ISIS

[Uncle Duke]

I had wondered about the fate of those planes that fled to Iran and was surprised to read a few months back that Iran only just returned them, when the ISIS/Sunni threat to their Shiite pals in Baghdad got hot.  Seeing that they returned to Iraq after 20 years, I wouldn't characterize it as a planned or authorized "move"; more like the IAF pilots (Shiite?) just took them to get their butts out of Dodge.

No, they were ordered to Iran.  The US intercepted Iraqi communications directing them to flee to Iran.  I had not realized any of those a/c had been returned.  Just a month or so ago, "Air Forces Monthly" did a feature article on a major Iranian Air Force exercise, their largest in decades, and there were a good number of the former Iraqi a/c shown taking part.

[albrecht]

Speaking of "Bush Lied People Died" we already have the loser leftwinger war protestors out once again in CA. Anything to give them an excuse to get together and listen to John Lennon and smoke weed. Brought back memories of their worthless ignorant protests in 2003.

There were about 100 different reasons we went into Iraq, all were valid. WMDs, a nukular weapons program, oil, a tyrant leader, UN inspectors kicked out during Clinton, a massive threat to national security. Unfortunately democrats and the media put polical aspirations way ahead of foreign policy, freedom for people of the Middle East or national security. And they succeeded of couse as now we have elected the most inexperienced president in history and for 2 terms.

"Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors." Bill Clinton - 1998

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/16/transcripts/clinton.html

Maybe people should protest "Clinton Lied, People Died" when he targeted that supposed aspirin factory to take attention away from his scandals. Or when he bombed the Chinese Embassy to help out the Muslim radicals in the Balkans? It is interesting how people selectively forget past actions and statements if they are made from a Clinton or leftist.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

“I’m shocked, shocked to find that the U.S. and some of its European allies helped Saddam make chemical weapons to use against Iran.”

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[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Then there was the time Bush and Cheney destroyed the twin towers so everyone would forget Gore had won the election and Bush was the illegitimate president due to vote tampering.

[Yorkshire pud]

Maybe people should protest "Clinton Lied, People Died" when he targeted that supposed aspirin factory to take attention away from his scandals. Or when he bombed the Chinese Embassy to help out the Muslim radicals in the Balkans? It is interesting how people selectively forget past actions and statements if they are made from a Clinton or leftist.

Would that include the radicals who were rounded up and shot in warehouses and dropped into mass graves?(Many 1000's). Or the women and children (Muslim ones) rounded up, raped, decapitated and their heads put on spikes in warehouses? Found by British soldiers because of the stench. Or the orphanage that was burnt down with the kids in, that my friend ( then a Lt in the RMP) and his lads rescued, nearly killing him in the process? Those radicals?

[albrecht]

Then there was the time Bush and Cheney destroyed the twin towers so everyone would forget Gore had won the election and Bush was the illegitimate president due to vote tampering.

I'm glad you used the term "destroyed." Since we all know, thanks to the brave researcher guests on C2C, that a Tesla-like directed energy beam (possibly in conjunction with holographic images of airliners) was used to destroy them.

[Yorkshire pud]

“I’m shocked, shocked to find that the U.S. and some of its European allies helped Saddam make chemical weapons to use against Iran.”

[attachimg=1]

Say what??? Get outta here! Thems fightn words mister.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

I'm glad you used the term "destroyed." Since we all know, thanks to the brave researcher guests on C2C, that a Tesla-like directed energy beam (possibly in conjunction with holographic images of airliners) was used to destroy them.

I'm glad that you caught it was tongue-in-cheek, and maybe yours was too.  I'm just trying to illustrate that it is public record that the war on Iraq was based on false pretenses, whereas the Clinton incidents are little more than allegations.  Then again the attack on Iraq was what was thought to be an appropriate decision based on the available misinformation, similarly to the attack on the Chinese embassy being done by mistake based on misinformation. So that's a point too which I guess you're trying to make -- that the administrations at the time were trying to do the best they could with the information they had.

[Yorkshire pud]

I'm glad that you caught it was tongue-in-cheek, and maybe yours was too.  I'm just trying to illustrate that it is public record that the war on Iraq was based on false pretenses, whereas the Clinton incidents are little more than allegations.  Then again the attack on Iraq was what was thought to be an appropriate decision based on the available misinformation, similarly to the attack on the Chinese embassy being done by mistake based on misinformation. So that's a point too which I guess you're trying to make -- that the administrations at the time were trying to do the best they could with the information they had.

Except the info pre GW2 was confirmed by various intelligence agencies (French, German, UK and US) as being false; The UK and US admin were told this, but they went ahead anyway. Look up 'Curved Ball' and the 'Spies who fooled the world'.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

Say what??? Get outta here! Thems fightn words mister.

Spoken like a usual suspect.  Guess I can forget about all that "beautiful friendship" jazz you're always yammering about, then. 

[attachimg=1]

[Yorkshire pud]

Spoken like a usual suspect.  Guess I can forget about all that "beautiful friendship" jazz you're always yammering about, then.

I wasn't the conspiracy after all!!! It was always you!!

[albrecht]

Would that include the radicals who were rounded up and shot in warehouses and dropped into mass graves?(Many 1000's). Or the women and children (Muslim ones) rounded up, raped, decapitated and their heads put on spikes in warehouses? Found by British soldiers because of the stench. Or the orphanage that was burnt down with the kids in, that my friend ( then a Lt in the RMP) and his lads rescued, nearly killing him in the process? Those radicals?

Unfortunately, yes. Religious wars are inherently awful. All wars are but when you get religion or sectarian stuff going on it gets really ugly (tho as we have seen even secular governments can do much worse in terms of numbers.) Having said that if I had to choose between Europeans or Christians getting raped and slaughtered versus Asiatic or Middle-Eastern Muslims getting raped or slaughtered I would take the former. (Obviously peace and no war is the best option but if forced between those two options.) An awful decision to make but there is less threat from the former after the war and history has shown that they will adopted a more liberal (in the good sense) of the word government and society than the latter who will just continue their rampage or form more coercive governments.

[SciFiAuthor]

I recall some article and CIA or British reference to these Iraqi WMDs several months ago. Also stories years ago of transfer of chemical stockpiles into Syria (both Baathist leaders.) In any event, "Bush Lied, People Died" mantra will be chanted as we start to escalate the war(s) again under Obama. Especially now that Obama's rebels might get their hand on chemical weapons we will likely need actual troops at some point to fight those rebels-turned-ISIS.

Yeah, I saw it too. And now this. It's just not going to be a good six months from here on out.

It's all hysteria and right wing bullshit, bro.  Don't you know there's a war on women, and homophobia and stuff?

Besides, there's an 11 o'clock tee-time, and a fundraiser after the Presidential Nap

You climate change denier. You didn't even make a token attempt to address climate change in that post. How do you expect to make everyone save the whales and change something and stuff so we can occupy it if you don't repeat the mantras? The mantras man. Fuck it, wanna go smoke a joint and a raid facebook with a post about how the Quiktrip in Ferguson won't let us protest inside because of all the plywood boards? Fuckin' right you do.

Just to be clear, the justifications for invading Iraq and killing over 100,000 Iraqis were the phonied-up evidence of bio and nuke programs; not the remnants of chem weapons abandoned under supervision over a decade earlier.  When Powell went to the UN he presented fake evidence of an anthrax program, and the BS about AL tubes and Nigerian yellow cake ore. 

How the fuck are we supposed to know what happened? The article purports that these chemical weapons were found and were in degraded condition and pre-1991. Alright, I'd like proof of that claim because the UN back in the day was supposed to be finding that kind of shit and didn't. Why? Was this a stockpile? When does it date from precisely? That was the crux of the anti-war argument at one point, as you recall, that the UN wasn't finding anything, but here we are having found enough to suggest that the sites containing it have enough for ISIS to threaten us with it today. Why in the hell is this issue resurfacing in 2014? Two administrations VTA, two administrations during occupation that knew of these buried chem weapons, and we seem to have classified it, kept it classified, hid that we found them and here the fuck it is again as a threat. I'd really like to know why this happened, what was the process in the Bush and Obama administrations? Seriously, why is this issue developing into a question of whether we destroyed Saddam's weapons of destruction sufficiently enough or not after we conquered and hung him?

Accepting chemical weapons from Iraq for safekeeping is quite a different thing than accepting aircraft or missiles.  Particularly when the stated goal of Gulf II was finding and destroying those weapons because we perceived them as a national security threat.

Is it different or easier? Bashar al-Assad had chemical weapons and used them against his insurgents, we know that. What leads you to believe that a transfer of chemical weapons across the Iraqi-Syrian border is somehow different than a wink-wink nod-nod switcheroo? These are governments, they don't have to worry about checkpoints and satellites can be fooled. Everything that preceded Gulf II is now undermined with these buried chemical weapons (we seem to have missed this activity with our satellites, you know, people burying chemical shells), everything everyone fought about in political threads on the internet in those days is now bullshit if ISIS has gained chemical weapons in Iraq. One ISIS use of chemical weaponry that can be traced to Iraq and then everything we believe or have been told about the issue for the last 25 years were lies.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Canada to send six CF-18s and three support aircraft to help in battle against ISIS

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-s-combat-mission-in-iraq-could-last-beyond-6-months-1.2803575

ohhhh, you're in for it now, Islamic State!

[Yorkshire pud]

Canada to send six CF-18s and three support aircraft to help in battle against ISIS

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-s-combat-mission-in-iraq-could-last-beyond-6-months-1.2803575

ohhhh, you're in for it now, Islamic State!

A dozen Mounties and KD Lang and they'll be really sorry.

[VtaGeezer]

How the fuck are we supposed to know what happened? The article purports that these chemical weapons were found and were in degraded condition and pre-1991. Alright, I'd like proof of that claim because the UN back in the day was supposed to be finding that kind of shit and didn't. Why? Was this a stockpile? When does it date from precisely? That was the crux of the anti-war argument at one point, as you recall, that the UN wasn't finding anything, but here we are having found enough to suggest that the sites containing it have enough for ISIS to threaten us with it today. Why in the hell is this issue resurfacing in 2014? Two administrations VTA, two administrations during occupation that knew of these buried chem weapons, and we seem to have classified it, kept it classified, hid that we found them and here the fuck it is again as a threat. I'd really like to know why this happened, what was the process in the Bush and Obama administrations? Seriously, why is this issue developing into a question of whether we destroyed Saddam's weapons of destruction sufficiently enough or not after we conquered and hung him?

IIRC, before Hans Blix, the UN chem wpns inspector in Iraq was an American and just as vocal in opposing the invasion based on WMD.  He was later convicted on kiddy porn or child abuse.  I assume he was guilty but  there'd be no more effective way to destroy someones public credibility if someone in high places wanted to shut him up.

[Uncle Duke]

Is it different or easier? Bashar al-Assad had chemical weapons and used them against his insurgents, we know that. What leads you to believe that a transfer of chemical weapons across the Iraqi-Syrian border is somehow different than a wink-wink nod-nod switcheroo? These are governments, they don't have to worry about checkpoints and satellites can be fooled. Everything that preceded Gulf II is now undermined with these buried chemical weapons (we seem to have missed this activity with our satellites, you know, people burying chemical shells), everything everyone fought about in political threads on the internet in those days is now bullshit if ISIS has gained chemical weapons in Iraq. One ISIS use of chemical weaponry that can be traced to Iraq and then everything we believe or have been told about the issue for the last 25 years were lies.

A couple different sources are claiming ISIS is flying three former IAF MiG-21s captured when they overran an Iraqi air base.  If true, I expect them to lead a short, but very exciting life.  Still, the thought they have chemical weapons and a potential delivery system is disturbing.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

A dozen Mounties and KD Lang and they'll be really sorry.

They always get their man, except for K.D. Lang who always gets her woman.

[albrecht]

IIRC, before Hans Blix, the UN chem wpns inspector in Iraq was an American and just as vocal in opposing the invasion based on WMD.  He was later convicted on kiddy porn or child abuse.  I assume he was guilty but  there'd be no more effective way to destroy someones public credibility if someone in high places wanted to shut him up.

Scott Ritter, it seems from the articles etc I've read that he was guilty of the child thing. You are right, however, it is "best" crime to discredit someone and in days of WiFi and internet likely very easy for someone/agency/company to plant evidence on someone's computer or phone. In this case, however, there was a webcam of him involved so I think he was guilty of the crimes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Ritter

[SciFiAuthor]

IIRC, before Hans Blix, the UN chem wpns inspector in Iraq was an American and just as vocal in opposing the invasion based on WMD.  He was later convicted on kiddy porn or child abuse.  I assume he was guilty but  there'd be no more effective way to destroy someones public credibility if someone in high places wanted to shut him up.

Well that doesn't matter VTA. We're talking about ISIS gaining control of chemical weapons, which means that IIRC was wrong the entire time regardless of who was running it, the US government was wrong under two administrations even though the Bush administration would have benefitted from finding buried chemical weapons but classified it, and the current Iraqi government was wrong and Saddam's chemical weapons might have ended up in the worst possible hands. I mean, is it wrong to ask what the fuck that happened? Everything we were told a decade ago now makes no sense from the left or right perspective of the time. Why?

[SciFiAuthor]

A couple different sources are claiming ISIS is flying three former IAF MiG-21s captured when they overran an Iraqi air base.  If true, I expect them to lead a short, but very exciting life.  Still, the thought they have chemical weapons and a potential delivery system is disturbing.

Yeah, well, Obama told me a few weeks ago that it was highly unlikely Ebola would show up here. Here it is. I don't have a lot of confidence in assurances issued from the government these days. For all I know, they could use captured MIG-21s to attack whatever they wish.

[pate]

IIRC, before Hans Blix, the UN chem wpns inspector in Iraq was an American and just as vocal in opposing the invasion based on WMD.  He was later convicted on kiddy porn or child abuse.  I assume he was guilty but  there'd be no more effective way to destroy someones public credibility if someone in high places wanted to shut him up.

Kim Jong Il in Team America - Hans Blix

'nuff said...

[VtaGeezer]

Well that doesn't matter VTA. We're talking about ISIS gaining control of chemical weapons, which means that IIRC was wrong the entire time regardless of who was running it, the US government was wrong under two administrations even though the Bush administration would have benefitted from finding buried chemical weapons but classified it, and the current Iraqi government was wrong and Saddam's chemical weapons might have ended up in the worst possible hands. I mean, is it wrong to ask what the fuck that happened? Everything we were told a decade ago now makes no sense from the left or right perspective of the time. Why?

It seems likely to be a small cache of forgotten old stuff that was stumbled upon.  The precision of Syrian Army records is in question, and they're no Wehrmacht.  Unless and until more specifics are determined, I'll stick with known and widely accepted facts, i.e., Saddam shut down his NBC in '91. And Assad rid himself of his known stocks with an eye towards staying out of The Hague.

[albrecht]

It seems likely to be a small cache of forgotten old stuff that was stumbled upon.  The precision of Syrian Army records is in question, and they're no Wehrmacht.  Unless and until more specifics are determined, I'll stick with known and widely accepted facts, i.e., Saddam shut down his NBC in '91. And Assad rid himself of his known stocks with an eye towards staying out of The Hague.

Just a few years Assad was a good guy and he (an especially his wife) toast of magazine n newspaper articles. Then, suddenly he is vilified and number one threat. Considering the area's leaders I will take Assad. Frankly I hope he uses up more of those weapons lest they get in the hands of the Obama backed rebels like ISIL etc. If you going to the dock in The Hague go out with a chemical bang and take out more radicals.

[FightTheFuture]

Very odd video. I haven't heard any official word from the administration on it. Obviously propaganda, but I wonder what else we can draw from it.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/27/in-bizarre-new-video-islamic-state-hostage-gives-tour-of-kobane/

[VtaGeezer]

Very odd video. I haven't heard any official word from the administration on it. Obviously propaganda, but I wonder what else we can draw from it.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/27/in-bizarre-new-video-islamic-state-hostage-gives-tour-of-kobane/

It is bizarre.  As were the hostages who serenely read ISIL text before being decapitated.  Both Cantlie and Foley converted to Islam and reportedly embraced it; could that be an angle?

[PB the Deplorable]

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[albrecht]

It is bizarre.  As were the hostages who serenely read ISIL text before being decapitated.  Both Cantlie and Foley converted to Islam and reportedly embraced it; could that be an angle?

I dont watch the beheadings or torture videos (thankfully im not an intel guy or youtube monitor and have too.) But I know that torture, faked killings, etc can change people. Also many cases, at least when our friendly illegals cartel members do it the victims are often drugged or plain exhausted from torture.) Examples esp the chainsaw cases especially seem doped up. There are drugs that render one almost paralysed or not recognizing anything...even when a Zeta/Beltran/Gulf/Dreamer revs up a Stihl chainsaw by your neck. Scary.  And that is, of course,  the point. As you mention also SERE training (and others) could be happening with 'muslim conversions' or so-called Stockholm and brainwashing. Who knows. But intel guys can likely tell. I dont want to watch tho.

[FightTheFuture]

Not getting a good feeling about Kobane.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/10/iraqi-peshmerga-kobane-syria-2014102813728296972.html

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

A month ago, ISIS’s advance looked unstoppable. Now it’s been stopped.

Watching the news, you could be forgiven for thinking that ISIS is an unstoppable juggernaut, sweeping Iraq and Syria in an unending, unstoppable, terrible blitzkrieg.

But you'd be wrong. The truth is that ISIS's momentum is stalled: in both Iraq and Syria, the group is being beaten back at key points. There are initial signs â€" uncertain, sketchy, but hopeful â€" that the group is hurting more than you may think, and has stalled out in the war it was for so long winning. ISIS isn't close to being destroyed. But they are reeling.

http://www.vox.com/2014/10/28/7079695/isis-iraq-syria-defeat