Time to consider "Worst Administration Ever"?

[stevesh]

Oh oh. Even the Gray Lady is starting to turn on the Golden One:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&

[Juan]

I have a friend who is now very upset that Obama knows every video he's watched on youporn.

And the Wall Street Journal is reporting that the NSA collects all our credit card transactions, too.  I'm almost at the point of wondering if these leaks are true, or if the bastards are just trying to scare us.

[Yorkshire pud]

I have a friend who is now very upset that Obama knows every video he's watched on youporn.

And the Wall Street Journal is reporting that the NSA collects all our credit card transactions, too.  I'm almost at the point of wondering if these leaks are true, or if the bastards are just trying to scare us.

It isn't a new thing. It's just been leaked. And of course the ability to do it is far easier than it was even five years ago..I see Microsoft have come in for some flack n their latest X box.. They've generously said that it won't record conversations! Oh, and the games you buy (with money that eventually gets back to MS) isn't yours to do as you wish..It will be registered to you, but you can only lend it once to a friend!!


I've mentioned it before but RAF Menwith hill is a listening post in North Yorkshire in England..RAF..Royal Air Force...The land may 'belong' to the RAF, and the station commander is RAF..but that's where it ends. The contents teh infrastruture what it does is American (And has been to my knowledge for at least thirty years).. It listens to, records and flags up EVERY telephone number, text, e mail sent from the UK and most of western Europe to the USA and vice versa.. The info goes directly to the NSA and if they deem the info worthy of UK knowledge they impart it.. It isn't an Obama thing..never was.. He's way out of the loop..as has every other president in recent years.. Bush didn't make things easier for you with the so called Patriot Act...Now that is scary shit.

[Juan]

Rumors were, about 1995, that to get around domestic spying laws, a Brit agency spied on the US and US agencies spied on the Brits.  Then they swapped data.

[Eddie Coyle]

I have a friend who is now very upset that Obama knows every video he's watched on youporn.

No need to worry, he could benefit from this. If he watched sick, depraved shit...well, that could mean a job offer from the UN at very least.

[Sardondi]

Love the way Obam-apologists are reduced to responding "Bush did it first!". Let's assume that's true - and Bush didn't do nearly what Obama has done with tapping and searching either phones or the internet - so the fuck what? I was under the impression that the position of 90% of Democrats was that just what Bush did made him subject to impeachment and removal. So what are they saying should be done with Obama - launching into the outer void of space? Ah, but you know better than that - it's the media we're talking about, after all. So many of them who are today scrambling to whitewash and minimize Obama's hot love for 1984-style government were also saying the fact of PRISM's existence in 2007 was absolute proof Bush was a Nazi who should be summarily removed from office - many civilians were even calling for his death (funny how that one works too: not a single online sentence which contains both "Obama" and the make-dead word has gone uninvestigated, whereas thousands of "Bush needs to be killed" statements were simply ignored.)

Plus Bush's program didn't go nearly as far as Obama's executive order that the government live inside our computers. Simply hilarious, that. Of course those of us who opposed him knew Obama was more than just a manipulative and cynical pol: we knew he was an actual, committed revolutionary who sought the massive redistribution of wealth by government fiat so as to achieve a Soviet-style socialist society. We he would use any dodge, tell any lie to achieve his ends. We knew he viewed truth as nothing more than a commodity, to be doled out sparingly as a very valuable resource. So it doesn't surprise us that Obama is capable of government by diktat he is so expert in.

What has surprised us is that Obama has in many ways been indistinguishable from Bush in his policies. His wars, his assassinations-by-drone, his use of Gitmo, and his favorite Bush policy, using the Patriot Act to trample the Constitutional requirements of due process, equal protection, habeas corpus and search and seizure protections, plus ignore the rights to free speech, press and right of association, and particularly privacy. Now we're even going back to Colonial days and compelling taxation without representation. Dang, now I'm wondering when he's going to require we bed down the National Guard for free.

We didn't know that a vote for Obama was a vote to extend Bush's policies! But I bet Karl Rove reads the NYT every day and just has a belly laugh at how much of the Bush Administration is still going strong.

[Eddie Coyle]

 
          James Mann's "The Obamians" has many instances of Bush-era policies that Obama the Candidate railed against, but once in office, he not only failed to abolish, but actually expanded upon. And "National Security" is the mantra utilized to defend and rationalize.

        It should be a wake up call to the "idealists", aka adult children, who thought Obama was "one of us", and not part of the establishment. Did you know that Susan Rice's parents were close friends with Madeline Albright? These "outsiders" are as inside you can get.
       
     
           

[MV/Liberace!]

I hate talking on the phone, but my cell uses the Verizon network so I called four people I know today just to run up the count.

heh heh, that'll show 'em.  fuckers.

[West of the Rockies]

Well, I know that Diane Feinstein did a pretty silly tap dance on the subject... So, yeah, there are some Dems who are defending/explaining the situation.  But most of the liberals I speak to are pretty pissed off.  I do not seem them circling the wagons and defending Fort Obama.  And the question is not IF the program was started under Bush:  it started in 2007 and he remained at the helm until January 2009.  To me, it demonstrates the point that in some ways, the distinction between Democrat and Republican is paper-thin.  They both make deals; they both have agendas; they both make sure that they benefit first.

Orwell called in correctly in Animal Farm:  All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.

[Yorkshire pud]

Love the way Obam-apologists are reduced to responding "Bush did it first!". Let's assume that's true -

If it were only true... But the fact it's been going since Obama was a wee lad suggests all administrations (and UK governments) at various times since the 70's or so have overseen surveillance on it's population in one form or another.

[Yorkshire pud]

Rumors were, about 1995, that to get around domestic spying laws, a Brit agency spied on the US and US agencies spied on the Brits.  Then they swapped data.

Like this?...Only this is now...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22813893

[PB the Deplorable]

... To me, it demonstrates the point that in some ways, the distinction between Democrat and Republican is paper-thin.  They both make deals; they both have agendas; they both make sure that they benefit first.

Orwell called in correctly in Animal Farm:  All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.

Bush is just another Big Government Globalist.  The entire Republican leadership in DC is.  That's why they are getting 'primaryed'.  On many (most?) issues the 2 parties actually boil down to the people inside the Beltway vs. the rest of us.

[PB the Deplorable]

... But most of the liberals I speak to are pretty pissed off...

The thing is, the Left doesn't give a hoot about equality or the environment or human rights or helping the poor or gay rights or women's rights or minorities or 'peace' or civil liberties or unions or freedom of expression or any of the rest of it.  They just claim to be to get the people that are to vote for them - enough to hopefully cobble together a majority coalition.  And as weapons to use as wedge issues.  While they are at it, they propose policies that sound good and have nice titles but are actually destructive.  Look no further than our inner cities or the massive debt and tax load.  . 

They try to blend in with the Libs, and a lot of people don't know the difference and end up following them along.

Look at the places where the Left has achieved full permanent power - Cuba, China, the old USSR and Warsaw Pact nations, North Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam.   How have gays been treated there?  Minorities?  The environment?  Human rights?  Civil rights?  Unions?  Free speech?   Any of what the Left in our country tells us is their agenda.    Ask Lech Walesa about unions.  How peaceful are/were they with their neighbors or on the world stage?  How do they treat their own people - from the Cossacks to the Tibetans?  Yet they talk constantly about 'peace'.  The Occupy thugs are always telling us how peaceful they are.  Including right before and right after tearing up a park or firebombing a downtown, fighting the police.

They are lying.  Obama is lying.  That whole crowd is lying.  Of course the people that thought Obama was going to come in and do all the things they thought he would were wrong.  He lied about it.  That's what the Hard Left does.  An enemy within.  Other than armed revolution they can't achieve power any other way.

[Sardondi]

[West of the Rockies]

Damn, it is just such a different world than the one a lot of us grew up in.  With technology has come some great things -- the immediate access to information, for instance.  Of course, a lot of that information is utter horseshit and worthless.  Do I really need to be able to access a picture of Kim Kardashian's rump on demand?  I think not....

But I remember the days of channels 2-13 on TV (and maybe some weird UHF stations:  channel 44, for instance).   And TV went to the Indian chief image at two in the morning on a lot of channels.  Do any of you remember the phrase:  "This concludes our broadcast day"?   No such thing as cell phones.  NOBODY had a computer, video games, etc.  You wanted to watch a James Bond movie?  Then you had to wait 'til ABC decided to throw one on for the Sunday Night Movie!

You also had privacy.  No one could track you because you had a gizmo in your pocket.  Now, you can pretty much reach anybody anywhere.  (Except for those weirdos, like me, who choose not to have a cell phone.)

Forgive the rant... There's more I could probably ramble on about, but sometimes I really lament how technology has begun to fundamentally change who we are, how we interact, what we believe.  With great convenience comes great loss of privacy I guess....

[PB the Deplorable]

...  (Except for those weirdos, like me, who choose not to have a cell phone.)...

Same here!  I knew there had to be someone else out there.  I must confess I've been thinking of getting one.  Maybe one that does everything except handle phone calls.

On the other hand, I lived most of my life without the internet, now I can't imagine it not being there.  It's a real crisis around here if it goes out on me.

[Yorkshire pud]

A bit of an update on the last piece I linked...Okay to give you some background so it sort of makes any sense (tell me if it does!) we currently have a coalition government (I won't go into the why and how) since the last general election. Parliament (similar to your own Congress) has many committees made up of representatives of all parties; but generally the same Chairman/Chairwoman has been in the seat of the appropriate committee for several years..generally they're pretty robust and have a great deal of influence. They're also been considered to bring prosecutions similar to US practice. Anyway:


The coalition is mainly the Conservative (that is the name of he party for those unaware)..And Liberal Democrats..unlikely bed fellows, and it shows! Both have had to compromise..but as the Lib Dems are in the minority, they're doing most of the concessions to policy.
The opposition is made up mainly by the Labour party; it's founding being with the unions in the 1930's, which were borne from the starving manual workers of the time. They were of the left of centre (sometimes more than others)..but since Tony Bliar, they've joined the race to the middle ground, 'cos that's where the votes are baby..


So knowing the political make up, and who is in charge (Conservative-right)...read the following. Makes interesting reading.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22827368

[ItsOver]

...But I remember the days of channels 2-13 on TV (and maybe some weird UHF stations:  channel 44, for instance).   And TV went to the Indian chief image at two in the morning on a lot of channels.  Do any of you remember the phrase:  "This concludes our broadcast day"?   No such thing as cell phones.  NOBODY had a computer, video games, etc.  You wanted to watch a James Bond movie?  Then you had to wait 'til ABC decided to throw one on for the Sunday Night Movie!....

Yes, yes!  I remember "This concludes our broadcast day."     Late night TV was really cool and special in "The Good Old Days."  Especially Friday nights, when a local station would broadcast "Chiller Theater," with all the cheesy, horror and SciFi films, such as the classic crap from American International.  Every once in awhile, I'd be able to fiddle with the antennae late at night and maybe get some far away station, even if it was just the Indian chief image.  Hahaha... wow... the ABC Bond movie broadcasts don't seem that long ago.  That used to be BBQ grilling night for me during the Summer. 

[West of the Rockies]

Oh, yeah, the Chiller movie theater was fun.  I recall a guy down in So Cal named Seymour who wore a gondolier hat and a cape.  I suspect that the "big" Sunday night movie on ABC/CBS went belly up, what, 20 years ago?  I think I probably last saw network TV back in about '96 or so when our local cable provider suddenly did not include local network stations among the list of the gazillion channels we could watch.  I never did see how "Friends" ended.

[NowhereInTime]

I will admit that I am depressed about the never ending growth of the national security apparatus.  When Jim Sensenbrenner is defending Obama's Tap-A-Palooza you know it really is about the powers-that-be doing their usual screw-everybody thing. 
That said, I resent the "Patriot" Act.  I resent it being named the "Patriot Act" - yet another example of conservative doublespeak.  The reason I'm not "throwing rocks" as MV put it is because I really don't think Obama is going to use the info politically.  Naive?  Maybe.  But, Lyndon Johnson aside, the left side isn't in the cloak and dagger business the right always seems to be in. 
As to why the "scandals"  don't resonate?  Conservatives don't get that people don't care if your feathers are ruffled.  You are hateful, greedy, paranoid, duplicitous, and sanctimonious.  So the IRS hassled your tax free exemptions.  You shouldn't get them in the first place.  Still trying to hang Benghazi around Obama's neck?  Spurious linkage, at best.  AP "scandal"?  Acutally undertaken, as was Verizon, with warrants.  People may not like FISA, but they understand warrants.  I don't like it, but I blame you for creating the paranoid "national security" environment in the first place.

[onan]

I will admit that I am depressed about the never ending growth of the national security apparatus.  When Jim Sensenbrenner is defending Obama's Tap-A-Palooza you know it really is about the powers-that-be doing their usual screw-everybody thing. 
That said, I resent the "Patriot" Act.  I resent it being named the "Patriot Act" - yet another example of conservative doublespeak.  The reason I'm not "throwing rocks" as MV put it is because I really don't think Obama is going to use the info politically.  Naive?  Maybe.  But, Lyndon Johnson aside, the left side isn't in the cloak and dagger business the right always seems to be in. 
As to why the "scandals"  don't resonate?  Conservatives don't get that people don't care if your feathers are ruffled.  You are hateful, greedy, paranoid, duplicitous, and sanctimonious.  So the IRS hassled your tax free exemptions.  You shouldn't get them in the first place.  Still trying to hang Benghazi around Obama's neck?  Spurious linkage, at best.  AP "scandal"?  Acutally undertaken, as was Verizon, with warrants.  People may not like FISA, but they understand warrants.  I don't like it, but I blame you for creating the paranoid "national security" environment in the first place.

As much as I want to agree with every word in your post FISA was introduced by Ted Kennedy in in the late 70's. It did have a lot of support by the likes of Strom Thurmond. It was signed by President Carter.


And as much as it pains me, Obama has in my opinion, taken the banner of executive actions with zeal. He did promise us "the most transparent" administration... and we don't have that.


I have stayed out of these arguments due to my sadness over that position. I will gladly state that most of the stuff being bantered is as much mud slinging as factual but wanting all phone records no matter how they white wash it has the stench of state brown shirts.


I was listening to the radio on thursday and I don't have all the details cuz I was driving and discussing patients on my way home. But I distinctly heard a comment that the fourth amendment didn't have probable cause verbage in the amendment. This was on the Thom Hartman program... so I tend to give it some serious consideration.


Anyway, this time, Obama doesn't deserve our support.

[NowhereInTime]

Anyway, this time, Obama doesn't deserve our support.

Very true.

[PB the Deplorable]

... You are hateful, greedy, paranoid, duplicitous, and sanctimonious....

Seriously?  No one is more hateful or full of bile than a Leftist someone disagrees with.  Go down to a 'demonstration' some time if you dare get close, or watch a bit of tape of one.  It starts off with the rally, where speaker after speaker comes out angry shrieking and carrying on, getting the crowd wound up, then off they go to burn, loot, attack the police.  Yeah, it's someone else that's full of hate.

Sanctimonious?   That one is interesting.  The reason the Left and their deluded followers act the way they do is because they've been assured they are always right, and everyone else is evil.  So they have a right - no, an obligation - to act out verbally or violently any way they want.  If that isn't sanctimonious and well beyond, what would be?


Greedy?  Where do the Big Government folks that demand ever more of our money - money that we've worked hard for, but they (and apparently you) seem to think they are entitled to - to expand their little unaccountable empires, buy votes, or simply waste most of it, fall on the Greed Scale?

Duplicitous?  The Left are the ones always lying about their polices and agenda - they know what happens when people find out what they really want.  Their so-called 'scandals' are really just people finding out about some of the back room policies - they aren't 'mistakes' or honest attempts at something that ultimately went the wrong way.  The Conservatives, TEA Party types, Libertarians are pretty clear about telling people their positions on issues - they don't have 'scandals' like this which are really people just finding out what their true policies are.

Paranoid?  Nope, the American people now know much better who the enemy is and what they are up to.  Chalk one up to Obama for that one.


By the way, the Obama scandals are resonating.  They just aren't resonating with the low information voter and flacks that support Obama and the Left no matter what.

[onan]

Seriously?  No one is more hateful or full of bile than a Leftist someone disagrees with.  Go down to a 'demonstration' some time if you dare get close, or watch a bit of tape of one. 

Greedy?  Where do the Big Government folks that demand ever more of our money - money that we've worked hard for, but they (and apparently you) seem to think they are entitled to - to expand their little unaccountable empires, buy votes, or simply waste most of it, fall on the Greed Scale?

It is all a matter pf perception. I have much more consideration for those that have been displaced due to outsourcing than those that outsourced. I have much more sympathy for those working longer hours for less pay than corporate managers that are making 800 times what the average worker gets.


Government is a necessity for social order... how we define that order is certainly open for debate. Is governement too big? in some areas, absolutely. But it is not too large in other areas. Slashing oversite agencies so they are doomed to overlook has done nothing but rot our infrastructure and bankrupt our country.


Is that all republican or conservative? no. But corporations appear to be much more friendly in the overall to those that are willing to shill for them. And much to my disdain that has become bipartisan.

[Histronic Fop]

I suspect that the "big" Sunday night movie on ABC/CBS went belly up, what, 20 years ago?  I think I probably last saw network TV back in about '96 or so when our local cable provider suddenly did not include local network stations among the list of the gazillion channels we could watch.

More like 15 years ago when The X-Files moved to Sunday and really took off.

[Sardondi]

Julian Assange starts making sense: US rule of law suffering 'calamitous collapse' http://www.france24.com/en/20130608-assange-us-rule-law-suffering-calamitous-collapse

Well no shit. But it was only those nutty Tea Partiers who have been saying that for years, so it was okay to ignore them. Nobody minded when it was just their Constitutional rights which were being trampled by the Empire of O. Things are different now.

[PB the Deplorable]

...  So the IRS hassled your tax free exemptions.  You shouldn't get them in the first place...

So if people want to form an organization to advocate and educate on issues important to them and fund it with their own after tax dollars, those donations should be considered Revenue and taxed the same way a 'for profit' company's profits are taxed?  But only if they are considered 'right-wing, of course.  Really?  I realize that was the Administration's thought process, but I never really expected to have someone actually suggest it's proper. 

And meanwhile, the Left wing organizations' tax exempt status requests fly right through the process, and have never even come into question.

If anyone wonders why this happened and what the reasoning for it was behind closed doors, look no further.  And talk about sanctimonious - if we don't like what you have to say, we are going to attack you using the IRS, and you won't be able to form and operate your organization until long after the election is over.  And even then our flacks will suggest we were correct to treat you this way anyway. 

[Sardondi]

It's just such a tragedy they weren't Tea Party members. Because then at least the government would have had them under full surveillance...

[Yorkshire pud]

Seriously?  No one is more hateful or full of bile than a Leftist someone disagrees with.  Go down to a 'demonstration' some time if you dare get close, or watch a bit of tape of one.  It starts off with the rally, where speaker after speaker comes out angry shrieking and carrying on, getting the crowd wound up, then off they go to burn, loot, attack the police.  Yeah, it's someone else that's full of hate.

Sanctimonious?   That one is interesting.  The reason the Left and their deluded followers act the way they do is because they've been assured they are always right, and everyone else is evil.  So they have a right - no, an obligation - to act out verbally or violently any way they want.  If that isn't sanctimonious and well beyond, what would be?


Greedy?  Where do the Big Government folks that demand ever more of our money - money that we've worked hard for, but they (and apparently you) seem to think they are entitled to - to expand their little unaccountable empires, buy votes, or simply waste most of it, fall on the Greed Scale?

Duplicitous?  The Left are the ones always lying about their polices and agenda - they know what happens when people find out what they really want.  Their so-called 'scandals' are really just people finding out about some of the back room policies - they aren't 'mistakes' or honest attempts at something that ultimately went the wrong way.  The Conservatives, TEA Party types, Libertarians are pretty clear about telling people their positions on issues - they don't have 'scandals' like this which are really people just finding out what their true policies are.

Paranoid?  Nope, the American people now know much better who the enemy is and what they are up to.  Chalk one up to Obama for that one.


By the way, the Obama scandals are resonating.  They just aren't resonating with the low information voter and flacks that support Obama and the Left no matter what.

You do cheer me up PB.. Whatever day I've had, you always reassure me I'm not in that bad a way after all. For all the accusations about my political leanings and/or alliances I've had thrown around, I can't rise into a stupor and able to blanket bomb anyone with 'this is what you are, no exceptions' who can't see my view of the world the way you seem to excel.


I do love the dichotomy of this:

the American people now know much better who the enemy is and what they are up to.

with:

They just aren't resonating with the low information voter

Low information? And I've been accused by one on here of being politically correct! Low information? I'd go straight to; uneducated, stupid, willfully ignorant, manipulated...and several other adjectives, but they'll do for now.

[Juan]

I've been thinking about this.  We know that the Obama Administration doesn't pay a lot of attention to data gathering and intelligence information with regard to terrorism.  Just look at the Tsarnaev brothers.  So, there's an argument to be made that they are not gathering this information for "national security."

Why else would it be gathered? We know the administration is interested in politics - particularly winning the House of Representatives in 2014.  Could it be that the information is being gathered, and then news of the gathering leaked simply as a political tactic to try to smother political opposition to the administration in 2014?  Is this the Occam's razor?