Aviation Thread - News, facts, questions, photos, videos, etc.

[Walks_At_Night]

F-16 down in the U.P.   

https://prosportsextra.com/developing-story-possible-plane-crash-happened-in-upper-peninsula/

Edit:
About half way between Munising and Manistique:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/46%C2%B004'52.5%22N+86%C2%B033'14.1%22W/@46.0812599,-87.1120429,9z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d46.0812599!4d-86.5539288
In other words in the middle of nowhere.......

Edit Edit:
Scanner stream:
https://www.broadcastify.com/webPlayer/23343

Edit Edit Edit:
FAA has made the area a no fly zone:
https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_1887.html

Edit Edit Edit Edit:
Internet saying it went up against a UFO. I guess it lost. 

[Walks_At_Night]

Sounds like the pilot punched out. Air Force told the coppers the ejection took place about 5 miles away. P.D. headed that way and they've been warned that the seat might have ordinance.

[Walks_At_Night]

Definitely odd.  Still haven't found the pilot yet. Internet is a buzz, like this guy:

Ok guys, Air Force vet here, Crew Chief and BSART member... This is all VERY bizzare... If it really was a jet that went down, the ejection seat has multiple transponders and radio beacons on it so the air force knows exactly where he is.. it has been hours and they haven't even sent a helo??? F-16 doing a training mission with live munitions all alone with no wingman? Air force not allowing the local police to search for pilot when he ejected 5 miles from where the jet crashed (clearly not within blast radius of munitions)? Something is not right. I don't care how remote the area, it shouldn't take this long. I don't believe in ayys so it was most likely USAP related craft.

[Walks_At_Night]

Air Force is sending a "Special Classification Officer" to the scene. What is that?

[Jackstar]

Air Force is sending a "Special Classification Officer" to the scene. What is that?

My old job.

[Walks_At_Night]

Well sounds like they are gonna leave the poor bastard freeze in the snow all night and won't look at the ejection site until daylight. I can see staying away from the crash site if the bird had live ordinance on it but they said the ejection site is 5 miles SSW of the crash. Very odd.

[Taaroa]

https://youtu.be/nTOz93h4eQ8

[Uncle Duke]

Definitely odd.  Still haven't found the pilot yet. Internet is a buzz, like this guy:

The seat has a personal locater beacon (PLB) that activates at seat/man separation if set in the automatic mode. That is SOP in non-warzone flying.  The pilot may also have a survival radio if wearing a survival vest, not usually worn in non-combat flying.  A cellphone is more reliable than the radio anyway.

As investigators we had a post-ejection checklist for the seat to make sure everything functioned as designed and all the energetics fired.  A seat with unfired energetics can be deadly if mishandled.

F-16s use a hydrazine driven emergency power unit (EPU) that can be a nasty piece of business after a crash.  Although it's possible the a/c carried live ordinance, keeping people away from the hydrazine is probably the primary concern.

Sounds like the pilot did not survive, or at least may have been too injured to effect his/her own recovery/rescue.  The seat mounted kit is chock full of flares and other signaling equipment, so those would have been used is the pilot was capable of doing so.  If he/she survived, however, the survival kit carried in winter would be more than enough to sustain him/her for a night in even the coldest weather.

[Walks_At_Night]

The seat has a personal locater beacon (PLB) that activates at seat/man separation if set in the automatic mode. That is SOP in non-warzone flying.  The pilot may also have a survival radio if wearing a survival vest, not usually worn in non-combat flying.  A cellphone is more reliable than the radio anyway.

As investigators we had a post-ejection checklist for the seat to make sure everything functioned as designed and all the energetics fired.  A seat with unfired energetics can be deadly if mishandled.

F-16s use a hydrazine driven emergency power unit (EPU) that can be a nasty piece of business after a crash.  Although it's possible the a/c carried live ordinance, keeping people away from the hydrazine is probably the primary concern.

Sounds like the pilot did not survive, or at least may have been too injured to effect his/her own recovery/rescue.  The seat mounted kit is chock full of flares and other signaling equipment, so those would have been used is the pilot was capable of doing do.  If he/she survived, however, the survival kit carried in winter would be more than enough to sustain him/her for a night in even the coldest weather.

Still no pilot this morning. From what I heard on the scanner, the Coast Guard has a Helo out of USCG Air Station Traverse City on site now. That is bound to help. Regarding cell service, last night they has said Verizon was sending some sort of temporary emergency tower up from Gary, IN but that's a long haul up to the UP. That part of the UP is full of lakes, ponds, bogs and marshes. The seat might have ended up in the drink. 



Most of the talk on the scanner this morning is in regards to the search for a drunk that stabbed a guy. So I'm guessing more non-law enforcement assets are on site searching now.

[Uncle Duke]

Still no pilot this morning. From what I heard on the scanner, the Coast Guard has a Helo out of USCG Air Station Traverse City on site now. That is bound to help. Regarding cell service, last night they has said Verizon was sending some sort of temporary emergency tower up from Gary, IN but that's a long haul up to the UP. That part of the UP is full of lakes, ponds, bogs and marshes. The seat might have ended up in the drink. 



Most of the talk on the scanner this morning is in regards to the search for a drunk that stabbed a guy. So I'm guessing more non-law enforcement assets are on site searching now.

If the pilot landed in water, he/she has both an automatically deployed life preserver and raft.  Broken or dislocated limbs, either not uncommon in high speed ejections, can make it difficult for the pilot to get into the raft, however.  Cold and wet is a poor survival scenario, hypothermia can set in fairly quickly.  In those situations you can lose your ability to function/think some time before you actually die.

[Hog]

The last Viper driver to punch hit the group during a Mode 1 ejection didnt make it.  Seat maintenance was deferred due to parts shortages. 6 of 7 pyros failed to activate.1st Lt David "MEZr" Schmitz was killed June 2020.


Its not like the Viper and its ACES seat are rare items with over 5,000 copies of the seat in service..

peace
Hog

[Uncle Duke]

The last Viper driver to punch hit the group during a Mode 1 ejection didnt make it.  Seat maintenance was deferred due to parts shortages. 6 of 7 pyros failed to activate.1st Lt David "MEZr" Schmitz was killed June 2020.


Its not like the Viper and its ACES seat are rare items with over 5,000 copies of the seat in service..

peace
Hog

I've been in those meetings where safety v. readiness is debated.  It often winds up with statistics indicating the chances of the perfect storm scenario where an aircraft and/or aircrew is lost are so low it's deemed an acceptable risk. The safety guys vote to ground the a/c, the ops guys vote to fly. 

[Hog]

That AN-124 that overran the runway was towed back onto the runway.

https://youtu.be/-N9JMEOg7Bk

peace
Hog

[Hog]

A bunch of good stuff involving the AN-124 emergency landing.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4df212c7&opt=0

peace
Hog

[Walks_At_Night]

Still no F-16 pilot found but there is a 'yuge crater'

https://vocaroo.com/15JzsaskDgUv

[Uncle Duke]

Still no F-16 pilot found but there is a 'yuge crater'

https://vocaroo.com/15JzsaskDgUv

Everything I've seen says the pilot ejected, but very odd he/she hasn't been found almost 18 hrs later.  I assume the ejection supposition was based on the pilot radioing the intent to eject and/or the activation of PLB.  The PLB stays with the pilot and should continue to transmit until the battery dies, it's switched off, or it is damaged.  I don't remember how long the battery is good for, but I know the PLB does not last long in the water.  There is also the possibility the pilot didn't eject, PLBs have been know to activate still in the a/c at ground impact.  The signal usually doesn't last long in that case. 

[Walks_At_Night]

Everything I've seen says the pilot ejected, but very odd he/she hasn't been found almost 18 hrs later.  I assume the ejection supposition was based on the pilot radioing the intent to eject and/or the activation of PLB.  The PLB stays with the pilot and should continue to transmit until the battery dies, it's switched off, or it is damaged.  I don't remember how long the battery is good for, but I know the PLB does not last long in the water.  There is also the possibility the pilot didn't eject, PLBs have been know to activate still in the a/c at ground impact.  The signal usually doesn't last long in that case.

I can't imagine that it looks good for the pilot being in good shape at this point. Most definitely a weird one. From time to time a snowmobiler will go missing up there and it may take some time to find them but they don't have all that high tech "Here I am! Save me!" gizmo's. 

[albrecht]

I can't imagine that it looks good for the pilot being in good shape at this point. Most definitely a weird one. From time to time a snowmobiler will go missing up there and it may take some time to find them but they don't all that high tech "Here I am! Save me!" gizmo's.

Hoping it turns out ok but not looking good. Maybe he was found and is being held by one of those militias up there? Or was rescued and recuperating at some grizzled trapper's camp under animal skins while the trapper has to ski or snowshoe out to alert the authorities and get him more help.

ps: I'm always amazed that folks on BG seem to get 'breaking news' prior to the MSMs!

[Walks_At_Night]

Hoping it turns out ok but not looking good. Maybe he was found and is being held by one of those militias up there? Or was rescued and recuperating at some grizzled trapper's camp under animal skins while the trapper has to ski or snowshoe out to alert the authorities and get him more help.

ps: I'm always amazed that folks on BG seem to get 'breaking news' prior to the MSMs!

Best clip from the scanner audio of the incident is here:

https://vocaroo.com/1lJHRTAt0A2P

Copper caught his hand in the car door.

[albrecht]

Best clip from the scanner audio of the incident is here:

https://vocaroo.com/1lJHRTAt0A2P

Copper caught his hand in the car door.

Ouch, that hurts. See, what I mean? That MSM doesn't report in such detail. I think you broke the story before I saw it in the online 'papers.'  I wonder what the recluses, militias, poachers, and preppers are thinking with all these guvmint agents and vehicles flying and driving around up there?

[Walks_At_Night]

Ouch, that hurts. See, what I mean? That MSM doesn't report in such detail. I think you broke the story before I saw it in the online 'papers.'  I wonder what the recluses, militias, poachers, and preppers are thinking with all these guvmint agents and vehicles flying and driving around up there?

Well a Copper on the scanner radio just said that the "115th isn't on scene yet and that they had very limited man power on hand".  The 115th is the fighter wing that owned the bird. WTF? This whole time it's just been some Yooper cops poking around in the woods a bit? 

[Walks_At_Night]

Well it seems like Alpena Search and Rescue is on scene now

[albrecht]

Well a Copper on the scanner radio just said that the "115th isn't on scene yet and that they had very limited man power on hand".  The 115th is the fighter wing that owned the bird. WTF? This whole time it's just been some Yooper cops poking around in the woods a bit?

I think some Coast Guard choppers have been used. Weird that they wouldn't send some planes from 115th in Madison to check things out. I would think they would be one of the first on scene. I doubt there is some jurisdictional issue between Wisconsin and Michigan since they were already doing maneuvers over Michigan when it went down, and I'm sure they are approved.

[albrecht]

Well it seems like Alpena Search and Rescue is on scene now

Get them some transportation because them woods pretty big and those folks don't look up for a long hike!

[Uncle Duke]

Well a Copper on the scanner radio just said that the "115th isn't on scene yet and that they had very limited man power on hand".  The 115th is the fighter wing that owned the bird. WTF? This whole time it's just been some Yooper cops poking around in the woods a bit?

It's not customary for the mishap unit to take part in search and rescue unless the mishap occurred at their base, they are the closest military unit with search and rescue capabilities, or they are specifically requested.   The mishap unit is represented on the mishap investigation board, however. 

[Walks_At_Night]

I think some Coast Guard choppers have been used. Weird that they wouldn't send some planes from 115th in Madison to check things out. I would think they would be one of the first on scene. I doubt there is some jurisdictional issue between Wisconsin and Michigan since they were already doing maneuvers over Michigan when it went down, and I'm sure they are approved.

Flight tracker showed a KC-135 out of Selfridge ANG in Michigan doing donuts in the sky near the crash site so *someone* was getting some avgas up there.

[Walks_At_Night]

It's not customary for the mishap unit to take part in search and rescue unless the mishap occurred at their base, they are the closest military unit with search and rescue capabilities, or they are specifically requested.   The mishap unit is represented on the mishap investigation board, however.

Ah. That makes good sense.

[Uncle Duke]

Flight tracker showed a KC-135 out of Selfridge ANG in Michigan doing donuts in the sky near the crash site so *someone* was getting some avgas up there.

Or the 135 was designated as on-scene commander to coordinate aerial search efforts. It's common to select an on scene commander with as much airborne endurance as possible.

[Uncle Duke]

Hoping it turns out ok but not looking good. Maybe he was found and is being held by one of those militias up there? Or was rescued and recuperating at some grizzled trapper's camp under animal skins while the trapper has to ski or snowshoe out to alert the authorities and get him more help.

I hope Kathy Bates didn't find him.

[albrecht]

I hope Kathy Bates didn't find him.

Yes, indeed. Not that we're making light of the situation, hopefully it turns out ok for him but doesn't look good. They aren't releasing name or details yet though I imagine that is out there but it always amazes me how expensive a/c are and the age of some flying them. And folks worrying about letting their kid take out the family car. I know they are highly trained but still.