Richard C. Hoagland

[Juan Cena]

I've never quite figured out how a force field is supposed to work, exactly.

I've always thought of it as an energy field used to deflect physical or energy-based attacks.

[Yorkshire pud]

It works alot like that cheap body spray from the dollar store.

Similar to acne; makes a great contraceptive.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

I understand what it does in science fiction, but not how it works.  How do you project a wall of force or energy that can deflect anything that touches it?  It makes no sense.  What sort of force are we talking here?  Gravitational, electro-magnetic, strong, or weak?  How is it confined to a narrow shell that has no effect on anything within it?  How is it projected?  How does it manage to behave like a solid?  How does it absorb phasor attacks?  It's a silly prop that I doubt even Richard's moon aliens could create.

[Juan Cena]

I understand what it does in science fiction, but not how it works.  How do you project a wall of force or energy that can deflect anything that touches it?  It makes no sense.  What sort of force are we talking here?  Gravitational, electro-magnetic, strong, or weak?  How is it confined to a narrow shell that has no effect on anything within it?  How is it projected?  How does it manage to behave like a solid?  How does it absorb phasor attacks?  It's a silly prop that I doubt even Richard's moon aliens could create.

It's an old-school SF concept. How it works depends on the writer and how technical he gets about things.

I find using a force field way more logical than constructing a miles-long glass dome.

[Charles Daniels]

Not sure if I'm the first to bring this up in this thread. But it was mentioned by Falkie in another thread on here that Hoagland doesn't have any accredited educational facilities on his record either as a graduate or some sort of scientist?

It is spectacular if this guy managed to bluff his was onto CBS' science team with no college degree or any sort of legitimate science background.

I've been searching online and can't find any sort of real educational institution in his resume. His resume is absolutely hilarious by the way. He mentions a bunch of big sounding institutions that he was a big deal at, then you search them and they turn into Children's Museums and small town tourist traps.

This man has to be applauded if he's made a 50+ year career of being a con artist in such an intellectual field. Granted he's a special kind of mental ill but this actually makes me respect Hoagland a lot more than I did.

I don't know how swayed to be by credentials. I always keep an open mind.

I can think of two people I've met in my life who bring this home.

I once knew this guy and he lived and breathed Ford automobiles.
You could show him any part off any Ford car, and he could give you a detailed breakdown of that part and tell you what models would be compatible with it.

For a hobby he re-built them and re-conditioned them. He had some amazing roadsters he'd repaired and maintained.

Thing is, he never worked for Ford. He did try to get a job with Ford building cars, but he couldn't pass the job interview process.

And another example that I can think of is a friend of mine who was brought up around computers. His dad used to run a BBS off a C64, and he was taught to program in BASIC when he was four. When we were in our early teens he helped me Sysop a BBS off an 8086. And we had a BBS run off a single 3.5" floppy, and used to get people logging in just to see it work.

Anyway, that guy understood more about how computers actually worked than anyone else I've ever met. He used to build his own computers as a hobby. Through just hanging out with him I got a pretty good grounding. Thanks to him I went off and got the right credentials, got an IT job, and I went off to work for Oxford University in their IT department. 

Him?  He dropped out of high school one month before graduation. He moved to Colorado and started working at some factory putting CD-Rs into boxes.

Thing is -- on paper,  I'm a computer specialist for Oxford University, and he's the high school drop out.

But trust me, if you want to understand something about computers -- talk to that guy.
He forgot more by age 14 than I ever learnt to do my job.

[Charles Daniels]

This is indeed big news.

What gets me is they are actually, again and again, calling it a "pyramid"

Surely, someone at NASA is laughing their guts out, and imagining Richard C Hoagland locked up in a room with an image editing program, and writing foam in the mouth notes about "rectanglinear hyperdimensional geometry"

[Corona Kitty]

I remember when John Carter came out, Hoagie talked about it on c2c almost like it was a documentary.

Hes the only reason i saw that film.... Needless to say i basically kept saying wait what are you on Hoagland? I want some

[Yorkshire pud]

I don't know how swayed to be by credentials. I always keep an open mind.

I can think of two people I've met in my life who bring this home.

I once knew this guy and he lived and breathed Ford automobiles.
You could show him any part off any Ford car, and he could give you a detailed breakdown of that part and tell you what models would be compatible with it.

For a hobby he re-built them and re-conditioned them. He had some amazing roadsters he'd repaired and maintained.

Thing is, he never worked for Ford. He did try to get a job with Ford building cars, but he couldn't pass the job interview process.

And another example that I can think of is a friend of mine who was brought up around computers. His dad used to run a BBS off a C64, and he was taught to program in BASIC when he was four. When we were in our early teens he helped me Sysop a BBS off an 8086. And we had a BBS run off a single 3.5" floppy, and used to get people logging in just to see it work.

Anyway, that guy understood more about how computers actually worked than anyone else I've ever met. He used to build his own computers as a hobby. Through just hanging out with him I got a pretty good grounding. Thanks to him I went off and got the right credentials, got an IT job, and I went off to work for Oxford University in their IT department. 

Him?  He dropped out of high school one month before graduation. He moved to Colorado and started working at some factory putting CD-Rs into boxes.

Thing is -- on paper,  I'm a computer specialist for Oxford University, and he's the high school drop out.

But trust me, if you want to understand something about computers -- talk to that guy.
He forgot more by age 14 than I ever learnt to do my job.

You make excellent points. My younger brother went the BBC (At school) and C64 route before dropping out of school but retaking exams at college..further courses at H E college
.OND HND.. diplomas merits etc..no degree.

Was head hunted from college to programme military flight sims..then various geeky software stuff including firmware on the Sony PS3 (first time at Sony)..stint then with military coms..back now at Sony.

First time at Sony there were six in his office. Four had IT degrees. He was one of two that didn't. Yet he was the accepted go to expert.

Hoagland isn't like that. He peddles scientifically disprovable junk. Sold to those not aware it's junk.

[cweb]

This. I actually think he can be entertaining if he leaves his own Mars stuff off the table and just does straight interviews with people. There's a spark with Hoagland that might make for an interesting show. That said, I am 6000 times more likely to call in with Hoagland than I am with Art's show to call BS on something. But I think Hoagland is going to surprise us and may call out his guests even more than Art does. There's a smart guy under all that luxuriant hair, he may be a loon or a con man, take your pick, but let's not forget that some people get by in life by basically bullshitting their way along or getting lucky. That describes every politician in existence today. So let's give Hoagie a chance. If he sucks, well, no one's holding a gun to our head to listen. If he doesn't, well, there we go.

Agreed. I intend to show up with the simple expectation of entertainment and if there's anything more, it's a bonus.

[Charles Daniels]

I already had my fun with RCH in the Dark Matter days when I called in and asked him why a Type 2 alien civilization would build a glass dome on the moon instead of just terraforming it and giving it an artificial atmosphere.


He tried to weasel out of that one with some claims about the Moon's gravity not being able to maintain an atmosphere, but I just asked then why didn't the aliens give the moon artificial gravity. He has to just resort to BS after that.


Heck, why build a glass dome if you could produce a force field, for that matter? Maybe ExPat could answer that one for me.

The moon doesn't have enough gravity to hold onto an atmosphere forever. It would escape over time.   Such as what happened with Mars.

Now I don't believe there are glass domes on the Moon.
But to kick the ball around on your question --

I don't know how much energy it would take to initiate and maintain a forcefield, but its probably well in excess of what you'd need to build a glass dome.

Also, the forcefield would probably consume energy continuously, so any interruption of power supply would be really bad, even for just a fraction of a second.
Your habitat would disappear and depressurize immediately.

[PB the Deplorable]

I don't know how swayed to be by credentials. I always keep an open mind.

I can think of two people I've met in my life who bring this home...

I doubt anyone on this forum would be swayed by credentials alone, either way.

Pointing out Hoagies lack of them is just another factor in the discussion about him and his junk science.  If this was good science on his part, it would seldom even come up.  Heck, if he wasn't so relentlessly obnoxious it probably wouldn't come up

[PB the Deplorable]

The thing about this d-bag is he is ok in small doses, and can be entertaining under the control of, say, Art Bell.  When George Noory started having him on all the time, and let him just go on and on, it was too much.  Way too much.  He is just way too overexposed at this point, and his personality isn't helping.

A whole show to himself, no one to lead him thru an interview, no one to hang up on him and claim to have lost the connection is going to be fun for a short period of time for some due to the spectacle, then brutal. 

My best advice:  don't be yourself, Richard

[Juan Cena]

The moon doesn't have enough gravity to hold onto an atmosphere forever. It would escape over time.   Such as what happened with Mars.

Which is why I brought up the subject of artificial gravity.

Now I don't believe there are glass domes on the Moon.
But to kick the ball around on your question --

I don't know how much energy it would take to initiate and maintain a forcefield, but its probably well in excess of what you'd need to build a glass dome.

Also, the forcefield would probably consume energy continuously, so any interruption of power supply would be really bad, even for just a fraction of a second.
Your habitat would disappear and depressurize immediately.

Since we're talking about (at least) a Type II civilization, which as the theory goes can harness all the power of its (or presumably anybody's) solar system, the ability to create a massive force field shouldn't be a problem.

Recall that the original question supposed an alien civilization with the ability to terraform planets and/or their satellites. This would require a civilization able to harness huge amounts of energies.

[Jackstar]

This would require a civilization able to harness huge amounts of energies.

What did the one flea say to the other flea?

... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. / .-- . / .-- .- .-.. -.- / --- .-. / - .- -.- . / - .... . / -.. --- --.

[K_Dubb]

Come on you guys, don't you even want to hear what music Hoagie picks?  He's got a definite aesthetic sense that could make something cool with the creative control that hosting his own show might bring.  Would love to hear him go all laid-back and trippy, maybe have him talk to an actual physicist -- would flip Art's dynamic on its head.  I want to say his route to success (i. e. delivering an entertaining show) is more on the lovable nutjob end of the spectrum than ranting loon, but plenty have taken the other path.

[Charles Daniels]

thor=Juan a link=topic=340.msg417159#msg417159 date=1435934940]
Which is why I brought up the subject of artificial gravity.

Since we're talking about (at least) a Type II civilization, which as the theory goes can harness all the power of its (or presumably anybody's) solar system, the ability to create a massive force field shouldn't be a problem.

Recall that the original question supposed an alien civilization with the ability to terraform planets and/or their satellites. This would require a civilization able to harness huge amounts of energies.
[/quote]

Human beings can build Supersonic aircraft. So why do they build Cessnas?

In fact they build lots and lots of Cessnas, and since Concorde got axed, no commercial Supersonic aircraft at all.

So you know maybe it takes decades or centuries to terraform something like the moon. Or maybe the Moon has some properties they would rather use to their advantage than change. Or maybe there is some intergalactic law that you can't terraform natural satellites of planets that host life, without permission.

Maybe aliens would look at a situation and think "we can lower down our standard glass dome module and be working on the moon in an hour."

I don't know how artificial gravity and forcefields work, I am sure loads of alien civilisations, hell black projects here on earth probably know lots on these topics. But maybe those aren't the go to technologies. Maybe a cheap Cessna would work better than super sonic jet liners. Or maybe the aliens would read us talking about forcefields and artificial gravity and be laughing at how primitive those ideas are

[Yorkshire pud]

thor=Juan a link=topic=340.msg417159#msg417159 date=1435934940]
Which is why I brought up the subject of artificial gravity.

Since we're talking about (at least) a Type II civilization, which as the theory goes can harness all the power of its (or presumably anybody's) solar system, the ability to create a massive force field shouldn't be a problem.

Recall that the original question supposed an alien civilization with the ability to terraform planets and/or their satellites. This would require a civilization able to harness huge amounts of energies.


Human beings can build Supersonic aircraft. So why do they build Cessnas?

In fact they build lots and lots of Cessnas, and since Concorde got axed, no commercial Supersonic aircraft at all.

So you know maybe it takes decades or centuries to terraform something like the moon. Or maybe the Moon has some properties they would rather use to their advantage than change. Or maybe there is some intergalactic law that you can't terraform natural satellites of planets that host life, without permission.

Maybe aliens would look at a situation and think "we can lower down our standard glass dome module and be working on the moon in an hour."

I don't know how artificial gravity and forcefields work, I am sure loads of alien civilisations, hell black projects here on earth probably know lots on these topics. But maybe those aren't the go to technologies. Maybe a cheap Cessna would work better than super sonic jet liners. Or maybe the aliens would read us talking about forcefields and artificial gravity and be laughing at how primitive those ideas are

Although I'm prepared to accept that it's highly unlikely we're the only life in the universe; that in itself begs the question: Why would a vastly more technologically advanced race travel to populate a grey satillite of a planet billions of miles away?

[zeebo]

Come on you guys, don't you even want to hear what music Hoagie picks?  ...

Good question, and now you've actually got me curious as I have no idea what he'll play.

[ItsOver]

I've never quite figured out how a force field is supposed to work, exactly.

Not to worry.  Dave is working on it.

[zeebo]

Not to worry.  Dave is working on it.

Hint .. It involves a karaoke machine.

[ItsOver]

Hint .. It involves a karaoke machine.

Yes, he uses it to amplify the suckage force field.  Terrifying.

[BobGrau]

I'll play... maybe the moon itself is the forcefield.




(keanu face)

[PB the Deplorable]

... I want to say his route to success (i. e. delivering an entertaining show) is more on the lovable nutjob end of the spectrum than ranting loon, but plenty have taken the other path.

You know that and most know that, but does Hoaxie know it?  And if so, will he be able to stick to it?

[K_Dubb]

You know that and most know that, but does Hoaxie know it?  And if so, will he be able to stick to it?

I hope as part of Art's operation I hope he'll receive some guidance.  I guess all we can do is trust Art's radio instincts which, I think, based on how he's handled Hoagie in the past, are in line with most of ours.

[Juan Cena]

thor=Juan a link=topic=340.msg417159#msg417159 date=1435934940]
Which is why I brought up the subject of artificial gravity.

Since we're talking about (at least) a Type II civilization, which as the theory goes can harness all the power of its (or presumably anybody's) solar system, the ability to create a massive force field shouldn't be a problem.

Recall that the original question supposed an alien civilization with the ability to terraform planets and/or their satellites. This would require a civilization able to harness huge amounts of energies.


Human beings can build Supersonic aircraft. So why do they build Cessnas?

In fact they build lots and lots of Cessnas, and since Concorde got axed, no commercial Supersonic aircraft at all.

There are more Cessnas than there were Concordes because "top 1%ers" (to use a term I strongly dislike) don't want to fly around with the "99%ers ," among other reasons.


Also, the eventual failure of the Concorde to catch on had a lot to do with the fact that its range of service was limited to a number of airports, thanks to concerns in America over "noise pollution" caused by the sonic booms created by the aircraft, among other reasons.

So you know maybe it takes decades or centuries to terraform something like the moon. Or maybe the Moon has some properties they would rather use to their advantage than change. Or maybe there is some intergalactic law that you can't terraform natural satellites of planets that host life, without permission.

Maybe aliens would look at a situation and think "we can lower down our standard glass dome module and be working on the moon in an hour."


I don't know how artificial gravity and forcefields work, I am sure loads of alien civilisations, hell black projects here on earth probably know lots on these topics. But maybe those aren't the go to technologies. Maybe a cheap Cessna would work better than super sonic jet liners. Or maybe the aliens would read us talking about forcefields and artificial gravity and be laughing at how primitive those ideas are[/font][/size]

]It doesn't seem logical that aliens would carry around a glass dome or domes that could cover huge areas of lunar surface in their starships if the device or devices needed to generate a force field were relatively small, and more economical and faster to set up.


Now, the aliens could have nanotech that could generate an airtight glass dome out of materials from the lunar surface. However, if the plan is to terraform the moon using nanotech, there would really be a need for a glass dome (or a force field), as the nanos wouldn't need breathe air to begin with. They could first artificially alter the moon's gravity to where it could hold an atmosphere, then step by step transform the moon to where it could become hospitable for life.

Remember, this exercise is to debunk RCH, not support his theories.

[Juan Cena]

Although I'm prepared to accept that it's highly unlikely we're the only life in the universe; that in itself begs the question: Why would a vastly more technologically advanced race travel to populate a grey satillite of a planet billions of miles away?

Maybe its idea of "uplifting" (to borrow a term from David Brin) a fledgling species like ourselves involves terraforming other planetary and lunar surfaces so as to encourage us to explore other worlds. Each world could another link in a chain on the road to turning us into a spacefaring civilization.

[SredniVashtar]

There are more Cessnas than there were Concordes because "top 1%ers" (to use a term I strongly dislike) don't want to fly around with the "99%ers ," among other reasons.

I'm not sure about that. Concorde was pretty exclusive, and you wouldn't fly on it unless you had a lot of money. It wasn't some budget airline full of screaming kids on holiday to Benidorm. It was always a bit of a publicity thing (like putting a man on the moon) rather than a practical concern - 'let's see if we can build a passenger jet that can go beyond the speed of sound', and, what's more, do it in collaboration with the French (who know a thing or two about collaboration, of course). Add to that the crash that happened in France, and people decided that the expense and the risk weren't worth it. I used to see Concorde fly over my house every evening, and it seemed oddly moving when it eventually went on the scrapheap.

[Juan Cena]

I'm not sure about that. Concorde was pretty exclusive, and you wouldn't fly on it unless you had a lot of money. It wasn't some budget airline full of screaming kids on holiday to Benidorm. It was always a bit of a publicity thing (like putting a man on the moon) rather than a practical concern - 'let's see if we can build a passenger jet that can go beyond the speed of sound', and, what's more, do it in collaboration with the French (who know a thing or two about collaboration, of course). Add to that the crash that happened in France, and people decided that the expense and the risk weren't worth it. I used to see Concorde fly over my house every evening, and it seemed oddly moving when it eventually went on the scrapheap.

All I know is that it seemed that there were only about three or four places Concorde flew to. New York, London, Paris, and somewhere in the Caribbean, I believe. As I said above, NIMBYs apparently were successful in keeping it from flying into anywhere in the US other than NYC.


It's pretty sad that short-sightedness has kept the world from becoming anything like what people imagined it could be like in the 50s and 60s. I listen to something like Donald Fagen's "IGY" with a lot of melancholy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sogYgHlNnqo

[SredniVashtar]

All I know is that it seemed that there were only about three or four places Concorde flew to. New York, London, Paris, and somewhere in the Caribbean, I believe. As I said above, NIMBYs apparently were successful in keeping it from flying into anywhere in the US other than NYC.

[size=78%]

The whole point about Concorde was to say that you had flown on Concorde. It had great snob value but, as you say, it wasn't anything that you could use for most practical purposes, if they flew to so few places. London to New York was the big one, but it could only cater for a small group of people who had the money to do it. It was also so small with its narrow fuselage; I don't know how many people you could fit inside it, but it wasn't that many. An amazing achievement and a beautiful looking aircraft, but they never really had an idea how it was going to make money.

[Juan Cena]

The whole point about Concorde was to say that you had flown on Concorde. It had great snob value but, as you say, it wasn't anything that you could use for most practical purposes, if they flew to so few places. London to New York was the big one, but it could only cater for a small group of people who had the money to do it. It was also so small with its narrow fuselage; I don't know how many people you could fit inside it, but it wasn't that many. An amazing achievement and a beautiful looking aircraft, but they never really had an idea how it was going to make money.

Being able to travel more places would have helped.