The Clinton Trump Debates

[GravitySucks]

The personnel problems were serious, although probably no worse than with the vodka-imbibing bunch overseas and underseas. That point was way too subtle for Trump, who is only sophisticated enough to look at the manufacturing date on the missiles.

There are also other reasons to modernize and invest in our nuclear forces, which we will, with or without Trump. But the implication that our nuclear deterrent is in danger of becoming ineffective is total nonsense. Trump hears Congress or the military drumming up support for appropriations and thinks "disaster." It's one of his favorite words.

When I worked targetting in the late 70's, early 80's we had 1000 Minuteman and 54 Titan ICBMs.

After I got out, they deployed the MX missiles which could carry up to 10 MIRVs. The MM III could only carry 3. As they deployed the MX they retired all of the Titans and more than half of the MM. Now we are down to 450 MM and are going down to 400 in 2018. The MM IIIs are 1970 vintage. They probably will remain functional until 2030.

If we are going to maintain the Triad, we need to be working on replacements now. Some strategists question the need for ICBMs given the fact that we have SLBMs and bombers. If I understand the new START Treaty correctly, we are limited to 300 SLBM's in 2018.

There is work going on to modernize the gravity bombs and the development of the long range standoff weapon. We used to have over 1000 SRAMs that could be carried on B52's, FB-111's and the B-1. These were all decommisioned in 1990. The nuclear Tomahawk warheads were also decommissioned.

With the propensity for contract overruns and cancellation of development projects half way through major weapons systems development, there is no guarantee that we can maintain nuclear parity past 2030. Some of the current upgrades are designed to modify the B-61 gravity bombs with precision guidance and lower yields, and this is what some people are referring to as a new class of tactical nukes.

I am not familiar with what NATO has, but I know we used to have whole classes of tactical nukes. I only dealt with strategic targetting so I am not sure how many of these were decommisioned with the various SALT/START/SORT treaties.

The good news is that we have probably 30% of the warheads we had in the Cold War. The bad news is that these are expensive to maintain and safeguard, and now to replace/modernize.

I don't know what my point was in typing all this out. I wish we had a lot less nuclear weapons. 8 years in the air force working on nukes drove me out of the air force. It was very stressful working on stuff every day that you hoped and prayed would never be used.

Maybe Skynet is the answer. 

[GravitySucks]

Yeah right, 21st is as trustworthy as his hero Ted Cruz. Just let everyone know the names of some of your fake books. What are you afraid of? A little honest criticism? If you are published, I have no doubt it's through some shitty POD publisher. You must not have any confidence in your alleged writing, otherwise you would want to promote them as much as possible. It's safe to assume your alleged books are as pedestrian and lame as your posts. If they even exist.

And it has been 1 hour and 40 minutes. You have failed the challenge. I had really hoped you could do it. Sad.

[albrecht]

When I worked targetting in the late 70's, early 80's we had 1000 Minuteman and 54 Titan ICBMs.

After I got out, they deployed the MX missiles which could carry up to 10 MIRVs. The MM III could only carry 3. As they deployed the MX they retired all of the Titans and more than half of the MM. Now we are down to 450 MM and are going down to 400 in 2018. The MM IIIs are 1970 vintage. They probably will remain functional until 2030.

If we are going to maintain the Triad, we need to be working on replacements now. Some strategists question the need for ICBMs given the fact that we have SLBMs and bombers. If I understand the new START Treaty correctly, we are limited to 300 SLBM's in 2018.

There is work going on to modernize the gravity bombs and the development of the long range standoff weapon. We used to have over 1000 SRAMs that could be carried on B52's, FB-111's and the B-1. These were all decommisioned in 1990. The nuclear Tomahawk warheads were also decommissioned.

With the propensity for contract overruns and cancellation of development projects half way through major weapons systems development, there is no guarantee that we can maintain nuclear parity past 2030. Some of the current upgrades are designed to modify the B-61 gravity bombs with precision guidance and lower yields, and this is what some people are referring to as a new class of tactical nukes.

I am not familiar with what NATO has, but I know we used to have whole classes of tactical nukes. I only dealt with strategic targetting so I am not sure how many of these were decommisioned with the various SALT/START/SORT treaties.

The good news is that we have probably 30% of the warheads we had in the Cold War. The bad news is that these are expensive to maintain and safeguard, and now to replace/modernize.

I don't know what my point was in typing all this out. I wish we had a lot less nuclear weapons. 8 years in the air force working on nukes drove me out of the air force. It was very stressful working on stuff every day that you hoped and prayed would never be used.

Maybe Skynet is the answer.

I know there are a lot of jobs (in and out of the military, government etc) but, to me, it seems very costly to maintain and upgrade these large nukes. And how much is enough (missile gap?) I think it would be far cheaper (though just as deadly and obviously I'm thinking in my Dr.Evil brain here) to develop chemical and biological weapons. One could imagine with the knowledge we have of the human, and plant/animal, genome etc that some scary stuff could be developed rather cheaply. One could even imagine genetic, or other, 'targeting' or, even better for plausible deniability, to target an enemy's water supply, livestock, or crops and, essentially make them beg for help. Under this scenario a country who caused the famine, that could be denied as some 'new flu strain,' or whatever, come out as being seen as the savior. So many possibilities like inoculate your population first via water supply or standard vaccinations and they unleash the 'bug?' Obviously I don't think these are good or moral positions but I'm guessing the bad-guys are working on stuff like this so hopefully we are (to counter or stop or MAD scenario.)

[Value Of Pi]

When I worked targetting in the late 70's, early 80's we had 1000 Minuteman and 54 Titan ICBMs.

After I got out, they deployed the MX missiles which could carry up to 10 MIRVs. The MM III could only carry 3. As they deployed the MX they retired all of the Titans and more than half of the MM. Now we are down to 450 MM and are going down to 400 in 2018. The MM IIIs are 1970 vintage. They probably will remain functional until 2030.

If we are going to maintain the Triad, we need to be working on replacements now. Some strategists question the need for ICBMs given the fact that we have SLBMs and bombers. If I understand the new START Treaty correctly, we are limited to 300 SLBM's in 2018.

There is work going on to modernize the gravity bombs and the development of the long range standoff weapon. We used to have over 1000 SRAMs that could be carried on B52's, FB-111's and the B-1. These were all decommisioned in 1990. The nuclear Tomahawk warheads were also decommissioned.

With the propensity for contract overruns and cancellation of development projects half way through major weapons systems development, there is no guarantee that we can maintain nuclear parity past 2030. Some of the current upgrades are designed to modify the B-61 gravity bombs with precision guidance and lower yields, and this is what some people are referring to as a new class of tactical nukes.

I am not familiar with what NATO has, but I know we used to have whole classes of tactical nukes. I only dealt with strategic targetting so I am not sure how many of these were decommisioned with the various SALT/START/SORT treaties.

The good news is that we have probably 30% of the warheads we had in the Cold War. The bad news is that these are expensive to maintain and safeguard, and now to replace/modernize.

I don't know what my point was in typing all this out. I wish we had a lot less nuclear weapons. 8 years in the air force working on nukes drove me out of the air force. It was very stressful working on stuff every day that you hoped and prayed would never be used.

Maybe Skynet is the answer.

Good post and very worthwhile if only to make the point that the whole issue of maintaining a nuclear balance of power is extremely complicated. It can't be reduced to terms like new or newer.

One crucial aspect you didn't address (much of which would have been happening after you left the service) is ABM development and deployment. Obviously, our current capability would be unable to defeat or even deter a Russian nuclear onslaught, but the potential is there to do one or both of these things. Targeting technology and laser weapons are advancing faster than we know, I would guess.

Eventually, the ability to shoot down missiles will matter much more than the number and megatonnage of MIRVs you can launch. This could be a good thing for the human race. But who knows.

[Astrid Galactic]

And it has been 1 hour and 40 minutes. You have failed the challenge. I had really hoped you could do it. Sad.

He's too busy stockpiling internet meme .jpgs.

[RealCool Daddio]

A little non-partisan humour for everyone:

https://youtu.be/tKTwKTrAR-4

[theONE]

   I knew you'd react that way.  You're so predictable.  You get so blinded by your ideology that if you come across someone who doesn't agree with it, you just dismiss them altogether.  Have you ever thought that we might not be so hostile to you if you acted a bit more cordial and were not so xenophobic to people who don't come from your same background?  If you meet us halfway, we'll meet you halfway.  That is your choice though.  I hope you at least think about it.  I'm done shitposting you for the night.  For what it is worth,  SciFiAuthor is a published author whose books are sold on Amazon.  You can believe me or not. That is up to you.  It doesn't matter to me.

MYSTERY SOLVED

This Sci-Fi Author Thinks Amazon Will Cause an Apocalypse.
[picture included].LOL

"CHARLES STROSS IS an award-winning science fiction author whose books include The Bloodline Feud,
about timeline-hopping narco-terrorists, Halting State, a near-future crime thriller set in Scotland, and The Rapture of the Nerds,
a humorous take on the technological singularity.
He’s also the author of The Laundry Files series, which blends spy thrillers, Lovecraftian horror, and workplace humor.
The latest Laundry novel, The Rhesus Chart, suggests that using a Kindle might make you susceptible to the malign sorcery of Jeff Bezos.
It’s an idea inspired by Stross’s real-life experiences with Amazon.
“Don’t get me started on Amazon,” Stross says in Episode 114 of Geek’s Guide to the Galaxy. “My books are published by Hachette.
My books have been blacklisted and blocked on Amazon on multiple occasions.”

He’s in good company.
Amazon’s habit of removing pre-order buttons from their store in order to pressure publishers into accepting its terms has affected lots of authors,
and alienated such big names as Stephen King, John Grisham, and Jennifer Egan.
And while the Lovecraftian armageddon codenamed Case Nightmare Green exists only in Stross’ novels,
he thinks a very real apocalypse could befall the world if Amazon prevails."

Donald Noory you can rest your case now my friend.
Go to MITD thread and spread your wings there, give it to Heather, she has headache right now,..so do it orally for time being

[attachment deleted by admin]

[SciFiAuthor]

MYSTERY SOLVED

This Sci-Fi Author Thinks Amazon Will Cause an Apocalypse.
[picture included].LOL

"CHARLES STROSS IS an award-winning science fiction author whose books include The Bloodline Feud,
about timeline-hopping narco-terrorists, Halting State, a near-future crime thriller set in Scotland, and The Rapture of the Nerds,
a humorous take on the technological singularity.
He’s also the author of The Laundry Files series, which blends spy thrillers, Lovecraftian horror, and workplace humor.
The latest Laundry novel, The Rhesus Chart, suggests that using a Kindle might make you susceptible to the malign sorcery of Jeff Bezos.
It’s an idea inspired by Stross’s real-life experiences with Amazon.
“Don’t get me started on Amazon,” Stross says in Episode 114 of Geek’s Guide to the Galaxy. “My books are published by Hachette.
My books have been blacklisted and blocked on Amazon on multiple occasions.”

He’s in good company.
Amazon’s habit of removing pre-order buttons from their store in order to pressure publishers into accepting its terms has affected lots of authors,
and alienated such big names as Stephen King, John Grisham, and Jennifer Egan.
And while the Lovecraftian armageddon codenamed Case Nightmare Green exists only in Stross’ novels,
he thinks a very real apocalypse could befall the world if Amazon prevails."

Donald Noory you can rest your case now my friend.
Go to MITD thread and spread your wings there, give it to Heather, she has headache right now,..so do it orally for time being

I'm actually pro-Amazon. They've shaken up an industry that desperately needed it.

[Uncle Duke]

The personnel problems were serious, although probably no worse than with the vodka-imbibing bunch overseas and underseas. That point was way too subtle for Trump, who is only sophisticated enough to look at the manufacturing date on the missiles.

There are also other reasons to modernize and invest in our nuclear forces, which we will, with or without Trump. But the implication that our nuclear deterrent is in danger of becoming ineffective is total nonsense. Trump hears Congress or the military drumming up support for appropriations and thinks "disaster." It's one of his favorite words.

I'm certainly under no illusion as to Trump's qualifications to be PotUS, but I seriously doubt he has any less understanding of nuclear weapons and their deployment than any other president save for Jimmy Carter at the time of their presidential campaigns. 

I'm not an expert on nukes, but I have personal experiences that illustrate why amateurs talk weapons/tactics, but military professionals talk logisitics.  The finest, most advanced weapon systems in the world are, or at least will eventually be, worthless without suitable spares, usuable up-to-date tech data, support equipment, and competent maintainers.  In the case of the US nuclear deterrent, the "infrastructure" as described by the NYT article has indeed aged greatly.  I'm not as confident as you seem to be we are moderinizing the deterrent, at least under the current administration, but either way we are probably not going to know.

[Dr. MD MD]

I'm certainly under no illusion as to Trump's qualifications to be PotUS, but I seriously doubt he has any less understanding of nuclear weapons and their deployment than any other president save for Jimmy Carter at the time of their presidential campaigns. 

I'm not an expert on nukes, but I have personal experiences that illustrate why amateurs talk weapons/tactics, but military professionals talk logisitics.  The finest, most advanced weapon systems in the world are, or at least will eventually be, worthless without suitable spares, usuable up-to-date tech data, support equipment, and competent maintainers.  In the case of the US nuclear deterrent, the "infrastructure" as described by the NYT article has indeed aged greatly.  I'm not as confident as you seem to be we are moderinizing the deterrent, at least under the current administration, but either way we are probably not going to know.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4YAYGi8rQag

[Donald Noory]

  For what it is worth,  SciFiAuthor is a published author whose books are sold on Amazon.  You can believe me or not. That is up to you.  It doesn't matter to me.

You really are dumber than a box of rocks. Anyone can have their book sold on Amazon. They have a self-publishing service. I can write a book and say it was written by my dog, and it will be put on sale at Amazon.

[Uncle Duke]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4YAYGi8rQag

https://youtu.be/vhe3vSe-mmw

[GravitySucks]

You really are dumber than a box of rocks. Anyone can have their book sold on Amazon. They have a self-publishing service. I can write a book and say it was written by my dog, and it will be put on sale at Amazon.

But you didn't. You couldn't even write 300 words. Pond scum.

[Astrid Galactic]

You really are dumber than a box of rocks. Anyone can have their book sold on Amazon. They have a self-publishing service. I can write a book and say it was written by my dog, and it will be put on sale at Amazon.

But not everyone gets nominated for Hugo Awards, multiple times.

We're still waiting for your 1st 'publication', Ricochet Rabbit.

[Donald Noory]

See Donald, this tells me that you've failed. If you had written anything of note, you'd avoid going on the internet and creating bad PR for yourself. You certainly wouldn't out yourself on a board showing bad form as you do. Given that such a thing doesn't seem to have crossed your mind in your analysis is very telling. I feel sorry for you Donald, whatever failures have created the true nastiness in your soul must have been doozies.

No actually you've failed. I never stated I've had something published. I've never tried to have something published. But if I did, I'm sure it would be better than your self-published dreck. You see, you've failed because YOU'RE the one who has presented themselves as the author, but yet you are too afraid to say what you've allegedly published. You sir, are a complete and utter coward and most likely a phony too. If you truly believed in the worth of your writing, you would be glad to let everyone know what you've written. You would be proud of it. But you're obviously not. I can only surmise it's because the quality of your alleged writing is equal to the quality of your posts i.e. pompous, overbearing, and completely devoid of substance. And it's painfully obvious from your pompous, know-it-all nature, that you chose the name Sci-Fi Author because you are truly desperate to impress gullible people. Now, as I've been asking for the last year, please let us know the titles of some of your books, if you're not ashamed of them, or if they even exist.

[Donald Noory]

But not everyone gets nominated for Hugo Awards, multiple times.

We're still waiting for your 1st 'publication', Ricochet Rabbit.

Means nothing. There's a bunch of right-wing fascist loon sci-fi writers that have a group that have been stuffing the ballot box with their own writers in order to get on the ballot.

http://www.salon.com/2016/08/23/the-alt-right-attacks-sci-fi-how-the-hugo-awards-got-hijacked-by-trumpian-style-culture-warriors/

[SciFiAuthor]

No actually you've failed. I never stated I've had something published. I've never tried to have something published. But if I did, I'm sure it would be better than your self-published dreck. You see, you've failed because YOU'RE the one who has presented themselves as the author, but yet you are too afraid to say what you've allegedly published. You sir, are a complete and utter coward and most likely a phony too. If you truly believed in the worth of your writing, you would be glad to let everyone know what you've written. You would be proud of it. But you're obviously not. I can only surmise it's because the quality of your alleged writing is equal to the quality of your posts i.e. pompous, overbearing, and completely devoid of substance. And it's painfully obvious from your pompous, know-it-all nature, that you chose the name Sci-Fi Author because you are truly desperate to impress gullible people. Now, as I've been asking for the last year, please let us know the titles of some of your books, if you're not ashamed of them, or if they even exist.

*applauds* You can write a whole paragraph! Little bit long and windy, but not bad overall. So, have you submitted a script to Amazon yet?

[Astrid Galactic]

Means nothing. There's a bunch of right-wing fascist loon sci-fi writers that have a group that have been stuffing the ballot box with their own writers in order to get on the ballot.

http://www.salon.com/2016/08/23/the-alt-right-attacks-sci-fi-how-the-hugo-awards-got-hijacked-by-trumpian-style-culture-warriors/

Hey, my little wabbit. It's well known that Salon is biased garbage. Still, even if it just happens to be correct, the guy did something that most of us haven't or couldn't do. I respect him for that alone. Heck, I'll probably go buy a book. But, as I said, all I've seen from your side is your angry and hateful 'opinion' and some article from a DNC controlled rag that I wouldn't use to line a bird cage with.

[Donald Noory]

*applauds* You can write a whole paragraph! Little bit long and windy, but not bad overall. So, have you submitted a script to Amazon yet?

Did I say I had? You really need to work on your reading comprehension. It doesn't bode well for your alleged writing. As I stated, I've not tried to have anything published (whether through traditional publisher or through self-publishing).

Now, quit changing the subject. Why are you so ashamed of your alleged writing? Why do you promote yourself as an alleged Sci-Fi Writer, but don't have the courage to name your alleged titles? C'mon pathetic coward. Have some conviction in your work.

[Astrid Galactic]

Now, quit changing the subject. Why are you so ashamed of your alleged writing? Why do you promote yourself as an alleged Sci-Fi Writer, but don't have the courage to name your alleged titles? C'mon pathetic coward. Have some conviction in your work.

Maybe he'd like a little privacy outside of his career. That's not unusual at all.

[RealCool Daddio]

Hey, my little wabbit. It's well known that Salon is biased garbage. Still, even if it just happens to be correct, the guy did something that most of us haven't or couldn't do. I respect him for that alone. Heck, I'll probably go buy a book. But, as I said, all I've seen from your side is your angry and hateful 'opinion' and some article from a DNC controlled rag that I wouldn't use to line a bird cage with.

Try Ann Leckie's first novel, Ancillary Justice.  It won the Hugo, Nebula and Arthur C. Clarke award, a record for a debut novel.  It is one of the causes of the alt-right sci-fi backlash, because every character (regardless of sex) is referred to using feminine pronouns.

[Donald Noory]

Maybe he'd like a little privacy outside of his career. That's not unusual at all.

Bullshit...he's desperate to impress people as a "sci-fi author" but is afraid to name anything he's done. A complete coward who's ashamed of his work. And he must be ashamed of his asinine posts on here too, and doesn't want his online persona on Bellgab linked to his alleged writings, because he knows his far-right, near-racist comments on here might turn off some of his prospective readers. So he's a coward on two fronts. He won't name his book titles, and he's doesn't have the conviction in his beliefs to the degree that he is comfortable having his online Bellgab comments connected to his alleged writing persona.

Still waiting for names of titles...

[Astrid Galactic]

Try Ann Leckie's first novel, Ancillary Justice.  It won the Hugo, Nebula and Arthur C. Clarke award, a record for a debut novel.  It is one of the causes of the alt-right sci-fi backlash, because every character (regardless of sex) is referred to using feminine pronouns.

Will do. Sounds interesting. Thanks for the recommendation.

[SciFiAuthor]

Means nothing. There's a bunch of right-wing fascist loon sci-fi writers that have a group that have been stuffing the ballot box with their own writers in order to get on the ballot.

http://www.salon.com/2016/08/23/the-alt-right-attacks-sci-fi-how-the-hugo-awards-got-hijacked-by-trumpian-style-culture-warriors/

I actually agree with this partially. They're destroying the Hugos doing that shit and their ring leader is a real piece of work. Basically a white supremacist indie publisher that wants his authors to dominate the ballot.  That said, there is a kernel of truth there in that the science fiction publishing industry is pretty politically correct, even worse than Hollywood, and as a result stories that really should be in the hands of traditional publishers don't get there because of the personal politics of the agents.

That forces stories like "Wool" and "The Martian" to originate as self-published books on Amazon that end up as NYT bestsellers. The publishers on the other hand are constantly bitching about never getting enough of that kind of material, i.e. shit that sells. This is bad for everyone, as the publishers and ultimately the agents don't get the sales of phenomenon books, the Hugo's never see the best sci fi currently out there, and even the self-published authors that are good suffer because they have to be found under a growing mountain of badly edited poor stories on Amazon.   

[Donald Noory]

But you didn't. You couldn't even write 300 words. Pond scum.

[SciFiAuthor]

Try Ann Leckie's first novel, Ancillary Justice.  It won the Hugo, Nebula and Arthur C. Clarke award, a record for a debut novel.  It is one of the causes of the alt-right sci-fi backlash, because every character (regardless of sex) is referred to using feminine pronouns.

See, this is a problem for me. I want stuff like this published. It's science fiction, you're supposed to push the limits. You're supposed to be politically preachy or not, your choice. No limits. And if it's quality writing, then it should win the awards and while I haven't yet read Ann Leckie, everyone tells me she's good. But the alt-right's actions are against quality rising to the top. But so are the agents. It's a real mess.

[theONE]

hmmm,

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Astrid Galactic]

I actually agree with this partially. They're destroying the Hugos doing that shit and their ring leader is a real piece of work. Basically a white supremacist indie publisher that wants his authors to dominate the ballot.  That said, there is a kernel of truth there in that the science fiction publishing industry is pretty politically correct, even worse than Hollywood, and as a result stories that really should be in the hands of traditional publishers don't get there because of the personal politics of the agents.

That forces stories like "Wool" and "The Martian" to originate as self-published books on Amazon that end up as NYT bestsellers. The publishers on the other hand are constantly bitching about never getting enough of that kind of material, i.e. shit that sells. This is bad for everyone, as the publishers and ultimately the agents don't get the sales of phenomenon books, the Hugo's never see the best sci fi currently out there, and even the self-published authors that are good suffer because they have to be found under a growing mountain of badly edited poor stories on Amazon.

Okay, I get it. I've seen the exact same things happen in the music industry, the art world and just about any other field. The establishment has them all tied up and make it extremely difficult for anyone to make their mark without playing nicey nice with them.

When it comes down to it, that's the real drawl for Trump. Those of us who know that the status quo must be broken for we regular people to get anywhere. All many of us are trying to do is survive and it's getting harder and harder every day.

[SciFiAuthor]

Did I say I had? You really need to work on your reading comprehension. It doesn't bode well for your alleged writing. As I stated, I've not tried to have anything published (whether through traditional publisher or through self-publishing).

Now, quit changing the subject. Why are you so ashamed of your alleged writing? Why do you promote yourself as an alleged Sci-Fi Writer, but don't have the courage to name your alleged titles? C'mon pathetic coward. Have some conviction in your work.

You're so cute when you blow a gasket. Adorable.

[Donald Noory]

You're so cute when you blow a gasket. Adorable.