30th anniversary of STS-51L Challenger disaster

[Hog]

Its been 30 years already.

The Challenger mishap really made us averse to adverse space travel.
Jan 30th is NASA's official day of remembrance for Apoll0-1, Challenger and STS-107 Columbia and the other NASA space workers who died.
RIP

peace
Hog

[Jackstar]

Its been 30 years already.

https://youtu.be/OcMbJVR6uXY

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

https://youtu.be/OcMbJVR6uXY

O rings the humanity!

[whoozit]

I stopped by Christa McAuliffe's grave today.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

The disaster most likely wouldn't have happened had Ronald Reagan's political handlers insisted that the launch take place the day of the State of the Union speech, which had been meticulously crafted to give the Challenger prominent mention.  NASA administrators wanted to delay the launch because of concerns that the cold weather could cause a malfunction, but were overruled by the White House.  The rest is history, and as a result, the SotU speech was canceled, supposedly out of respect for the dead, but actually because "The Great Communicator" didn't have the ability to rise to the occasion and find appropriate inspirational words for addressing the tragedy on short notice.  The State of the Union was delayed for several days so a new one could be written for him. 

Some people may recall that there were televised hearings to discuss the findings of a distinguished panel of scientists who had been engaged to investigate the cause of the explosion.  Eminent physicist, Richard Feynman, was the star of the show with his testimony and his demonstration showing how the o rings became brittle in cold temperatures by dunking one in a bowl of ice water. 

[GravitySucks]

Several previous missions had troubles with the o-rings. If they had listen to this guy 6 months before, (and the day before the launch, and the day of the launch) it probably wouldnt have happened. That being said, launches are dangerous.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Boisjoly

[GravitySucks]

The disaster most likely wouldn't have happened had Ronald Reagan's political handlers insisted that the launch take place the day of the State of the Union speech, which had been meticulously crafted to give the Challenger prominent mention.  NASA administrators wanted to delay the launch because of concerns that the cold weather could cause a malfunction, but were overruled by the White House.  The rest is history, and as a result, the SotU speech was canceled, supposedly out of respect for the dead, but actually because "The Great Communicator" didn't have the ability to rise to the occasion and find appropriate inspirational words for addressing the tragedy on short notice.  The State of the Union was delayed for several days so a new one could be written for him. 

Some people may recall that there were televised hearings to discuss the findings of a distinguished panel of scientists who had been engaged to investigate the cause of the explosion.  Eminent physicist, Richard Feynman, was the star of the show with his testimony and his demonstration showing how the o rings became brittle in cold temperatures by dunking one in a bowl of ice water.

I have no clue what you have against Reagan, but this is the speech that he gave on the evening of January 28th. It is considered by many to be his best speech.

http://youtu.be/Qa7icmqgsow

[ShayP]

Wow. 30 years already. It was my sophomore year of high school. I remember watching the launch live on television. Shocking and sad to say the least. That is one of the tragedies I can recall vividly as if it were yesterday.

[Uncle Duke]

My boss supported the Challenger investigation committee.  I never heard the audio, but did see a partial transcript of the crew's conversations from explosion to water impact.  No panic, they reverted to their training but initially misunderstood the nature of the mishap. At impact, at least a couple of them were reciting the Lord's Prayer. I went home that night and got very drunk. 

[chefist]

My boss supported the Challenger investigation committee.  I never heard the audio, but did see a partial transcript of the crew's conversations from explosion to water impact.  No panic, they reverted to their training but initially misunderstood the nature of the mishap. At impact, at least a couple of them were reciting the Lord's Prayer. I went home that night and got very drunk.

Wow, I had no idea they survived after the explosion...

[Uncle Duke]

Wow, I had no idea they survived after the explosion...

Yeah.  The crew compartment was, in effect, a pressure vessel that remained intact.  There are videos that show the intact crew compartment being blown clear.

[FearBoysWithBugs]

Yeah.  The crew compartment was, in effect, a pressure vessel that remained intact.  There are videos that show the intact crew compartment being blown clear.

That's true, and there seems to be evidence that some of the crew survived the explosion and were conscious, but any transcription of a conversation they might have had is bullshit.

[albrecht]

My boss supported the Challenger investigation committee.  I never heard the audio, but did see a partial transcript of the crew's conversations from explosion to water impact.  No panic, they reverted to their training but initially misunderstood the nature of the mishap. At impact, at least a couple of them were reciting the Lord's Prayer. I went home that night and got very drunk.

Wow, I did not hear that. In a way, I'm glad they didn't tell us this. It was sad enough as it was. This reminds of those intercepted by forces (and I thought I recall HAMS or SW etc amateurs capturing- by I could be wrong) of the earlier Soviet Cosmonaut(s) that blew up or upon reentry.

[Uncle Duke]

Wow, I did not hear that. In a way, I'm glad they didn't tell us this. It was sad enough as it was. This reminds of those intercepted by forces (and I thought I recall HAMS or SW etc amateurs capturing- by I could be wrong) of the earlier Soviet Cosmonaut(s) that blew up or upon reentry.

A couple years after the mishap, one of the Florida newspapers, I think the "Miami Herald" did a feature investigative story on the what happened to the crew.  From what I remember, they got the story about 80% right.  It was a real black eye for NASA, they had wanted the public to think the crew had perished in the explosion.  The same article also related some disturbing details about the recovery of the crew remains and their transport back to Patrick AFB.  Don't know if those stories were true, but it would not have surprised me.

[GravitySucks]

Wow, I did not hear that. In a way, I'm glad they didn't tell us this. It was sad enough as it was. This reminds of those intercepted by forces (and I thought I recall HAMS or SW etc amateurs capturing- by I could be wrong) of the earlier Soviet Cosmonaut(s) that blew up or upon reentry.

The crew capsule lost all power during the break up. There were no communications. The capsule did not disintegrate but did rupture. I worked at JSC in Houston beginning with STS-4.

Out of respect for the families, I will not talk about it other than to say there was no such transcript. I've seen all of the reports and was involved in all of the return-to-flight modifications.

Over the years I have heard hundreds of people tell me that they saw it on "live television". In 1986, very few people had cable tv. It was not broadcast live on ANY OTA station, not even in Houston. The only channels to carry it live were CNN and NASA Select. So if you didn't have cable, you didn't see it live.

There was no political pressure to launch on the day of the state of the Union as was stated by a previous post. There WAS schedule pressure. STS-51L was supposed to launch in FY 85 and was delayed for numerous reasons. Two other flights, STS 61B (Nov 85) and 61A (Jan 86) were launched before they could get Challenger and its payload which was primarily an IUS/TDRS scheduled for launch. The schedule pressure was to get the IUS/TDRS on orbit and to get Challenger ready again.

The real tragedy was that a Thiokol engineer was fighting a losing battle for 6 months trying to get the issue with the o-rings addressed. I posted a link to his wiki entry above. It was truly an accident waiting to happen. There had been several primary o-rimg failures and at least one partial secondary o-ring failure. That man risked his career during the days leading up to launch trying to get them to stop it. He was unable to convince the powers that be.

Politics had nothing to do with it as far as the State of the Union.

This brings up very emotional memories for me because I lost several people I had worked with that day. I wasn't going to post this at all, but I had to set the record straight. Believe me or don't. I lived it.

These are tough days for NASA, especially in the communities around JSC.  the Apollo 1 fire, Challenger and Columbia anniversaries are 1/29, 1/28 and 2/1. I was not involved in Apollo, but I was for the Challenger and Columbia accidents, and my heart still aches.

[Uncle Duke]

The crew capsule lost all power during the break up. There were no communications. The capsule did not disintegrate but did rupture. I worked at JSC in Houston beginning with STS-4.

Out of respect for the families, I will not talk about it other than to say there was no such transcript. I've seen all of the reports and was involved in all of the return-to-flight modifications.

Over the years I have heard hundreds of people tell me that they saw it on "live television". In 1986, very few people had cable tv. It was not broadcast live on ANY OTA station, not even in Houston. The only channels to carry it live were CNN and NASA Select. So if you didn't have cable, you didn't see it live.

There was no political pressure to launch on the day of the state of the Union as was stated by a previous post. There WAS schedule pressure. STS-51L was supposed to launch in FY 85 and was delayed for numerous reasons. Two other flights, STS 61B (Nov 85) and 61A (Jan 86) were launched before they could get Challenger and its payload which was primarily an IUS/TDRS scheduled for launch. The schedule pressure was to get the IUS/TDRS on orbit and to get Challenger ready again.

The real tragedy was that a Thiokol engineer was fighting a losing battle for 6 months trying to get the issue with the o-rings addressed. I posted a link to his wiki entry above. It was truly an accident waiting to happen. There had been several primary o-rimg failures and at least one partial secondary o-ring failure. That man risked his career during the days leading up to launch trying to get them to stop it. He was unable to convince the powers that be.

Politics had nothing to do with it as far as the State of the Union.

This brings up very emotional memories for me because I lost several people I had worked with that day. I wasn't going to post this at all, but I had to set the record straight. Believe me or don't. I lived it.

These are tough days for NASA, especially in the communities around JSC.  the Apollo 1 fire, Challenger and Columbia anniversaries are 1/29, 1/28 and 2/1. I was not involved in Apollo, but I was for the Challenger and Columbia accidents, and my heart still aches.

I don't disbelieve you, but I also know what I read from and was told by very senior USAF aeromedical types, including my former boss who supported the investigation.  I too did not go into the details out of respect for the crew and their families.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

Gravity,

You have my sympathies for the loss of your friends and co-workers, and I certainly mean them no disrespect.  While you have inside information I don't, it has been well documented that some of the engineers who worked on the launch urged that it be delayed because of the potential for o-ring failure in the cold temperatures, but were overruled by NASA and Morton Thiokol management. There was some serious pressure to go through with it from somewhere, and while I don't believe any orders were personally issued by Reagan, I wouldn't put something like that past his political handlers given the way they tightly stage managed his appearances. I sincerely hope I've been wrong about that for the past thirty years because I hate to think anyone would have willingly gambled with people's lives that way, and I would gladly recant my suspicions if they can be proven wrong.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/28/464744781/30-years-after-disaster-challenger-engineer-still-blames-himself

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175151

[GravitySucks]

Gravity,

You have my sympathies for the loss of your friends and co-workers, and I certainly mean them no disrespect.  While you have inside information I don't, it has been well documented that some of the engineers who worked on the launch urged that it be delayed because of the potential for o-ring failure in the cold temperatures, but were overruled by NASA and Morton Thiokol management. There was some serious pressure to go through with it from somewhere, and while I don't believe any orders were personally issued by Reagan, I wouldn't put something like that past his political handlers given the way they tightly stage managed his appearances. I sincerely hope I've been wrong about that for the past thirty years because I hate to think anyone would have willingly gambled with people's lives that way, and I would gladly recant my suspicions if they can be proven wrong.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/28/464744781/30-years-after-disaster-challenger-engineer-still-blames-himself

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175151

He was not the only one arguing against the launch, that is why I posted the link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Boisjoly

A lot of managerial and process changes were made to include an anonymous safety hotline and ombudsman, and a very stringent certification of flight readiness process, where virtually everyone from the lowest level supervisor to the top executives had to sign their name stating that there were no known issues or concerns which would preclude a safe mission. We all took this seriously. It was to late for the Challenger crew, but it instilled a sense of ownership and accountability throughout the Shuttle workforce.

In preparation for a subsequent mission, I took issue with something that had been done concerning a problem found with the backup flight software within 2 weeks of a launch. I delayed signing the CoFR and my boss said if I could not get comfortable with signing it, he would fly me to KSC so I could present my concerns at the L-2 review. Through subsequent analysis and a rigorous risk assessment, I finally felt comfortable signing the CoFR.  The good news is that I was fully supported by my management, and that the risk assessment was born out by the execution of a flawless launch. I never felt pressured to sign off on it.

There was plenty of blame to go around, but I do not believe for a minute that it was political pressure. It was more internal budget pressure and poor management decision making process.

Myth #6 in this article states that Feynman himself investigated the rumor and could not find evidence of it.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11031097/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/myths-about-challenger-shuttle-disaster/