In bello autem perdiderit procrastinators

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

Ban Islam?

To make it precise: to interdict ISLAM as terroristic community by all civilised nations first to get a personal control of all muslims even on spec for beeing subversive. To revoke their citizenship an ban it from the country, if there is a justified spec. So it is perhaps more understandable.

I am upset by the permanent threat of a theocracy, and I want to see strict counteractions by the governments against.   

[paladin1991]

I have no love for any extremism (particularly the religious variety), but I find this sort of vague language of "banning Islam" to be tainted with an odor of very large gas ovens.

Reported for the Godwin.

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

Reported for the Godwin.

ok

[PB the Deplorable]

RZ wrote:  "To immediately ban ISLAM as a direct hazard for the national integrity by all civilised nations offers a first handle. This ban has to be propagated over supranational compounds unto UNO."

Ban Islam?  What would that mean in practical terms?  What would happen to those who continue to practice this banned religion?  Let's just, for the sake of argument, change Islam to Judaism... Anyone see a problem?

I have no love for any extremism (particularly the religious variety), but I find this sort of vague language of "banning Islam" to be tainted with an odor of very large gas ovens.

Several countries ban the display of Nazi flags, uniforms, insignia, etc, and others outlaw using such items to incite.  It has the effect of banning Nazism, at least publicly.

The equivalent would be to stop immigration of Muslims from countries that have Islamic hate movements, at least until we can sort out who is who, and monitor at least the radical mosques here.  Even allowing freedom loving Muslims to come here doesn't ensure their kids won't become radicalized and a danger.  There just is no pressing reason to import more of these people, and excellent reasons not to.

Instead of that, last week Obama sent an emissary with a personal note to the Oklahoma mosque that guy who beheaded his fellow employee attended.  There are several reports confirming this, I'm linking the report from Breitbart , obviously his friends in the Liberal Medial aren't going to run it.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/10/06/President-Obama-Sends-Personal-Thank-You-Message-To-Congregation-Of-Beheader-s-Oklahoma-City-Mosque

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

.... tainted with an odor of very large gas ovens.

You did not read my posts about my outlook to 3. empire: Shortened: Hitler was a furious mass murderer, and there was a lot of people helping him, but he is also a loser, he lost at least the 2. WW, I neither like him nor the history, we will never forget.

ISLAM is another story, a permanent global threat, we have to fight against, not to descend to a medieval global theocracy. They never would discuss possibilities for living together on earth with us infidels. in the best case we can live separated, but in an everlasting war. Therefore separation has to be maintainded and kept upright as strict as possible.

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

Several countries ban the display of Nazi flags, uniforms, insignia, etc, and others outlaw using such items to incite.  It has the effect of banning Nazism, at least publicly.

The equivalent would be to stop immigration of Muslims from countries that have Islamic hate movements, at least until we can sort out who is who, and monitor at least the radical mosques here.  Even allowing freedom loving Muslims to come here doesn't ensure their kids won't become radicalized and a danger.  There just is no pressing reason to import more of these people, and excellent reasons not to.

To avoid to mix the things together. One thing is, that upright muslims tolerate the culture and right of their host countries only with uttermost aversion and while beeing the minority. There are no moderate muslims, thats a myth. They wait for the first opportunity to establish their desired theocracy. In an Islamic country on the other hand  they do not tolerate infidels. There is a insumountable enmity from Islamics to the infidels, not in the reverse direction, because we modern thinking people know tolerance, they not yet learned and will need another couple of centuries to develope such communication features. What they learned is to simulate tolerance to keep their existence in a nonislamic host country, as long they are the minority. You have strictly to distinguish this simulated tolerance from friendship.

There is no ISLAM hating attitude with my considerations, there are only facts in my mind I have to put together in a reasonable way, presumably to avoid to lose my country as it becomes a theocracy.

Instead of that, last week Obama sent an emissary with a personal note to the Oklahoma mosque that guy who beheaded his fellow employee attended.  There are several reports confirming this, I'm linking the report from Breitbart , obviously his friends in the Liberal Medial aren't going to run it.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/10/06/President-Obama-Sends-Personal-Thank-You-Message-To-Congregation-Of-Beheader-s-Oklahoma-City-Mosque

This part of story is the harder one for me, as my respect for your president inhibits me to find the right words. If he found it the right way to do so, I cannot say, he were wrong. The difference whatsoever is the distance between the Islamic State to his country and to mine. As the first IS commandos infiltrate Europe the fight begins and the end is uncertain. Our muslims accept the Islamic State to full extent.

[VtaGeezer]

This part of story is the harder one for me, as my respect for your president inhibits me to find the right words. If he found it the right way to do so, I cannot say, he were wrong. The difference whatsoever is the distance between the Islamic State to his country and to mine. As the first IS commandos infiltrate Europe the fight begins and the end is uncertain. Our muslims accept the Islamic State to full extent.

Breitbart.com is a viciously far-right propaganda organization. Every word they write is structured to damage Pres. Obama and the entire liberal ideology. If they reported that the sky was blue, I would look outside and verify.

[PB the Deplorable]

The Obama Administration is viciously far-Left.  Every thing they say and do are structured to damage the country and the American people.  If he said the sky was blue, I would know it must be nighttime.

[VtaGeezer]

The Obama Administration is viciously far-Left.  Every thing they say and do are structured to damage the country and the American people.  If he said the sky was blue, I would know it must be nighttime.

Thanks for validating what I posted by association. 

[PB the Deplorable]

Thanks for validating what I posted by association.

You're welcome, Breitbart is just one of the more prominent organizations with the courage to point it out, and report the news Obama's accomplices cover up.

Oh, and they are being audited by the IRS.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

When you're on the North Pole, everything looks South.  When you're so far right you filter all your news sources through a strong sense of conservatism, everything looks left.  Conversely, you could say the same thing in reverse.  Either way it's harmful to the continued success of a society.

[albrecht]

Several countries ban the display of Nazi flags, uniforms, insignia, etc, and others outlaw using such items to incite.  It has the effect of banning Nazism, at least publicly.

The equivalent would be to stop immigration of Muslims from countries that have Islamic hate movements, at least until we can sort out who is who, and monitor at least the radical mosques here.  Even allowing freedom loving Muslims to come here doesn't ensure their kids won't become radicalized and a danger.  There just is no pressing reason to import more of these people, and excellent reasons not to.

Instead of that, last week Obama sent an emissary with a personal note to the Oklahoma mosque that guy who beheaded his fellow employee attended.  There are several reports confirming this, I'm linking the report from Breitbart , obviously his friends in the Liberal Medial aren't going to run it.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/10/06/President-Obama-Sends-Personal-Thank-You-Message-To-Congregation-Of-Beheader-s-Oklahoma-City-Mosque

Amazing, the grudge this character Obama has against the country almost has no bounds. Sending personnel emissaries to homegrown sources of violence- using our tax-dollars, of course. Shameful.

With regard to banning Islam, it could happen in some countries or at least bans on things associated with Islam (the garb, forcing them to allow their female children to be educated, outlawing female circumcision and wife-beating, maintain age-of-consent rules for marriage, not allowing forced marriages, outlawing private "sharia" courts, banning mosques based on zoning restrictions or failure to maintain historic/culture architecture, etc.) But it would be a hard fight here due to our Constitution (as the Courts have interpreted or made it) and due an almost fifth column of leftists who see Islam as just another arrow in the quiver to be used against Western Civilization and the country.

[PB the Deplorable]

When you're on the North Pole, everything looks South.  When you're so far right you filter all your news sources through a strong sense of conservatism, everything looks left.  Conversely, you could say the same thing in reverse.  Either way it's harmful to the continued success of a society.

It would be nice to have honest journalism from the main stream media.  Instead we have bloggers and AM radio hosts reporting on the pieces they manage to find that have been buried.  Which is better than what we had before Rush and the internet.

By the way, Conservatism is in the Center politically.  A plurality of Americans consider themselves Conservative.  We are the ones standing up for the Constitution as it was written and originally intended.  We are the descendants of The Enlightenment.  We are the ones for freedom of speech, freedom to own weapons, and all the rest.  That hardly describes extremism.


Yet we do have a prominent powerful group of extremists.  The leaders of the Democrat Party - and those who strongly support them - are extremists.  The Party has been taken over by the Far-Left. 

As just one example of how they've severed their roots, they no longer represent the unions, only the government worker unions.  They don't represent the coal miners anymore, or the truck drivers, or the steel workers - they work actively against those industries and those jobs.  They aren't out to create jobs for the little guy anymore, they've become anti-capitalist, anti-industry, anti-personal Liberty.

Look at the Bill of Rights.  Freedom of religion?  Only if you are a Muslim, everyone else is under attack.  Freedom of speech?  Only if you agree with the Left.  Freedom of assembly and protest?  Look how they savage the Tea Party for doing so, they think it's only for them.

Second Amendment - they don't believe in that, have all sorts of rules against ownership and possession, and try to pass more whenever they can without losing elections

Forth Amendment - citizens secure in their possessions, homes, ect?  Not with the IRS in general and Obama's IRS in particular.  Not with the Obama saturation spy apparatus.

The 9th and 10th Amendments have been completely ignored for decades - that we have other rights not listed, and that anything not listed as a Federal power belongs to the people at the state level.


That's the Democrat/ACLU version of the Bill of Rights.  The people that want our country back from these usurpers are not the extremists.

[PB the Deplorable]

... an almost fifth column of leftists who see Islam as just another arrow in the quiver to be used against Western Civilization and the country.

They have a common enemy - the rest of us.

They both have the same goal - A one world government run by them.  Apparently the Let has decided they will ally with Islam for now and struggle for supremacy later.

[PB the Deplorable]

From Australia today:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/546f86599bb3454e8486485f450518f5/australia-will-soon-ban-foreign-hate-preachers

"By all means let Australians who want to say stupid things say stupid things, but there's no point in importing troublemakers from overseas to stir people up and that's what I want to see in place very, very swiftly," [Prime Minister Tony] Abbott told Sydney Radio 2GB.


So I'm guessing no personal emissaries sent to mosques in towns experiencing Islamic terror, thanking them for all they do?

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

Amazing, the grudge this character Obama has against the country almost has no bounds. Sending personnel emissaries to homegrown sources of violence- using our tax-dollars, of course. Shameful.

I have to opt out the discussion about O in this context, there are so many contradictions in this discussion and I do not understand well enough the interrelationships to resolve them.

With regard to banning Islam, it could happen in some countries or at least bans on things associated with Islam (the garb, forcing them to allow their female children to be educated, outlawing female circumcision and wife-beating, maintain age-of-consent rules for marriage, not allowing forced marriages, outlawing private "sharia" courts, banning mosques based on zoning restrictions or failure to maintain historic/culture architecture, etc.) But it would be a hard fight here due to our Constitution (as the Courts have interpreted or made it) and due an almost fifth column of leftists who see Islam as just another arrow in the quiver to be used against Western Civilization and the country.

Its evident enough, that ISLAM is a religious covered Trojan Horse for a medieval terroristic system, who claims to dominate the entire world to exclude it from all rights as a religion: The Constitution of every country, the human rights and its connected bills of international rights, and to revoke whatever concession made to them . Its merely a terroristic organization with one target: to destroy our modern world to descend to dark age.

This is clear and understandable to everybody. What I not understand is, that this dragon is feeded by the entire world, as this were the only criterion of our tolerance and we were accused to be NAZIS by handling this monster as what it is, and chase it already to the hell. 

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

From Australia today:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/546f86599bb3454e8486485f450518f5/australia-will-soon-ban-foreign-hate-preachers

"By all means let Australians who want to say stupid things say stupid things, but there's no point in importing troublemakers from overseas to stir people up and that's what I want to see in place very, very swiftly," [Prime Minister Tony] Abbott told Sydney Radio 2GB.


So I'm guessing no personal emissaries sent to mosques in towns experiencing Islamic terror, thanking them for all they do?

That goes far below the truth, also "toledrant" Islamic preachers support a subversive organization: the ISLAM.

[pate]

Austria or Australia?  I am starting to get confused, although I didn't read the linked news article about Australia, I do recall that they recently arrested a number of Islamiscsts (sp) for purportedly preparing to behead random Australian citizens that they would grab off the streets.  Part of ISIS?  I don't recall if that was mentioned in the story I read or heard.

I will note that France, who I believe have their own troubles with the Moors(whaddya supposed to call them?)/Islamists/Muslim(that's it Muslim), and they ban the wearing of the hidjab (I think I spelled that wrong, and it may not be just that gender specific 'head-gear' banned).

My question, Rudolph is this:  Are there similar measures in place or being considered in either Austria or Germany? 

I have heard nothing on that but Europe isn't exactly on my radar and I pick up bits and pieces that cross my intartube path, so to hear from a non-media source I would find particularly enlightening.

Thanks!

[coaster]

wait long enough, and this thread will die....

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

wait long enough, and this thread will die....

I note, that you are not only not interested on this thread, but also not agree. Its ok

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

Austria or Australia?  I am starting to get confused, although I didn't read the linked news article about Australia, I do recall that they recently arrested a number of Islamiscsts (sp) for purportedly preparing to behead random Australian citizens that they would grab off the streets.  Part of ISIS?  I don't recall if that was mentioned in the story I read or heard.

I will note that France, who I believe have their own troubles with the Moors(whaddya supposed to call them?)/Islamists/Muslim(that's it Muslim), and they ban the wearing of the hidjab (I think I spelled that wrong, and it may not be just that gender specific 'head-gear' banned).

My question, Rudolph is this:  Are there similar measures in place or being considered in either Austria or Germany? 

I have heard nothing on that but Europe isn't exactly on my radar and I pick up bits and pieces that cross my intartube path, so to hear from a non-media source I would find particularly enlightening.

Thanks!

I see the situation from my country, Austria, where I live in Vienna. But the discussion concerns also all non islamic coutntries in the world. Europe is thretened in addition by awaiting IS terror commandos infiltrating and beginning their agitation soon. Then we will see. In that case Germany is also in a similar situation. Partial interdictions or special laws dont help in this case. Threats to other areas as Australia I think, are spoken by IS, but I consider them not very likely to be executed. France, by their more symbolic interdict of islamic female wear does nearly nothing against. We will see.

Obamas story I dont consider, because there are to much contradictions in the discussion.

[albrecht]

Austria or Australia?  I am starting to get confused, although I didn't read the linked news article about Australia, I do recall that they recently arrested a number of Islamiscsts (sp) for purportedly preparing to behead random Australian citizens that they would grab off the streets.  Part of ISIS?  I don't recall if that was mentioned in the story I read or heard.

I will note that France, who I believe have their own troubles with the Moors(whaddya supposed to call them?)/Islamists/Muslim(that's it Muslim), and they ban the wearing of the hidjab (I think I spelled that wrong, and it may not be just that gender specific 'head-gear' banned).

My question, Rudolph is this:  Are there similar measures in place or being considered in either Austria or Germany? 

I have heard nothing on that but Europe isn't exactly on my radar and I pick up bits and pieces that cross my intartube path, so to hear from a non-media source I would find particularly enlightening.

Thanks!

Some countries are trying. (As you mention French trying to ban some garb and the Swiss banned building minarets) but there is still a defeatist and acquiescence by most governments (though more and more not by citizens) to support Islam and failed immigration policies due to political correctness, make up for "past history", etc.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/30/world/europe/30swiss.html?_r=0
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/in-depth/immigration-quotas-approved-by-voters
In Germany, where they imported many Turks who never assimiliated you get situations like this just recently. The ethnic violence and tensions in the Middle-East have been imported into Europe.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dozens-injured-in-prokurdish-protests-in-germany-over-isis-encroachment-9782042.html

[pate]

Thanks for the info albrect, first I heard of the Swiss thing.

That only heightens my respect for the Swiss.  Probably just a intartube rumor, but I think they require all citizens to keep a military grade weapon (I guess it's men between 18-40 or 18-50) or somesuch.

I knew about the Turks in Germany. 

I suppose doing something, however symbolic has to be better than doing nothing...

[albrecht]

Thanks for the info albrect, first I heard of the Swiss thing.

That only heightens my respect for the Swiss.  Probably just a intartube rumor, but I think they require all citizens to keep a military grade weapon (I guess it's men between 18-40 or 18-50) or somesuch.

I knew about the Turks in Germany. 

I suppose doing something, however symbolic has to be better than doing nothing...

Although there is some political differences between the Francophon Swiss, the German speaking, and the Italian they have a long history of strong local control and real democracy in their cantons. And a wise history of not getting involved in groups that undermine sovereignty (UN, EU, etc.) So they hold referendums on the serious issues- not just let politicians do what they wish from a "top down" method. They also recognize the problems of unfettered immigration and have rules about wealth, speaking one of the languages, education, etc. This was strengthened even more into a quota system by referendum recently. (Like the USA used to have back when we had a sensible immigration policy.) All able-bodied, "fit" men get conscripted for a period of military service and later become a part of the militia Swiss militia system stipulates that the soldiers keep their own personal equipment, including all personally assigned weapons, at home. Interestingly they actually do have a Navy! (I'm guessing more involved with policing cigarette and other smuggling on the lakes.)

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

Dear Albrecht, dear all

thank you for providing material originally asked by pate, but there is silence around IS itself, except their paticipation on Kurdish protests. Iself have no addittional information about.

Swiss is a special case, as they inhibited many of the problems from beginning and their militionary system of single soldiers enable them to defend very well against guerilla methods in their area, so they can be relaxed with respect to IS - commandos getting active wherever in their country even not being infiltrated by. I do not know exactly their situation with their ISLAM, but their minarettes ban showed, that they have them quite under control.

I think that Swiss could be a good example for many other countries and also for mine, and have no need to set strong measures under time stress as I described. There is gone wrong very much in Austria, especially when I compare with Swiss, so we are in a quite worse situation than they are.

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

.......................... but there is still a defeatist and acquiescence by most governments (though more and more not by citizens) to support Islam and failed immigration policies due to political correctness, make up for "past history", etc.

In Germany, where they imported many Turks who never assimiliated you get situations like this just recently. The ethnic violence and tensions in the Middle-East have been imported into Europe.

That desribes exactly the situation in Austria and Germany: "due to political correctness, make up for "past history"", its ultimate time to free, but not forget, from past history and handle the problems as they are. To find the right distance to foreign notintegrating groups yet immigrated, set the right immigration measures, and to see and react to the hazard for our sovereignty by subversive organizations as the ISLAM conscious ever since their global silence about Islamic state. Islamic state is fully justified by their theological basics, as a theologist stated in a recent interview (sorry that material is only available in German).

http://diepresse.com/home/panorama/oesterreich/3875946/Aslan_Muslime-benotigen-Friedenskonzepte
Zugrundeliegenes Interview mit Religionspädagogen Aslan


So my outlook to the real nature of Islamic guest organizations as waiting for support to convert their hosts to a theocracy is perhaps more understandable. In Europe they wait for the infiltrating IS-commandos only, so the hazard Europe to become a caliphate is recent and real. Laws dont help against, only a immediate banning could alleviate the hazard.

A global reaction to the Islamic threat could help, at least to revoke the official international state of ISLAM as religion. 

[albrecht]

That desribes exactly the situation in Austria and Germany: "due to political correctness, make up for "past history"", its ultimate time to free, but not forget, from past history and handle the problems as they are. To find the right distance to foreign notintegrating groups yet immigrated, set the right immigration measures, and to see and react to the hazard for our sovereignty by subversive organizations as the ISLAM conscious ever since their global silence about Islamic state. Islamic state is fully justified by their theological basics, as a theologist stated in a recent interview (sorry that material is only available in German).

http://diepresse.com/home/panorama/oesterreich/3875946/Aslan_Muslime-benotigen-Friedenskonzepte
Zugrundeliegenes Interview mit Religionspädagogen Aslan


So my outlook to the real nature of Islamic guest organizations as waiting for support to convert their hosts to a theocracy is perhaps more understandable. In Europe they wait for the infiltrating IS-commandos only, so the hazard Europe to become a caliphate is recent and real. Laws dont help against, only a immediate banning could alleviate the hazard.

A global reaction to the Islamic threat could help, at least to revoke the official international state of ISLAM as religion.

Good article, especially about how he says that:
"Do you consider it legitimate that the terror group IS relies on its activities to the Koran?

Theologically, it is legitimate to 100 percent. Everything that makes the IS and calls is theologically sound and occurs in all basic works of Islam. A Caliph does have a war contract, no peace order. He needs to Islam also spread through violence and should at least once a year to wage war. "

And the need to eliminate radical Islamic schools (I would say eliminate Islamic schools in general.) Also, find a way to stop the immigration of Islam into our countries and find a non-violent way to remove those Muslims already here if they refuse to assimilate and drop their garb, radicalism, misogyny, language, ethnic and sectarian feuds, etc.

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

Good article, especially about how he says that:
"Do you consider it legitimate that the terror group IS relies on its activities to the Koran?

Theologically, it is legitimate to 100 percent. Everything that makes the IS and calls is theologically sound and occurs in all basic works of Islam. A Caliph does have a war contract, no peace order. He needs to Islam also spread through violence and should at least once a year to wage war. "

And the need to eliminate radical Islamic schools (I would say eliminate Islamic schools in general.) Also, find a way to stop the immigration of Islam into our countries and find a non-violent way to remove those Muslims already here if they refuse to assimilate and drop their garb, radicalism, misogyny, language, ethnic and sectarian feuds, etc.

Thank you for your effort to read the German material. The problem is, that ISLAM and their muslims never will change to nonradical. Therre are no moderate muslims, if they speak with us infidels, they simulate friendliness, but in reality they are disgusted by us, by our living and our laws, friendly only to keep their existence in their host country.

So the only solution is to remove ISLAM together with their muslims totally from our countries, they should go to their Islamic homelands. There is no way to live together with them longer, as they accept the Islamic State. There are no moderate muslims, and they will certainly collaborate with probably  infiltrating IS - commandos. The following events will show the reality behind, and i fear the worst.

So there is no peace and no living together between muslims and us infidels, as they never will accept it, although we are willing to welcome them, if they rebuild their faith by removing the idea of a theocracy totally from their ideology, but that may last another couple of centuries they are behind. In the present situation only a strict separation is possible, and our mistake was to ever host them and later on letting them become powerful by our wrong understood tolerance against them. (Our history, although obsolete for long time, let us blackmail from all sides to offer tolerance to any monster).

Swiss on the other hand have their muslims quite under control as they kept the right distance over all the time and infiltration of terror commandos is hard possible by their strict immigration policy, and inside by their system of single soldiers militionary. But we missed the right handling of this kind of people from beginning. 

[pate]

I do not want to pay anything that has the name "jizzya"

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

I do not want to pay anything that has the name "jizzya"

http://www.nairaland.com/1187900/muslims-what-jizzya

Then stand up and fight against the people, they continue still permanently kiss the ass of ISLAM, our tolerance ends here and now! I only can do it writing serious warnings from my computer in all directions, if the readers continue not to understand the threat we are exposed by ISLAM, they will pay jizzya soon as Hindus do.