Your Rights Are Fading Away!!

[PB the Deplorable]

It's more like we're tired of these people telling us how much soda we can buy, which vegetables we're supposed to be eating, what light bulbs to get, whether the grocery store can give you a bag - or what kind of bag - to take your groceries home in.  The list is endless.

Anything they can think of - nothing is too big or too small for their wisdom

Now they are destroying our medical system, and a bunch of jobs along with it.  Not only are hospitals laying off workers, but other companies are reducing hours and holding off on hiring because they don't want to pay the jacked up premiums - which already cost an enormous amount - on health care insurance for employees. All engineered by a bunch of people who didn't know the first thing about medical care, how the economy works, or unintended consequences.

And mind you none of this is what we elect them to do.  The things they were elected to do are either ignored or fucked up or cost 10 times what they should. 


So by all means Michelle - make a big deal out of drinking water, because we're all real stupid and didn't know about water.  And of course the Obama's are both just so smart. 


Here's another example of these jackasses from just down the road from my place.  I'd say this is representative of a modern day governing body's mindset -- out-of-touch, we-know-best, living-in-an-echo-chamber, money-is-no-object, politics-rules-with-no-place-for-common-sense, do-what-we-say-and-like-it:    Not too long ago, the City of Berkeley City Council was getting ready to pass a law mandating everyone in town to install white material on their roofs in order to reflect sunlight and do their part to stave off 'global warming'.  (Like that would even do anything anyway).  It was only supposed to cost the average homeowner $30,000-35,000 per unit.  The Council was shocked when the town folks rebelled (usually the renters can get the vote out for anything that sticks it to homeowners).  They pulled it and didn't vote on it.  No doubt though it's still lying around somewhere waiting for the right time to pop up again.



So yeah, Michelle can take her advice on drinking water and shove it.  It's time for them to go.

[Unquenchable Angst]

Water here smells like chlorine. The lake it is drawn from has PCB contamination. Supposedly mired in the lake bottom sediment. The Army Corp of Engineering  drew down the lake over 30 feet during the drought.(The rains this year filled the lake again).
I took the matter in my hands and bought myself a Berky with black filters and they had a deal that threw I the FP (Fluorine AND LEAD) filters for free three. Novembers ago this coming Nov. Water is very good from the filter. When I travel I carry a bunch of 1/2 gal. jars of water with me.
The Statist social engineers  applying their fixes are either for social engineering or to create 'business' for cronies.

[Yorkshire pud]

It's more like we're tired of these people telling us how much soda we can buy, which vegetables we're supposed to be eating, what light bulbs to get, whether the grocery store can give you a bag - or what kind of bag - to take your groceries home in.  The list is endless.

So by all means Michelle - make a big deal out of drinking water, because we're all real stupid and didn't know about water.  And of course the Obama's are both just so smart. 


So yeah, Michelle can take her advice on drinking water and shove it.  It's time for them to go.

Hmmm; yes indeed. Your railing would carry more weight if America wasn't the most obese country on the planet, didn't have crushing poverty that goes hand in hand with poor diet, poor health, poor life expectancy, and yes, has a lot of stupid people (as does any continent) and no obvious means to break the cycle. When any country has such things to tackle; The USA is by no means alone, and some of it is borne out of ignorance (Some actually believe McMuck is good for you, and have it as their staple diet); then yes, some DO need telling that water is good for them. The hard of thinking who are brought up believing 'The real thing' is actually a worthwhile part of a calorie controlled diet (The syrup that makes it is transported as a hazardous chemical) probably can't find their way around a vegetable rack let alone have it occur to them that veg is edible and god forbid actually be good for them, and so yes, maybe they do need treating like toddlers and have the facts of life (not the breeding kind) explained.

The problem with blindly attacking someone rather than the message they're trying to convey overlooks that the message might just have a point. However in our politically sensitive world, no politician (or his/her spouse) can possibly say "Okay, all you dumb asses out there who can't read and write and have an IQ in double figures, pay attention, I'll explain this slowly so you understand, if you still don't get it, I'll pass around pictures later": Doing so would get all kinds of accusations of discrimination against the idiotic/ignorant/uneducated being thrown around.

[PB the Deplorable]

Hmmm; yes indeed. Your railing would carry more weight if America wasn't the most obese country on the planet, didn't have crushing poverty that goes hand in hand with poor diet, poor health, poor life expectancy, and yes, has a lot of stupid people (as does any continent) and no obvious means to break the cycle...

The problem with blindly attacking someone rather than the message they're trying to convey overlooks that the message might just have a point. However in our politically sensitive world, no politician (or his/her spouse) can possibly say "Okay, all you dumb asses out there who can't read and write and have an IQ in double figures, pay attention, I'll explain this slowly so you understand, if you still don't get it, I'll pass around pictures later": Doing so would get all kinds of accusations of discrimination against the idiotic/ignorant/uneducated being thrown around.

You are right of course, so I won't even make a crack about sending her over there to tell everyone to brush and floss.


For me it's a similar situation in a sense to a relationship that's soured, or a job that's turned lousy, or a very annoying relative or acquaintance one has to interact with too often - at some point everything they say or do just grates, no matter what they are actually doing or saying.  Just the thought of them puts a person on edge.

With the Obama's it's come to that for a pretty large chunk of the population.  Not that it took long for a lot of us.  Take the person we are discussing - Michelle Obama.  She gets a full scholarship to an elite university, she comes back home and gets a Daily Machine patronage position making $350,000 per year in some phony job that she only has to show up for a few days a month. She gets her law degree (by the way somehow both the Obama's apparently lost their law licenses along the way, yet another mystery)

She attends that racist Marxist America-hating church.  The first words out of her mouth on the national stage are that 'for the first time in my life I'm proud of my country'.  In other words, she agreed with the filth the Rev Wright was spewing about how terrible the US is - and white people are - despite how well she's done here.

She had a permanent angry scowl for the first few years of O's Presidency, until someone finally must have told her to shave those eyebrows and start smiling.

Now she runs around taking lavish taxpayer paid vacations, telling the rest of us what to do, what to eat, what to drink.

And she's the more tolerable of the two. 

She needs to piss off, and they both need to leave.

[Yorkshire pud]

You are right of course, so I won't even make a crack about sending her over there to tell everyone to brush and floss.

No need; we have our own..However we have a subtle difference that in a way should give a modicum of credit to the fragrant Michelle (yeah I would). That difference is our (insert incumbent politician) will draft in a (insert well known 'expert'), to draw up a public awareness campaign whose remit might be quite wide, may even attract a budget (as well as a salary)..Examples in recent years: Jamie Oliver; well known chef, who is passionate about good healthy food. He went into schools and drew up healthy menus for the kids (out with turkey twizzlers-machine recovered shit that may have once resembled a flightless fowl) and in with fresh veg, real chicken, real fruit. He was so carried away and passionate about his remit he started telling the ministers where they were going wrong (not something they of course wanted to hear-bad Jamie), and he was quietly pushed aside; it hasn't of course shut him up, and he will take any opportunity to engage and encourage healthy eating, he runs free cookery seminars, employs young people who want to get into cooking, etc.

Another is Mary Portis; a statuesque lady in comfortable shoes, who was tasked with revitilising town and city centre shops. Places that used to thrive, but have lain empty for years gathering graffiti. She recently said that the money she was assured would be forthcoming to try and generate this revival hasn't been forthcoming-no surprises there then. Her frustration at her perceived waste of time is palpable.

Those are just two, there have been others..The point I'm making is, the politicians can stand back and see the fall guy or gall take the flack if it goes wrong, keeping them squeaky clean. In her case Michelle Obama will take the flack, if she'd been sneaky like our shower of shit, she'd have offloaded it.

[PB the Deplorable]

...The point I'm making is, the politicians can stand back and see the fall guy or gall take the flack if it goes wrong, keeping them squeaky clean. In her case Michelle Obama will take the flack, if she'd been sneaky like our shower of shit, she'd have offloaded it.

Every First Lady in the US is expected to have a cause (the way Diana did with the landmines) - encouraging kids to read, just say no to drugs, etc.  Michelle's is fitness and health for kids, including growing fresh veggies and eating healthy meals

Like I said, it's more of this person having reached the point of grating - and added to all the other busybodies each with their pet ways to force us to improve - than anything else.

[Falkie2013]

What rights have you lost? I mean tell me something that has changed your way of life.

I agree it is beyond words to have nothing truly private... but in all candor, I am not sure how much I have been affected.

To me the only people with rights are those with enough money to enjoy access to things others do not have. I am free to go to the store, and buy stuff. I am free to choose a movie, or deodorant. But am I free? I am not free of responsibilities.

I am more free than those that cant protest their government. I am more free than those that can't have or don't have access to other nations news.

We can no longer protest, except in free speech zones. That pisses me off. but not so much I will do much about it, further than this.

How about the erosion of freedom of movement ?

You now have to show id just about everywhere.

To get into a Federal building that your taxes paid for.

To ride Amtrak and even Greyhound.

To vote in most states unless you vote by mail.

And so many other things where we able to travel and move about without restrictions.

And even that has the potential for abuse.

In New York City, their version of Fastrak can track you from the time you drive the car out of the driveway or garage, every stop and store you go to until you get back home.

Its only inevitable until some politician uses the data for his own nefarious purposes.

And then there's NSA surveiling just about everyone and everywhere.

Our rights have been eroded because we've let lawmakers and bureaucrats pass laws and regulations without raising hell about it.

I am against many provisions of the Patriot Act.

When it was enacted, I was too sick to object to it.

And Congress keeps renewing it even though it was never meant to be permanent.

Once politicians and governments get power over the people they seldom if ever relinquish it.

[onan]

How about the erosion of freedom of movement ?

You now have to show id just about everywhere.

To get into a Federal building that your taxes paid for.

To ride Amtrak and even Greyhound.

To vote in most states unless you vote by mail.

And so many other things where we able to travel and move about without restrictions.

And even that has the potential for abuse.

In New York City, their version of Fastrak can track you from the time you drive the car out of the driveway or garage, every stop and store you go to until you get back home.

Its only inevitable until some politician uses the data for his own nefarious purposes.

And then there's NSA surveiling just about everyone and everywhere.

Our rights have been eroded because we've let lawmakers and bureaucrats pass laws and regulations without raising hell about it.

I am against many provisions of the Patriot Act.

When it was enacted, I was too sick to object to it.

And Congress keeps renewing it even though it was never meant to be permanent.

Once politicians and governments get power over the people they seldom if ever relinquish it.

Yeah I have been aware for some time. However, I find it extremely bothersome that this is now your dog in the fight even though the patriot act is now over a decade old. So yeah I am suspicious of the timing. I think I was also annoyed by the post I responded to. I don't remember now and I am not going to retrace steps back to July.

I also find it problematic that Michael Moore presented much of this in his movie "Fahrenheit 9/11" which was looked down upon (to put it mildly) by many members of this forum.

so yeah I get it, I get it, that it is worthy of discussion now.

[Ben Shockley]

Water here smells like chlorine. The lake it is drawn from has PCB contamination. Supposedly mired in the lake bottom sediment. The Army Corp of Engineering  drew down the lake over 30 feet during the drought.(The rains this year filled the lake again).
I took the matter in my hands and bought myself a Berky with black filters ...  When I travel I carry a bunch of 1/2 gal. jars of water with me.
The Statist social engineers  applying their fixes are either for social engineering or to create 'business' for cronies.

Okay, Angst, I agree that PCBs in the lake is bad news.  But other than that, were you just rambling or what?   Water around here is drawn from a deep aquifer that I've never heard of having any pollution, yet the treatment process does indeed give it "a smell."  On the Gulf (of Mexico) Coast, a lot of water is treated with sulfur, and indeed has a funky smell, yet it tastes about as pure as any I have ever tasted.
The Corps of Engineers drew your lake down.   So what?   Are you suggesting that that was done pointlessly, to just fuck with y'all?  Or do you have reason to say that the advertised purpose was a lie or demonstrably unnecessary or incompetent?   Or could it be that the valid reason they more likely did have just doesn't satisfy you?   The very fact that those guys control the lake suggests that your lake wouldn't exist (or at least not in any usable form) if not for their work, so would you rather that they leave you good citizens alone and take their lake with them?   Maybe pristine water will spring forth without input from your Berky filter --  maybe if you strike it Moses-style with the barrel of a locally-hand-hewn black-powder percussion rifle(?)

Then you jump to "statist [whatever that means] social engineers."   Just to get us all on the same sheet of music, let's define our terms.   "Social engineering" -- I have my own ideas, but http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social%20engineering gives us:
  -- the practice of making laws or using other methods to influence public opinion and solve social problems or improve social conditions
  -- management of human beings in accordance with their place and function in society
  -- applied social science

Are you even trying to connect this with the business about the lake?   If so, look dude: I'm just not as smart as the typical Tea Partier nor tax protester nor "Freeman" nor Bircher, and connections like that don't come to my mind as readily as they do for smart, "awake" folks like those.   So you just have to help me out.   What does "social engineering" have to do with PCBs in your lake?   Do you figure that XYZ Corporation that made and dumped those chemicals did it to "influence public opinion and solve social problems or improve social conditions?"
Make the connections for us.    Hell-- make a connection between anything you mentioned and "rights" (that, you know, the thread is supposedly about).

And now, over to:

... it's more of this person having reached the point of grating ...

P*B --  Barack Obama and family passed your "point of grating" the first time you saw his picture, or, given your endlessly advertised cultural sensibilities, the first time you heard that trans-Mediterranean name.
Don't even try arguing, because at this point, the only person you MIGHT convince is the man in your mirror (I mean "yourself," not the Islamo-Negroid specter you constantly hallucinate).

For all you folks suddenly so concerned about rights and a supposedly tyrannical federal government, I agree with a wise man who recently said:

...I am suspicious of the timing.

[Yorkshire pud]

Okay, Angst, I agree that PCBs in the lake is bad news.  But other than that, were you just rambling or what?   Water around here is drawn from a deep aquifer that I've never heard of having any pollution, yet the treatment process does indeed give it "a smell."  On the Gulf (of Mexico) Coast, a lot of water is treated with sulfur, and indeed has a funky smell, yet it tastes about as pure as any I have ever tasted.
The Corps of Engineers drew your lake down.   So what?   Are you suggesting that that was done pointlessly, to just fuck with y'all?  Or do you have reason to say that the advertised purpose was a lie or demonstrably unnecessary or incompetent?   Or could it be that the valid reason they more likely did have just doesn't satisfy you?   The very fact that those guys control the lake suggests that your lake wouldn't exist (or at least not in any usable form) if not for their work, so would you rather that they leave you good citizens alone and take their lake with them?   Maybe pristine water will spring forth without input from your Berky filter --  maybe if you strike it Moses-style with the barrel of a locally-hand-hewn black-powder percussion rifle(?)

Then you jump to "statist [whatever that means] social engineers."   Just to get us all on the same sheet of music, let's define our terms.   "Social engineering" -- I have my own ideas, but http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social%20engineering gives us:
  -- the practice of making laws or using other methods to influence public opinion and solve social problems or improve social conditions
  -- management of human beings in accordance with their place and function in society
  -- applied social science

Are you even trying to connect this with the business about the lake?   If so, look dude: I'm just not as smart as the typical Tea Partier nor tax protester nor "Freeman" nor Bircher, and connections like that don't come to my mind as readily as they do for smart, "awake" folks like those.   So you just have to help me out.   What does "social engineering" have to do with PCBs in your lake?   Do you figure that XYZ Corporation that made and dumped those chemicals did it to "influence public opinion and solve social problems or improve social conditions?"
Make the connections for us.    Hell-- make a connection between anything you mentioned and "rights" (that, you know, the thread is supposedly about).

And now, over to:P*B --  Barack Obama and family passed your "point of grating" the first time you saw his picture, or, given your endlessly advertised cultural sensibilities, the first time you heard that trans-Mediterranean name.
Don't even try arguing, because at this point, the only person you MIGHT convince is the man in your mirror (I mean "yourself," not the Islamo-Negroid specter you constantly hallucinate).

For all you folks suddenly so concerned about rights and a supposedly tyrannical federal government, I agree with a wise man who recently said:

I've alluded to it previously Ben via carrier swan; You're far too intelligent for these parts. You should grab Onan, and W ot R and set up a 'clever people only' web site. 

[PB the Deplorable]

... And now, over to:P*B --  Barack Obama and family passed your "point of grating" the first time you saw his picture, or, given your endlessly advertised cultural sensibilities, the first time you heard that trans-Mediterranean name.
Don't even try arguing, because at this point, the only person you MIGHT convince is the man in your mirror (I mean "yourself," not the Islamo-Negroid specter you constantly hallucinate)...

Oh yay, Ben's back.  Finally someone on Puds level. At least Pud has an excuse for why he's so confused - he's a lawyer.


As far as the Obama's, I gave you my 'grating point' for Moochelle.  For Barry it was cumulative.  Prior to his candidacy, he was just another annoying Progressive in the Senate, reliably against anything the Rs wanted to do (there's some irony, given his whining that they don't go along with him now).

It wasn't until we heard a few clips from Rev Wright at that putrid church of theirs, and a few choice comments he didn't realize were being recorded at private fundraising events on the campaign trail, that people realized this guy is a Louis Farrakhan clone - but without the humor and paper trail.


In this post, basically you are implying I'd be just fine with them if only Barry and Michelle were white.  Yah, right.  All this time away from the forum and that's the best you could do?  I think pretty much everyone has him figured out by now except for the dead-enders.  He's not acceptable regardless of what he looks like, where he came from, or which clubs he belongs to.



It is so great you and Pud are together again.  You should have Pud pull out his dictionary - it's a hoot when he pores through it and tries to prove Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, and the Kims in North Korea are actually right-wingers.  He says Obama is one too. 

But don't take my word for it ask him:  Hey Pud, tell the professor the one about Obama being a right winger.  And please don't leave out your explanation.

[Falkie2013]

Yeah I have been aware for some time. However, I find it extremely bothersome that this is now your dog in the fight even though the patriot act is now over a decade old. So yeah I am suspicious of the timing. I think I was also annoyed by the post I responded to. I don't remember now and I am not going to retrace steps back to July.

I also find it problematic that Michael Moore presented much of this in his movie "Fahrenheit 9/11" which was looked down upon (to put it mildly) by many members of this forum.

so yeah I get it, I get it, that it is worthy of discussion now.

My memory has failed me once again. I confused my own timeline.

At the time of the enactment of the Patriot Act, I was busy trying to survive.

I had lost my apartment in Oakland 2 1/2 years previously and had been living in my new apartment when my NEW landlord decided to renovate the building and throw all the 33 tenants out into the street with almost no warning.

I spent the next 6 months trying to find a place to live while living in my car with my 2 cats.

Eventually I would up staying with a co-worker for a year and then moved in with my girlfriend.

I lost my apartment exactly one month after 9/11 and will never forget having to put everything I owned in storage only to wind up losing most of it because my storage manager couldn't do her record keeping properly and was always off on how she kept the books.

I voiced my strong opinions against many of its provisions once I found out about it and have objected to its numerous extensions.

They had just started DSL back then and I had no internet access for 2 years and didn't read the paper much or listen to the news except for late night talk radio, including AB.

[onan]

My memory has failed me once again. I confused my own timeline.

At the time of the enactment of the Patriot Act, I was busy trying to survive.

I had lost my apartment in Oakland 2 1/2 years previously and had been living in my new apartment when my NEW landlord decided to renovate the building and throw all the 33 tenants out into the street with almost no warning.

I spent the next 6 months trying to find a place to live while living in my car with my 2 cats.

Eventually I would up staying with a co-worker for a year and then moved in with my girlfriend.

I lost my apartment exactly one month after 9/11 and will never forget having to put everything I owned in storage only to wind up losing most of it because my storage manager couldn't do her record keeping properly and was always off on how she kept the books.

I voiced my strong opinions against many of its provisions once I found out about it and have objected to its numerous extensions.

They had just started DSL back then and I had no internet access for 2 years and didn't read the paper much or listen to the news except for late night talk radio, including AB.

Look I don't think you are specifically targettng this admin... although that is a possibility. My argument is more out of the frustration that now it is being blamed on a progressive administration. And they deserve a big portion of blame. But I find it troublesome that the stink is sticking to one administration more so than previous. And this NSA stuff goes back a long ways.

And I too understand r/l issues always take front row seating. I hope all your ills are behind you or at least are easily manageable.

[Yorkshire pud]

Oh yay, Ben's back.  Finally someone on Puds level. At least Pud has an excuse for why he's so confused - he's a lawyer.

I don't know who told you I was a lawyer PB, it wasn't me. I should be upfront and tell you it does cause a bit of laugh in PM's asking if I really am a lawyer. But alas, I'm not, sorry.

It is so great you and Pud are together again.  You should have Pud pull out his dictionary - it's a hoot when he pores through it and tries to prove Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, and the Kims in North Korea are actually right-wingers.  He says Obama is one too. 

Nope; I didn't have to look in a dictionary.. However if you at all think that Pol Pot, Hitler, Mao, Stalin et al were liberal you really need to get a reality check. As we all know in the history according to right wing Americans, liberals and communism are the same thing, and communism has nothing to do with the masses (The people) choosing their own destiny without an autocratic dictator (although that's exactly what it is). Stalin was an autocratic dictator; he may have said he was a communist and it suited the cold war that the west sold that bollox, but if his communist utopia was so erm, communist, why did many Soviet Union citizens try to escape? They'd have no need to because (and this is the kicker) they would control the government, not a dictator. That is the reality; Communism doesn't advocate fascist dictatorships, it's a collective, everyone is equal, not a top down (from government) cascade. 

But don't take my word for it ask him:  Hey Pud, tell the professor the one about Obama being a right winger.  And please don't leave out your explanation.

See above PB..I've tried explaining before; that you insist on not accepting the explanation doesn't make my explanation difficult, just your incapacity to accept or understand it. In a way, your (and others') demand for small government, people being their own boss, not being subjugated, and all for the greater good are the tenets of communism, but it will kill you to believe or accept that I shouldn't wonder, so I won't repeat that again.

[PB the Deplorable]

Anyone discussing history or current events that hears or uses the word 'communism' is referring to the ideology of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc.  They aren't talking about some farm somewhere that a few families are running collectively.  No matter what you or your dictionary says.  If a person is talking about a collective they're clear that's what they mean when they bring it up.

As far as regimes like that being 'Military Dictatorships', no - they are far worse.  Examples of military dictatorships are Marcos' Philippines, Mubarak's Egypt, and hundreds of similar governments over the years.  Those governments aren't the greatest, and some are pretty bad, but they are not in the same category as Castro's Cuba, Maos's China, the old USSR d Warsaw Pact nations, or modern day North Korea - the countries that we call 'communist' were and are horrific. 

I'd offer a few of the major differences between a Communist country and a Military Dictatorship, but I think most people have an understanding of the differences, more or less.

It's important because words have meanings, and ideas are important, and when we use them incorrectly it causes confusion and can lead to poor policies.  I'm not the one defining these words and ideas, I'm just the one pointing out the dictionary definition doesn't always apply to the political realm.  This really is not a difficult concept, or even a radical one.


As for your dictionary definitions of political ideas - if some politician claims to be a 'liberal', or a 'conservative', or any of a number of other political categories, a person can't just then pick up a dictionary, look up the word, and say with full assurance that's what that person stands for.  Please tell me you really do understand this and aren't just pranking me.

[Yorkshire pud]

Anyone discussing history or current events that hears or uses the word 'communism' is referring to the ideology of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc.  They aren't talking about some farm somewhere that a few families are running collectively.  No matter what you or your dictionary says.  If a person is talking about a collective they're clear that's what they mean when they bring it up.

As far as regimes like that being 'Military Dictatorships', no - they are far worse.  Examples of military dictatorships are Marcos' Philippines, Mubarak's Egypt, and hundreds of similar governments over the years.  Those governments aren't the greatest, and some are pretty bad, but they are not in the same category as Castro's Cuba, Maos's China, the old USSR d Warsaw Pact nations, or modern day North Korea - the countries that we call 'communist' were and are horrific. 

I'd offer a few of the major differences between a Communist country and a Military Dictatorship, but I think most people have an understanding of the differences, more or less.

It's important because words have meanings, and ideas are important, and when we use them incorrectly it causes confusion and can lead to poor policies.  I'm not the one defining these words and ideas, I'm just the one pointing out the dictionary definition doesn't always apply to the political realm.  This really is not a difficult concept, or even a radical one.


As for your dictionary definitions of political ideas - if some politician claims to be a 'liberal', or a 'conservative', or any of a number of other political categories, a person can't just then pick up a dictionary, look up the word, and say with full assurance that's what that person stands for.  Please tell me you really do understand this and aren't just pranking me.

That dictators, fanatical followers, politicians of all creeds and colours are perverse; to the detriment of their respective populations, I agree is the issue. If some fool/frightened citizen hangs onto a nude Emperor believing he's just told them that from now on green will be renamed blue, despite what his eyes are telling him, then there is where the problem lies..ALL dictators have a common ground. They rule by fear, they rule by paranoia, they rule by the very real threat of death to oneself and family, for transgressions, whilst at the same time having a PR telling the people they've never had it so good. You tell someone long enough a lie, it becomes a perceived truth, even though it's still a lie. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Saddam Hussein were no different. The Romans did it, Alexander the Great did  it.

Stalin told the Soviet people they had Communism; why would they know any different? They didn't have anything to compare with. The west knew it as Communism; but it doesn't mean it was. It was a fascist dictatorship.

[Unquenchable Angst]

That dictators, fanatical followers, politicians of all creeds and colours are perverse; to the detriment of their respective populations, I agree is the issue. If some fool/frightened citizen hangs onto a nude Emperor believing he's just told them that from now on green will be renamed blue, despite what his eyes are telling him, then there is where the problem lies..ALL dictators have a common ground. They rule by fear, they rule by paranoia, they rule by the very real threat of death to oneself and family, for transgressions, whilst at the same time having a PR telling the people they've never had it so good. You tell someone long enough a lie, it becomes a perceived truth, even though it's still a lie. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Saddam Hussein were no different. The Romans did it, Alexander the Great did  it.

Stalin told the Soviet people they had Communism; why would they know any different? They didn't have anything to compare with. The west knew it as Communism; but it doesn't mean it was. It was a fascist dictatorship.

Wilhelm Reich wrote about Fascism and differentiated them by calling one Black and Communism as Red Fascism. They may not be Communism as you wish to intellectualize but as history confirms those that have instituted the notion of Communism have always turned to killing off opposition and or killing off the useful idiots that helped the success of their 'revolution'.

[bateman]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/26/keith-alexander-nsa_n_3998071.html

Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) asked Alexander if the NSA wants "the phone records of all Americans" during a congressional hearing Thursday.

"I believe it is in the nation's best interest to put all the phone records into a lockbox that we can search when the nation needs to do it, yes," Alexander replied.

We have no reason not to trust them, right?? RIGHT??

[onan]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/26/keith-alexander-nsa_n_3998071.html
We have no reason not to trust them, right?? RIGHT??

I will let them have my phone records when I can have theirs.

[bateman]

They are mapping out your entire life. There was a time when this would have been the realm of wild conspiracy theory.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/nsa-examines-social-networks-of-us-citizens.html?_r=0&pagewanted=print

[bateman]

... the decision to revise the limits concerning Americans was made in secret, without review by the nation’s intelligence court or any public debate.

[Yorkshire pud]

A 2009 draft of an N.S.A. inspector general’s report suggests that contact chaining and analysis may have been done on Americans’ communications data under the Bush administration’s program of wiretapping without warrants, which began after the Sept. 11 attacks to detect terrorist activities and skirted the existing laws governing electronic surveillance.
In 2006, months after the wiretapping program was disclosed by The New York Times, the N.S.A.’s acting general counsel wrote a letter to a senior Justice Department official, which was also leaked by Mr. Snowden, formally asking for permission to perform the analysis on American phone and e-mail data. A Justice Department memo to the attorney general noted that the “misuse” of such information “could raise serious concerns,” and said the N.S.A. promised to impose safeguards, including regular audits, on the metadata program. In 2008, the Bush administration gave its approval.

A new policy that year, detailed in “Defense Supplemental Procedures Governing Communications Metadata Analysis,” authorized by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey, said that since the Supreme Court had ruled that metadata was not constitutionally protected, N.S.A. analysts could use such information “without regard to the nationality or location of the communicants,” according to an internal N.S.A. description of the policy.

And elsewhere in the link, it suggests the stuff was started as far back as 79... They're all at it.

[Falkie2013]

Look I don't think you are specifically targettng this admin... although that is a possibility. My argument is more out of the frustration that now it is being blamed on a progressive administration. And they deserve a big portion of blame. But I find it troublesome that the stink is sticking to one administration more so than previous. And this NSA stuff goes back a long ways.

And I too understand r/l issues always take front row seating. I hope all your ills are behind you or at least are easily manageable.

We have an occupant of the White House who was elected because he campaigned as a reformer. He had the chance to stop this spying on citizens crap. So did his Demoratic friends in Congress. Instead he increased the spying, used the IRS to target the opposition and more.
It's way past time to impeach the guy and I'm praying the GOP takes both houses next year so that he can be removed from office.
He's an incompetent in so many ways. From foreign policy, to economic policy, to the stimulus that mostly went to help his crooked cronies and unions, to the cash for cars thing, attacking the coal industry, EPA rules that are trying to take water rights away in the West from landowners and ranchers,to executive orders that circumvent the Constitution, the will of the people and Congress and so much more.
Only problem with impeaching him is the blacks and the occupy crowd are going to go nuts about it and riot because in electing him twice they only see the blackness in their tunnel vision view of the world as they think it is and not as it really is. When I and my fellow Conservatives show how this guy has failed and lied ( over 500 lies from him in his own words so far ) all they say is that we are HATERS and racists.
Much like the defenders of Noory who think he's " awesome " and can't see him for the incompetent boob that he is as well.

[aldousburbank]

Have to agree with you Falkie. IMstupidO, the guy is a setup walk on actor reading a script. Congratulations progressive America. However, as lame or incompetent or untruthful and disagreeable as he may be, I doubt anything impeachable could ever be isolated and pursued by a girly man congress. Yeah, maybe the birth certificate. born on mars, tissue cultured by CIA

[b_dubb]

i suspect he meant to be a reformer right up until they let those two party crashers into an official white house event.  a very subtle way to say 'touchable' to pusa.  maybe they threatened the wife and kids.  this seems far fetched.  but then consider how he was going to cancel the joint strike fighter. and that's a 1.5 trillion dollar program.  don't tell me that didn't piss someone off

[aldousburbank]

i suspect he meant to be a reformer right up until they let those two party crashers into an official white house event.  a very subtle way to say 'touchable' to pusa.  maybe they threatened the wife and kids.  this seems far fetched.  but then consider how he was going to cancel the joint strike fighter. and that's a 1.5 trillion dollar program.  don't tell me that didn't piss someone off

That's heavy dude.

[Falkie2013]

Have to agree with you Falkie. IMstupidO, the guy is a setup walk on actor reading a script. Congratulations progressive America. However, as lame or incompetent or untruthful and disagreeable as he may be, I doubt anything impeachable could ever be isolated and pursued by a girly man congress. Yeah, maybe the birth certificate. born on mars, tissue cultured by CIA

This weekend a group of Black Republicans were going to put an ad in the Washington Times that was supposed to list 50 impeachable offenses for impeaching Obama. There are numerous reasons to impeach him. I forgot Benghasi as well.
I'm certain the 9 Congressmen and Senators who called for his impeachment last year could come up with reasons as well.
Tpday a liberal columnist printed an article that said " who cares " what the people think about Obamacare. This is the problem with liberal elitism. Now 2 companies have cancelled their plans to do documentaries on Hillary, who said Benghazi doesn't matter.
These people think they know better and that they can tell everyone what to do in their lives and if you don't agree jusr shut the hell up.

former Congressman Alan West abd current Congressman Darryl Issa have come up with 100 reasons to impeach Obama. Here's the link from Alex Jones' site. I'm sure one could find more links but I just woke up and am no good until breakfast and coffee to focus my eyes. Stayed up late watching a series of Ghost Hunters DVDs.

http://www.infowars.com/100-reasons-to-impeach-barack-obama/

[Falkie2013]

i suspect he meant to be a reformer right up until they let those two party crashers into an official white house event.  a very subtle way to say 'touchable' to pusa.  maybe they threatened the wife and kids.  this seems far fetched.  but then consider how he was going to cancel the joint strike fighter. and that's a 1.5 trillion dollar program.  don't tell me that didn't piss someone off

Yeah, what ever happened to those two ? There was talk about prosecuting them and nothing was heard of them again.
Senate just rejected GOP conditions to delay funding for O'bumacare and is expected to send back bill to the house. Shutdown looming.
Speaking of shutdowns, the Obamacare healthcare system is supposed to allow insurance agents to switch to Obamacare tomorrow. The website doesn't work and the paid stooges of Obama are absolutely NO help for them. The site has been down for 2 weeks.
It like Obama or as I call him O'buma or O'numba is a joke.

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[stevesh]

Yeah, what ever happened to those two ? There was talk about prosecuting them and nothing was heard of them again.
Senate just rejected GOP conditions to delay funding for O'bumacare and is expected to send back bill to the house. Shutdown looming.
Speaking of shutdowns, the Obamacare healthcare system is supposed to allow insurance agents to switch to Obamacare tomorrow. The website doesn't work and the paid stooges of Obama are absolutely NO help for them. The site has been down for 2 weeks.
It like Obama or as I call him O'buma or O'numba is a joke.

Didn't the wife run off with a guitarist from REO Speedwagon (sorry, it was Journey - same same) or something? Punishment enough, I say.

[aldousburbank]

Didn't the wife run off with a guitarist from REO Speedwagon or something? Punishment enough, I say.

If that's not true it should be.