Midnight In The Desert

[Scully]

... I disagree with the comments here about the paranormal field being finished.  It doesn't have to be the same old worn out alien and ghost stories told by the same guests.  What's sorely needed is enthusiastic, creative radio producers and hosts with new insights.  There is an abundance of both old and new unexplained phenomena to explore, and there will always be an audience eager to hear about it. 

Welcome to Dreamland...
      A program dedicated to an examination of areas in the human experience not easily nor neatly put in a box.  Things seen at the edge of vision, awakening in a part of the mind as yet not mapped, and yet seems every bit as real as the air we breathe, but don't see.  This is Dreamland..

I couldn't agree more.  I constantly hear new stories on all the sources we now have for hearing people's paranormal experiences.  I believe many of them are made of whole cloth, simply because there are so many of them and because I know from personal experience that many of these things do occur.

In any case, whether or not we Google the guest's history and find they're a bit eccentric, if he/she tells a good enough campfire story, I love to hear it in the middle of the night.

Believe it or not, Chris Carter and I are both on a strange path to find God. Or whatever you choose to call the creator of this crazy world.

I'm a news junkie by day, but enough is enough. Night time is different.

I love that Dreamland lead-in, Lt. Uhura.  Thanks for posting.

[Robert]

I think the problem may be is that either you figure out how to do it yourself or you figure out it is bullshit. So there is not much further you can go from there. At one time their were real reporters that went off to find stories to report on. Now they all just comb the internet for them. If their internet goes down they would be reporting on what is going down in the coffee break room.

That's not exactly the problem.  There are just as many people as before digging up info 1st-hand, but now it's so easy to get it 2nd-hand that they tend to be lost in the shuffle.  People like Drudge who can rewrite the news to be entertaining are part of the effect, and it doesn't help that institutions like Wikipedia actually deprecate 1st-hand reporting.

You probably encounter people all the time who have interesting 1st-hand stories to tell, but now they're competing for your att'n w similarly interesting stories from all over the world that are already propagated.  Right here we have at least 1 thread asking for 1st-hand stories, but I don't remember the last time I looked at it.  Meanwhile I've actually read a time or 2 from the thread about GabCast: a written discussion forum about an oral discussion forum about a written discussion forum about one or more oral discussion shows!

[henge0stone]

I think the problem with the paranormal is everyone is stuck in the past. I mean how many times can we hear about Roswell? UFOlogy has basically just givin up new cases and all the credible researches are retired.

Almost the exact opposite happened when it comes to ghosts and Crytozoology. There are so many crack pots looking to make money off ghost and Bigfoot 'research' with their docudramas and other nonsense. Finding Bigfoot was essentially the death nail for any serious researchers into Bigfoot out there.

All the Friedmans, Colemans and anyone serious in these fields are retired and paranormal is saturated with even more fraud now that paranormal TV shows have taken off. Lately they've died down a bit though so maybe there is hope.

[Chronaut]

It is eerie that active credible scientific investigations into ufos and parapsychology have come to a rather abrupt halt in the last 5-15 years.  I guess they’ve been so toxically stigmatized that nobody with a reputable career is willing to face the manufactured ridicule factor.  Nowadays we don’t even hear about a ufo sighting unless some giant craft flies directly over a major city, and the only way to hear about paranormal cases is when callers talk about them on the air.  The fact that Art Bell came back to offer a live broadcast to revive a potentially very popular public forum for such discussions makes me wonder if the stalker was on somebody’s payroll. 

You just don’t see guys like Kevin Randle and Stanton Friedman going out and investigating ufo cases anymore, and Dr. Barry Taff seems like one of a kind.  UCLA closed its parapsychology department decades ago, and I don’t know of any accredited U.S. university offering a degree in the subject now.  With no new active investigation being done, we’re stuck re-hashing the cases that were actually investigated in past decades.

I think we’re supposed to conclude that the subjects of ufos and the paranormal are dead because they’re not “real,” but to me it looks like they’ve been systematically forced out of view.  I think the corpocrasy wants us to be fearful, hopeless, and spiritually unconscious little worker drones so we devote our entire waking lives to making them greater profits, for lower wages.  And that's exactly what they've achieved, and continue to exacerbate every day.

[Value Of Pi]

It is eerie that active credible scientific investigations into ufos and parapsychology have come to a rather abrupt halt in the last 5-15 years.  I guess they’ve been so toxically stigmatized that nobody with a reputable career is willing to face the manufactured ridicule factor.  Nowadays we don’t even hear about a ufo sighting unless some giant craft flies directly over a major city, and the only way to hear about paranormal cases is when callers talk about them on the air.  The fact that Art Bell came back to offer a live broadcast to revive a potentially very popular public forum for such discussions makes me wonder if the stalker was on somebody’s payroll. 

You just don’t see guys like Kevin Randle and Stanton Friedman going out and investigating ufo cases anymore, and Dr. Barry Taff seems like one of a kind.  UCLA closed its parapsychology department decades ago, and I don’t know of any accredited U.S. university offering a degree in the subject now.  With no new active investigation being done, we’re stuck re-hashing the cases that were actually investigated in past decades.

I think we’re supposed to conclude that the subjects of ufos and the paranormal are dead because they’re not “real,” but to me it looks like they’ve been systematically forced out of view.  I think the corpocrasy wants us to be fearful, hopeless, and spiritually unconscious little worker drones so we devote our entire waking lives to making them greater profits, for lower wages.  And that's exactly what they've achieved, and continue to exacerbate every day.

I was with you through the first two paragraphs. Then you came to the explanation part.

Do you really think that if some innovative radio host came along and managed to create a hit show which dealt with UFOs and the paranormal, our corporate overlords wouldn't be all over it in an attempt to promote and profit from it? I mean, it's not like SPECTRE in the James Bond world, with villains sitting around plotting the death of the paranormal as some kind of capitalist plot to subdue the masses.

If you want an explanation, how about a combination of factors? The end of the Cold War ends the threat of alien invaders and UFOs. Or maybe the fact that much of the paranormal genre has existed purely for entertainment purposes while the E-world goes through fads and fashions for all kinds of reasons. And then there's the obvious shortage of talented, groundbreaking Art Bell types to keep the flame alive and burning through reinvention and innovation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's just unfortunate for those of us who like this stuff.

[analog kid]

Might have

I was with you through the first two paragraphs. Then you came to the explanation part.

Do you really think that if some innovative radio host came along and managed to create a hit show which dealt with UFOs and the paranormal, our corporate overlords wouldn't be all over it in an attempt to promote and profit from it? I mean, it's not like SPECTRE in the James Bond world, with villains sitting around plotting the death of the paranormal as some kind of capitalist plot to subdue the masses.

If you want an explanation, how about a combination of factors? The end of the Cold War ends the threat of alien invaders and UFOs. Or maybe the fact that much of the paranormal genre has existed purely for entertainment purposes while the E-world goes through fads and fashions for all kinds of reasons. And then there's the obvious shortage of talented, groundbreaking Art Bell types to keep the flame alive and burning through reinvention and innovation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's just unfortunate for those of us who like this stuff.

It also probably coincides with the advent of reality TV and The History Channel et al tanking and saturating the airwaves with those crappy shows on the subject. I think watching a few of those shows burned me out on it entirely. Maybe it's that all the major cases that I thought were interesting turned out to be shams. The Rendlesham Forest case being an example.

[trostol]

someone here mentioned Ancient Aliens...problem with that show is..they are doing what all these guests do..new episodes but its the same crap...some how they managed to , last i checked, drag it out over 8 seasons...at most it should have been 2..3 seasons maybe

[Chronaut]

I was with you through the first two paragraphs. Then you came to the explanation part.
[/snip]
It's not a conspiracy, it's just unfortunate for those of us who like this stuff.

Have you studied these subjects?  Are you aware of the long history of leaked government documents about ufos and the official policies of disinformation and denial to cover up the whole subject - which btw was quickly classified in the late 1940s?  Have you ever read any of Richard Dolan’s books or heard any of his lectures?   Are you aware of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) and “The Aviary,” and Special Agent Richard Doty’s roles in the MJ-12 document debacle and gas lighting Paul Bennewitz?  Do you know that the U.S. and the UK and other world leaders are using sophisticated counterintelligence and psyops agencies today, and that they’re active in everything from the mainstream media to online social media - even infiltrating chat rooms to influence casual discourse?

There’s so much solid credible evidence about this subject that it always surprises me when somebody still seems to be oblivious to it.  I guess if you’ve managed to somehow miss all of the leaked government documents about this stuff, which could fill several volumes of academic texts at this point, all I can do is give you some starting points and hope that you’ll educate yourself about it.  Good luck - the world we live in is way more twisted than you realize and your government is not your friend...it sucks to learn that your tax money is being used to manipulate your mind and hide the truth from you with lies and subterfuge:

“Twelve Government Documents That Take UFOs Seriously” by Richard Dolan
http://www.openminds.tv/twelve-government-documents-that-take-ufos-seriously/1234

“Open letter to the U.S. Air Force regarding allegations of UFO disinformation” by Alejandro Rojas
http://www.openminds.tv/open-letter-u-s-air-force-allegations-ufo-disinformation/27071

"Driving Mr. Bennewitz Insane" by Philip Coppens
http://philipcoppens.com/bennewitz.html

“The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations” by Humas Science Operations Cell (HSOC), Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group (JTRIG), Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ)
https://edwardsnowden.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/the-art-of-deception-training-for-a-new.pdf

“How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations” by Glenn Greenwald
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

“Psychological Operations” â€" compendium of government documents about modern psyops
http://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/psychological-operations/

“Richard Dolan at the Secret Space Program Conference” (YouTube video, lecture)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buNCOlB-HeM

Mirage Men, a 2013 documentary about US counterintelligence operations that I haven’t seen yet but plan to soon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_Men

[Coffeeman]

Have you studied these subjects?  Are you aware of the long history of leaked government documents about ufos and the official policies of disinformation and denial to cover up the whole subject - which btw was quickly classified in the late 1940s?  Have you ever read any of Richard Dolan’s books or heard any of his lectures?   Are you aware of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) and “The Aviary,” and Special Agent Richard Doty’s roles in the MJ-12 document debacle and gas lighting Paul Bennewitz?  Do you know that the U.S. and the UK and other world leaders are using sophisticated counterintelligence and psyops agencies today, and that they’re active in everything from the mainstream media to online social media - even infiltrating chat rooms to influence casual discourse?

[/snip bunch of clickbait that isn't even relevent...]

Not my discussion, but it's not the evidence as such a lot of people take issue with (lol, what is it with conspiracy theorists thinking everyone but them is oblivious to an underhanded government? You watch your paycheck drain away each pay period you see this first hand), but the conclusions reached.

[Chronaut]

Not my discussion, but it's not the evidence as such a lot of people take issue with (lol, what is it with conspiracy theorists thinking everyone but them is oblivious to an underhanded government? You watch your paycheck drain away each pay period you see this first hand), but the conclusions reached.

^ This is what happens when you don't actually read anything.  Here's one relevant excerpt from the Greenwald link you didn't bother to read:

By publishing these stories one by one, our NBC reporting highlighted some of the key, discrete revelations: the monitoring of YouTube and Blogger, the targeting of Anonymous with the very same DDoS attacks they accuse “hacktivists” of using, the use of “honey traps” (luring people into compromising situations using sex) and destructive viruses. But, here, I want to focus and elaborate on the overarching point revealed by all of these documents: namely, that these agencies are attempting to control, infiltrate, manipulate, and warp online discourse, and in doing so, are compromising the integrity of the internet itself.

Among the core self-identified purposes of JTRIG are two tactics: (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable. To see how extremist these programs are, just consider the tactics they boast of using to achieve those ends: “false flag operations” (posting material to the internet and falsely attributing it to someone else), fake victim blog posts (pretending to be a victim of the individual whose reputation they want to destroy), and posting “negative information” on various forums.

https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

It doesn't get much clearer than that, and Greenwald isn't a conspiracy theorist, he's a reputable mainstream journalist and author, and the work he did on this subject won the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald

[Value Of Pi]

Have you studied these subjects?  Are you aware of the long history of leaked government documents about ufos and the official policies of disinformation and denial to cover up the whole subject - which btw was quickly classified in the late 1940s?  Have you ever read any of Richard Dolan’s books or heard any of his lectures?   Are you aware of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) and “The Aviary,” and Special Agent Richard Doty’s roles in the MJ-12 document debacle and gas lighting Paul Bennewitz?  Do you know that the U.S. and the UK and other world leaders are using sophisticated counterintelligence and psyops agencies today, and that they’re active in everything from the mainstream media to online social media - even infiltrating chat rooms to influence casual discourse?

There’s so much solid credible evidence about this subject that it always surprises me when somebody still seems to be oblivious to it.  I guess if you’ve managed to somehow miss all of the leaked government documents about this stuff, which could fill several volumes of academic texts at this point, all I can do is give you some starting points and hope that you’ll educate yourself about it.  Good luck - the world we live in is way more twisted than you realize and your government is not your friend...it sucks to learn that your tax money is being used to manipulate your mind and hide the truth from you with lies and subterfuge:

“Twelve Government Documents That Take UFOs Seriously” by Richard Dolan
http://www.openminds.tv/twelve-government-documents-that-take-ufos-seriousaly/1234

“Open letter to the U.S. Air Force regarding allegations of UFO disinformation” by Alejandro Rojas
http://www.openminds.tv/open-letter-u-s-air-force-allegations-ufo-disinformation/27071

"Driving Mr. Bennewitz Insane" by Philip Coppens
http://philipcoppens.com/bennewitz.html

“The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations” by Humas Science Operations Cell (HSOC), Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group (JTRIG), Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ)
https://edwardsnowden.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/the-art-of-deception-training-for-a-new.pdf

“How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations” by Glenn Greenwald
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

“Psychological Operations” â€" compendium of government documents about modern psyops
http://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/psychological-operations/

“Richard Dolan at the Secret Space Program Conference” (YouTube video, lecture)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buNCOlB-HeM

Mirage Men, a 2013 documentary about US counterintelligence operations that I haven’t seen yet but plan to soon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_Men

I shall peruse these links when I get a chance. No doubt you are more familiar than I am with this kind of government conspiracy stuff and can quote me chapter and verse. I am just aware of it in more general terms and from the occasional item or interview I see, hear or read in the media.

The difference in how we look at this subject may be that you see all these bits of information as solid dots which connect with each other to form a coherent picture. I see a bunch of mainly fuzzy dots which may or may not actually connect with each other, may connect only tangentially or coincidentally, and generally don't connect due to organized central planning by the powers that be.

Sometimes a limited number of dots do connect cohesively and you get a genuine revelation, scandal, cover-up, plot, whatever. Watergate, Iran-Contra, coups instigated by spy agencies like CIA, politically orchestrated scandals and so forth.

But the biggest, nastiest collections of related "dots" are usually not scattered around like jigsaw pieces waiting to be assembled on late night radio or in the corners of the Internet. They're on the front pages of The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. And since we all have only so much time and energy for saving the planet/civilization, these are probably the best places to keep up with the most pressing threats to mankind. Too much immersion in too many questionable theories and allegations can treat your brain like a bad acid trip (from what I've heard of bad acid trips).

[Chronaut]

 

I shall peruse these links when I get a chance.

That’s nice to hear.  I don’t want anyone to plunge down the rabbit hole unless they really feel compelled to do so, but I think that everyone should at least be aware that the internet is pretty extensively infiltrated now, so we have to be mindful.

No doubt you are more familiar than I am with this kind of government conspiracy stuff and can quote me chapter and verse. I am just aware of it in more general terms and from the occasional item or interview I see, hear or read in the media.

The difference in how we look at this subject may be that you see all these bits of information as solid dots which connect with each other to form a coherent picture. I see a bunch of mainly fuzzy dots which may or may not actually connect with each other, may connect only tangentially or coincidentally, and generally don't connect due to organized central planning by the powers that be.

Sometimes a limited number of dots do connect cohesively and you get a genuine revelation, scandal, cover-up, plot, whatever. Watergate, Iran-Contra, coups instigated by spy agencies like CIA, politically orchestrated scandals and so forth.

But the biggest, nastiest collections of related "dots" are usually not scattered around like jigsaw pieces waiting to be assembled on late night radio or in the corners of the Internet. They're on the front pages of The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. And since we all have only so much time and energy for saving the planet/civilization, these are probably the best places to keep up with the most pressing threats to mankind. Too much immersion in too many questionable theories and allegations can treat your brain like a bad acid trip (from what I've heard of bad acid trips).

I’m by no means an expert or even an amateur enthusiast with this kind of stuff; about 98% of my discretionary time is devoted to theoretical and advanced propulsion physics.  But that often leads me to black budget research programs and wrangling with the suppression and disinformation programs enveloping them.  One thing about poking around the edges of the big black box is that you quickly learn to respect the extent and the efficacy of those secrecy programs:  people like you and I very very rarely get a peek inside, and more often than not the glimpses we think we’re getting are just manufactured bullshit to make us feel complacent that “now we know what’s really going on.”

Anyone who reads credible reporting about government surveillance and covert intelligence programs, though, will spot a lot of the dots you mentioned.  Teams of experts work full-time keeping those dots from connecting in the public eye.  But when you see what’s revealed enough times when those dots connect together in the media, it’s clear that ultimately we’re not a valued/represented voice in our government; we’re simply the “unwashed masses” to a private cabal of psychopaths, and government simply provides the illusion of legitimacy for corporations, plutocrats, and the defense industry to exploit our lives for the acquisition of wealth and the continued condensation of power into the hands of the few at the very top of the economic ladder.

I guess that most of us fall into two basic camps with regard to this stuff:  the people who read about an enormous and evil scandal decades after it’s happened, like MK Ultra, and blithely conclude that “oh it’s all out now.”  And the people who read about that stuff and realize that there are hundreds or perhaps thousands of programs like that and much, much worse, which haven’t made the headlines yet, and probably never will.

I think that most people don’t want to know what’s going on these days:  ignorance may not be bliss, but in most ways it’s preferable to the truth.  So I don’t try too hard to convince anybody about what I see, but if the splinter in their mind is driving them to dig for answers I’m willing to point them to a shovel.

Btw I liked your remark about saving the planet/civilization; scoring a point or two in that battle is the central focus of my life.  Hopefully if we’re all a little more aware that there are sophisticated covert forces pursuing less altruistic agendas online, we’ll have a better chance of making actual improvements in the human condition with our efforts.

[Jackstar]

I guess that most of us fall into two basic camps with regard to this stuff:  the people who read about an enormous and evil scandal decades after it’s happened, like MK Ultra, and blithely conclude that “oh it’s all out now.”  And the people who read about that stuff and realize that there are hundreds or perhaps thousands of programs like that and much, much worse, which haven’t made the headlines yet, and probably never will.

[Jackstar]

Too much immersion in too many questionable theories and allegations can treat your brain like a bad acid trip (from what I've heard of bad acid trips).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLisM2KPDIA

[Value Of Pi]

 
That’s nice to hear.  I don’t want anyone to plunge down the rabbit hole unless they really feel compelled to do so, but I think that everyone should at least be aware that the internet is pretty extensively infiltrated now, so we have to be mindful.
 
I’m by no means an expert or even an amateur enthusiast with this kind of stuff; about 98% of my discretionary time is devoted to theoretical and advanced propulsion physics.  But that often leads me to black budget research programs and wrangling with the suppression and disinformation programs enveloping them.  One thing about poking around the edges of the big black box is that you quickly learn to respect the extent and the efficacy of those secrecy programs:  people like you and I very very rarely get a peek inside, and more often than not the glimpses we think we’re getting are just manufactured bullshit to make us feel complacent that “now we know what’s really going on.”

Anyone who reads credible reporting about government surveillance and covert intelligence programs, though, will spot a lot of the dots you mentioned.  Teams of experts work full-time keeping those dots from connecting in the public eye.  But when you see what’s revealed enough times when those dots connect together in the media, it’s clear that ultimately we’re not a valued/represented voice in our government; we’re simply the “unwashed masses” to a private cabal of psychopaths, and government simply provides the illusion of legitimacy for corporations, plutocrats, and the defense industry to exploit our lives for the acquisition of wealth and the continued condensation of power into the hands of the few at the very top of the economic ladder.

I guess that most of us fall into two basic camps with regard to this stuff:  the people who read about an enormous and evil scandal decades after it’s happened, like MK Ultra, and blithely conclude that “oh it’s all out now.”  And the people who read about that stuff and realize that there are hundreds or perhaps thousands of programs like that and much, much worse, which haven’t made the headlines yet, and probably never will.

I think that most people don’t want to know what’s going on these days:  ignorance may not be bliss, but in most ways it’s preferable to the truth.  So I don’t try too hard to convince anybody about what I see, but if the splinter in their mind is driving them to dig for answers I’m willing to point them to a shovel.

Btw I liked your remark about saving the planet/civilization; scoring a point or two in that battle is the central focus of my life.  Hopefully if we’re all a little more aware that there are sophisticated covert forces pursuing less altruistic agendas online, we’ll have a better chance of making actual improvements in the human condition with our efforts.

Advanced propulsion physics? Hey, while I'm perusing, would you mind helping us out on the subject of gravity waves over on the Astrophysics and Cosmology thread? People's heads are hurting and minds are being blown trying to get a handle on developments. Agent:Orange, apparently the resident expert, hasn't been around for a couple of days.

[(Sandman) Logan-5]

   


ہم ان سے 9 اقتدار اس چال سے اپنے فوائد لیتے ہیں ۔
یہ مال و دولت، ہے یہاں پر جو لوگ خاطر سب کو رادسٹرابٹید جائے ۔

مسلسل، چاند پوری جلتی رہے یہاں تک کہ بڑھتی ہوئی چلنے والی باقاعدہ اس سائٹ کے لیے امن اور خوشحالی اور روشن ہے ۔

انانا، اسی، دالبہ، اسہتر ۔ ہم اپنے امن، محبت اور تحفظ دُور سے کال کریں ۔ اپنے مجاہد پہلو ہمارے محفوظ، ہمیں فضل لانے کے لیے اپنی مادرانہ پہلو پر عمل کرے ۔

جب چاند کمزور پڑنے، پروتگنسٹس کے لے سے, 9 کی طاقت کو پھر سے شروع ہوتا ہے ۔ جو اس داسترڈلی چال کے ساتھ ملوث تھے، اب ان فوائد ہیں، نیورموری ان سے لطف اندوز کرنے کے لئے چلے گئے ۔

اس دور کو ایک مکمل 27 چاند آخری گے اور دوبارہ کبھی بیللگاب تنخواہ شالل گونس کے ساتھ نمٹنے کے لئے ہو گا ۔

تحفظ ڈال دی ہے، خوشحالی کے اردگرد، یہ سائٹ جادو سے، کچھ روانڈ اپ اتنے چڑھائی پر مہر لگا دی ہے ۔

چنانچہ لکھا ہے ۔ یہ کیا ہے.

اولے، حمد اور انانن اور اس کے تمام پہلوؤں کے لیے شکریہ ۔

[Chronaut]

I got a gold star from Jackstar - damn, that's like getting a guitar from Jimmy Page =P

Advanced propulsion physics? Hey, while I'm perusing, would you mind helping us out on the subject of gravity waves over on the Astrophysics and Cosmology thread? People's heads are hurting and minds are being blown trying to get a handle on developments. Agent:Orange, apparently the resident expert, hasn't been around for a couple of days.

I wasn't sure what you wanted to know so I just threw some stuff out there.  Thanks for the reminder; I've been meaning to check out that thread for awhile now.  I really, really wish we has a science forum...there are lots of engineers, technicians, and scientific thinkers here and we could definitely have some great chats on a range of cool subjects.  If...

[Coffeeman]

^ This is what happens when you don't actually read anything.  Here's one relevant excerpt from the Greenwald link you didn't bother to read:
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

It doesn't get much clearer than that, and Greenwald isn't a conspiracy theorist, he's a reputable mainstream journalist and author, and the work he did on this subject won the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald

Yeah, I've quite literally read most of the stuff you've posted in one form or another. But as for evidence of a grand UFO coverup? Your stuff sucks. I mean, you listed one article by Glenn Greenwald about spooks "infiltrating" the Internet (lol, what is there to infiltrate? Find a free wifi, boot up Tor to set the mood, aloha, I'm a spook too). What does have to do with UFOs? It's one thing to follow an evidence trail and draw a conclusion, it's whole other to make a conclusion and juxtapose evidence to solidify your conclusion.

Yeah, Greenwald is respectable, not a fan but he's legit for his Snowden work; not my point nor did I call him a conspiracy theorist (how did you read that?). I was vaguely calling you a conspiracy theorist.

Not knocking you, but I honestly think all the honest, diligent research into UFOs was done decades ago. All that's left now is a barren desert of speculation and demands for disclosure, and that's been the status quo for literally decades now, too. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Lt.Uhura]

...Believe it or not, Chris Carter and I are both on a strange path to find God. Or whatever you choose to call the creator of this crazy world.

I'm a news junkie by day, but enough is enough. Night time is different.

I love that Dreamland lead-in, Lt. Uhura.  Thanks for posting.

You're welcome Scully!
 
I think we are all searchers in one way or another.  Simultaneously driven by curiosity and fear:  What is the most frightening reality on the other side of the closed door?  A monster?  God?...or nothing?

...If you want an explanation, how about a combination of factors? The end of the Cold War ends the threat of alien invaders and UFOs. Or maybe the fact that much of the paranormal genre has existed purely for entertainment purposes while the E-world goes through fads and fashions for all kinds of reasons. And then there's the obvious shortage of talented, groundbreaking Art Bell types to keep the flame alive and burning through reinvention and innovation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's just unfortunate for those of us who like this stuff.

[Auslandia]

I find Dolan to be credible and he's doing great work on new UFO cases.

[Chronaut]

That's funny, because I tend to assume that most people ignore the overwhelming evidence that the US intelligence community is using the internet to surveil our citizens and manipulate public opinion for their own agendas, because it's more comforting to believe that the world is just a big chaotic mess, than it is to think that billions of tax dollars are being spent every year by our own government to keep us ignorant, compliant, and confused.

I find Dolan to be credible and he's doing great work on new UFO cases.

I didn't know he was doing work on new ufo cases, but I really like his historical acumen on the subject.  Can you point me to any new cases he's been working on?  I'd like to check it out; he's one of the most rational people in the field, imo.

It's a shame that Richard Sauder is half crazy - he seems like he's done a lot of deep digging and found a lot of great material about secret underground bases and such, but then he goes off about some malevolent noncorporeal alien intelligence taking over the world that was revealed to him in a DMT trip, and acts like anyone who doesn't believe him is an idiot  :/

[Value Of Pi]

That's funny, because I tend to assume that most people ignore the overwhelming evidence that the US intelligence community is using the internet to surveil our citizens and manipulate public opinion for their own agendas, because it's more comforting to believe that the world is just a big chaotic mess, than it is to think that billions of tax dollars are being spent every year by our own government to keep us ignorant, compliant, and confused.

You say this like it's a bad thing. What organization, public or private, do you know of that isn't trying to manipulate or otherwise influence public opinion for their own agendas? It's pretty much how things work, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. But things often balance out.

The spy agencies have several agendas (not all of which they admit to or talk freely about), most of which I would support. Their methods can get out of hand, and therefore need oversight, but even that has its risks. Frank Church did a wonderful job of investigating the CIA and spanking its tushy post-Watergate, but he also managed to decimate its ability to collect human intelligence. This only increased the chances of war in hot spots like the Middle East.

Secrets and secret agendas are just a fact of life. American citizens are free to be as suspicious or ambivalent or ignorant as they want to be. The public's ace in the hole is a free press and the ability to hold politicians' feet to the fire when the excesses become too excessive. These things have a great deterrent effect.

[Chronaut]

Secrets and secret agendas are just a fact of life. American citizens are free to be as suspicious or ambivalent or ignorant as they want to be. The public's ace in the hole is a free press and the ability to hold politicians' feet to the fire when the excesses become too excessive. These things have a great deterrent effect.

I have no problem with intelligence agencies hunting for terrorists and dangerous criminals - hopefully that goes without saying.

But I have a huge problem with covert operatives infiltrating social media to control the conversation under false pretenses, conducting false flag and false rescue operations on innocent citizens, and disrupting healthy normal discussions using disinformation and sleazy psychological tactics to control our normal social opinion-making processes.  The leaked documents we have prove that they're doing that, and that they've gotten very, very sophisticated with it.

I highlighted the part about a "free press" because that's an obsolete concept, in my estimation.  If government operatives are subversively discrediting subject matter they want to keep out of the mainstream press (and we have compelling evidence that they've been doing that with regard to the subject of ufos for many decades, for example), and it works (which it obviously has), then it's not a "free press" anymore.  It becomes a mouthpiece for those in control.  Hell, just look at journalism these days:  most of what we learn about our government's activities comes directly from government press releases and spokespeople.  Nobody's doing any legitimate investigation of anything anymore.  Greenwald and a handful of others, but investigative journalism is on life support these days.  And look at the scandals we've seen with the government hacking into computers at the New York Times, and the draconian policies about whistleblowers - our press, and our citizens, are up against intimidation tactics and severe perhaps unprecedented prosecutorial mechanisms.  And if you don't like it, the Patriot Act gives them the freedom to arbitrarily declare you an enemy combatant and torture you in Guantanamo if they like.

This isn't our father's America.  The press has become a puppet for plutocrats and politicians, our rights are eroding faster than the Gulf Coast wetlands, and the research going on in some of the unacknowledged special access programs would curdle your blood.

Sure, most people prefer to carry on in the happy horseshit illusion that this is still a free country, and that's fine with me.  But please spare me the pretense that our vapid press has all the answers and that the system is fair and operating on our founding principles, because it hurts to laugh.

[Jackstar]

you listed one article by Glenn Greenwald about spooks "infiltrating" the Internet (lol, what is there to infiltrate? Find a free wifi, boot up Tor to set the mood, aloha, I'm a spook too).

Sure, you could do that, but then you wouldn't have a 401(k). You also wouldn't have a point or a leg to stand on, just like now.

lol@ "what is there to infiltrate," indeed.

[Chronaut]

lol@ "what is there to infiltrate," indeed.

If he'd bothered to read the link he mentioned, he would've known the answer to that question, which is the creepiest part of all this:  they're infiltrating everything from facebook to chat rooms to the comments section of articles and blogs posted online, posing as people they're not, employing psychological tactics to shape public opinion and destroy reputations and whatever else they want to do online.

So the internet is now like Soviet Russia, where anyone you run into could be a covert government operative with a secret agenda.  Orwell must be weeping in his grave.

[Sean92008]

...Believe it or not, Chris Carter and I are both on a strange path to find God. Or whatever you choose to call the creator of this crazy world.

I'm on the path to find a redhead (bottled or otherwise), but I don't taint my work to convey that message (no matter how veiled it is).  Now, if you search my browsing history, that is another thing all together.

Oh, there was that two-episode spec. script where Scully was the cause of angst for one of the characters...

Nevermind. 

[Roswells, Art]

I'm on the path to find a redhead (bottled or otherwise),
Nevermind.

Changing your avatar might help. lol

[Sean92008]

Changing your avatar might help. lol

Not looking here...  Come to think of it, not looking anywhere.   

Come to think of it...  I need a time machine to go back to 1974...  https://youtu.be/iUrzicaiRLU

[Value Of Pi]

I have no problem with intelligence agencies hunting for terrorists and dangerous criminals - hopefully that goes without saying.

But I have a huge problem with covert operatives infiltrating social media to control the conversation under false pretenses, conducting false flag and false rescue operations on innocent citizens, and disrupting healthy normal discussions using disinformation and sleazy psychological tactics to control our normal social opinion-making processes.  The leaked documents we have prove that they're doing that, and that they've gotten very, very sophisticated with it.

I highlighted the part about a "free press" because that's an obsolete concept, in my estimation.  If government operatives are subversively discrediting subject matter they want to keep out of the mainstream press (and we have compelling evidence that they've been doing that with regard to the subject of ufos for many decades, for example), and it works (which it obviously has), then it's not a "free press" anymore.  It becomes a mouthpiece for those in control.  Hell, just look at journalism these days:  most of what we learn about our government's activities comes directly from government press releases and spokespeople.  Nobody's doing any legitimate investigation of anything anymore.  Greenwald and a handful of others, but investigative journalism is on life support these days.  And look at the scandals we've seen with the government hacking into computers at the New York Times, and the draconian policies about whistleblowers - our press, and our citizens, are up against intimidation tactics and severe perhaps unprecedented prosecutorial mechanisms.  And if you don't like it, the Patriot Act gives them the freedom to arbitrarily declare you an enemy combatant and torture you in Guantanamo if they like.

This isn't our father's America.  The press has become a puppet for plutocrats and politicians, our rights are eroding faster than the Gulf Coast wetlands, and the research going on in some of the unacknowledged special access programs would curdle your blood.

Sure, most people prefer to carry on in the happy horseshit illusion that this is still a free country, and that's fine with me.  But please spare me the pretense that our vapid press has all the answers and that the system is fair and operating on our founding principles, because it hurts to laugh.

I think that the credit you're giving U.S. government agencies for their ability to successfully and covertly influence public opinion via the infiltration of social media, and the Internet in general, is way, way over the top. I haven't read your links yet, but I somehow doubt my opinion will change.

The power you think these people have is certainly possible in some societies. It definitely existed in the Soviet Union, for example. But even the Soviets were not able to be both subtle and effective at the same time. There was not even the pretense of free speech and they brutally suppressed any sort of dissent. If you look at how Russian trolls operate these days on American news websites, it's amateurish, obvious to many readers and just plain ineffective.

I can tell you from experience that changing attitudes and opinions to the extent you imagine is incredibly hard to do -- and the government is simply not very good at it. They have no magic and no secret psychological weapons that can bring about 1984 anytime soon. There are real dangers where civil liberties are concerned, but the dangers are not that hard to spot. They're out in the open.

As for this being a free country, or America having a free press, freedom has always been a relative thing. There are no absolutes. I do wish there were more Woodward and Bernsteins, but I still wouldn't trade today's journalists for the Yellow Journalism popular 100 years ago. Relatively speaking, I'd say what we have now is a healthier thing, for all its faults.

[Richard Groyper]

The United States government gathers and stores a massive amount of information. However, that's a far cry from covertly influencing, infiltrating, and false flagging social media accounts, and or the internet at large on a massive scale. Even with all of that..our technology, people, a lot of people, also man hours would be needed to run this giant operation. A very, very expensive price tag would be attached. People talk. They always do.