Random Political Thoughts

[136 or 142]

1.I have nothing to gain from seriously engaging a sheer partisan like you.

You aren't a sheer partisan?

2.Like your party, you aren't interested in the commerce of ideas.
This from a supporter of a party that worships a President who has been out of office for nearly 30 years.

[3OctaveFart]

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/115-jumping-to-conclusions

I've never voted Republican in my life.

[NowhereInTime]

I have nothing to gain from seriously engaging a sheer partisan like you.
Your Wilson defense told me all I needed to know.
Like your party, you aren't interested in the commerce of ideas.
Your lips are firmly suctioned to the president's butt cheeks.
That's great for you but not of much interest to everyone else.

That's about as lame an attempt to save face as I've ever seen

"Commerce of ideas"?  What ideas? You insulting Barry isn't "commerce", it's a clearance sale.

Does this mean you're going to "ignore" me again and, By God, this time you really mean it?

[136 or 142]

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/115-jumping-to-conclusions

I've never voted Republican in my life.

1.I don't believe you.

2.The Libertarians and the Constitution Party are even worse than the Rethuglic Party, though not by much anymore, and neither party has produced a single practical policy proposal ever.

[NowhereInTime]

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/115-jumping-to-conclusions

I've never voted Republican in my life.

No, probably some lame-ass unicorn chasing libertarian. Lemme guess, "audit the Fed"? Back to the Gold Standard? No government except defense and the enforcement of contracts?

Yeah, wake me when you get even one Libertarian member of Congress elected.

[136 or 142]

No, probably some lame-ass unicorn chasing libertarian. Lemme guess, "audit the Fed"? Back to the Gold Standard? No government except defense and the enforcement of contracts?

Yeah, wake me when you get even one Libertarian member of Congress elected.

There used to be a couple Libertarian State Representatives in Alaska and there was briefly a Constitution Party State Representative in Montana.

Of course, Ron Paul was a Libertarian in Congress but even as nuts as he was he knew he had to run on the Republican Party ticket to get elected.

[albrecht]

There used to be a couple Libertarian State Representatives in Alaska and there was briefly a Constitution Party State Representative in Montana.

Of course, Ron Paul was a Libertarian in Congress but even as nuts as he was he knew he had to run on the Republican Party ticket to get elected.

Sure. Heaven forbid! It isnt like leftists don't use this tactic in a two party system. Sure he couldve, if he believed in terrorism, went full-on 3rd party n had his people bomb and kidnap people, to speak francois. But he liked peace and political process. In which he knew he would loose but, maybe, help turn a party around some (he also ran on 3rd party for a while) but no bombing, kidnappings Canada-style. He lost, too bad but he at least got a conversation started. And he never, like some, said secession etc just more "devolution" (to paraphrase Blair who copied it) to an older, Constitutional model. More local control, less wars, more freedom. Very, very bad.

[136 or 142]

Sure. Heaven forbid! It isnt like leftists don't use this tactic in a two party system. Sure he couldve, if he believed in terrorism, went full-on 3rd party n had his people bomb and kidnap people, to speak francois. But he liked peace and political process. In which he knew he would loose but, maybe, help turn a party around some (he also ran on 3rd party for a while) but no bombing, kidnappings Canada-style. He lost, too bad but he at least got a conversation started. And he never, like some, said secession etc just more "devolution" (to paraphrase Blair who copied it) to an older, Constitutional model. More local control, less wars, more freedom. Very, very bad.

Devolution in The U.K far preceded Blair as Scotland and Wales had their own legislatures up to the early 1980s when Thatcher abolished them.

I don't know that Ron Paul favored 'more local control' and he was a member of a party that favors more wars and less freedom. 

However, by nuts, I was referring to him being a member of the loony cult of Von Mises devotees.

[albrecht]

Devolution in The U.K far preceded Blair as Scotland and Wales had their own legislatures up to the early 1980s when Thatcher abolished them.

I don't know that Ron Paul favored 'more local control' and he was a member of a party that favors more wars and less freedom. 

However, by nuts, I was referring to him being a member of the loony cult of Von Mises devotees.

Look him up before commenting. He was against almost every Federal aggrandizement,  tax, or war. (Btw I hate repling on a phone so 'please forgive same' as Charlie Chan might say. He does have some questionable opnions (as u mention gold vs silver; which is more rural, small business friendly. Britain had those wars earlier. But I was mentioning, that u ignored, he never, unlike Candians advocated bombings, kidnappings, etc for their separatism. Just the natural and inherent Federal system that allowred more sovereignity to States and people.

[136 or 142]

I'm familiar with Ron Paul, despite being a libertarian he was somehow anti abortion and his newsletters were filled with vile racism written by somebody else that he claimed he knew 'nothing about'.

A man who can't even manage his own newsletters is clearly incapable of being President.

[3OctaveFart]

Enough said.

[136 or 142]

Satan Ronnie was as much in the military as Wavy Gravy.

Dumbya served in the National Guard so that he could get out of being sent to Vietnam.

For a person who claims to have never voted Rethuglic you sure spend a lot of time either defending them or promoting them.

[3OctaveFart]

If you and your buddy want to keep riding Fart's ass on this thread I am going to have to ask you both to put a quarter in the slot.
I'm not here to win a peace prize, boys.
If I promote anything it is the accurate proportion of the image in the lower right corner.
God is he a sorry excuse for a chief executive, eh?

[NowhereInTime]

If you and your buddy want to keep riding Fart's ass on this thread I am going to have to ask you both to put a quarter in the slot.
I'm not here to win a peace prize, boys.
If I promote anything it is the accurate proportion of the image in the lower right corner.
God is he a sorry excuse for a chief executive, eh?

Is this another one of your "credentialed" opinions?  You put up a bunch of pictures to contrast all their uniform pictures with him in ethnic garb to somehow denigrate him as "which one of these is not like the other" and we're supposed to be impressed?

I prefer a chief executive who is deliberate, pragmatic, and reserved (Eisenhower, Carter, GHWB, Obama). 

You can keep Bedtime for Bonzo, Watergate, the Pardoner in Chief, the absentee National Guard pilot and I'll even throw in Bubba the Band leader for good measure. 

If GHWB hadn't been awol on the economy, he'd have been reelected. If Johnson hadn't been so eager to prove his anti-commie chops, his domestic triumphs would have defined him as one of our greats, as well.  An ideal president may have been someone with Johnson's gregarious nature, consensus building, and sense of social justice combined with GHW's gravitas, sense of mission, ability to form good working relations, and knowledge of global affairs. 

[136 or 142]

Is this another one of your "credentialed" opinions?  You put up a bunch of pictures to contrast all their uniform pictures with him in ethnic garb to somehow denigrate him as "which one of these is not like the other" and we're supposed to be impressed?

I prefer a chief executive who is deliberate, pragmatic, and reserved (Eisenhower, Carter, GHWB, Obama). 

You can keep Bedtime for Bonzo, Watergate, the Pardoner in Chief, the absentee National Guard pilot and I'll even throw in Bubba the Band leader for good measure. 

If GHWB hadn't been awol on the economy, he'd have been reelected. If Johnson hadn't been so eager to prove his anti-commie chops, his domestic triumphs would have defined him as one of our greats, as well.  An ideal president may have been someone with Johnson's gregarious nature, consensus building, and sense of social justice combined with GHW's gravitas, sense of mission, ability to form good working relations, and knowledge of global affairs.

Gregarious?  Johnson insisted on keeping the bathroom door open and that his aides keep talking to him while he was on the toilet!

[paladin1991]

I thought 15% of Americans were uninsured (for various reasons), and additional millions had crappy insurance.  15% of 320 million is 48 million.  If ObamaCare is so great, shouldn't there be 48 million enrollees, plus millions more who preferred that to what they had?
That's the way it was supposed to work.
What about the lie claim that it would save every household an average of $2500 - where are we with that?
Ummm, yeeeaah.  About that.
By either of those measures, ObamaCare fell far short of it's goal.  In the business world, this would be considered a shocking failure and would be addressed immediately - it would be either fixed or abandoned.
And somebody gets shitcanned.


Not to mention the damage done to our Republic by a Supreme Court wrongly determining the federal government has power to intervene in our lives to this extent, and to intervene in an industry to this extent.  And the damage done to our Republic by this President setting precedent by dictatorially issuing new law, and unilaterally changing law, rather than going back to Congress to make the changes necessary for ObamaCare to function.
For Fucks sake, spit it out, what do you want?  You keep making noises that sound like words.  I'm confused.

[b_dubb]

Enough said.

Ol Dubbya sure did shoot down a lot of VC aircraft when he was AWOL from Texas Air National Guard. He saved the freedom and the children and Murica singlehandedly.

Threaten the Hoover he did. Over a mirror with razor blade in hand.

[3OctaveFart]

I have never voted Republican in my life, to repeat.
That said, I thought GWB was more entertainment value than this current Ivy League egghead.
People get nervous when a sitting president compares a powerful terrorist arm to a junior varsity squad.
Neither should have gotten a second term- but we are a sad and silly country.

[PB the Deplorable]

Now that the nuclear talks with Iran are near the deadline, and we are at endgame, it is being reported the Obama Administration is caving to Iran's remaining demands in order to get a deal - any deal - done.

Specifically, Iran is not going to be required to disclose the entirety if it's program.  So much for Obama's Big Lie Promise of rigorous inspections.  Can't inspect what we don't know about (as if Iran wasn't going to lie about what they were doing anyway). 

Additionally, Iran will still be allowed to run centrifuges.  Processed uranium ore produces uranium oxide.  Uranium oxide contains U-235 (about 1%) and U-238 (99%) isotopes.  U-235 is needed to make nuclear bombs, and in order to do that the U-235 must be separated from the U-238 and the amount of U-235 must be increased.  This is called enrichment, and that's what these centrifuges do.  What good are inspectors if this is allowed?


This was a bad deal before, it's much worse now.

This President is a menace and a threat to our national security.  He has been all along,  It is impossible for me to believe this level of bumbling are all just mistakes from someone doing their best on our behalf. 

Removing sanctions, allowing the Iranians to go forward without inspections at the most controversial sites, what exactly are the benefits of this deal for us?


On top of all that, the Saudi's are already looking to begin their own nuclear project.  No doubt soon to be joined by Egypt and Turkey.  The predictable and predicted outcome of this foolish deal with Iran.


When this President was first running for office, those who paid attention and weren't caught up in the euphoria told everyone this guy hates the US, hates Israel, and has a blind eye and a tin ear when it comes to Islamic terror.  An Alinsky-ite, one of these Leftist throwbacks who hate everything about the West and would reverse the advances humanity has made that came out of The Enlightenment if they could. 

Now look what he's done.  As those who pay attention, who understand history and human nature have been saying all along, the world is going to be very much worse off with this 'agreement'.

[NowhereInTime]

Now that the nuclear talks with Iran are near the deadline, and we are at endgame, it is being reported the Obama Administration is caving to Iran's remaining demands in order to get a deal - any deal - done.

Here is "reported":

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/u-s-caves-to-key-iranian-demands-as-nuke-deal-comes-together/

They do the same thing you do; they claim something is "reported" without any citation.

What's fact got to do with narrative, anyway?

Specifically, Iran is not going to be required to disclose the entirety if it's program.  So much for Obama's Big Lie Promise of rigorous inspections.  Can't inspect what we don't know about (as if Iran wasn't going to lie about what they were doing anyway).

Again, there is no legitimate source for this information.  In fact (no offense), here's something from a news service that actually does this for a living:
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/27/us-iran-nuclear-idUSKBN0MN1KU20150327

Additionally, Iran will still be allowed to run centrifuges.  Processed uranium ore produces uranium oxide.  Uranium oxide contains U-235 (about 1%) and U-238 (99%) isotopes.  U-235 is needed to make nuclear bombs, and in order to do that the U-235 must be separated from the U-238 and the amount of U-235 must be increased.  This is called enrichment, and that's what these centrifuges do.  What good are inspectors if this is allowed?

Well, shit, Oppenheimer! Here, you are janitor; in Russia, you were physicist!

The Big Bang Theory - Physics Bowl Last Question

This was a bad deal before, it's much worse now.

Especially when you make shit up and add to it.  Hey, did you hear Obummer's going to give Iran B-1 bombers to persuade them not to bomb Israel?  It's been reported...

This President is Conservatives are a menace and a threat to our national security.

Edited for accuracy.

He has been all along,  It is impossible for me to believe this level of bumbling are all just mistakes from someone doing their best on our behalf.

Perhaps if he wore a Don Knotts mask?  Oh, then you'd be offended by "whiteface" as reverse racism. 

Removing sanctions, allowing the Iranians to go forward without inspections at the most controversial sites,

Thankfully none of that is true.

what exactly are the benefits of this deal for us?

I , for one, get to read more Chicken Little conservatives bitching a blue streak.  Always fun to see how far you will stretch hyperbole into something even more duplicitous.

On top of all that, the Saudi's are already looking to begin their own nuclear project.  No doubt soon to be joined by Egypt and Turkey.  The predictable and predicted outcome of this foolish deal with Iran.

Or the Invisible Hand of the Free Market doin' its thing...

When this President was first running for office, those who paid attention and weren't caught up in the euphoria told everyone this guy hates the US, hates Israel, and has a blind eye and a tin ear when it comes to Islamic terror.  An Alinsky-ite, one of these Leftist throwbacks who hate everything about the West and would reverse the advances humanity has made that came out of The Enlightenment if they could.

Nobody said this.  Any of this. 

Now look what he's done.

Killed bin Laden, blunted Putin's aggression, drawn the Iranians to the negotiating table, ended the Iraq War, ended the Afghanistan War, ended our dependence on foreign oil...

As those who pay attention, who understand history and human nature have been saying all along, the world is going to be very a much worse off better place with this 'agreement'.

Edited for accuracy.

The key is "those who pay attention".  Seeing as how not one of your predictions has come true in 6 years, you clearly have not paid attention.

[PB the Deplorable]

Ok fine, I got it.  You're an O-bot to the end. 

Let me ask you this - if this turns out to be what it looks like, removal of sanctions and removal of any threat to destroy their nuclear facilities on the part of NATO or the US, with Iran allowed to conceal their activities (and thus those sites not be inspected) and/or allowed to continue running the centrifuges in order to enrich uranium oxide, will you then agree it's a bad deal?

How about Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and/or Turkey declaring that due to Iran's nuclear weapons goals now being unchecked, they will begin work on their own program(s).  Do you think that would be a bad outcome?  Would that change your opinion of this 'agreement'?

Or is Obama just so smart, so wonderful, that anything he does is smart and wonderful too?  Is his legacy so important to you that you don't mind Iran and other getting nuclear weapons, as long as Obama can pretend he finally had a foreign policy success?

[NowhereInTime]

Ok fine, I got it.  You're an O-bot to the end.

Hells yeah! Your ex calls me the "O-Bot"!   Sorry.  It was there.

Let me ask you this - if this turns out to be what it looks like, removal of sanctions and removal of any threat to destroy their nuclear facilities on the part of NATO or the US, with Iran allowed to conceal their activities (and thus those sites not be inspected) and/or allowed to continue running the centrifuges in order to enrich uranium oxide, will you then agree it's a bad deal?

Yes.

How about Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and/or Turkey declaring that due to Iran's nuclear weapons goals now being unchecked, they will begin work on their own program(s).  Do you think that would be a bad outcome?

The worst.  Multiple Islamic Fundamentalists with nuclear weapons?  Apocalypse.

Would that change your opinion of this 'agreement'?

Yes.  Proliferation is guaranteed extinction.

Or is Obama just so smart, so wonderful, that anything he does is smart and wonderful too?

No.

Is his legacy so important to you that you don't mind Iran and other getting nuclear weapons, as long as Obama can pretend he finally had a foreign policy success?

No.

[PB the Deplorable]

... Perhaps if he wore a Don Knotts mask?  Oh, then you'd be offended by "whiteface" as reverse racism...   

Took you long enough to insert race into that post.  Perhaps a new record?

There must be a psychological reason for these 'Progressives' to need to insert race into every conversation.  As if they know they don't really have facts and common sense to back up their claims. 

It's straight out of Alinsky, and I believe them when the say they've never heard of the guy - it's an indication of just how much they've been influenced by the America haters without even knowing it. 

As far as their crutch of inserting race into everything, there is something sick and disturbing about it.  It's certainly not helping race relations or solving any problems, just the opposite.

...Nobody said this.  Any of this... 

That's weird, because the O-bot swooners spent most of their time during the campaign and the aftermath denying it. "He's not a Muslim', 'he's not a Muslim sympathizer', 'he's not a Marxist', 'he's not an America hating Leftist'.  'He just sat in Rev Wright's church for 20 years - he didn't hear it or agree with it'.   "When he said 'spread the wealth around' he didn't mean more Socialism''.  'When he said 'you didn't build that' he wasn't impugning entrepreneurs'.  When he talked about people 'clinging to their guns and religion' 'he wasn't dissing Americans and American culture'.  No, of course not.

No, the America hating associates he ran with, from what little we knew about him, 'those were just acquaintances'.  Terrorist Bill Ayres was 'just a guy he knew from the neighborhood'. 

Now we are told one said any of this before he got into office.

[PB the Deplorable]

... Yes... Yes... No... No.

Glad to see you're still sane, or at least pretending to be.

I really hope you're right about this 'agreement'.  But I strongly doubt it.

I give him credit for giving the OK to that Seal sniper shooting those pirates, and the killing of Obama.  I like the continued drone attacks.  It would be great to add other foreign policy successes.

[albrecht]

Glad to see you're still sane, or at least pretending to be.

I really hope you're right about this 'agreement'.  But I strongly doubt it.

I give him credit for giving the OK to that Seal sniper shooting those pirates, and the killing of Obama.  I like the continued drone attacks.  It would be great to add other foreign policy successes.

Obama is dead [Osama Obama mix up compilation]

It is funny how easily people mix up the names of these two. I don't know why the news, the politicians, etc never decided to use the "Usama" name (as intelligence agencies, 911 Commission Report etc use) at least to avoid embarrassing mistakes when reporting news and confusing radicals due to their similar names?

[136 or 142]

1."Took you long enough to insert race into that post.  Perhaps a new record?"
This from a "guy" who can't resist  inserting patriotism into his posts.

2."There must be a psychological reason for these 'Progressives' to need to insert race into every conversation.  As if they know they don't really have facts and common sense to back up their claims."
This from a "guy" who has never used a single fact to back up his claims, and constantly falls for claims that are easily shown to be factually wrong, some common sense.
 
3."It's straight out of Alinsky, and I believe them when the say they've never heard of the guy - it's an indication of just how much they've been influenced by the America haters without even knowing it." 
The only 'America haters' I know are the people who voted to reelect the America Haters Dumbya and his Big Dick.  After all, who else but a person who hates America would start a war of choice based on a series of lies and who else but an 'America hater' would vote to reelect them?  So if you want to see a real 'America Hater' Man*Boy take a look at your loser self in the mirror.

I personally am very aware of Saul Alinsky, and I don't know of a single person who loved his country more than he did.  I can only guess you consider him an 'America Hater' because he challenged the powerful, the people you fight for, or, at least, would fight for, if you had actually had a brain to fight with.

[albrecht]

I personally am very aware of Saul Alinsky, and I don't know of a single person who loved his country more than he did.

Well, actually, likely true it is just another country he loved, if any. But that is water over the bridge. I would say his radicalism aside this character Obama and others of his ilk, and the problem more generally, should be looked at from Antonio Gramsci's theories and perspectives and then, depending on the "wing" of the vanguard, an internal fight between the more Fabian (Hillary and her types) or the Obama wing (who seems to me to be a wanna-be Pan-Arabist Socialist type (Munif al-Razzaz, etc.) as he leans towards a more "non-Western" socialist and anti-colonial bent. But who, really knows, with such a messed guy with such a weird, and mysterious, background, upbringing, and mentoring!

[136 or 142]

Obama is a liberal, not a socialist, and a rather moderate liberal at that.

[albrecht]

Obama is a liberal, not a socialist, and a rather moderate liberal at that.

It is important to define terms, as a classic technique, indeed a core one of leftists is to redefine terms (the classic being "conservative" or "liberal" which mean different things, indeed opposites, historically) and with the clear motivation of leftists, interestingly how the "red/blue" coloration even has been distorted by the American media! Now the so-called "conservatives", though really liberal in the States, are colored "red" in the briefings! Obama, or whatever his name is this decade, is a "radical" in that he not only promised to "fundamentally change" the country he is doing so via the Obama Doctrine of open-borders, Obama "dreamers", etc. He didn't hide it. His mentors, his writings, and his actions speak to this. He's no "liberal" in the usual, historical sense as he sees government as the ultimate savior and arbiter of everything. To him, government is to redistribute but not even in a kind way (heck, that is the basis of our income tax for many decades) but in a vindictive way. Not, so much, to help poor people but to punish others. But, like many fellow travelers, power needs to rest with a "choice few", mainly him, because the rest of us aren't bright enough. These so-called petite bourgeois are the stumbling block to enlightenment and revolution. Interestingly this, ignoring the ever persistent rumors of personal motivations, is why his total focus is always on the BLT issues and the homosexual stuff. In some Marxist thought the family is the real problem; as it, in their twisted logic, helps keep the patriarchal, capitalist Western hegemony in place. Thus even though his own government agencies say the homosexual, BLT, or whatever is far less than 6 percent of the population (CDC survey) it is an ever key focus. He is more concerned with trannies in the military than actual military operations! Amazingly weird.

[136 or 142]

It is important to define terms, as a classic technique, indeed a core one of leftists is to redefine terms (the classic being "conservative" or "liberal" which mean different things, indeed opposites, historically) and with the clear motivation of leftists, interestingly how the "red/blue" coloration even has been distorted by the American media! Now the so-called "conservatives", though really liberal in the States, are colored "red" in the briefings! Obama, or whatever his name is this decade, is a "radical" in that he not only promised to "fundamentally change" the country he is doing so via the Obama Doctrine of open-borders, Obama "dreamers", etc. He didn't hide it. His mentors, his writings, and his actions speak to this. He's no "liberal" in the usual, historical sense as he sees government as the ultimate savior and arbiter of everything. To him, government is to redistribute but not even in a kind way (heck, that is the basis of our income tax for many decades) but in a vindictive way. Not, so much, to help poor people but to punish others. But, like many fellow travelers, power needs to rest with a "choice few", mainly him, because the rest of us aren't bright enough. These so-called petite bourgeois are the stumbling block to enlightenment and revolution. Interestingly this, ignoring the ever persistent rumors of personal motivations, is why his total focus is always on the BLT issues and the homosexual stuff. In some Marxist thought the family is the real problem; as it, in their twisted logic, helps keep the patriarchal, capitalist Western hegemony in place. Thus even though his own government agencies say the homosexual, BLT, or whatever is far less than 6 percent of the population (CDC survey) it is an ever key focus. He is more concerned with trannies in the military than actual military operations! Amazingly weird.

1.You mean like the way conservatives attempted to change their definitions to say Dumbya wasn't really a conservative once his favorable ratings fell through the floor after proudly stating how much he was one of theirs only two years earlier?

2.Satan Ronnie also promised to 'fundamentally change the country' and was the first President to have 'open borders' even passing a law giving them amnesty.  I guess that makes Satan Ronnie a 'socialist'.

3.Obama has a few mentors who may or may not have been socialists, he also has a number of mentors like Valerie Jarrett and Penny Pritzker who were successful business people.  Though there are some socialist business business, most business people aren't socialists, except, of course, when it comes to wanting hand outs. 

Of course rather than looking at Obama's mentors, we have 8 years of Obama's votes as a State Senator, 4 years of his votes as a U.S Senator and 6 years of him as President to look at to see what his policies are.  I don't know of anything he has done that would qualify as 'socialist.'

Again, to definitions. Socialism: government control or ownership of the 'commanding heights' of the economy.  Defined by Marx as a middle period between capitalism and the ultimate goal under communism of the 'withering away of the state' (or the government I forget which he stated and don't really care) and practiced for a few years by Lenin in the Soviet Union under his 'New Economic Policy.'

4.So, raising the highest tax rate back up to where it was under Clinton when a number of millionaires became billionaires is 'punishment'?

5.Obama likes McDonald's Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato sandwiches?  As a vegetarian, I have to say I'm very saddened by this news.

6.The only people still obsessed with homosexuality are the "Christian" conservatives.  I see absolutely no evidence that Obama is 'obsessed' with gays or that he has ever spent more than a few minutes on the topic. 

7.I also fail to see how allowing gays to marry or live as equals to heterosexuals takes away in any way from heterosexual marriages or threatens 'the foundations of the family.' And this is not only me, but the Canadian Supreme Court as well as the courts in what, 35 U.S states?

8.As to your claim that Obama 'wants to control everything', it's pretty obvious you are suffering a rather severe case of Obama Derangement Syndrome.  This is unfortunate, because unlike man*boy, you seem to be rather intelligent and we seem to actually share a lot of the same interests and opinions in non political matters.

I also fail to see what 'open borders' or gay marriage has to do with socialism. For instance, the U.S Libertarian party favors both open borders (and much more completely than just for the illegal aliens) and gay marriage.  Are you now going to tell me that the U.S Libertarian Party is also socialist?