Poll: Where do you stand?

[Pragmier]

Whoa, cowboy. I understand your point, but truly you don't want to push the definition to include positions held, do you? Because we'd be here for weeks recounting similar and considerably worse from side sinister. C'mon, you know that.

Good call and appreciated. 

[BobGrau]

Perhaps I misinterpreted the above as being a wee bit condescending, particularly the need to define ad hominem, as if it were a term I might not be familiar with. Perhaps I leapt to the conclusion that you would only jump to the defense of those that are ideologically aligned with your own thinking, and that your shock at my frothy rancor was a bit, shall we say, disingenuous. Indeed, I may have erred in these conclusions.  Maybe you will enlighten us with a pithy defense of the right of those whose political views might be different than yours to speak out. 


On the other hand, you might just believe that veiled language somehow puts one above the fray, and that blunt and direct language is, a bit too gauche?

He only explained the literal meaning of 'ad hom' because he was subconsciously giving me the set-up for a tasteless joke about 'ad fem' responses. However, I refuse to stoop so low.

[Marc.Knight]

 

[Sardondi]

He only explained the literal meaning of 'ad hom' because he was subconsciously giving me the set-up for a tasteless joke about 'ad fem' responses. However, I refuse to stoop so low.

I hadn't thought about that, but it's pretty good. Plus it's a two-fer because of the "I refuse". Well done.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

No offense, but when it comes to competing with local firms for talent, it's like taking candy from a baby for us ice backs.

This is absolutely true in software development/engineering.  Canada for one,  but certainly for a getting a position at a German company.  Siemens just comes in and takes who they want.
I remember people on their lunch breaks talking about how to get Siemens to notice you and your work during presentations and conventions.

[Nucky Nolan]

Good call and appreciated. 

I thought the same thing about your post. You made some valid and vital points in that post. We should use qualifiers when we refer to most groups of people. There's a lot of unnecessary demonization from both sides.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

There's a lot of unnecessary demonization from both sides.

When your brain first encounters ideas/facts/songs/landscapes/sensations etc
it is an open network where things can pass in and out
imagine it like this:

- -  -  -- - - -  -- - -  -- - -

As you gain more stimulus/facts/info/ the holes fill up and the neurons harden making new incoming info harder to store
so now you are

--------  -----  ----

And at the last statement, you close all the holes. Decision made, hard to reopen the line. Pretty easy to demonize and make us and them arguments after this.

----------------


So the theory goes.

[Nucky Nolan]

Monk, whose theory was that? It's as good as any, I suppose. I just think that the cause of the myriad divisions is more prosaic (and less creative). Humans evolved to identify with their own kind, and they weren't always fair to the other kind(s).

[Mind Flayer Monk]

Monk, whose theory was that? It's as good as any, I suppose. I just think that the cause of the myriad divisions is more prosaic (and less creative). Humans evolved to identify with their own kind, and they weren't always fair to the other kind(s).

Hmmm I'm not sure of the origin. Maybe Jerry Fodor and functionalism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Fodor

I think the specific book is Mind and Modality.
http://www.christopherseddon.com/2009/04/modularity-of-mind-1983-by-jerry-fodor.html

[Nucky Nolan]

Thanks for the info, Monk. I thought that might have been your own theory.

[Pragmier]

I thought the same thing about your post. You made some valid and vital points in that post.

Thank you sir.

And good links there MFM.

[liseski]

left-leaning moderate in my country.
hard left in yours.

and I have only just joined here, but it looks like you have a fine mix of all political stripes.
makes for lively conversation.

[MV/Liberace!]

...it looks like you have a fine mix of all political stripes.
makes for lively conversation.

i think so, too.  glad you're here.

[Falkie2013]

Funny how you're memory plays tricks on you.

All these years I thought I had a copy of the Quickening on my shelf.

I don't.

3 copies of the Source, 1 of the Art of Talk. And no copy of the coming Global Superstorm.

Though they may be buried on shelves in here somewhere.

Go figure.

I bring this up because I was trying to go to sleep and decided to re-read TAOT and saw the part where Art talks about entitlements and says its criminal how little people get and that if it weren't for fraud in the system people would get far more.

I agree with that. I'm hard right fiscally and support our military but I feel we need to do more for those who are disabled and can no longer work and our seniors and returning military who also are disabled either physically or mentally. After every war, we give our military the short end of the stick and its reprehensible.

I have an idea that what the government should do is ELIMINATE all restrictions on income for anyone who gets any form of social security and allow the people to invest their money and make more money for themselves so they can get off disability eventually. The average amount for someone receiving ssi as an example is $ 1200 a month, but I've never known anyone who receives that.

It doesn't help that states like the one I live in have suspended raises on a consistent basis for year when the COLA goes up. If it weren't for that people here would get at least $ 1000 a month instead of $ 866.40. The amount they're alllowed to have in the bank has not gone up since 1988, its $ 2k which can be eaten up in a second by car repairs, or medical expenses not covered by medicaid or medicare.

5 years ago, this state suspended the state's disabled and senior renter's credit program. If it's ever re-instated, they're going to have to pay out millions in interest to pay the people who are owed the money which is about $ 300-400 per recipient.

This state is nuts. They cut funds to the poor while funding free tuition to illegal aliens while working residents struggle to send their kids to college.

And San Francisco is equally nuts. The city faces a pension crisis, yet now pays for free transexual surgery which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Sardondi]

....And San Francisco is equally nuts. The city faces a pension crisis, yet now pays for free transexual surgery which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Which is an example of why California, the most resource-rich of the lower-48 states, and in the past when it had responsible leadership, the richest state, is now literally on the brink of bankruptcy.

[West of the Rockies]

Which is an example of why California, the most resource-rich of the lower-48 states, and in the past when it had responsible leadership, the richest state, is now literally on the brink of bankruptcy.

I don't believe you're correct, Sardondi, regarding California fiscal status.  We've run huge budget deficits for years now (as high as $25 BILLION), but here in 2013, it is projected that the state has a balanced budget and will likely even have a surplus next year.  What I DO find curious is that the state is 49th in spending on its students (K-12).  You'd think a supposedly progressive state might be doing more to fund education.  We're a mix of patches of deep red and blue (politically-speaking).  As a result, we often have major gridlock. 

[Sardondi]

...We've run huge budget deficits for years now (as high as $25 BILLION), but here in 2013, it is projected that the state has a balanced budget and will likely even have a surplus next year....

"Projected balanced budget"? "Surplus"? Come on. I wouldn't be surprised if this "fact" might have appeared someplace - this outright fantasy is routinely published to garble the transmission. But it simply has no relation to reality. California is beginning its death spiral.

[West of the Rockies]

Hi, Sardondi... Here is a quotation from the Huffington Post San Francisco bureau:  SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- After years of cutting education and social services to close deficits, California's budget is finally in balance as long as state lawmakers follow Gov. Jerry Brown's guidance to hold the line on spending, the Legislature's nonpartisan budget analyst said Monday.

Now, if you want to say that the non-partisan analyst is, indeed, partisan, well, then that's certainly your opinion.  If you want to say that the HuffPo is not a credible news agency, that's your right.  But I just wanted you to know that I did not make up the claim.  I enjoy your observations in this forum; I've noticed that we agree on a number of things.  And with our economy being what it is, I'm sure not ready to go dancing in the streets and singing "Happy Days Are Here Again", but the news story I mention offers some suggestion of improvement in matters fiscal in California.

[PB the Deplorable]

Hi, Sardondi... Here is a quotation from the Huffington Post San Francisco bureau:  SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- After years of cutting education and social services to close deficits, California's budget is finally in balance as long as state lawmakers follow Gov. Jerry Brown's guidance to hold the line on spending, the Legislature's nonpartisan budget analyst said Monday.

Now, if you want to say that the non-partisan analyst is, indeed, partisan, well, then that's certainly your opinion.  If you want to say that the HuffPo is not a credible news agency, that's your right.  But I just wanted you to know that I did not make up the claim.  I enjoy your observations in this forum; I've noticed that we agree on a number of things.  And with our economy being what it is, I'm sure not ready to go dancing in the streets and singing "Happy Days Are Here Again", but the news story I mention offers some suggestion of improvement in matters fiscal in California.

Ths accounts only for cash-in receipts and cash-out payments for the year.  What is left out is the unfunded liabilities in the future - the lush pensions, the stupid proposed canals to carry water from North to South, the very stupid 'bullet' train that they are planning - none of that is included in any of this, and there are no plans to pay for it. 

If governments were required to do their accounting on the same GAAP system businesses use, a very very different image would emerge.  Also unremarked on are the very rosy overoptomistic projections for economic recovery - which affects projected tax receipts, and very rosy beyond overoptimistic projections in the return rate on assets held by pension plans - which affect the amount they will have to distribute to retirees with taxpayers covering the shortfalls.

California is in so deep it is difficult if not imposible to see a way out.  (As are many if not most cities, counties, school/fire/water/park/etc districts in California.  So are many other states and cities from what I understand.  So is the Federal government.)

If the unfunded liablitities that are piling up are not being pointed out in these articles and by budget analysts, then yes, they are lying.  By omission.

[Sardondi]

Hi, Sardondi... Here is a quotation from the Huffington Post San Francisco bureau:  SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- After years of cutting education and social services to close deficits, California's budget is finally in balance as long as state lawmakers follow Gov. Jerry Brown's guidance to hold the line on spending, the Legislature's nonpartisan budget analyst said Monday.

Now, if you want to say that the non-partisan analyst is, indeed, partisan, well, then that's certainly your opinion.  If you want to say that the HuffPo is not a credible news agency, that's your right.  But I just wanted you to know that I did not make up the claim.  I enjoy your observations in this forum; I've noticed that we agree on a number of things.  And with our economy being what it is, I'm sure not ready to go dancing in the streets and singing "Happy Days Are Here Again", but the news story I mention offers some suggestion of improvement in matters fiscal in California.

I don't believe you made a thing up. Which is why I was at pains to say I had no doubt such information had been published all over the place. Just as I'm sure there are reports which prove to a moral certainty that Detroit is poised on the brink of a huge economic boom. So of course there's a basis for repeating it: it just doesn't mean it's of necessity true.

[West of the Rockies]

I wish, Sardondi, that the media (true news organizations) did a much, much better job with objective reporting.  I am so sick of "facts" flying from the mouths of every politician and pundit in the nation with very little true fact-checking done by journalists.  And then even our supposedly non-partisan fact-checking outfits (like Politifact) seem to still have something of an agenda and (IMO) make an attempt to balance the number of true/false statements they say the people in power make.

I am sick to death of "he said/she said" journalism!  For example, it is reported that 97% of true climate scientists agree that global warming is real and is very likely caused in large part by humans.  (Please note my qualifying language in the previous statement.)  A news organization like, say, NPR will report said findings.  Then they will go to someone like, for instance, Sarah Palin.  They will have a sound clip of her saying, "Global warming is a bunch of hooey!"  Then the journalist will sign off without any attempt to dig a little deeper and determine who is more likely to be correct (97% of climate scientists or an ex-politician-turned-Tweeter who has a B.S. in sports journalism).  It goes both ways; I could have used an example in which a Democratic politician/pundit offered some unsupported point without being called out by whoever was reporting the story.

Of course, in a perfect world, politicians and pundits would not spin horse-shit claims as though they were fact.  It's a shame that journalists are expected to be the gate-keepers of truth. 

[Juan]

It's a shame that journalists are expected to be the gate-keepers of truth.

Yes, because they are not nearly as well educated nor intelligent as they believe themselves to be. 

[West of the Rockies]

It is curious, isn't it, how we expect someone with a B.S./B.A. in journalism (typically) to go out and report like an expert on all manner of things.  I know that often a journalist is assigned a specific beat or type of story, but it still seems like a tall order for someone with no expertise in various subjects to go out and report on these subjects as though they were experts.  It's not an easy task.

[analog kid]

Hmmm I'm not sure of the origin. Maybe Jerry Fodor and functionalism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Fodor

I think the specific book is Mind and Modality.
http://www.christopherseddon.com/2009/04/modularity-of-mind-1983-by-jerry-fodor.html

This might be relevant

Cognitive Dissonance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Conformation Bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Crimestop
“Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.” --George Orwell, 1984

The last one sounds mean, but could probably apply to a lot of Americans on all side of the aisle.