Random Political Thoughts

[Yorkshire pud]

True, as you mention. Germany is reaping what is sown by importing Turks for more than a few decades (imported legally, by the way) and they have a generation of "Germans" who feel more Muslim or Turkish than German. But this latest bunch is not coming legally. And, so far, Bush and Blair hasn't attacked or destabilized Turkey. So what is their excuse and gripe?

If you are hungry enough you eat anything you can. Beggars can't be choosers; as we used to say. And if you have that much fortitude to be able to refuse food due to your religion than I guess starve and be happy in knowing that you are going to meet Allah or whomever.  If you are really starving and as bad off as their apologists claim they wouldn't have the energy to riot, attack police, fight amongst each other, rape, scale fences and trains, or throw food back at helpers. And as far as I know water is not forbidden to the Muslims? So why do the rioting 'refugees' often throw that back at the police and volunteers who are so graciously trying to help them?

Yeah, okay. 

[paladin1991]

We Canadians are mostly upset our government isn't taking in enough Syrian refugees.  I'm sad to see the opposite sentiment in America.

You can have some of ours.  But we will keep the Christians.

[CornyCrow]

I had a nightmare that Hillary was elected president.  0/10, do not want to have again.  God help us all.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Republicans have much of a chance of winning, so which Democrat do you favor over Hillary? 

[albrecht]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Republicans have much of a chance of winning, so which Democrat do you favor over Hillary?

I think Biden and Bernie could be fun in a way. Both are somewhat decent on gun issues in the past and both can be hilariously non-PC. Bernie and his bizarre rape fantasies/theories would be hilarious when it comes to "political correctness" and the various lobbies and pressure groups. The country likely wouldn't prosper but it has been through worse. And the debates between Bernie and Biden could be interesting: not just for the foot-in-mouth or more radical ideas but because Biden comes from the most corporate-friendly of corporate friendly states and Bernie wants to tear down that system.

[Eddie Coyle]

  (1) Mulatto President = black    Mulatto Mass Murderer = mixed race.

   (2) How many Doctors Without Borders workers were murdered by Putin or Assad yesterday? It's less than Obama's tally.

    (3) Was the "terrorists were hiding in hospital" excuse written in it's original form of Hebrew?

[albrecht]

  (1) Mulatto President = black    Mulatto Mass Murderer = mixed race.

   (2) How many Doctors Without Borders workers were murdered by Putin or Assad yesterday? It's less than Obama's tally.

    (3) Was the "terrorists were hiding in hospital" excuse written in it's original form of Hebrew?

A bad week for victims of mulattoes. Where are the protesters? Even Bush didn't bomb hospitals. I found it interesting how the media tried to play up 'hate' and make it seem like this crazy shooter guy was a white guy motivated by 'hated' but downplay his anti-Christian bias and actual race (CNN even 'whitened' his picture a bit. I think some magazines did that with Obama during his initial campaign also.)
The Army has a new patch:
http://www.armytimes.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/23/army-iraq-syria-isil-saddam-hussein/72700176/
It almost looks like Obama's Muslim Brotherhood symbol. Strange.

[CornyCrow]

I think Biden and Bernie could be fun in a way. Both are somewhat decent on gun issues in the past and both can be hilariously non-PC. Bernie and his bizarre rape fantasies/theories would be hilarious when it comes to "political correctness" and the various lobbies and pressure groups. The country likely wouldn't prosper but it has been through worse. And the debates between Bernie and Biden could be interesting: not just for the foot-in-mouth or more radical ideas but because Biden comes from the most corporate-friendly of corporate friendly states and Bernie wants to tear down that system.

I'm a big advocate for fingerprint guns, but have little support in that.  No one could steal them and use them against you.  You could leave them loaded around the house without fear that your kids would get hold of them.  They can be programmed for multiple fingerprints and if you try to change them you permanently destroy the gun. 

I agree with Art that the much bigger problem is the lack of mental health assistance that is affordable for the common guy.  I also am shocked that these shooters seem oddly not to be detected by family, teachers, or fellow workers.  One of Art's callers mentioned the possibility of some mind-bending program that triggered these mass killings.  It IS strange that on one seems to come forward in such cases saying they knew the guy would do something like this - that he was a ticking time bomb.

I'm not familiar with Bernie's rape scenarios. 

[albrecht]

I'm a big advocate for fingerprint guns, but have little support in that.  No one could steal them and use them against you.  You could leave them loaded around the house without fear that your kids would get hold of them.  They can be programmed for multiple fingerprints and if you try to change them you permanently destroy the gun. 

I agree with Art that the much bigger problem is the lack of mental health assistance that is affordable for the common guy.  I also am shocked that these shooters seem oddly not to be detected by family, teachers, or fellow workers.  One of Art's callers mentioned the possibility of some mind-bending program that triggered these mass killings.  It IS strange that on one seems to come forward in such cases saying they knew the guy would do something like this - that he was a ticking time bomb.

I'm not familiar with Bernie's rape scenarios.

Though many blame Reagen the problem started before him and with the (a correct movement but went too far) movement for civil rights for the mentally ill. Now it is very hard to get actually crazy people help, on proper medication (where warranted and proven effective,) or institutionalized, if necessary. I actually agree to a point, in the past it was far too easy for a "troublesome teen," an embarrassing alcoholic wife, etc to be put away and I almost always err on the side of the individual vs the collective/state. But clearly there is a problem when people, sometimes, who even WANT help cannot afford it and those who are a clear danger cannot be stopped. Where we have institutions like the VA who make jokes about veteran suicides or going postal. And I will be pilloried but I also think there is something wrong with our media and "games" that contribute to nihilism and desire to become famous by killing people.

Re: Bernie rape fantasies. I think over-played and satire, albeit juvenile and a poor attempt.
http://www.inquisitr.com/2127031/bernie-sanders-women-fantasize-about-gang-rape/
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/29/410606045/the-bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy-essay-explained

[Eddie Coyle]

A bad week for victims of mulattoes. Where are the protesters? Even Bush didn't bomb hospitals. I found it interesting how the media tried to play up 'hate' and make it seem like this crazy shooter guy was a white guy motivated by 'hated' but downplay his anti-Christian bias and actual race (CNN even 'whitened' his picture a bit. I think some magazines did that with Obama during his initial campaign also.)

   Chris Harper-Mercer looks like he could be Obama's brother. Actually, far more than Trayvon being Obama's son. But, funny, Obama didn't personalize this event, beyond a rote "these massacres on my watch ain't my fault" jeremiad. He will not be crooning at a funeral for these victims.

     Harper-Mercer probably had Daddy issues(the IRA fascination?) he had a black version of Nancy Lanza as a mother and was a "Nazi" who deeply admired Vester Flanagan.

[paladin1991]

The Army has a new patch:
http://www.armytimes.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/23/army-iraq-syria-isil-saddam-hussein/72700176/
It almost looks like Obama's Muslim Brotherhood symbol. Strange.

Eeeesh.  Thank the Living Christ that I am a Marine and not a soldier.  That is hideous.  I would dread putting that on my uniform.

[paladin1991]

Re: Bernie rape fantasies. I think over-played and satire, albeit juvenile and a poor attempt.
http://www.inquisitr.com/2127031/bernie-sanders-women-fantasize-about-gang-rape/
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/29/410606045/the-bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy-essay-explained

Maybe his wife has a gangbang rape fantasy.

[CornyCrow]

Though many blame Reagen the problem started before him and with the (a correct movement but went too far) movement for civil rights for the mentally ill. Now it is very hard to get actually crazy people help, on proper medication (where warranted and proven effective,) or institutionalized, if necessary. I actually agree to a point, in the past it was far too easy for a "troublesome teen," an embarrassing alcoholic wife, etc to be put away and I almost always err on the side of the individual vs the collective/state. But clearly there is a problem when people, sometimes, who even WANT help cannot afford it and those who are a clear danger cannot be stopped. Where we have institutions like the VA who make jokes about veteran suicides or going postal. And I will be pilloried but I also think there is something wrong with our media and "games" that contribute to nihilism and desire to become famous by killing people.

Re: Bernie rape fantasies. I think over-played and satire, albeit juvenile and a poor attempt.
http://www.inquisitr.com/2127031/bernie-sanders-women-fantasize-about-gang-rape/
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/29/410606045/the-bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy-essay-explained

We are often not given enough information on these shooters.  How can parents rear such a child, the kid go through the educational system, have friends, and NO ONE find his behavior frightening until he decides to off a bunch of strangers in public? 

If some people did think he needs help, where would they go to report this?  The cops will not intervene until a law is broken and unless the person is thrown into prison, his behaviour is just allowed to fester.

I'm not sure why Bernie's comments are considered controversial.  People have many fantasies that they really would not wish to act out.  We've evolved from more primitive animals and still carry their emotions.

On John Oliver last night John blamed Pres. Kennedy for closing down the mental institutions but not funding the clinics that were to replace them.  Art says it was Reagan.  In New York City, it was Ed Koch.

[SredniVashtar]

We are often not given enough information on these shooters.  How can parents rear such a child, the kid go through the educational system, have friends, and NO ONE find his behavior frightening until he decides to off a bunch of strangers in public? 

It may be different there, but in the UK we have sub judice laws which inhibit the press from giving more than the barest details until the case has gone to trial. This can be several years later, by which time most people have forgotten all about it, but it often turns out to have many more elements than were reported at the time.

I'm not sure why Bernie's comments are considered controversial.  People have many fantasies that they really would not wish to act out.  We've evolved from more primitive animals and still carry their emotions.

Speak for yourself! 

That's just the election smear machine getting into gear. Anyone remotely on the left who says something that isn't totally mainstream and bland gets pilloried for it. People are frightened of ideas in general, and anyone who says anything that might require a little thought and discussion finds themselves ostracised. It used to annoy me, but these days it is just amusing to see the same things go on year after year. You can't have a grown-up discussion about drugs without people trying to shut you down for saying anything at all.

I haven't read some of the predictable reactions, but it sounds the sort of thing that those cloth-headed eunuchs from Mother Jones and elsewhere just live for. Every time I look at the Media Matters website my balls shrivel up. I have never encountered such a bunch of clueless ninnies dithering on about absolutely nothing, just so they can tell themselves how impeccably liberal they are. Sanders doesn't have to defend it as 'satire' either. If he had any guts he'd tell these idiots to pound sand because it is true for some women, and it is no big deal. But there are so many no-go areas in public debate that it just resolves into throwing out a bunch of cliches that won't offend anybody. Bloody hopeless!

On John Oliver last night John blamed Pres. Kennedy for closing down the mental institutions but not funding the clinics that were to replace them.  Art says it was Reagan.  In New York City, it was Ed Koch.

It was called "Care in the Community" here. Lots of people who really needed help were thrown into hostels with little help from anyone. It was simply a cost-cutting measure by the lovely Tories with no thought for the implications, and all they wanted was to flog off the land for as much as they could get. A care home near me was demolished and turned into a housing estate, and these poor bastards were left to wander around. It was not unusual to find them standing by the side of the road, bewildered, wanting to cross but not knowing what to do.  Not surprisingly, people who should have been kept away from the public started attacking people and the term "Care into Community" fell into disrepute, unsurprisingly.

[onan]

It was called "Care in the Community" here. Lots of people who really needed help were thrown into hostels with little help from anyone. It was simply a cost-cutting measure by the lovely Tories with no thought for the implications, and all they wanted was to flog off the land for as much as they could get. A care home near me was demolished and turned into a housing estate, and these poor bastards were left to wander around. It was not unusual to find them standing by the side of the road, bewildered, wanting to cross but not knowing what to do.  Not surprisingly, people who should have been kept away from the public started attacking people and the term "Care into Community" fell into disrepute, unsurprisingly.

The closings of mental health facilities over the past 40+ years in the US is a complicated and variegated issue. Prior to Reagan, the biggest push for reduction in mental health was primarily two reasons. One, it was becoming apparent that paying for the number of people in the hospital as opposed to paying for successful treatment was and continues to be a failing approach. Two, civil rights.

Adding the environment of squalor to institutions and smaller facilities due to poor funding, poor training and even poorer employment hiring standards gave everyone enough reason to believe community care was a better solution. And in many instances that is true.

Make no mistake, however, Reagan, his cronies, and an indifferent society are all to blame for the prevalence of homelessness. The argument that keeps getting made to this day is how much cheaper it is to use the community for care of the mentally ill. To some extent that is true. But in reality there are more costs, those costs are just harder to track. Our police and judicial system are over burdened by the mentally ill because they are ill equipped to handle the issue. In many instances the response by police is simply to ignore or disregard the problem because there are bigger problems to deal with. I can't tell you the number of times I have been told by police officers "yeah he is drunk and walking in traffic but he really isn't bothering anyone." I can't tell you how many times I have filled out involuntary commitment papers only to have them ignored and 24 hours later the paperwork is now worthless and has to be rewritten and refiled, which can take hours.

After that, the judicial system becomes involved, now we have a mentally ill patient that will be judged guilty to a felony charge, usually assault on an officer (one with no training in dealing with the mentally ill). Now that patient is no longer able to find housing in an average apartment complex. Now that patient is relegated to substandard housing (many times what amounts to a crack house).

All of this costs us lots of money. And none of that money is going to reduce a problem, in actuality, it is increasing the problem.

[CornyCrow]

That's just the election smear machine getting into gear. Anyone remotely on the left who says something that isn't totally mainstream and bland gets pilloried for it. People are frightened of ideas in general, and anyone who says anything that might require a little thought and discussion finds themselves ostracised. It used to annoy me, but these days it is just amusing to see the same things go on year after year. You can't have a grown-up discussion about drugs without people trying to shut you down for saying anything at all.

I haven't read some of the predictable reactions, but it sounds the sort of thing that those cloth-headed eunuchs from Mother Jones and elsewhere just live for. Every time I look at the Media Matters website my balls shrivel up. I have never encountered such a bunch of clueless ninnies dithering on about absolutely nothing, just so they can tell themselves how impeccably liberal they are. Sanders doesn't have to defend it as 'satire' either. If he had any guts he'd tell these idiots to pound sand because it is true for some women, and it is no big deal. But there are so many no-go areas in public debate that it just resolves into throwing out a bunch of cliches that won't offend anybody. Bloody hopeless!

Partisan politics takes over and blinds us from accepting reality.  I thought liberals were not supposed to be fearful of breaking new ground, of being creative.  It's a sad world when we are so deeply entrenched. 

[CornyCrow]

The closings of mental health facilities over the past 40+ years in the US is a complicated and variegated issue. Prior to Reagan, the biggest push for reduction in mental health was primarily two reasons. One, it was becoming apparent that paying for the number of people in the hospital as opposed to paying for successful treatment was and continues to be a failing approach. Two, civil rights.

Adding the environment of squalor to institutions and smaller facilities due to poor funding, poor training and even poorer employment hiring standards gave everyone enough reason to believe community care was a better solution. And in many instances that is true.

Make no mistake, however, Reagan, his cronies, and an indifferent society are all to blame for the prevalence of homelessness. The argument that keeps getting made to this day is how much cheaper it is to use the community for care of the mentally ill. To some extent that is true. But in reality there are more costs, those costs are just harder to track. Our police and judicial system are over burdened by the mentally ill because they are ill equipped to handle the issue. In many instances the response by police is simply to ignore or disregard the problem because there are bigger problems to deal with. I can't tell you the number of times I have been told by police officers "yeah he is drunk and walking in traffic but he really isn't bothering anyone." I can't tell you how many times I have filled out involuntary commitment papers only to have them ignored and 24 hours later the paperwork is now worthless and has to be rewritten and refiled, which can take hours.

After that, the judicial system becomes involved, now we have a mentally ill patient that will be judged guilty to a felony charge, usually assault on an officer (one with no training in dealing with the mentally ill). Now that patient is no longer able to find housing in an average apartment complex. Now that patient is relegated to substandard housing (many times what amounts to a crack house).

All of this costs us lots of money. And none of that money is going to reduce a problem, in actuality, it is increasing the problem.

Sure.  You'd think that some of these seriously ill people could have been caught when much younger and more 'fixable'.  And you are right, that some of these poor souls are more serious than community care can adequately handle.  We really need something between community and prisons to catch these folks.

[SredniVashtar]

Partisan politics takes over and blinds us from accepting reality.  I thought liberals were not supposed to be fearful of breaking new ground, of being creative.  It's a sad world when we are so deeply entrenched.

"Scratch a liberal, find a Fascist" is perfectly true in lots of ways. That's why right-wing types can be more fun to be around because they aren't so burdened by ideology, even if their views are wrong and disgraceful. The worst sort of liberal wants everyone to be exactly like them and is totally humourless about any departure from their orthodoxy. It is weird that liberalism, in the economic sense, was all about laissez-faire, but now it is all about rigid codes of behaviour that people are loath to question. And I am much more on that side than the other, but it still irks me no end.

[SredniVashtar]

The closings of mental health facilities over the past 40+ years in the US is a complicated and variegated issue.

Thanks for that, it was very interesting reading.

I don't think anyone wants to go back to the time where mental homes were a dustbin for people to put those whom society didn't want to cope with or even recognise, even if we could afford it. But there are obviously those who are likely to present a danger to themselves and others, and there is no real system in place to deal with that, it seems. I am sure paperwork is a big issue, and the whole thing  disappears beneath a mountain of red tape, instead of actually addressing a problem. I don't know if these shooters, for example, generally present symptoms that could be treated, or if they are just angry people who it is easy to regard as outwardly normal. This isn't an area I have any knowledge about.

But CitC here was a disaster and became a byword for the inadequate provision of mental care. It was all about making money by selling off land, and saving money on buildings that housed vulnerable people. I don't know if there is any codified way of assessing those who it is actually necessary to keep secure, or it is all a judgement call for the mental health professional concerned? I am sure it can't be too rigid anyway, but it seems like whatever they have in place needs an overhaul, and very quickly.

[chefist]

If this is approved by Congress, I'm at an 85% chance that I will have to move my production to Mexico from the United States just to compete...

I will maintain corporate, R/D, purchasing, reduced warehouse in the US...but I am not optimistic for the production folks...We barely make it as it is with current tariffs...I actually agree with the socialist Bernie Sanders on this one....


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/business/trans-pacific-partnership-trade-deal-is-reached.html?_r=0

[b_dubb]

Related to onan's post

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/07/04/419443253/la-police-unit-intervenes-to-get-mentally-ill-treatment-instead-of-jail

[Eddie Coyle]

    Armstrong Williams only serves to confirm Carson is a frivolous candidate and nothing more. Carson's approval ratings will be down low soon enough. Just like Armstrong has been accused of being.

[Lt.Uhura]

Related to onan's post

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/07/04/419443253/la-police-unit-intervenes-to-get-mentally-ill-treatment-instead-of-jail

"Jails were not set up to be treatment facilities," says Mark Gale, who serves as criminal justice chairman for the LA County Council of the National Alliance On Mental Illness. "People get worse in jail."

This isn't always true.

Typically as public officials become frustrated with the growing homeless population their first response is to allocate more money for more "services", including healthcare, counseling, living accommodations, job training, etc.  In theory these services are designed to get people off the streets, and there are success stories.  But in reality too many simply walk away from the services provided them, choosing instead to return to homeless encampments where they live in unsafe and unsanitary conditions until they mentally and/or physically deteriorate and are brought back to the ER where the cycle begins again.

Some have told me they have tried to get arrested and go to jail where they receive the same services as homeless outreach programs, but without the ability to leave.  For some individuals, jail is safer than the streets, as if those two options were their only choice.

[onan]

"Jails were not set up to be treatment facilities," says Mark Gale, who serves as criminal justice chairman for the LA County Council of the National Alliance On Mental Illness. "People get worse in jail."

This isn't always true.

Typically as public officials become frustrated with the growing homeless population their first response is to allocate more money for more "services", including healthcare, counseling, living accommodations, job training, etc.  In theory these services are designed to get people off the streets, and there are success stories.  But in reality too many simply walk away from the services provided them, choosing instead to return to homeless encampments where they live in unsafe and unsanitary conditions until they mentally and/or physically deteriorate and are brought back to the ER where the cycle begins again.

Some have told me they have tried to get arrested and go to jail where they receive the same services as homeless outreach programs, but without the ability to leave.  For some individuals, jail is safer than the streets, as if those two options were their only choice.

Both conditions are true. Jails are not set for therapy, especially mental health therapy. The milieu isn't stable, safe, or private. The formularies are very poor, many times there is little regard for antipsychotic administration due to short intervals of stay.

But, yes some patients have learned that jail many times is safer than the street. More so when weather is severe. What really complicates this is a coexisting disorder, usually a personality disorder which engenders many forms of malingering.

I have had a few clients that would choose jail over housing. And that is quite indicative of a personality problem rather than a psychotic problem.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

The closings of mental health facilities over the past 40+ years in the US is a complicated and variegated issue. Prior to Reagan, the biggest push for reduction in mental health was primarily two reasons. One, it was becoming apparent that paying for the number of people in the hospital as opposed to paying for successful treatment was and continues to be a failing approach. Two, civil rights.

Adding the environment of squalor to institutions and smaller facilities due to poor funding, poor training and even poorer employment hiring standards gave everyone enough reason to believe community care was a better solution. And in many instances that is true.

Make no mistake, however, Reagan, his cronies, and an indifferent society are all to blame for the prevalence of homelessness. The argument that keeps getting made to this day is how much cheaper it is to use the community for care of the mentally ill. To some extent that is true. But in reality there are more costs, those costs are just harder to track. Our police and judicial system are over burdened by the mentally ill because they are ill equipped to handle the issue. In many instances the response by police is simply to ignore or disregard the problem because there are bigger problems to deal with. I can't tell you the number of times I have been told by police officers "yeah he is drunk and walking in traffic but he really isn't bothering anyone." I can't tell you how many times I have filled out involuntary commitment papers only to have them ignored and 24 hours later the paperwork is now worthless and has to be rewritten and refiled, which can take hours.

After that, the judicial system becomes involved, now we have a mentally ill patient that will be judged guilty to a felony charge, usually assault on an officer (one with no training in dealing with the mentally ill). Now that patient is no longer able to find housing in an average apartment complex. Now that patient is relegated to substandard housing (many times what amounts to a crack house).

All of this costs us lots of money. And none of that money is going to reduce a problem, in actuality, it is increasing the problem.

You know, I think I'm gaining a reputation for saying dark shit on the politics forum. But if you think about it, that's a really smart business farming these people instead of caring for them. Instead of singular governmental bureaucracies getting all the money to take care of these people, letting them roam does create a lot more work which means more jobs and more money floating around.

After stepping over bodies where I didn't know if they were alive or dead being a hourly thing when I used to live in a big liberal city, I'm glad at the least that these folks are helping the economy.

The thing that blows my mind. I can't remember what it was. Whether it was a Presidential visit or some shooting or something political. But for about two weeks, all of a sudden the thousands of homeless who had occupied blocks and blocks of the city down by the waterfront and train tracks just disappeared. It was one of the strangest things I had ever seen to have the city quiet, clean and peaceful. But two weeks later they were back like nothing happened. To me that shows things are the way they're supposed to be.

[albrecht]

But for about two weeks, all of a sudden the thousands of homeless who had occupied blocks and blocks of the city down by the waterfront and train tracks just disappeared. It was one of the strangest things I had ever seen to have the city quiet, clean and peaceful. But two weeks later they were back like nothing happened. To me that shows things are the way they're supposed to be.

Yeah, during Presidential visits, Political Conventions, Papal visits, etc they often clean up the streets. Not sure where they take them (if they arrest them on some charge that they normally would ignore like public lewdness, public intox, etc or if they offer them something to move or if they just round em up and store them somewhere.) I know some cities were getting into trouble by offering one-way bus tickets to "friendly" cities. And the more accommodating and helpful the city tends to draw more in. There also seems to be a, relatively, new type of homeless the past few decades. Where they used to be older hobo types, drunks/junkies, or really mentally ill now they are younger goth/punk types subculture with iPhones and way more aggressive in their panhandling (and other crimes.) More of an odd life-style choice, not something forced upon them by a debilitating mental illness, or it seems.

[paladin1991]

The thing that blows my mind. I can't remember what it was. Whether it was a Presidential visit or some shooting or something political. But for about two weeks, all of a sudden the thousands of homeless who had occupied blocks and blocks of the city down by the waterfront and train tracks just disappeared. It was one of the strangest things I had ever seen to have the city quiet, clean and peaceful. But two weeks later they were back like nothing happened. To me that shows things are the way they're supposed to be.

did you see vans of homeless being carted off?  Did you see coppers going into abandoned buildings to extract them?  Were they just 'disappeared?'  I figure that's how it will be when they come for us.  One day, your neighbor realizes that he hasn't seen your for a week or two.  He'll then shrug, steal the paper off your lawn and go have his morning shit.

[FightTheFuture]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-conflict-russian-cruise-missiles-crash-in-iran-a6686856.html


                что ебать ??

[GuerrillaUnReal]

Yeah, during Presidential visits, Political Conventions, Papal visits, etc they often clean up the streets. Not sure where they take them (if they arrest them on some charge that they normally would ignore like public lewdness, public intox, etc or if they offer them something to move or if they just round em up and store them somewhere.) I know some cities were getting into trouble by offering one-way bus tickets to "friendly" cities. And the more accommodating and helpful the city tends to draw more in. There also seems to be a, relatively, new type of homeless the past few decades. Where they used to be older hobo types, drunks/junkies, or really mentally ill now they are younger goth/punk types subculture with iPhones and way more aggressive in their panhandling (and other crimes.) More of an odd life-style choice, not something forced upon them by a debilitating mental illness, or it seems.

Yeah I know what you're saying. Where I came from it was a lot of aggressive street punks who were varying degrees of civil, then you had the street gypsies, then you had the heroin addicts which were like scurrying rats, then you had the normal street people who all had their hustles. I used to hang in a den of street kids/punks and get high with them all the time. I think a lot of them are small towners who move to the big city, get caught up in the dope scene or whatever scene thinking it's glamorous and then slowly lose their souls getting taken advantage of. Also rape, incest and abuse is rampant thing that no one gives a fuck about or even talks about that is way more prevalent than anyone knows. That drives a lot of the kids out.

It's definitely a jungle which society not only doesn't care about but doesn't understand. When I was young and stupid I used to run with what in my adulthood I guess you'd call a gang even though it didn't seem like it back then. We got the shittiest apartments in town which at the time was in Chinatown because that was all we could afford. That was really where I came to understand the law of the jungle because beatings, stabbings, robberies and all manner of evil was a nightly thing there as we'd go out getting fucked up until the wee hours of the morning and then inviting any trouble that came our way on the way home. We were all middle class white kids but the savagery and freedom of it all was appealing. I did about six months of that before I took my retarded ass to college.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

did you see vans of homeless being carted off?  Did you see coppers going into abandoned buildings to extract them?  Were they just 'disappeared?'  I figure that's how it will be when they come for us.  One day, your neighbor realizes that he hasn't seen your for a week or two.  He'll then shrug, steal the paper off your lawn and go have his morning shit.

I have no idea which is the creepiest thing of all as I worked in the bars around that area frequently and I thought I had my ear to the pavement pretty good in the area.

When you live in the city long enough and you want to maintain liberal ideas, eventually part of your brain has to stop functioning. So after years of crazy homeless shit, I didn't even see them anymore. Yet on Sundays I would always get to one of the bars I worked at early to watch the homeless feedings in the square out front. Every Sunday eveningish, a local church group would come and feed the homeless in that square. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say about 100-200 just wrecks of humanity would show up then fill the square eating what the church gave them. For the first time in probably two years, no one showed up, not a soul. The missionaries were just standing around bored and confused. I then realized that the zombie plague on the city was gone and everything was quiet and still. It was completely unsettling. Even the homeless characters who I had known and recognized were gone.

Asked around a bit about it and it was some political thing. Like I said, I'm sorry I don't remember exactly what it was. But stuff like this happened constantly. That city was corrupt from top to bottom yet like I said, people have to turn off their brains there to function.

[Lt.Uhura]

Both conditions are true. Jails are not set for therapy, especially mental health therapy. The milieu isn't stable, safe, or private. The formularies are very poor, many times there is little regard for antipsychotic administration due to short intervals of stay.

But, yes some patients have learned that jail many times is safer than the street. More so when weather is severe. What really complicates this is a coexisting disorder, usually a personality disorder which engenders many forms of malingering.

I have had a few clients that would choose jail over housing. And that is quite indicative of a personality problem rather than a psychotic problem.

Meanwhile, the costs to cities across the US for the homeless, with or without mental illness, are in the MILLIONS of dollars, yet like in Los Angeles--their numbers continue to grow. 

There are no easy solutions, and most plans fail in assuming the homeless will willingly cooperate and participate in efforts to get them off the streets.

One of the worst solutions I've heard is taking services to the homeless encampments--another strategy that sounds good in theory, but fails in practice.  The idea of providing services unconditionally only enables them to continue their self-destructive behaviors. A Bandaid on a plague.

Homelessness in itself is not a crime for which you can lock people up.  But the majority do have outstanding warrants for petty crimes, and as mentioned in the PBS story above provided by b_dubb-- 


"The man involved in this call has three outstanding warrants for low-grade misdemeanors, including public drinking. Technically, any of them qualifies him for arrest. But Simola says today, he won't be carted off to jail.

"He'll have to appear on the warrants later," Simola says..."

Right.  As if a chronically homeless, mentally ill individual has the wherewithal to appear in court.

I'd propose homeless detention centers, preferably in a rural setting outside cities.  Maybe call them ReEntry Camps.  If "jails were not set up to be treatment facilities", why not build ones that can provide treatment?...Drug and alcohol rehab, mental health services, GED, job training--all of the services provided in homeless outreach but in a safe and controlled environment, with an emphasis on teaching self-sufficiency, and basic activities of daily living (ADLs), sadly lacking in today's society.