George Noory Sucks! - The Definitive Compendium

[valdez]

Whether it is man made, is really not an operable argument. The cause isn't important except in how to ameliorate the potential future consequences.

     Which is entirely the point.  No one denies the climate is changing (the term "warming" seems come and go), the whole "politicization" thing is based upon whether is is man caused or not, whether carbon credits will be bought and sold, whether certain industries will be shut down, whether China and other countries will be asked (made to) restructure their energy consumption, or will only the west be the guys to carry the load.  The cost of our energy will be based on this.

I disagree that the term deniers as a reference to the holocaust. I think that suggestion is way off the mark.

     You may not have have thought of it, but the term "denier" somewhere in our deep subatomic concious connects the two.  Someone thought of that and applied the term.  Politics is not just some dumb person giving a lame speech, politics is subliminal, sneaky, vicious and wretched.

[Flaxen Hegemony]

Sometimes I think we would have a viable alternative fuel source if we could harness all the calories burned by arguments about global warming and/or climate change.  The issue has been drastically over-simplified by conflicting sets of political interests on both "sides", and simplification leads to labeling which leads to even more simplification.

The scientific reality may be somewhere in between, and for every "denying" scientist funded by big oil, or "supporting" scientist wanting to keep up grant support from govt agencies, there are hopefully some quietly saying "I don't know yet, let's take another look."  Unfortunately, they're probably the scientists working out of prefab labs at second-tier universities, because they have no money.

[musicman229]

I started listening when George came on the show. and the only times I really wanted to tune in was on the weekend to hear the Great Art Bell..  I knew from the start of that man that he is just not cut out for this kind of radio.  Sorry George .. 

[Morgus]

Tim Bell? That was his name?

no, his name was Tim "BALL"
don't confuse balls with bells 

[Morgus]

it was kinda funny that the only callers Hoagland was getting at the end of the show last night weren't talking about his topics (the comet/spaceship, space station, etc) but the callers were going on about climate change, etc.
they must have been waiting on hold for hours for the first 2 hour guest (Tim Ball) on climate change... 

[PB the Deplorable]

The sun causes the earth to heat up and cool down.  We are is still coming out of the last ice age.  At some point it will go back into one.  In between these huge shifts, the climate will vary.  The world was heating up in the '90s, but hasn't for the past 10 years. 


After the University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit had their emails hacked, I think a little pause and reflection might be in order.  These people are (were?) one of the leading institutions studying climate change.  They generated quite a lot of the data others were relying on.

The problem with the exposed emails is they apparently conspired to manipulate data, exaggerated data that agreed with their premises while hiding and disregarding data that didn't.  They discussed ways to exclude peer reviewers that didn't already agree with them.  When asked to release their data for peer review, they illegally destroyed it instead.  This is typical of a political operation, not a group dedicated to fact finding.  Luckily for them a like minded comittee looked into it and cleared them of fraud. 

The idea of man-made climate change is based on projections, not current data.  After the scandel, it even turned out the East Anglican software they chose to use to make these projections was flawed. 

Is this science?

[PB the Deplorable]

... If anybody needs anymore the guy constantly works with the Drudge Report, one of the most disreputable "news" outlets out there...

Interestingly, just in the past few days Drudge has linked to an article that claims Al Gore has made more money off the climate change scare than anyone else, and linked to another that quotes Mr Gore comparing climate change 'deniers' to the southern racists of the civil rights era.

Just these 2 items alone should give the believers pause.

[Camper]

CERN scientists say climate change is caused by the Sun http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/08/26/lawrence-solomon-science-now-settled/

And the obligatory link from Drudge http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100102296/sun-causes-climate-change-shock/

[Lovely Bones]

The sun causes the earth to heat up and cool down.  We are is still coming out of the last ice age.  At some point it will go back into one.  In between these huge shifts, the climate will vary.  The world was heating up in the '90s, but hasn't for the past 10 years. 


After the University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit had their emails hacked, I think a little pause and reflection might be in order.  These people are (were?) one of the leading institutions studying climate change.  They generated quite a lot of the data others were relying on.

The problem with the exposed emails is they apparently conspired to manipulate data, exaggerated data that agreed with their premises while hiding and disregarding data that didn't.  They discussed ways to exclude peer reviewers that didn't already agree with them.  When asked to release their data for peer review, they illegally destroyed it instead.  This is typical of a political operation, not a group dedicated to fact finding.  Luckily for them a like minded comittee looked into it and cleared them of fraud. 

The idea of man-made climate change is based on projections, not current data.  After the scandel, it even turned out the East Anglican software they chose to use to make these projections was flawed. 

Is this science?

An excellent summation, PB.  And no, it's not science. 

Valdez is correct also about politics being "subliminal, sneaky, vicious and wretched."  Politics is how the word "rhetoric" came to have a negative connotation.

[onan]

The sun causes the earth to heat up and cool down.  We are is still coming out of the last ice age.  At some point it will go back into one.  In between these huge shifts, the climate will vary.  The world was heating up in the '90s, but hasn't for the past 10 years. 


After the University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit had their emails hacked, I think a little pause and reflection might be in order.  These people are (were?) one of the leading institutions studying climate change.  They generated quite a lot of the data others were relying on.

The problem with the exposed emails is they apparently conspired to manipulate data, exaggerated data that agreed with their premises while hiding and disregarding data that didn't.  They discussed ways to exclude peer reviewers that didn't already agree with them.  When asked to release their data for peer review, they illegally destroyed it instead.  This is typical of a political operation, not a group dedicated to fact finding.  Luckily for them a like minded comittee looked into it and cleared them of fraud. 

The idea of man-made climate change is based on projections, not current data.  After the scandel, it even turned out the East Anglican software they chose to use to make these projections was flawed. 

Is this science?

Interesting you would bring up the hacked emails. They were hacked by the arsetards working for rupert murdock. From what I have gathered since those emails had been brought forth, they were spun significantly by the right wing shit for brains.

Look, I try to be a reasonable guy. And I do listen to both sides of the argument.

But here are some simple facts:

Average temperatures up 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit since 1880, most in the last 40 years, according the  Goddard Institute

Arctic ice is rapidly disappearing, and permafrost is much shallower than at any recorded time. Just to add in and under the permafrost is a shit ton of methane gas... the pun is there take it or leave it.

The rate of warming is escalating. 1980 through 2000 were the warmest years for thousands of years, and 11 of the past 12 years have been the warmest since records in the mid 1800's

Montana, where I grew up, had 150 glaciers in the early 1900's they now have less than 30. The Yellowstone river used to freeze to a depth of 6 feet when I was a teenager. It now doesn't freeze at all.

Extreme weather events including wildfires, heat waves, and strong tropical storms, are being attributed to climate change.

I do not mean to be rude but if you are trying to appear intelligent by seeing this from a different perspective you are nuts.

[onan]

CERN scientists say climate change is caused by the Sun http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/08/26/lawrence-solomon-science-now-settled/

And the obligatory link from Drudge http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100102296/sun-causes-climate-change-shock/

Actually, this is what CERN says:

Here's CERN, on what their study confirms and doesn't confirm:

"We have found that natural rates of atmospheri­c ionisation caused by cosmic rays can substantia­lly enhance nucleation under the conditions we studied... This result leaves open the possibilit­y that cosmic rays could also influence climate. However, it is premature to conclude that cosmic rays have a significan­t influence on climate until the additional nucleating vapours have been identified­, their ion enhancemen­t measured, and the ultimate effects on clouds have been confirmed.­"

That is the problem with following the drudge types or the financial types... They always get it wrong and in my opinion purposefully so.

[rolindos]

The sun causes the earth to heat up and cool down.  We are is still coming out of the last ice age.  At some point it will go back into one.  In between these huge shifts, the climate will vary.  The world was heating up in the '90s, but hasn't for the past 10 years. 

Is this science?

Just to add to that... as the sun sets, the change in temperature from the night side of the earth, to the sunny side, causes tremendous tectonic plate stress, shifting, causing earthquakes.  These open caves underground, which quickly fill with abiotic oil.  It's also during these times, we see Bigfoots, which have been driven out of their underground caves by the rising oil.  Now that's real science

[WOTR]

What the heck; a climate debate is more interesting than Noory any day.

Whether it is man made, is really not an operable argument. The cause isn't important except in how to ameliorate the potential future consequences.

I have to disagree.  The cause is extremely important.  IF it were 100% natural change, there would be nothing that we can do.  No cutting co2 output, no behavioral changes on the part of humanity matters.  On the other hand, if humanity was 100% responsible for it, there is plenty we could do to change the pace and severity of the change.

Why not just err on the side of caution and try to curb our consumption?  Economics.  There are some plans where low use consumers would get a rebate to offset the additional costs.  That makes sense.  However, an additional tax will hit low income families the hardest without such a rebate built in.  Solar energy is far more expensive than that coming from coal fired power plants.  Forcing low income families to pay for wind or solar power while raising the costs of transportation without a mechanism to offer relief would have some very serious consequences.

I also have always laughed at the idea that a simple tax (unless it made energy prohibitively expensive) would have much of an impact on overall demand.  Perhaps small consumers would cut their consumption, but overall demand would remain fairly steady.  I recall a couple of years ago (some) boosters of the idea kicked around a 10% increase figure as helping to curb demand.  After that natural gas and petroleum products increased almost 50% in price and producers will still struggling to keep up with demand. 

Can you tell that I am more interested in economics than I am in climate change?  Yes, there have been some excellent plans put out there that would help the economy while not punishing the small consumer... However, they will never fly as industry and large consumers will never be the ones to bear the cost.  Right now the knee jerk reaction of the "masses" is to reject any energy or carbon tax regardless of whether or not it would be of benefit to them financially.

Simply put, reducing pollution of every kind and reducing your consumption is a good idea (environmentally and economically).  To me, showing a low income family where they can save $$$ by reducing consumption will win over showing them the science of climate change and asking them to both understand and care.

As a final thought, when a company like Goldman buys into several carbon offset companies and carbon credit exchanges you have to wonder who will benefit from the low carbon economy- Goldman, or grandma?

[Flaxen Hegemony]

QED.

And, btw, George Noory sucks.

[onan]

What the heck; a climate debate is more interesting than Noory any day.I have to disagree.  The cause is extremely important.  IF it were 100% natural change, there would be nothing that we can do.  No cutting co2 output, no behavioral changes on the part of humanity matters.  On the other hand, if humanity was 100% responsible for it, there is plenty we could do to change the pace and severity of the change.

I do not really think we disagree. My point is that the search for the exact cause does not further implementation of ways to offset the problem. Perhaps I could have chosen my words a bit more cautiously. On the other hand, it is more important to be proactive than to continue to banter over who or what is at fault. Certainly if the sun were going to explode nothing could be done. With global warming, even if it is completely natural, we as a species could implement strategies to offset the warming effect.

We are not powerless or ineffectual.

And to add I think it is worth mentioning that much of the warming has coincided with our increases in industrialization.

[beachcomber]

This is the prophecy Hoagland was thinking of:

"Now they are talking about the sign for the Third Shaking of the Earth (first 2 were WWl and WWll). They said they're going to build what the elders called the house in the sky. In the 1950's they talked about this: they will build a house and throw it in the sky. When you see people living in the sky on a permanent basis, you will know the Great Spirit is about to grab the earth, this time not with one hand, but with both hands."

It's Native American - not sure about it being of Hopi origin, though.
http://www.crystalinks.com/cherokee.html

When RCH spoke about some comets returning, Nooryface blurted,
"Like a CLOCK ?

yes George - exactly like a clock.
Round, moving and time-related.
he meant "like clockwork", but GN doesn't want to be like anyone else ( due to his anti-learning phobia )

so he says things his way and thinks it's oh so original of him.
Inaccurate to everybody else, and unnecessarily strange, but far be it from him to appease the haters.

Hoagland is now getting into the evacuation of the international space station, the comet, and even the hopi prophecies about something crashing to earth - all connected?

[Rico999]

Re the East Anglia U "hacking controversy," that made a big stink in the corporate media and provided ammo for the "deniers" of human-induced global climate change (AGC). 

The information (that the science was being 'stretched' to fit the needs of the scientific community studying the problem)  has been totally debunked by more than one independent study.  After all, if it were true that the AGC theory was hoaxed by what -- 97.5% of the scientists studying it (current figures regarding the veracity of the science itself) -- then some very big names would indeed have some 'splainin' to do.  Myself, I favor the 97.5% who say the research and testing show that AGC is the real deal.   The literature is voluminous and expansive -- and conclusive.

And how many earth or climate change scientists have come forward and said the data's been fabricated?   None, that I know of -- unless you're someone like Tim Ball.

That kind of news plays big on the Fox News Channel, World Net Daily, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Bachmann, George Noory and others, but among those who're on top of this situation, there's little doubt of it's veracity.   Hey, have you heard Linda Moulton Howe or Richard C. Hoagland among the "deniers."  Nah -- and you won't.  LMH is a pretty serious science journalist and RCH has his rep to maintain -- if he has one, anyway -- in the hard-science community and they know what the score is.  Notice that Noory never talks to them about it, either.  That's telling.

Here's a link regarding the debunking of the hacks:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joe_conason/2010/07/08/climate

[Frys Girl]

Gotta agree with you there.  It's purely a scientific question.  The implications of climate change are great but the phenomenon shouldn't be a belief system.

it's not a belief system at all. it is a matter of thought and thinking: melting ice and basic numbers and facts. The problem is, assholes like Al Gore and others are trying to make a buck off of it. Rather than Al Gore fund alternative energy studies, he just gets paid to talk shit. Put your money where your mouth is Gore and crew. Instead, they want to take ours to fix a problem that is already far too ahead.
Even IF climate change is not related to anthropology or human activity, the government has no business to legislate our actions. They have a duty as governors to help find solutions, not punishments. What a fail.

[Rico999]

Glacier comments noted....I used to go up to Mt. Rainier every summer and get up close and personal with the glaciers there -- and in the past 30 years, they've just shrunk like you can't believe.

The thing is about last night's segment with Tim Ball that really pissed me off more than anything was Ball's inane comment regarding students coming out of college with Environmental Science degrees who "haven't even had physics and now they're bureaucrats making decisions about science issues."   

Well, I don't know if Ball is a liar or a money grubbing jerk, but this is bullshit.  I attended Western WA U in Bellingham, WA and they have an outstanding ES program at the Huxley College of Environmental Science -- and believe me, the students graduating with BS and MS degrees have had physics, calculus, alot of chem, biology, etc etc.  They've done fieldwork and they know their shit.  And this is just from a rather unknown medium sized university in NW WA state.   

Obviously Ball has an agenda and he knows damn well that the people coming out of most ES programs are well educated and highly qualified.   The statement was an outrage, in my opinion.

But I blame all this on George Noory.  Sure, there's guys out there like Ball -- who'll go into court or on radio or TV and spout their drivel for pay (he's worked for Exxon-sponsored "Friends of Science") -- but they haven't read the literature, don't care to either --  nor do they have any integrity.  Hell, Ball wants to get paid and this is what he does.  He has only 4 peer-reviewed articles published, but a ton of material in other media outlets. 

But this is all fine and good for Noory, because Ball reifies his own belief system and he's too rigid to question that it could be in error.   D'ya think he could have on someone like Bill McKibben, Lester Brown (formerly of WorldWatch Institute and a working farmer) or James Hansen of NASA??  Y'know, just to get an idea of what the science is really showing??  Hell no.  We get Tim Ball or Mitch Battros instead.  Terrific!

It's just like the abiotic oil line of shit.  Same thing.  Noory SUCKS.

[Frys Girl]

Interestingly, just in the past few days Drudge has linked to an article that claims Al Gore has made more money off the climate change scare than anyone else, and linked to another that quotes Mr Gore comparing climate change 'deniers' to the southern racists of the civil rights era.

Just these 2 items alone should give the believers pause.

Al Gore deserves credit, but not from scientists. He made a science issue a political one. THAT IS DANGEROUS and OUTRAGEOUS. he has hijacked a very important issue. Climate change is not something to be denied or laughed at. If you aren't qualified to be in the debate, butt out. Gore doesn't have credentials to be involved. I'd like to see a NATIONAL debate on television addressing this. Let's really give the public an education for once. However, no one cares enough to put his money on the line. Fox News and MSNBC just go back and forth like children. This country pisses me off!

[Lovely Bones]

Even IF climate change is not related to anthropology or human activity, the government has no business to legislate our actions. They have a duty as governors to help find solutions, not punishments. What a fail.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. 

I do not appreciate being forced to buy crappy light bulbs that don't provide sufficient light for those with vision issues to see effectively.  And no, My Government, I'm not saving money when half of them blow just as easily and as quickly as the regular ol' light bulbs did, the ones that cost me a pittance instead of an arm and a leg.  Oh, I know, I can go to Home Depot and buy those $50 dollar new fangled, really advanced light bulbs which are supposed to last longer and not leave poison on the carpeting if they break, but you're gonna have to have another one of them there stimulus plans to help me build a light bulb fund if that's what I need to do.  And we all know where that's gonna lead. . . .

I also didn't appreciate when my beloved old Maytag washer broke down that I couldn't just replace it.  Nopey nope, they don't make the kind of washer anymore that lets the person doing the laundry think about what he/she is washing.  Nothing like having to use a laundry cycle that's three times as long where the clothes come out ten times dirtier because you can only wash them in six teaspoons of water and "warm" really means "alternating ice cold water with luke warm water."  I resent having to wash things multiple times to get 'em clean and having to use multiple rinse cycles to get soap out of them.  I made MUCH better decisions than these stupid "Energy Saver/Water Saver" machines My Government has forced me to buy. 

And I sooooooo look forward to the day we all get put on the Smart Grid.  Nothing like My Government being able to know what appliances are running in what room in my house at what hour and making decisions about when I can run them and when I can't.

No, I haven't been influenced by Snoory.  But light bulbs and washing machines are things the government should stay out of.  Let us make our own decisions.  The government proved its own stupidity about such things with the Cash for Clunkers program in 2009--don't let me get started on THAT!

I now end my rant and return you to a saner discussion. 

[Frys Girl]

Anyone who is experiencing global warming is thereby qualified. Duh. Gore is not a scientist. When I want to hear about a crisis of this magnitude, I want experts and researchers. I don't want politicians, whom I don't trust to discuss even politics!


I am very concerned about global warming. It's a tragedy, but if oil stops flowing, the dollar will collapse! The dollar is backed by fossil fuel. I don't think this country has a chance of survival given its obsession with wars and enriching defense contractors unless it clings to fossil fuels. Oh unless it finds the magic potion to replace it and back the dollar with it. Hopefully, Area 51 is actually doing that stuff instead of building more junk planes that are the cause of Noory's open lines deranged callers' problems. Ugh.

[onan]

Anyone who is experiencing global warming is thereby qualified. Duh. Gore is not a scientist. When I want to hear about a crisis of this magnitude, I want experts and researchers. I don't want politicians, whom I don't trust to discuss even politics!


I am very concerned about global warming. It's a tragedy, but if oil stops flowing, the dollar will collapse! The dollar is backed by fossil fuel. I don't think this country has a chance of survival given its obsession with wars and enriching defense contractors unless it clings to fossil fuels. Oh unless it finds the magic potion to replace it and back the dollar with it. Hopefully, Area 51 is actually doing that stuff instead of building more junk planes that are the cause of Noory's open lines deranged callers' problems. Ugh.

I am not a big Gore fan. I have a personal story about meeting him about a decade ago. Again I am not a fan. That being said Gore is no slouch and he doesn't make stuff up the way the deniers do. I don't remember the guys name but Gore while in school made a rather propitious  connection with someone that is a climate scientist and that is where Gore got his inspiration.

I don't mind the light bulbs. I am old. My vision sucks. I don't feel encumbered because the lights seem a bit more yellow. My washing machine is about a year old and my clothes seem to be cleaned very well.

But I get the point. No one wants to sacrifice. It's OK if Belgium does but... well you get my point. I have several friends from northern Europe. They all say the same thing... "you Americans are spoiled." They're right, we are. We could do little things. In the winter turn our heat to 65. Wear a sweater. Draw a hot bath with the door closed. Enter and the room has been warmed by the water. We are 20 percent of the population and we use a much larger amount of resources both consumables and energy then our fellows.

So yeah the government is the problem. Big Auto has had the tech to make autos much more fuel efficient for 30 years or more but they need an incentive... like the betterment of all isn't an incentive... I guess it isn't. So again the frikken government is the bad guy.

Sorry to digress, we need to consider uncomfortable options. And we don't like that.

[Rico999]

Anyone who is experiencing global warming is thereby qualified. Duh. Gore is not a scientist. When I want to hear about a crisis of this magnitude, I want experts and researchers. I don't want politicians, whom I don't trust to discuss even politics!


I am very concerned about global warming. It's a tragedy, but if oil stops flowing, the dollar will collapse! The dollar is backed by fossil fuel. I don't think this country has a chance of survival given its obsession with wars and enriching defense contractors unless it clings to fossil fuels. Oh unless it finds the magic potion to replace it and back the dollar with it. Hopefully, Area 51 is actually doing that stuff instead of building more junk planes that are the cause of Noory's open lines deranged callers' problems. Ugh.

There's always gotta be a front man or woman to sell anything.  Actually, give Gore some credit for being on top of this thing from the beginning.   His credibility was marginalized a long time ago by the right wing talkers, namely Limbaugh.  It was repeated over and over and now people are used to it.  He's been treated very unfairly, imho, which has led a lot of people to distrust, fear or loathe him.  But that's the way the game's played here in the USA.

By the way, the actual text of his "controversial" statements are innocuous.  There's a video out of his conversation where he made the statements and it's unbelievable how things get twisted.  Another molehill turned into a mountain.  Didja ever think the game might be rigged??

I look at the danger we face this way:  We're going to have to change and it's going to have to be sooner rather than later.   You'd hope that we'd be reaching for something better, but that's pretty doubtful.  There's a whole lot of forces at work right now -- obvious and unknown -- that could spin this civilization we have out of control or create a new golden age.  But, in this so-called "democracy," where the voters are dumbed-down, where the choices are few and sold to us like toothpaste,  with electronically-controlled outcomes -- where corporations are now persons -- we can't be too optimistic, now can we?

[Frys Girl]

I am not a big Gore fan. I have a personal story about meeting him about a decade ago. Again I am not a fan. That being said Gore is no slouch and he doesn't make stuff up the way the deniers do. I don't remember the guys name but Gore while in school made a rather propitious  connection with someone that is a climate scientist and that is where Gore got his inspiration.

I don't mind the light bulbs. I am old. My vision sucks. I don't feel encumbered because the lights seem a bit more yellow. My washing machine is about a year old and my clothes seem to be cleaned very well.

But I get the point. No one wants to sacrifice. It's OK if Belgium does but... well you get my point. I have several friends from northern Europe. They all say the same thing... "you Americans are spoiled." They're right, we are. We could do little things. In the winter turn our heat to 65. Wear a sweater. Draw a hot bath with the door closed. Enter and the room has been warmed by the water. We are 20 percent of the population and we use a much larger amount of resources both consumables and energy then our fellows.

So yeah the government is the problem. Big Auto has had the tech to make autos much more fuel efficient for 30 years or more but they need an incentive... like the betterment of all isn't an incentive... I guess it isn't. So again the frikken government is the bad guy.

Sorry to digress, we need to consider uncomfortable options. And we don't like that.

Listen up onan. I did not say that people should not have do do things. I said that GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT to legislate our actions unless they involve the constitution or basic ethics (stealing, killing, etc...). What the hell makes you think that if the government legislates the thermostats and cars, people will like it? People resist punishments that involve government intrusions.


I am aware of the problem, and believe me, I do little things. I don't need a hypocrite fat cat (how much beef does he eat anyway) like Gore to preach to me about it.


Most people are willing to listen if they aren't threatened. That greater good principle doesn't work when it is forced on people. As humans, we have to be able to reason. That's why I can enjoy rush limbaugh, but still admit he's full of shit when he makes certain statements. I don't need the government to tell me what is good radio or bad radio (although with Noory......) anyway, as I said, reason with people and stop making this politics, and they will get it.


So many less people are drinking Diet Coke, which is disgusting cancer prayer as is smoking. I don't need the government to tell me not to smoke to prove that point.

[onan]

Listen up onan. I did not say that people should not have do do things. I said that GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT to legislate our actions unless they involve the constitution or basic ethics (stealing, killing, etc...). What the hell makes you think that if the government legislates the thermostats and cars, people will like it? People resist punishments that involve government intrusions.


I am aware of the problem, and believe me, I do little things. I don't need a hypocrite fat cat (how much beef does he eat anyway) like Gore to preach to me about it.


Most people are willing to listen if they aren't threatened. That greater good principle doesn't work when it is forced on people. As humans, we have to be able to reason. That's why I can enjoy rush limbaugh, but still admit he's full of shit when he makes certain statements. I don't need the government to tell me what is good radio or bad radio (although with Noory......) anyway, as I said, reason with people and stop making this politics, and they will get it.


So many less people are drinking Diet Coke, which is disgusting cancer prayer as is smoking. I don't need the government to tell me not to smoke to prove that point.

I haven't stopped reading/listening. I didn't say anything about the government telling us what to do with our thermostats. I said we don't like making sacrifices.

Perhaps I shouldn't have used only your post to anchor mine but so be it. I have no intent to piss you off. Quite the contrary. But you spout off with whatever the fuck you want. I do the same thing. If that offends you... again not my intention.

And this was mostly about global warming/environmental things to create opportunities for us to use less energy.

I was not saying you specifically need to do anything. Great if you do.

[PB the Deplorable]

The Left isn't so much about saving the planet as controlling the rest of us. 

Yes, there is less ice is some places.  And more ice in others.  Probably less over all lately.  Things change over time.  Several hundred years ago Greenland used to be green and warm, then it got colder.  England was warm most of the year.  Newfoundland was called Vineland due tot he fine crop growing weather.  Cycles within larges cycles.

I think it would be much easier and saner to convince people to have less children, to consume less, to stop the things we are doing to kill our oceans, to stop destroying habitat, develope alternative energy, all that.  But using force, using these issues as excuses to rachet up our taxes, adding more petty bureaucrats to craft nuisance laws, more control over us by the same people that can't effectively run the massive govt they allready created - gee, people resist that?

And Al Gore.  Building that huge mansion, the one that uses as much energy as a small city.  Flying around on private jets.  That's the hero?  Please.

[onan]

OK lets remove Al Gore from the equation. How does that make the denier side better?

[Rico999]

I gotta draw the line that it's the "left' that's about controlling us.   For one thing, there's no "left" or "right" in US politics.  In fact, the current two major political parties don't resemble political parties so much as they as they are servants for corporations.   They're two sides of the same coin.

Al Gore is no more "left" than Mitt Romney for crissakes.

Bottom line is that it isn't the "government" that wants to control us, they're out of the loop.  It's multinational corporations that actually do control much of what we think, what choices we make in the market and yeah, our very lives.

And one of those corporations is Premiere Radio Network which is ubiquitous here in the US with so many stations and so many people hearing the same, identical message over and over and over.   Our pal Ralphie is just one of their operatives, doing his part to shape ideas and opinions.

Which is what this little forum is about, right?

[Frys Girl]

If the right had found a way to profit from global warming and had been the first to exploit it, limbaugh would be chanting on and on about the prius and what a great vision of capitalism and american ingenuity. Instead, it was a left figurehead and voila. It's political and Congress is all over it, messing it up, messing up the chance for a solution.


Onan, sorry about my batty tone in the earlier post.