Topic: Aviation Thread - News, facts, questions, photos, videos, etc.

[albrecht]

https://qz.com/1776080/how-the-mcdonnell-douglas-boeing-merger-led-to-the-737-max-crisis/ 

One certain can identify some political vibes from the article but maybe true to an extent?

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/beyond-the-macho-pilot-trash-talk-737-max-documents-reveal-how-intensely-boeing-focused-on-cost/

https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-muilenburg-payout-same-time-thousands-layoffs-2020-1

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-01-10/-designed-by-clowns-and-supervised-by-monkeys-the-737-max-story   

[Hog]

Just a cool pic of a low flying YF-12A.  The version of the A-12 that carried 3 AIM-47 missiles.  3 were built, but the program was cancelled and McNamara in an effort to ensure the program wouldnt come back, ordered the tooling destroyed as well.
Notice the nose without chines so the AN/ASG-18 Fire Control System could work.  As a consequence of deleting the chines on teh nose Lockheed felt that to maintain directional stability, that a ventral fin be fitted under each engine nacelle and a 3rd much larger ventral fin that folded down once the landing gear was raised.

Apparently the YF-12a at 75,000 feet hit a drone at 500 feet with an AIM-47 Falcon missile.  The missile just didnt come close enough for a proximity kill, the Falcon actually scored a kinetic hit on the drone aircraft.  Look down, shoot down was still in its infancy in these days.
Some of this stuff, like the AWG-9, went on to be used in the F-14 Tomcat after its short usage in the F-111B.



and here folded


peace
Hog

[Taaroa]

T-38 Talon heritage plane on Dec. 10, 2019. The plane was designed to honor past visionaries and link current training to the 25th FTS flying heritage.

https://youtu.be/5TTaYlYm5dA

[Walks_At_Night]

Nice to see the old traditional colors!

[Taaroa]

Nice to see the old traditional colors!

I think it's more based on these:





Training aircraft and colours?

[Taaroa]

I have seen images of the #Israeli jets impacted by the flash flood that have hit the country few days ago but, have you seen this one ? pic.twitter.com/WoLA8Stnsf

— 🇮🇱 Samuel Cardillo (@ElDomaine) January 13, 2020

[Uncle Duke]

I think it's more based on these:





Training aircraft and colours?

Back years ago when I (very poorly) built scale plastic aircraft models, I read a book on the history of US military aircraft color schemes.  Between the world wars, the colorful schemes were largely to draw the public's attention to military aviation at a time when the Army and Navy were fighting tooth and nail for appropriations for their flight programs.  Trainers in particular were painted in high visibility scheme to facilitate them being seen around busy training bases where there could be dozens of aircraft in the air/pattern at any one time.

IIRC, the name of the book was "Flying Colors" or something similar.

[Taaroa]

Delta plane dumps jet fuel over US schools in emergency landing causing minor injuries to 40

Fuel dumping is a process used in certain emergency situations to reduce the weight of the airplane but according to aviation rules, nearby facilities need to be warned by air traffic controllers
[...]

"I'm very upset. This is an elementary school, these are small children," Elizabeth Alcantar, the mayor of Cudahy, told the Los Angeles Times.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/aeroplane-dumps-fuel-over-schools-in-emergency-landing/11869050

 

People acting like they deliberately targeted a school, or that the fuel hadn't vaporised long before reaching them. Would they rather everyone on the plane burn to death in a post emergency landing fire or put people at increased risk from an overweight landing?
Also I've never heard of the "nearby facilities need to be warned by air traffic controllers" thing - ATC has much more important things to worry about, and if there's an emergency you're going to dump the fuel wherever and whenever it's needed.
The plane doesn't even look particularly low in the video...

[Uncle Duke]

Delta plane dumps jet fuel over US schools in emergency landing causing minor injuries to 40
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-15/aeroplane-dumps-fuel-over-schools-in-emergency-landing/11869050

 

People acting like they deliberately targeted a school, or that the fuel hadn't vaporised long before reaching them. Would they rather everyone on the plane burn to death in a post emergency landing fire or put people at increased risk from an overweight landing?
Also I've never heard of the "nearby facilities need to be warned by air traffic controllers" thing - ATC has much more important things to worry about, and if there's an emergency you're going to dump the fuel wherever and whenever it's needed.
The plane doesn't even look particularly low in the video...

BBC News - Plane dumps fuel over schools near Los Angeles airport
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51112630

If you look at the flight path diagram (from Flightradar24 in the BBC article) it appears they made the decision to dump fuel relatively late in the process of getting back to LAX.  They were still dumping fuel about ten miles east of the airport, couldn't have been too high at that point .  Wonder why they didn't jettison fuel out over the water, looks like they were maybe twenty miles feet wet before heading back.  It would be interesting to know the time between realizing they had a problem and touch down back at LAX, as well as the nature of the "engine issue."  Bird ingestion, perhaps?  The crew may have gotten boxed into a situation that was bad, and possibly getting worse, and had to make the best of it.

Also surprised the media hasn't scared up a passenger or two from the flight to get their take from inside the a/c.

[Taaroa]

BBC News - Plane dumps fuel over schools near Los Angeles airport
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51112630

If you look at the flight path diagram (from Flightradar24 in the BBC article) it appears they made the decision to dump fuel relatively late in the process of getting back to LAX.  They were still dumping fuel about ten miles east of the airport, couldn't have been too high at that point .  Wonder why they didn't jettison fuel out over the water, looks like they were maybe twenty miles feet wet before heading back.  It would be interesting to know the time between realizing they had a problem and touch down back at LAX, as well as the nature of the "engine issue."  Bird ingestion, perhaps?  The crew may have gotten boxed into a situation that was bad, and possibly getting worse, and had to make the best of it.

Also surprised the media hasn't scared up a passenger or two from the flight to get their take from inside the a/c.

Maybe they could've but they probably had more pressing matters like checklists - and really I can't fault them for doing what they thought was right in an emergency. Apparently 777s can land overweight and mightn't have needed any fuel dumping, but still. This one has their altitude included with the flight path:



https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/delta-777-dumps-fuel-on-school-during-emergency-return-to-lax/

From what I remember reading regarding dumping in an ideal situation, you're meant to do it over water and iirc >5000ft (with deliberately increased drag to help lighten the load quicker). For example when Emirates an A340 hit a localiser on takeoff in Melbourne years ago, they did holds over the bay until they were light enough to land again.

[Uncle Duke]

Maybe they could've but they probably had more pressing matters like checklists - and really I can't fault them for doing what they thought was right in an emergency. Apparently 777s can land overweight and mightn't have needed any fuel dumping, but still. This one has their altitude included with the flight path:



https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/delta-777-dumps-fuel-on-school-during-emergency-return-to-lax/

From what I remember reading regarding dumping in an ideal situation, you're meant to do it over water and iirc >5000ft (with deliberately increased drag to help lighten the load quicker). For example when Emirates an A340 hit a localiser on takeoff in Melbourne years ago, they did holds over the bay until they were light enough to land again.

If I'm reading the airspeed/altitude v. time chart correctly, they were in the air about 25 minutes (19:32 to 19:57) and attained a max altitude of 7775 feet.  That would mean they were still climbing out and over the water for no more than a few minutes. 

I was on an a/c out of LAX (heading east) where about 30 minutes after takeoff, a passenger suffered a heart attack.  I don't remember where we touched down, maybe SLC, but we did dump fuel before landing.  Pretty impressive sight seeing the fuel being dispersed while looking out the window.

[Hog]

The Aussie's light the fuel as they dump it overboard.  Less toxic lol.  Cool looking demo.

https://youtu.be/IGAT_j8hP2M?t=654

peace
Hog

[Walks_At_Night]

The Aussie's light the fuel as they dump it overboard.  Less toxic lol.  Cool looking demo.

https://youtu.be/IGAT_j8hP2M?t=654

peace
Hog

Jesus Hog - cool yes but the little old ladies on the Quantas bound for  Adelaide might get a tad worked up with that squirting out of an Airbus.

[Taaroa]

This Massive Desert Base Is China's Version Of America's Nellis Air Force Base
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/31824/this-massive-desert-base-is-chinas-version-of-americas-nellis-air-force-base

[Kidnostad3]

This Massive Desert Base Is China's Version Of America's Nellis Air Force Base
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/31824/this-massive-desert-base-is-chinas-version-of-americas-nellis-air-force-base

The imagery, detail and language of this article make it clear that it is based on a media drop by the PRC and it should be read with that in mind. 

[Hog]

Jesus Hog - cool yes but the little old ladies on the Quantas bound for  Adelaide might get a tad worked up with that squirting out of an Airbus.

I'd bet they would(laugh).  Just imagine the flames you could get from the Airbus.  No afterburners/reheat/augmentation to get the fuel lit though.

And what's with the crying kids? Childrens reactions are 95% guided by the adults reaction is situations.  If the adults get all worked up, guess what?  the kids will get agitated as well.

Run the kids under a shower and remove them to fresh air, they'll be fine.

I remember bending over and holding my head over a paint tray as my Mother poured gasoline from a Jerry can over my head while my grandfather "agitated" my hair with his hands.  Mom was in a good mood that day and she didnt even threaten to "Flick her Bic."
Anyhoo the paint was removed from my hair and some 35 years later, ABSOLUTELY ZERO side effects have been noted.  Well other than my Bellgab addiction.

peace
Hog

[Walks_At_Night]

So this doesn't look good.   No Canaries today for these folks.

https://www.flightradar24.com/EXS57JW/2390e7c6

[Uncle Duke]

So this doesn't look good.   No Canaries today for these folks.

https://www.flightradar24.com/EXS57JW/2390e7c6

That is odd.  Assuming it's going back to Manchester, there might be an article in a Manchester newspaper tomorrow explaining what happened.

[SredniVashtar]

Here's a couple of pics I took recently, one of a Spitfire, the other a Harrier. From the Imperial War Museum.

[Walks_At_Night]

Here's a couple of pics I took recently, one of a Spitfire, the other a Harrier. From the Imperial War Museum.

That would be a wonderful place to visit.  Hope to make it one of these years..........

[Walks_At_Night]

That is odd.  Assuming it's going back to Manchester, there might be an article in a Manchester newspaper tomorrow explaining what happened.

Looks like they got back to Manchester ok.   Poor buggers.  No fun in the sun.

[SredniVashtar]

Here's a couple of pics I took recently, one of a Spitfire, the other a Harrier. From the Imperial War Museum.

It's been a long time since I last went there, they seem to have a lot more now, including a WW1 exhibition. Here's a few more pics including a Sherman and T-34 tank, a Monty picture (with some sand from Alamein behind it) and something knitted by the mother of one of the soldiers from D-Day. They liked it so much they hung it on a tank. I noticed lots of schoolkids having pictures taken with it.

[Taaroa]

Teachers Sue Airline Over Jet Fuel Dumping

The four teachers are now seeking unspecified damages over the incident.
"The plaintiffs could feel the fuel on their clothes, their flesh, their eyes and their skin," a lawyer for the teachers said, adding that the fuel "penetrated their mouths and noses as well, producing a lasting and severe irritation".
Delta has already been cited by the South Coast Air Quality Management District for a violation. The agency characterised the fuel dump as a public nuisance.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51162248

That would be a wonderful place to visit.  Hope to make it one of these years..........

It was only okay when I went there after their recent renovations. The Imperial War Museum Duxford (near Cambridge) is much better.

Flying boats can also do BIG too!
The wonderful Convair R-3 Y2 Tradewind from the 1950's, was a transport flying boat, designed to cross oceans, with both troops and vehicles. Six were converted to tankers and one was the first to refuel four aircraft simultaneously, in 1956. pic.twitter.com/hoO487im0r

— Trev Clark 🚁🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 (@TrevClark1958) January 17, 2020

[Taaroa]

https://youtu.be/YE6QpHPEbdA

[Taaroa]

April 1944. Flame-throwing from the air. 😮 #WW2 #HISTORY pic.twitter.com/JorCmhwBdT

— RG Poulussen (@rgpoulussen) January 19, 2020

Sometimes it is difficult to explain in the accident damage report. pic.twitter.com/KnU6BltbvK

— RDV69 (@RDV69) January 18, 2020

[Uncle Duke]

April 1944. Flame-throwing from the air. 😮 #WW2 #HISTORY pic.twitter.com/JorCmhwBdT

— RG Poulussen (@rgpoulussen) January 19, 2020

That was one of the anti-invasion beach defenses the Brits were developing in preparation of the Germans invading.  They also were planning to use poison gas

[Taaroa]

https://youtu.be/4AubU5FeUIs


Posting this so I can watch it when I have time:

The Only Man Who Flew Both The F-22 And The YF-23 On Why The YF-23 Lost
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27309/the-only-man-who-flew-both-the-f-22-and-the-yf-23-on-why-the-yf-23-lost