman. His Children are bright and well raised, that says a lot about a person
Art

[Roswells, Art]

Up Date....Art's latest post.  (sorry to interrupt)


I am going to give Donald Trump a pass on the mess about Duke. I do feel we need a strong leader like him.
I really don't think he is a Racist so for now I will stick with him. It is possible he got confused with all the pressure of the campaign. Like me he is Married to a immigrant who is a very smart Woman. His Children are bright and well raised, that says a lot about a person
Art

I have an idea Art, how about if I don't care who you vote for.

Btw, vote for Bernie lol

[PB the Deplorable]

Do you think any of those people got higher wages during this? We were in a recession.  They took the money they saved in taxes and kept it.

Companies are only going to invest if they believe they are going to earn solid returns and be rewarded (by profits).  The Obama administration is very business unfriendly, and has created a very poor investment environment.  Why would these companies expand, hire people, and keep inventory on hand just because they have the cash to do so?  The missing piece is opportunity and a good business environment. 

Sure there is always going to be some investment, maybe even some growth, but this is an ongoing disaster and he can't leave office soon enough.  Quick, name the positive measures Obama has taken to strengthen the economy?

[norland2424]

I have an idea Art, how about if I don't care who you vote for.

This +1000

[Value Of Pi]

Value Of Pi, Trump will make Mexico pay for the wall. They owe us, man!

Okay, if Mexico is paying for it, they should do the hiring of the labor force. Only fair. What do you say we sneak over there to apply and get hired illegally by the Mexicans? We get to work and live in Texas or some other border state, with all the benefits of U.S. citizenship, while hiding our Mexican income from the taxman.

[Kolchak]

His Children are bright and well raised, that says a lot about a person
Art

[PB the Deplorable]

You're giving the rich credit for all of this? I think it's much more realistic to give Wall Street most of the credit, along with the inevitability of technological change and the financial benefits it often provides.

And who is invested in the market, other than the rich? The middle class (which still exists, contrary to rumor), which invests directly through IRAs and 401ks, taxable accounts, and the pension funds of their employers, including various unions, btw.

The people who did it may not have started out rich, but are doing well now.  There is no such thing as 'inevitability', it isn't just a coincidence that all this came about as Reagan restructured the economy.  There is a reason the advanced economies are ahead of the developing economies, who are in turn ahead of the most repressed of the third world economies.


Investors were able to provide capital when the Reagan tax cuts lowered the capital gains rate to a reasonable amount.  That's what kicked off the new Industrial Revolution.  No one is going to invest in startups when the two outcomes are to lose money if it doesn't turn out, or have it taxed away if it does well.  Regardless of those telling us 90% tax rates are the way to go.

Yes, regular non rich invested in the market, started companies, got educations and worked their way up to top management positions, etc.  It was someone else who said the non-rich didn't do well, I must not have been clear. 

[Roswells, Art]

This +1000

Yay, i have 1003 points now! Eat it +1's!

[trostol]

This +1000

there has to be a higher number of + than that

[Value Of Pi]

Up Date....Art's latest post.  (sorry to interrupt)


I am going to give Donald Trump a pass on the mess about Duke. I do feel we need a strong leader like him.
I really don't think he is a Racist so for now I will stick with him. It is possible he got confused with all the pressure of the campaign. Like me he is Married to a immigrant who is a very smart Woman. His Children are bright and well raised, that says a lot about a person
Art

Yup, yup, yup. I said last night that the key to the impact of this incident would be whether Trump's supporters decided to make excuses for him, or else, questioned their support. Art is probably a good indicator. Just my guess, obviously.

[GravitySucks]

Ok. Steve Clemons is Washington editor at large for The Atlantic and editor of Atlantic Live. He writes frequently about politics and foreign affairs

I would have to see how they put the data together. The government just announced the GDP growth was below 3% for the 10th consecutive year.  This is a chart that just shows spending for each FY. It seems to conflict with the one you showed.

You can see the growth in spending in relationship to gdp. This chart is from:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_brief.php?brief=recent

The second chart shows the pure growth in spending.

I will try and do some more digging. You know what they say about statistics.