President Donald J. Trump

[albrecht]

Being that most of us here are here only by birth, it should at least give pause to the thought of "Hey, I got mine, you get yours". Personally, with all the meddling we have done in Central and Southern America, I think we are getting off light. Yes NAFTA and now the TPP are horrible and should not only be shredded but also limiting corporations from continued out sourcing has done more damage than people coming here to escape the horrors of their countries. We should have done a better job managing immigrants. Gee, I wonder why we didn't?

There is so much spin from wing nuts that it is difficult to find any reliable information on what goods will cost without low wage slaves. But it would be interesting to find out.

People have suggested punishment for companies and individuals that hire illegal immigrants. Has anyone here tried to hire workers for ground work? Good luck with that. I would hazard that most homes being built today use undocumented labor. The only person that has come to bid on putting in an asphalt or cement driveway was an illegal alien that has started a small company. The "legal" paving companies aren't interested because the cost will only be a measly 5 grand.

Now add Trump... are you fucking serious. You believe he doesn't use illegal labor, or do so by proxy? You guys are nuts.

How would taking the talent, and even the trabajeros, help the countries you are so concerned about? You think capital, and personal, flight of the educated, rich, or just hard-working will help those countries? And how does the importation of the uneducated, criminal, or diseased help ours? Going rate for basic work here is $120/day for a manual laborer, more if they can speak English a bit or skilled (oddly, a hint, you want to hire the older ones as the younger ones are lazy.) Legal or illegal- because it would be racist or xenophobic to ask- and things are done in cash or through contractors. But a decent wage for an uneducated person who won't pay taxes (except in things like sales, gas, etc) likely. And usually includes lunch and transport from place of pick-up to work location. In the past the open-border policy worked great, I guess, if you are a builder, contractor, farmer, rancher, etc: privatize the profit, socialize the costs and the costs were less. But NOW they don't "go home" and now bring their wife and children. (It used to be only the workers would come and even return home for major holidays- sometimes using La Migra to do so.) So now that 'cheap' labor we got comes with providing meals, education, and healthcare for all their children and, with the spread of the cartels, more sex trafficking, corruption, and violence here. And neither "helps" Mexico, Honduras, Guatamala, etc with their problems. (And I agree our meddling there is troublesome and so is our bailouts, aide, and open-border- it does not encourage change to corrupt systems.)

[onan]

How would taking the talent, and even the trabajeros, help the countries you are so concerned about? You think capital, and personal, flight of the educated, rich, or just hard-working will help those countries? And how does the importation of the uneducated, criminal, or diseased help ours? Going rate for basic work here is $120/day for a manual laborer, more if they can speak English a bit or skilled (oddly, a hint, you want to hire the older ones as the younger ones are lazy.) Legal or illegal- because it would be racist or xenophobic to ask- and things are done in cash or through contractors. But a decent wage for an uneducated person who won't pay taxes (except in things like sales, gas, etc) likely. In the past the open-border policy worked great, I guess, if you are a builder, contractor, farmer, rancher, etc: privatize the profit, socialize the costs and the costs were less. But NOW they don't "go home" and now bring their wife and children. (It used to be only the workers would come and even return home for major holidays- sometimes using La Migra to do so.) So now that 'cheap' labor we got comes with providing meals, education, and healthcare for all their children and, with the spread of the cartels, more sex trafficking, corruption, and violence here. And neither "helps" Mexico, Honduras, Guatamala, etc with their problems.

I was hoping to avoid this, notice I deleted the post.

I'm saying you're nuts. I'm saying the prices that you aren't aware of are going to cost you more. I'm saying that our government and our culpability has helped to destabilize other governments and now we are seeing the migration of those fleeing the shit holes they have lived in. I'm saying that the cheap bananas you have enjoyed for decades have helped to fuel the poverty in other countries.

I don't live in fear because of pandering. If you want to stop crime, fight for equal standards of living everywhere.

Mostly I am saying those people are every bit as human as you are and at least deserve stability in their lives and future. And building a wall as inefficient as it will be will do nothing but incite more hatred.

[albrecht]

I was hoping to avoid this, notice I deleted the post.

I'm saying you're nuts. I'm saying the prices that you aren't aware of are going to cost you more. I'm saying that our government and our culpability has helped to destabilize other governments and now we are seeing the migration of those fleeing the shit holes they have lived in. I'm saying that the cheap bananas you have enjoyed for decades have helped to fuel the poverty in other countries.

I don't live in fear because of pandering. If you want to stop crime, fight for equal standards of living everywhere.

Mostly I am saying those people are every bit as human as you are and at least deserve stability in their lives and future. And building a wall as inefficient as it will be will do nothing but incite more hatred.

Sorry, but often those countries in which we have meddled, wrongly in many and infamous cases, enforce their own borders (though usually have a process to funnel the illegals, after some graft or raping, to ours.) And we still are paying billions to defend other countries borders around the world, rightly or wrongly. But borders are "ok" for other countries- not just for the US or Western Nations, by some weird logic. Sure, things can cost more. But that also means a living wage for those jobs (and often better service.) And more stability, cultural hegemony, less crime, and less social costs (now we are going to provide DINNER for students, often illegal, in my schools. DINNER?) Socializing the costs and privatizing the benefits of an open-border only benefit those evil "elites" or "corporations" most leftists bitch about. And how, pray-tell, does capital and human flight even of the smart, hardworking, or honest "help" those countries reform?

[MV/Liberace!]

US foreign aid to Mexico is $420 million a year. Trumps wall is estimated to cost $15 to $25 billion. $420 million would be a total of 26 miles of wall, out of 2000 miles. US taxpayers would pay for the wall one way or another.

last year, mexican immigrants sent about $23 billion back to mexico.  if they simply taxed those transfers at 10%, there's 2.3 billion per year through just one adjustment.

[MV/Liberace!]

Tax remittances being sent to Mexico - that's how to pay for the wall,eventually.

oops.  beat me to it.

[onan]

Sorry, but often those countries in which we have meddled, wrongly in many and infamous cases, enforce their own borders (though usually have a process to funnel the illegals, after some graft or raping, to ours.) And we still are paying billions to defend other countries borders around the world, rightly or wrongly. But borders are "ok" for other countries- not just for the US or Western Nations, by some weird logic. Sure, things can cost more. But that also means a living wage for those jobs (and often better service.) And more stability, cultural hegemony, less crime, and less social costs (now we are going to provide DINNER for students, often illegal, in my schools. DINNER?) Socializing the costs and privatizing the benefits of an open-border only benefit those evil "elites" or "corporations" most leftists bitch about. And how, pray-tell, does capital and human flight even of the smart, hardworking, or honest "help" those countries reform?

Since the only open borders we are talking about are ours, the argument of other countries having closed borders is silly. When the US starts to flood their borders we can discuss that.

Paying billions to defend those countries, are you aware of how many military bases we have in foreign countries, please, the cost in South America, as you said about the cost of rounding up illegals here, is chump change.

Things are going to cost a lot more than, "sure things can cost more". In many ways, I am ok with that, however.

The question of reform is a damned good one. I don't honestly know. I do know that isolating this country is not the way to do it.

As to dinner for someone, yeah it is expensive, I am ok with that, I don't want to have anyone go hungry.

[Juan]

Here's how to stop the illegals.  Start a rumor that they are being sold to Saudi Arabia by the coyotes - the Saudis pay more.  The Mexican men are being beheaded for refusing to accept Islam and the Mexican women are being sold to Arabs as wives.  Even make a couple of videos showing 8-9 year old hihab-wearing Mexican girls following behind their 50-year old husbands and yelling Allahu Akbar. Show some Mexican men tied with hoods over their heads.  Actors for the videos should be easy to find.  Get them going viral in Mexico and Central America.

Doesn't anyone in charge have any imagination?

[chefist]

Makes me laugh...

[Walks_At_Night]

Well I'll give the Trumpster this much.  At least he has the country talking about some of the real issues.    The trade deficit with China is a major problem.   Common Core is pretty damned messed up and needs to be revisited. Having tens of millions of people entering  the country without rhyme or reason is a serious issue.  I really haven't heard too much realistic stuff from the Donald but at least he talks about the shit.

If there was no Trump the headlines would be dominated by the Stumble Bum lecturing us on how it is hateful to be uptight about some tranny using the same restroom as little girls or that it is a human right for an idiot to get a free college degree in French Literature.   Even worse we would have Shrill Hill babbling about a "war on women" when she has enabled her sexual predator husband for decades.      On the other side I think gay marriage and pot are pretty much dead but I'm sure Cruz would come up with some other axe to grind.

Hell I don't know.........   NC's primary is coming up next week - I need to figure this shit out soon.

[Inglorious Bitch]

Hell I don't know.........   NC's primary is coming up next week - I need to figure this shit out soon.

Just remember to vote for Trump. Don't worry about anything else. 

[SciFiAuthor]

What I never hear mentioned in the "debate" over immigration- even, and especially in this case, legal is the harm to those countries that are so precious. If talent, rich, honest, hard-working flee pick-your-country and move to the US or Europe etc who will this help settle down countries with poor economies, corruption, violence, etc? I understand that our policy views the open-border and VISA policy as a way to get cheaper labor and also as a "pressure-release valve" for the fallen countries but is this really the ideal scenario? Maybe we should be trying to make the people in those ruined, corrupt countries improve their lot instead of taking their talent, and their dregs, and then bailing them out or sending aide?

That's been a problem in a lot of places in the developing world, most notably India. It's called human capital flight or "brain drain" and it's the nasty little secret that pro-immigration people hate to address. When your doctors and nurses take off for first world nations, you get what we see in certain developing countries: plenty of international money to improve health conditions, but not enough personnel to implement it. This has impeded anti-Malaria and anti-AIDS efforts in Africa particularly, where the educated simply take off for the UK, Canada or the US as soon as they graduate.

[Value Of Pi]

The cost of maintaining a Wall (and, yes, have been there and seen it and now the remaining part) is prohibitive. We can use modern technology much more cheaply. Even traditional mines could be used but, for humanitarian reasons and because illegals and the cartels would map them I imagine we could develop "smart" mines that could be moved remotely or, in some cases be turned off- to protect animals. The only people, and not just Mexicans, who would be 'blown up' would be the criminals who still risk to cross. With proper signage and advertising most would avoid and so no "blowing up." Of course we could not stop all illegal immigration but put a good dent into it. The strong civil, and criminal, penalties of any one or entity or business or charity harboring, employing, or helping illegals is the more important part of the easy solution.

I'm not talking about the Berlin Wall, which only ran through Berlin. I'm talking about the entire length of the East German border being effectively closed due to a barbed wire fence (now gone), minefields and machine guns. Not expensive to build and very effective. Just hire some former East German guards as advisors (and some Serbs for morale training) and you should be happy as a clam.

These guys, with this hardware, can handle the cartels too. Humanitarian concerns? Pfft. Since when are you concerned about that? This is nothing compared to the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. And don't you think a bunch of body parts stacked up at the border would be a genuine deterrent?

[albrecht]

Since the only open borders we are talking about are ours, the argument of other countries having closed borders is silly. When the US starts to flood their borders we can discuss that.

Paying billions to defend those countries, are you aware of how many military bases we have in foreign countries, please, the cost in South America, as you said about the cost of rounding up illegals here, is chump change.

Things are going to cost a lot more than, "sure things can cost more". In many ways, I am ok with that, however.

The question of reform is a damned good one. I don't honestly know. I do know that isolating this country is not the way to do it.

As to dinner for someone, yeah it is expensive, I am ok with that, I don't want to have anyone go hungry.

We disagree and that is fine. Unlike the immigrants, and increasing a lot of our citizens, people resort to name-calling, crime, terrorism, etc instead of institutions and traditions and civil debate we have build up over the centuries. I will defend Western Civilization despite all the supposed 'evils' it gave the world, but each to their own. I don't appreciate the evils of the past, though admittedly by the numbers, some not all, of the complainers never had it better than when they were under English (not so much others) colonial rule and benefit from the vast amount of money and aide we send them (though in many cases it is mainly the leaders who do so.) The fact they, it seems everyone, wants to come to our most evil, sexist, capitalist, racist countries?

With regard to costs I don't mind paying more for better services and stable society, I even, to a point can appreciate the "socialist" countries in some regard; when balanced properly. But to work you need a good source of income due to natural resources, good tax policy, and cultural homogeneity and shared values because immigrants, gold-bricking, or corruption ruins it. (Norway, Netherlands, etc as example.) Or, in the less socialist aspect, like Switzerland, Singapore etc pay $$ for everything but low taxes and good service, clean community, and even jobs like waiters are 'real' jobs (go to a restaurant and have the same waiter for years) and immigration is severely controlled and based income or real skills.

[albrecht]

I'm not talking about the Berlin Wall, which only ran through Berlin. I'm talking about the entire length of the East German border being effectively closed due to a barbed wire fence (now gone), minefields and machine guns. Not expensive to build and very effective. Just hire some former East German guards as advisors (and some Serbs for morale training) and you should be happy as a clam.

These guys, with this hardware, can handle the cartels too. Humanitarian concerns? Pfft. Since when are you concerned about that? This is nothing compared to the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. And don't you think a bunch of body parts stacked up at the border would be a genuine deterrent?

I still like mines, since are cheaper and with modern technology could be even more effective but your ideas are growing on me. Since we gave Kosovo to the terrorists and there is displacement of people (can I call them refugees?) maybe we could import some Serbs and resettle them on the border and let them enforce it?
I also don't understand your implied view of our American friends to the south? Would they not read or respond? As I mention we would post and advertise the mine-fields- even with universally understood symbols, since many are illiterate even in their native languages. How could "walk here and you might blow up" not get through to them? They are, at least on some level, logical or have a sense of self-preservation.

[akwilly]

Odds for prez as of March 8th. Clinton-200. Trump+250. Cruz+1000. Sanders+1600. Kasich+2500. Rubio+3300. Romney+6600

updated odds March 9th. Clinton -200. Trump+200. Sanders+1200. Cruz+1200. Kasich+2500. Rubio+5000. Romney+6600.

[GravitySucks]

Little Marco has his own troubles with a failed university.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/03/09/marco-university-rubios-profit-education-scandal-bubbles-florida/

[Zoo]

Trump wins and that is the end!!1

[21st Century Man]

Well the McCain family is having to swallow a bitter pill.  Meghan McCain endorsed Cruz today.  Now the McCain family knows how many of us felt when we had to vote for the old POW back in '08.

[Lt.Uhura]

I still like mines, since are cheaper and with modern technology could be even more effective but your ideas are growing on me. Since we gave Kosovo to the terrorists and there is displacement of people (can I call them refugees?) maybe we could import some Serbs and resettle them on the border and let them enforce it?
I also don't understand your implied view of our American friends to the south? Would they not read or respond? As I mention we would post and advertise the mine-fields- even with universally understood symbols, since many are illiterate even in their native languages. How could "walk here and you might blow up" not get through to them? They are, at least on some level, logical or have a sense of self-preservation.

In the global, historical big picture, Trump's silly Wall and your sinister minefields are yet more examples of the continued pathetic and futile attempts to keep us separate and divided--and perpetually at war.  Borders, both physical and ideological, are fluid and subject to change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8OEuj6-pVg

[albrecht]

In the global, historical big picture, Trump's silly Wall and your sinister minefields are yet more examples of the continued pathetic and futile attempts to keep us separate and divided--and perpetually at war.  Borders, both physical and ideological, are fluid and subject to change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8OEuj6-pVg

I'm not sure why my smart mines are sinister, actually would be very humanitarian could actually, as seen in the DMZ in Korea, etc (which we spend money on) help wildlife and could be turned off to eliminate the damage the illegals are causing to fragile desert environs, and in cases to not kill animals or even people even- pending arrest and deportation (and be cheaper and help those countries by keeping labor, skills, even wealth at home.) But cool video and proves that borders matter! I wish it would've been done with more detail and missed out on a lot and, hopefully, the producers- maybe with a CFR or UN grant- would also detail prior movements since the nation-state (or both separately) is a new phenomena in humanity, really. Show us peons how we all "need to all get along" and have some international dictating body to manage us pesky peasants. Wonder how the video would look pre-nationality basis? Maybe Obama can succeed in his dream of Balkanization, sorry "fundamental transformation," and reduce the USA to some Goths, Celts, Huns, Picts, Mongols, etc, etc, take-your-pick, all fighting. I won't even mention our Native Americans, Africa, or the Orient because it becomes even more complex; and brutal- even to today. So that is what we want? Tribalism and internecine warfare? Just LCD for us because others have been exploited? Heh, guess what? WE, in the US, were a colony! And even white folks were enslaved and indentured (by other whites and especially Muslims throughout history and Muslim still do slave trade!)  White people, believe it or not, even in Europe had wars! Wow. Crazy. but true! Arguably those evil capitalist, communists, racists, and sexists that is Western Civilization have killed more of their own than others. Oh wait. I guess that's why. Got it. Open the borders, get rid of that evil vermin.

[Value Of Pi]

I still like mines, since are cheaper and with modern technology could be even more effective but your ideas are growing on me. Since we gave Kosovo to the terrorists and there is displacement of people (can I call them refugees?) maybe we could import some Serbs and resettle them on the border and let them enforce it?
I also don't understand your implied view of our American friends to the south? Would they not read or respond? As I mention we would post and advertise the mine-fields- even with universally understood symbols, since many are illiterate even in their native languages. How could "walk here and you might blow up" not get through to them? They are, at least on some level, logical or have a sense of self-preservation.

I think the border crossers would eventually get the message that we had done a bang-up job of laying these mines. Eventually, the word would get out that their chances of getting through in one piece were pretty poor.  But not because of any signage in any language or any verbal warnings.

It would take, as I said, a pile of body parts for the message to get through. That's because these people are either desperate or greedy, which tends to overwhelm whatever intelligence or sense of caution they have. So that's the price of your plan -- not just dollars and cents but lives. If you're okay with that, and all the resulting consequences, you might want to proceed.

[Lt.Uhura]

...

Assuming the Wall (or a minefield) is built within our lifetime, how long would it last?  Perhaps a generation at best, before inevitable political, social, environmental changes or upheaval brings it down?  Billions of dollars wasted on a partition constructed around the land of the free and the home of the brave, reflecting, ironically, neither freedom nor bravery.

We're each here for such a brief moment in time, and yet we arrogantly make far-reaching decisions as if we'll be around forever to control the outcome.

[The King of Kings]

Assuming the Wall (or a minefield) is built within our lifetime, how long would it last?  Perhaps a generation at best, before inevitable political, social, environmental changes or upheaval brings it down?  Billions of dollars wasted on a partition constructed around the land of the free and the home of the brave, reflecting, ironically, neither freedom nor bravery.

We're each here for such a brief moment in time, and yet we arrogantly make far-reaching decisions as if we'll be around forever to control the outcome.

It's a wall, not sure why you can't debate the merits without bringing hyperbole such as a "minefield" into the discussion.  I would think you don't have much of an argument.

The wall reinforces our already robust border patrol, check points, surveillance and existing barriers along the border, including fences and other obstacles.

The above measures have withheld political, social, and environmental changes. 

The wall only makes it tougher for illegal immigration into our country, which our government is steadfastly trying to stop.

There is nothing brave or free in allowing our sovereign borders to be violated by an unwanted mass of people who commit crimes to get in our country, commit crimes to stay in our country, and as numerous studies and reports have shown send most of the money back to Mexico.

Illegal immigration brings numerous social, health, and cultural problems to America.  Americans in these areas have seen their wages drop, standard of living drop and seeing their property taxes increase to pay for their integration.

Diseases that have been eradicated in America are suddenly popping up due to the illegal immigrants and their children never being immunized, which tada!, Americans have to pay for while their wages drop and standard of living drop.

So, who profits by all this cheap labor?  Average Americans? Nope.  The people who profit are the rich 1% who are looking to exploit this group and continue to exploit this group.

You argument is to literally make it easy for illegal immigrants to enter the USA so they can be exploited by rich business owners who pay them slave labor wages, because "muh freedom", "muh bravery".

It's neither brave or freedom promoting to allow marginalized minorities to continue to be exploited by rich business owners in America.

[onan]

It's a wall, not sure why you can't debate the merits without bringing hyperbole such as a "minefield" into the discussion.  I would think you don't have much of an argument.

The wall reinforces our already robust border patrol, check points, surveillance and existing barriers along the border, including fences and other obstacles.

The above measures have withheld political, social, and environmental changes. 

The wall only makes it tougher for illegal immigration into our country, which our government is steadfastly trying to stop.

There is nothing brave or free in allowing our sovereign borders to be violated by an unwanted mass of people who commit crimes to get in our country, commit crimes to stay in our country, and as numerous studies and reports have shown send most of the money back to Mexico.

Illegal immigration brings numerous social, health, and cultural problems to America.  Americans in these areas have seen their wages drop, standard of living drop and seeing their property taxes increase to pay for their integration.

Diseases that have been eradicated in America are suddenly popping up due to the illegal immigrants and their children never being immunized, which tada!, Americans have to pay for while their wages drop and standard of living drop.

So, who profits by all this cheap labor?  Average Americans? Nope.  The people who profit are the rich 1% who are looking to exploit this group and continue to exploit this group.

You argument is to literally make it easy for illegal immigrants to enter the USA so they can be exploited by rich business owners who pay them slave labor wages, because "muh freedom", "muh bravery".

It's neither brave or freedom promoting to allow marginalized minorities to continue to be exploited by rich business owners in America.

Obviously you don't read posts that are quoted. The hyperbole you speak of was introduced by another poster as, if I recall, an augment to a wall.

You are correct the people that exploit the labor of illegal aliens are the employers. But it isn't a surgically precise line, the "fruit" of low wage workers benefits your dining table as well as mine. Domestic tranquility is often quite subtle and sinister, but one has to look closely.

You are also correct that borders do stop the influx of people that are not vaccinated to diseases. However, if we as US citizens are vaccinated those threats are not a significant issue, unless one is an anti vaccination person, I call that a twofer.

However your suggestion that a border stops environmental changes... WTF?

Cultural changes, OK, by and large that isn't a problem, anywhere, except on Fox news. I have been watching this laughably called clash of cultures for more than four decades. I have yet to be impacted past the point of better choices of restaurants.

Until a month ago, I worked with many Muslims, never once did I see a burka (sp). Never, did I see a woman walking several feet behind her husband. Much to my dismay, I have never been invited to a stoning. With the right target... that would be fun (kidding, or am I?)

Simply put, what have you done to make the US specifically yours? As far as I can see, most people can only claim divine right. You know similar to being queen in England.

[The King of Kings]

Obviously you don't read posts that are quoted. The hyperbole you speak of was introduced by another poster as, if I recall, an augment to a wall.

You are correct the people that exploit the labor of illegal aliens are the employers. But it isn't a surgically precise line, the "fruit" of low wage workers benefits your dining table as well as mine. Domestic tranquility is often quite subtle and sinister, but one has to look closely.

You are also correct that borders do stop the influx of people that are not vaccinated to diseases. However, if we as US citizens are vaccinated those threats are not a significant issue, unless one is an anti vaccination person, I call that a twofer.

However your suggestion that a border stops environmental changes... WTF?

Cultural changes, OK, by and large that isn't a problem, anywhere, except on Fox news. I have been watching this laughably called clash of cultures for more than four decades. I have yet to be impacted past the point of better choices of restaurants.

Until a month ago, I worked with many Muslims, never once did I see a burka (sp). Never, did I see a woman walking several feet behind her husband. Much to my dismay, I have never been invited to a stoning. With the right target... that would be fun (kidding, or am I?)

Simply put, what have you done to make the US specifically yours? As far as I can see, most people can only claim divine right. You know similar to being queen in England.

Before I answer anything else you have written, please specifically point out where I suggest that a wall stops environmental changes.

If you can't reasonably comprehend what you are reading, or the points that other are trying to make, then it makes a conversation with you untenable.

[onan]

It's a wall, not sure why you can't debate the merits without bringing hyperbole such as a "minefield" into the discussion.  I would think you don't have much of an argument.

The wall reinforces our already robust border patrol, check points, surveillance and existing barriers along the border, including fences and other obstacles.

The above measures have withheld political, social, and environmental changes.

Yeah, I made a stretch. I guess you were talking grapefruit.

I guess comprehension doesn't cover your position about who posts about minefields in an attempt to disparage an argument.

[FightTheFuture]

Anybody that thinks Trump is going to build a wall and make  Mexico pay for it is not paying with a full deck. First of all, it`s a complete waste of money. Trump will N E V E R  get funding for it. 

Second, the only effective means of limiting illegal immigration is to penalize the business owners that hire them. Ted Cruz has advocated a very tough e-verify program that includes harsh penalties for those that exploit illegal labor.

Listen, I know a lot of business owners. Some use illegal labor; some don`t. I guarantee you, if you pass a law that puts business owners away for 5 years in prison and lifetime forfeiture of business license for hiring any illegal laborers, the illegal labor problem disappears forever!.

The whole "wall" thing is Trump appealing to low information voters that are angry. I understand the anger, I`m angry, too. But Trump? Please. What... Vince McMahan wasn`t available? The guy is a clown. He probably can`t quote  one constitutional amendment, much less tell you what the hell it means!

World leaders are concerned. VERY concerned. Folks, that`s not a good thing. The world needs stability. Trump offends our allies and emboldens our enemies. Putin loves Trump and endorses him. Why ya reckon?? Because he knows Trump is an idiot.

[FightTheFuture]

Carly Fiorina endorses Cruz. Good pick-up! I`ve been a Carly donor  and supporter since the beginning.

[Richard Groyper]

Carly? She ran HP into the ground.

[albrecht]

Obviously you don't read posts that are quoted. The hyperbole you speak of was introduced by another poster as, if I recall, an augment to a wall.

You are correct the people that exploit the labor of illegal aliens are the employers. But it isn't a surgically precise line, the "fruit" of low wage workers benefits your dining table as well as mine. Domestic tranquility is often quite subtle and sinister, but one has to look closely.

You are also correct that borders do stop the influx of people that are not vaccinated to diseases. However, if we as US citizens are vaccinated those threats are not a significant issue, unless one is an anti vaccination person, I call that a twofer.

However your suggestion that a border stops environmental changes... WTF?

Cultural changes, OK, by and large that isn't a problem, anywhere, except on Fox news. I have been watching this laughably called clash of cultures for more than four decades. I have yet to be impacted past the point of better choices of restaurants.

Until a month ago, I worked with many Muslims, never once did I see a burka (sp). Never, did I see a woman walking several feet behind her husband. Much to my dismay, I have never been invited to a stoning. With the right target... that would be fun (kidding, or am I?)

Simply put, what have you done to make the US specifically yours? As far as I can see, most people can only claim divine right. You know similar to being queen in England.

Just one small example: under the current vaccination schedule suggested by the US government, like the CDC, does not include vaccinations for things like TB* (which illegals have been shown to have on occasion.) And illegals, by their nature, are not checked to see if they have criminal backgrounds, cartel connections, terrorist ties, or are diseased. It is crazy to want an open-border, unless there is some weird motive to try to destroy the country or simply so some employers can get some cheap labor or you can get a cheaper nanny or house cleaner or lawn service. Socializing the costs and privatizing the profits. Draining those countries, even in the case of legal immigration, of capital, talent, honest people, and hard-workers also help destabilize those countries even more.
* https://npin.cdc.gov/publication/tb-elimination-bcg-vaccine