Melancholy by music alone

[Sardondi]

I'm talking about songs in which it's the music that gives us a feeling of loss or sadness, not the words.  I started thinking about this when I was trashing the Compendium with a slew of "fire" songs, one of which was Bob Seger's "Fire Lake". I commented that the song always leaves me sad or as if I've lost something. I think it's chiefly the music alone which makes me feel that way. I don't think it's the lyrics, because I don't know that I've ever consciously listened to them. I guess subconsciously I'm aware of what it's about generally, and I can recall a phrase or two of the lyrics which I guess could be about losing. But for the life of me I couldn't write the lyrics out.

So it made me think about music which by itself could be called "nostalgic" music; in which the music alone makes us feel very specific and particularly loss of something. It's likely a combination of key, main theme, arrangement and even the harmonies and backing vocals. I'm looking for that kind of music.

Have any of you ever noticed particular songs in which the music alone does this to you? Again, "torch songs" and literal sad songs with heart-tugging lyrics are disqualified from this discussion. And I'm not talking about broadly "sad" songs. I'm mean something about the music which speaks of loss. I feel inadequate to express what I mean. Or maybe it's just that what I mean is not worth the effort here. I could be wrong, but it seems like there are any number of songs in which a passage just gives me a quick stab to the heart which feels like I just saw a high school girlfriend walking down the street and I had a quick flash of "what might have been." That's the feeling I'm talking about. The songs themselves might not even be about the subject, or even sentimental or nostalgic in any way, but that['s the feeling they can give me.

Also, I realize that critically I'm on very thin ice, since sentimentality and nostalgia get no respect from those who are serious about literature of music. Perhaps all I'm doing is revealing my emotional or critical immaturity, but I know it's a sensation that can be very powerful, and not entirely unpleasant.

I don't even have any good examples right now. Off the top of my head would be "Liebestod" from Tristan und Isolde...
Leontyne Price "Liebestod" Tristan und Isolde

or Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings",
Adagio for Strings (Samuel Barber).

"Bittersweet Symphony" by Verve Pipe probably relies too much on lyrics, but on the other hand, it's supposed to be "bittersweet", and to me it's just sad music. The Verve - Bitter Sweet Symphony

"Lucky Man" by Emerson, Lake and Palmer on the other hand is musically perfect, but the explicit lyrics disqualify it for being far too literal about what I mean. Not to dwell on Bob Seger, but "Hollywood Nights" and "We've Got Tonight" have that perfect feeling, but again, they're lyric driven, and thus disqualified. This isn't coming off well. "Carry Me" by David Crosby, sung by him and Graham Nash leaves me in a puddle, but the lyrics are just too much a part of it. I can't come up with the songs I'm talking about, or maybe the whole concept is just doofus-y. Maybe someone else is more emotionally articulate than I. (Great, so now it'll be me and the other girls, as next we'll discuss favorite scenes from An Affair To Remember.)

[ziznak]

always loved that Verve tune.

[McPhallus]

As a depressive who likes depressing music, I usually need lyrics in order to relate.  But here's a couple of goofy examples:

"The Great Gig in the Sky," partly because of the suggestive title, its context within the album, and the wailing female voices.  It sounds a bit like a funeral dirge.

The piano theme to the "Incredibly Hulk" TV series.  I think it's the sparse notes, the strongly implied feeling of hopelessness, and the fact that it seems to trail off into oblivion.  And during the first few notes, we usually saw Bill Bixby, alone and with nothing but a backpack, walking down the road to some new place he won't be for very long.

[Sardondi]

As a depressive who likes depressing music, I usually need lyrics in order to relate.  But here's a couple of goofy examples:

"The Great Gig in the Sky," partly because of the suggestive title, its context within the album, and the wailing female voices.  It sounds a bit like a funeral dirge.

The piano theme to the "Incredibly Hulk" TV series.  I think it's the sparse notes, the strongly implied feeling of hopelessness, and the fact that it seems to trail off into oblivion.  And during the first few notes, we usually saw Bill Bixby, alone and with nothing but a backpack, walking down the road to some new place he won't be for very long.

I agree with Great Gig. And I read the same thing about the Hulk theme elsewhere (might have been here). I don't know it, but I'll listen.

Oh, many of the songs from Tommy have that wonderful catch-in-the-throat hook or theme, but unfortunately most are heavily lyrical.

[Eddie Coyle]

 
     Pandoras's Box has been opened. Here's an off the top of my head list of evocative songs like the ones Sardondi spoke of: There's so many I will forget. Her it is anyway, with no order, just what comes to mind. I'm excluding instrumentals for now

     Bob Dylan, "If You See Her, Say Hello" Blood On the Tracks, 1975
     The Band   "It Makes No Difference"(live version) The Last Waltz, 1978
      Van Morrison "Astral Weeks"    Astral Weeks, 1968
      Todd Rundgren "Chain Letter"     The Ballad of Todd Rundgren, 1971
      The Move "The Last Thing On My Mind"   Shazam, 1970
       Richard and Linda Thompson  "Just the Motion", Shoot Out The Lights,1982
        Sandy Denny  "Blackwaterside"   Northstar Grassman and the Ravens, 1971
       The Byrds  "Chestnut Mare"  Untitled, 1970
       Neil Young, "Lookout Joe", Tonight's the Night, 1975
      The Kinks  "Celluloid Heroes"  Everybody's in Showbiz, 1972
      Joe South "Games People Play" single, 1968
      The Strawbs "We''ll Meet Again Sometime", single, 1969
       George Harrison "All Things Must Pass"  All Things Must Pass, 1970
       Pentangle "People On The Highway" Solomon's Seal, 1972
        Little Steven "Inside of Me"  Men Without Women ,1982
       Bruce Sprngsteen "Atlantic City"  Nebraska, 1982
        Blood Sweat and Tears "My Days Are Numbered" Child Is Father To the Man" 1968
       Mountain "Theme For An Imaginary Western" ,  Climbing ,1970
       Cactus "My Lady From South of Detroit" Cactus, 1970
        Led Zeppelin "Ten Years Gone"  Physical Grafitti, 1975
        The Who "Sea and Sand"  Quadrophenia, 1973
      Pete Townshend, "Somebody Saved Me"All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes,1982
        Rolling Stones  "Moonlight Mile" Sticky Fingers, 1971
         Rod Stewart "Gasoline Alley"  Gasoline Alley, 1970
         Roy Buchanan "Home Is Where I Lost Her" That's What I'm Here For, 1973
         Queen , Some Day One Day, Queen II 1974
          Black Sabbath "The Thrill of it All"  Sabotage, 1975
           The Allman Brothers "Ain't Wastin Time No More", Eat a Peach ,1972
            Gregg Allman "Queen Of Hearts"  Laid Back, 1973
           John Prine "Angel From Montgomery" John Prine, 1971
           Bonnie Raitt "Nothing Seems To Matter" Give It Up, 1972
           Derek and the Dominos "Anyday"  Layla and Assorted Love Songs, 1970
           David Bowie "Heroes"  Heroes, 1977
           Lou Reed  "Sad Song"  Berlin, 1973
           Jimi Hendrix, "Angel"  Cry of Love, 1971
           Janis Joplin "Get It While You Can"   Pearl, 1971
           The Doors "Hyacinth House"  LA Woman, 1971
           Blue Oyster Cult "In Thee"  Mirrors, 1979
            Stephen Stills "Change Partners"  Stephen Stills 2, 1971
            Little Feat  "Easy to Slip", Sailin Shoes, 1972
           Edgar Winter  "You Were My Light" White Trash, 1971
           
                 Like I said...top of my head, let me think about it. 



     


   

[McPhallus]

      Todd Rundgren "Chain Letter"     The Ballad of Todd Rundgren, 1971
     

Speaking of that album, "Wailing Wall," is a tearjerker that makes my eyes a little misty.  Plus it has that lyrical trick he used to great effect in his heyday where he talks about a topic and then makes it personal.  There's also "Fade Away" on Hermit of Mink Hollow, which seems to speak to loneliness and the passage of time.

[Eddie Coyle]

Speaking of that album, "Wailing Wall," is a tearjerker that makes my eyes a little misty.  Plus it has that lyrical trick he used to great effect in his heyday where he talks about a topic and then makes it personal.  There's also "Fade Away" on Hermit of Mink Hollow, which seems to speak to loneliness and the passage of time.

         It was a toss up, there's easily half a dozen songs from his 1970-79 period that I could have went with, and you named two of them. Pity that "Bang on the Drum" is what radio seems to choose to play from him.

[Sardondi]

Off the top of you head?! I'd hate to see you think about it. Some I notice are dependent on lyrics, but some don't, or even contradict their lyrics.

Just thought of some more: many of the songs in Woody Allen's Radio Days which is a shamelessly nostalgic movie, and one of my absolute favorites. The version he uses of Kurt Weill's "September Song" just about makes me cry every time I hear it. Of course it's placed for maximum effect, with a long, lingering shot of the "home place" in a storm-tossed Rockaway Beach.

Ordinarily I tire easily of Woody Allen. I never understood what the deal was about Annie Hall, and watch his movies today mostly just to see the other actors (except for RD, which I can watch on a loop). Well, I take it back: his nostalgic Bullets Over Broadway is fantastic..but the Wood Man isn't in it, so there's that. Then I also like Manhattan Murder Mystery, and yet another nostalgic wallow-fest, Broadway Danny Rose. Well, and I liked Zelig...and The Front, sort of, and The Jade Scorpion. Another of his I'd probably like more is Midnight In Paris, if Allen didn't spend so much damn time making sure we got it that all all intelligent and cultured persons take it as a given that all Republicans are incredibly stupid and boorish; and how simply wonderful it is of the French to permit the most presentable of us horrid Americans to soil their glorious land with our presence and our money. But I love his choice of music.

...Oh, and BBC's version Of Lou Reed's "Perfect Day". So moving and sad to me....

[Nucky Nolan]

One name: Ennio Morricone. You know the Clint Eastwood movies, but check out sections from the scores of "Once Upon a Time in America" and "Once Upon a Time in the West". Since you posted the theme from "Platoon", the theme from "The Deer Hunter" made a good match for emotional impact. The melancholy theme from "The Thomas Crown Affair" came to mind too.

[ziznak]

HOLY SHIT COYLE... not that im surprised by the list but... yeah... wow.

[Eddie Coyle]

HOLY SHIT COYLE... not that im surprised by the list but... yeah... wow.

I'm too lazy to walk to where I keep my cds(it's nearly 50 feet) so I ended up forgetting quite a few. Early Alzheimer's probably.

[Sardondi]

More about "Perfect Day". The BBC "orchestral" version is a great example of how the arrangement and backing vocals can impart huge emotional resonance to a song. And while I tried to keep lyrics out of this, it just doesn't seem possible - and Reed's lyrics here IMO can go either way: happy/shiny or with that dark undertone. It is by Lou Reed, after all, from a period in his life in which the needle and the spoon took center stage. I can imagine him writing such a balloons-and-laughing-children-in-the-park song only if he'd scored first and was floating among the park's residents. Besides, there are those "You're gonna reap just what you sow" lines. Chilling.

But it's the fantastic orchestral arrangements and the backing close gospel harmonies sung by the Visual Ministry Choir which add just enough flats and sharps and naturals to give it that twinge. Add to it the soaring phrases by Heather Small and Tom Jones, both pulled straight from the gut, and I can actually feel an ache in my heart just to hear the notes.

[The General]

I have no idea what she's singing about. 
Maybe this doesn't fit your definition, but it's what came to mind.
Edith Piaf -La vie en rose with lyrics

[The General]

Taxi Intro

[Mind Flayer Monk]

Barber's Adagio really is depressing.
Good call on the Taxi intro.
Coyle its going to take me a month to get through that list.

I tried to think of a few songs that conveyed a heavy sense of loss.

Here are my entries--one seasonal
Merle Haggard-If We Make It Through December


and one piano
http://youtu.be/S-Xm7s9eGxU

There is some pretty melancholy opera stuff too like that madam butterfly song.

[Juan]

Brazilian music is always saudade.

[Kaiborg]

Awesome thread!

I'm a musician who lives for this stuff.  Excellent list, Coyle.

This is one of my all-time favorites, and possibly the saddest piece of music ever. "Love Theme" from Suicide Club.  It's actually a marvelous movie as well.  Check it out if you haven't.

http://youtu.be/Q1V7OXizEWU

[Treading Water]

I remember having a similar conversation a while ago.  Can't remember which thread.  It was well over a year and a half ago.

Anyway, someone, maybe onan or Agent Orange, said there was a medical condition that caused one to cry over music.  I know I have whatever it was, because I can't get through Barber's Adagio without sobbing. 

And, thanks, Kaiborg...now I'll add that Suicide Club theme to my list.     [I'll still listen.  ]

It's kind of depressing to think that science can explain that reaction away.  I always thought some music was just so beautiful that you were moved to tears by hearing it.

[Sardondi]

....Anyway, someone, maybe onan or Agent Orange, said there was a medical condition that caused one to cry over music.  I know I have whatever it was, because I can't get through Barber's Adagio without sobbing....

It's kind of depressing to think that science can explain that reaction away.  I always thought some music was just so beautiful that you were moved to tears by hearing it.

I don't believe science can explain the reaction away. Oh, some materialists and determinists may think they've explained it, but I've found that with the majority of "scientific studies" which are bruited about in public, the first thing to do is look for the socio-political bias of the sponsor/experimenter: it's almost always there, and the "study" almost always has a massive structural flaw gaping at anyone who cares to look.

As to emotional response to music, the mere fact that members of some societies are moved by music and others not; or that particular music affects people of the same or different societies in very different ways; or that particular people are moved by very different kinds of music from that which moves another person of similar background tells us on its face there is no organic, determinist answer to the question of why we are emotionally affected by music. Which translated means there's no physical collection of cells in the brain which makes us cry over "Malagueña".

It's cultural conditioning as well that mysterious something that makes us unique individuals.

*edit* I just realized something, which hit me out of nowhere and, like far too many things these days, far after a time when it would have done me much good. I was looking at the screen and suddenly thought, apropos of nothing, "Wait, 'The Verve Pipe' didn't do 'Bittersweet Symphony' !" I could argue that the fact both Verve and The Verve Pipe were roughly contemporary 1½-hit wonders who did weepy, self-pitying songs forgives my error, but none of you under 35 made the same mistake, did you? *sigh* Oh the indignity of getting old: self-revealed as both brain-depleted and hopelessly out of step.

[ItsOver]

Two that come to mind are "Walk Away Renee" by The Left Bank and "More than a Feeling" by Boston.  Of course, the lyrics can do the melancholy but just the music alone is enough.  Never realized it until I heard an interview many years after the release with Tom Scholtz that one of his inspirations for "More than a Feeling" came from "Walk Away Renee."

[Sardondi]

Two that come to mind are "Walk Away Renee" by The Left Bank and "More than a Feeling" by Boston....

Ooh, "Walk Away Renée", The Left Banke version, wonderful. Although The Four Tops were okay because anything Levi Stubbs sang with that great gulp and break in his voice was a guaranteed tearjerker, viz "Bernadette". Walk Away was a great one, definite lump in the throat music. That the vocals are almost amateurish makes it all the more genuine sounding. Love that slightly syncopated line by the string bass - duuuum, da dum dum duuuuum, da dum dum duuuum, da dum dum duuuuum, da dum dum duuuuum....

Okay, I know I have no one to blame but myself, but I'm now in a genuine Sunday Funk. I'm pulling a lot of these songs and listenng to them, some for the first time. I'm evening listening to Bonnie Raitt's Nick Of Time and Luck Of The Draw, half of which will have have me seriously thinking about calling old girl friends. Might want to wait until Mrs. Sardondi is doing something else, like taking a trip to Jupiter before I try that one. Maybe I'd feel better if I had a spa day and got a pedi and a Brazilian.

Eddie Coyle, I'm amazed at how much our musical tastes coincide. If not the precise songs, at least many of the same artists. You're just not old enough for most of these. I mean, Mountain? Leslie Fuckin' West?

Okay, seriously, these two Bonnie Raitt albums from over 20 years ago have just got to be expounded on. 1989-1994 was Bonnie's lightning-in-a-bottle time, when everything she touched went eleventy-platinum. Luck Of The Draw and Longing In Their Hearts were, I admit, departures from the blues-heavy slide-guitar songs she specialized in prior to these cds, and the songs here are generally over-produced Top-40 bait for radio stations which aimed to played in offices.

Still, there's plenty to like, and they are are my faves, mostly because they're very adult songs, about persons with histories. Maybe half of the songs have those chords and harmonies which curl my toes in the delicious pain of loss. From LOTD there's "I Can't Make You Love Me", "One Part Be My Lover", "Luck of the Draw", "All at Once". There's a real Celtic influence in some, from Paul Brady and Richard Thompson, which is always a good way to jerk some tears. From LITH there's "You", "Circle Dance", "Storm Warning" and "Shadow of Doubt" which has a traditional delta blues musical and textual theme and sound.

I've left out the most magnificent song of either album, "Dimming of the Day" from LITH is backed by the inimitable writer, Richard Thompson. It deserves its place among the very top of heartbreaking music - without a word these chords and vocals make your heart ache for everything that is gone or can't ever be. When you put in the words too, oh Lord, it's too much to expect a man to stand. Perfect.

[Sardondi]

I've spent the whole day in Downer's Grove, all because I'm wallowing in this music. I think next I'll have to look at music that makes my heart feel like an alligator. Or was that the 300-pound Samoan attorney?

[Eddie Coyle]

Eddie Coyle, I'm amazed at how much our musical tastes coincide. If not the precise songs, at least many of the same artists. You're just not old enough for most of these. I mean, Mountain? Leslie Fuckin' West?

       As an anachronstic child whose tastes have only ossified more into adulthood...actually, the years 1987-1992 were quite the musical redivivus for many long dormant, if not dead artists.(1) The summers of 1987-89 were all major anniversaries for boomers, and lead to many hoary artists returning-especially in '89, which seemed to be the most nostalgia laden summer since..'87. Everybody from the Who to the Airplane to the Allmans to CSNY were out and about (2) The compact disc saw endless opportunity for reissues, and the box set career retrospective, beginning in earnest in November of '85 with Dylan's Biograph, but then really emerging with Clapton's Crossroads in April '88 and probably peaking with Zep's in October 1990. (3) It's become a turgid corpse now, but classic rock radio also was in full bloom in this period. That's BEFORE U2, REM, GNR and Bon Jovi became ahem.."classic rock", and to make room for them? Bye Bye to The Byrds, The Kinks, Yardbirds and others having success between 1964-69 not named Beatles/Stones/Hendrix or Doors.

Mountain, Cactus,Captain Beyond, Focus, Dennis Coffey,Gentle Giant...etc. Bands who never garnered radio play in their heydays, and I honestly have a tough time recalling how I stumbled upon them. Reincarnation? Though Leslie West had the Felix Pappalardi/Cream connection which may have been a subliminal motivator, because I was an EC fanatic(1965-1971 era) as a kid. And Leslie's first post Mountain album from early '75 had one of the most brilliant titles-"The Great Fatsby"

[Nucky Nolan]

I don't believe science can explain the reaction away. Oh, some materialists and determinists may think they've explained it, but I've found that with the majority of "scientific studies" which are bruited about in public, the first thing to do is look for the socio-political bias of the sponsor/experimenter: it's almost always there, and the "study" almost always has a massive structural flaw gaping at anyone who cares to look.

As to emotional response to music, the mere fact that members of some societies are moved by music and others not; or that particular music affects people of the same or different societies in very different ways; or that particular people are moved by very different kinds of music from that which moves another person of similar background tells us on its face there is no organic, determinist answer to the question of why we are emotionally affected by music. Which translated means there's no physical collection of cells in the brain which makes us cry over "Malagueña".

It's cultural conditioning as well that mysterious something that makes us unique individuals.

*edit* I just realized something, which hit me out of nowhere and, like far too many things these days, far after a time when it would have done me much good. I was looking at the screen and suddenly thought, apropos of nothing, "Wait, 'The Verve Pipe' didn't do 'Bittersweet Symphony' !" I could argue that the fact both Verve and The Verve Pipe were roughly contemporary 1½-hit wonders who did weepy, self-pitying songs forgives my error, but none of you under 35 made the same mistake, did you? *sigh* Oh the indignity of getting old: self-revealed as both brain-depleted and hopelessly out of step.

It might be a combination of nature and nurture. Some people are more susceptible to the phenomenon. It's in their genes. Their environments play roles too. Some areas and families are more expressive. They're more apt to demonstrate emotions associated with music that moves them. It's cultural, but, like you think, it's individual too. IMO, there's truth to be found in what all of you said.

I'm moved by some classical and opera selections. I tend to be more moved by instrumental songs than by vocal songs. I find the former to be more apt to affect the melancholy "parts" of my brain. It's hard to remain composed when I watch the start of "Platoon", and I can say the same thing about "The Deer Hunter". I read somewhere that men are more moved by instrumental music than women are. That might be true. It's hard for me to not get verklempt when I listen to the songs listed in my first reply to you. They remind me of varied events and people.

Don't sweat the confusion of Verve and Verve Pipe. I'm of that age group, and I mix up the two sinfully similar names. There "oughtta" be a law! I feel the same way about some girls' names (Britney, etc.) too. 

[ziznak]

When I was much younger I thought (and said) that I wanted this one played at my funeral as I feel the musical nuances seem to mimic each sequential stage of human experience upto death... I have to say I still feel the same way.  one of my fav instrumentals and from a band that truely epitomized REAL music... ya know back when niggas were real n shit.
Metallica - Orion (HD)

edit:
cannot forget this one either... one album before I believe but just as great.
Metallica - The Call of Ktulu (Studio version)

[ziznak]

ah shit and cliff burtons bass solo shit... ah fuck me its an old school metallica night... i should be in the cem drinking stale beer in a patched up denim jacket
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Gi7UtMAcU

had to make another post cause for some reason (sardondi breaking tube links) i couldnt get three links in one post!

[Unquenchable Angst]

The Hollies"The Air That I Breathe"
The Moody Blues ( So much there runs my emotions all over the scale of feelings)
after seeing  Casablanca about 40 times ,I still get teas in my eyes in different pats of it.
"As Time Goes By" Dooley Wilson

[BobGrau]

Mercury Rev - Downs Are Feminine Boces.wmv

[Rachael Nexusei]

The sound of a cello stirs a sadness in me, I don't know why.
The drone of bagpipes can do the same.
And snare drums, too.
I heard a glass armonica played once, and that has a very unearthly quality.
I guess I associate these sounds with something which moved me at some point in my life,
even if I cannot connect them to an exact moment or tune.
I can't think of any one specific piece of music off-hand. 
Lyric-wise it would be easier.

[Sardondi]

Rachel, I hear you, especially about the cello. Man, nothing more than a solo cellist pulling a languid sustenado can turn me into jello. And Unquenchable, "Air That I Breathe" is the perfect kind of music I'm talking about.

And I just thought of another example, where the music alone is sufficient to turn my mind to long ago memories and thoughts of lost opportunity or faded love, or maybe just the simple passage of time. It's "Wise Up" by Aimee Mann. Most folks are probably aware of the song from the 1999 movie, Magnolia. Listening critically I suppose one might hear a painful, honest but perhaps ultimately hopeful message, which can be said about the movie I suppose, although Aimee Mann's song does end with the rather hopeless line, "No, it's not going to stop, So just...give up." Does she mean literally giving up because it's hopeless? Or does she mean resignation? Surrender? Coming to terms? Acceptance? I think it can go both ways.

Whatever she means, to me her voice and the music of the song itself is just sweet but so very painful - the melody, the harmonies, the backing strings and synth, the chords, the progressions, the dissonance and resolution, the tension and release, they all make me ache. (The backing strings in "Wise Up" at spots are very similar to the dominant theme of the soundtrack of Meet Joe Black from 1998.) What I feel listening to "Wise Up" is how it felt when I was 13, or 25 or some age I'll never be again, and how unutterably different life might have been if I'd only done "X", or not done "Y" - if I'd had the courage to tell her what I felt, or if I'd spoken out, or if I'd done what I what I really wanted to do instead of what I felt I was supposed to do.

I know this is just downer, downer stuff, but some music just rips my heart out with bittersweet memories and feelings of loss. Not that I really have anything in particular to make that the center of my life by any means; it's just that this kind of music can just rake my heart with what feels like diamond-sharp claws.