President Donald J. Trump

[136 or 142]

So the new liberal meme is that the economy will collapse without illegal immigrants? What brilliant think tank came up with this? 48 hours ago this idea didn't exist, now it's gospel being repeated over and over by the left.

I can understand the farming and construction industries being fucked (kind of) but I need more info and perspective before I form an opinion on this one. The fact that it comes across like typical leftist sheep bullshit makes me skeptical but I don't have enough info yet to form a valid opinion.

I hadn't heard this was the new liberal 'meme.'  I wrote this here a couple days ago:

I'd like to point out that network externalities come into play with some of the jobs of illegal aliens.  There are apparently quite a number of construction companies that hire illegal aliens to undercut wage rates, which is shameful (I wonder if Donald Trump knowingly hired a construction company that used illegal aliens?)  however the most common job of the illegal alien is said to be the farm worker, and many farmers say that they take the jobs that those born in the U.S won't take at wages they can afford to pay and still make a profit.


So, without the illegal alien, there would be no guarantee there would be a working farm on the land, meaning all the American farm workers would be out of work as well,  there would be no presumably American truck driver employed to ship the produce.  The produce might be imported instead (maybe from Mexico?)  meaning the money would go out of the country.

You can say that's just corporate propaganda to justify their hiring of illegal aliens, but it's actually a logical extension of the concept of network externalities.

[Stellar]

Trump is x Slumlord research it!

There's an episode in Donald Trump's past that shows just how far this billionaire businessman will go to get his way.
It began in 1981. Trump bought a 14-story building on prime real estate facing New York City's Central Park.
His plan was to tear down the building and replace it with luxury condos. But first he needed a small band of rent-stabilized tenants out of there.
To succeed, Trump played rough, according to lawsuits filed by the tenants. Renters said he cut heat and hot water, and he imposed tough building rules. Trump even proposed sheltering homeless people in the building.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/28/news/trump-apartment-tenants/

Debate bring yours I will bring mine!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEU2TDlZN84

[VtaGeezer]

I'm a social media and analytics obsessive because it's the best predictor of economics. For instance invest in companies like Taser whenever people are sperging out on social media over the cops killing a black kid. What's on peoples' minds predicts the immediate future. A meme is essentially a boiled down idea that's easy to consume. This election and virtually the entire history of propaganda is always boiled down to memes. So noticing in the last 24-48 hours this meme is popping up everywhere gets me curious.

I've come to detest the left's smugness and projection. With the way this meme is being conveyed in the same typical smug "RACIST, SEXIST, XENOPHOBIC, LITERALLY HITLER AND ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS AN IDIOT" tone, I'm instantly skeptical. Also considering how fucking stupid the left is when it comes to economics and money and how their marks buy everything "FREE COLLEGE, UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, MINIMUM WAGE HIKES, THE RICH WILL PAY FOR EVERYTHING" I'm instantly skeptical.

Also the left went from "YOU RACIST BASTARDS" at the mere thought of enforcing immigration laws to now trying to use practical logic which hasn't been their strong suit in awhile when the racism meme failed.

But on the flipside, I can totally see how it would wreck the farming and construction industries. First world nations run on slave labor. Again, I don't have enough info to form a concrete or valid opinion on this.

It won't wreck industries or raise prices in any significant way.  It will take some long overdue adjustment.  Unlike 30 yrs ago, farm workers are rarely illegals today.  Home construction business still gives a lot of illegals cover but nothing like ten years ago in "the bubble".  Illegals are more diffuse in service businesses. Illegal labor doesn't give the consumer lower prices as much as they give the business a huge kick in profit.  Not just from low wages but safety and work conditions.  One of the largest pools of illegal labor is now restaurants and hotels; and we all know how much cheaper a hotel room in LA or a good dinner is now.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

It won't wreck industries or raise prices in any significant way.  It will take some long overdue adjustment.  Unlike 30 yrs ago, farm workers are rarely illegals today.  Home construction business still gives a lot of illegals cover but nothing like ten years ago in "the bubble".  Illegals are more diffuse in service businesses. Illegal labor doesn't give the consumer lower prices as much as they give the business a huge kick in profit.  Not just from low wages but safety and work conditions.  One of the largest pools of illegal labor is now restaurants and hotels; and we all know how much cheaper a hotel room in LA or a good dinner is now.

Hmm... very interesting. So if that profit bubble disappears for the service industry, one would think that would be reflected in prices? At least on a local level. I imagine national conglomerates could absorb? The whole thing is intensely interesting.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

I don't think this is close at all but it's an interesting thing to talk about.

[chefist]

Trump tears apart Cuomo and CNN this morning! Bwahahahaha I love it!

https://youtu.be/a5jNawUj7Js

[GuerrillaUnReal]

Trump tears apart Cuomo and CNN this morning! Bwahahahaha I love it!

https://youtu.be/a5jNawUj7Js

It's uncanny Trump is this good at manipulating media and being entertaining. The guy is a premiere major leaguer in this arena. He shatters every other candidate in this regard. There was some Republican idiot who was salty at Fox a few days ago claiming he won because they gave him two billion in free coverage and exposure. But if this guy is this charismatic and good at pumping the media, how can you not?

But listen to Trump, he's brilliant at this. I'm struggling to think of someone who's been his equal at communicating through the media. Obama is incredible at reciting speeches and he's pretty good off the cuff. But I've never heard anyone this good in interviews and manipulating the media. 

[GravitySucks]

It won't wreck industries or raise prices in any significant way.  It will take some long overdue adjustment.  Unlike 30 yrs ago, farm workers are rarely illegals today.  Home construction business still gives a lot of illegals cover but nothing like ten years ago in "the bubble".  Illegals are more diffuse in service businesses. Illegal labor doesn't give the consumer lower prices as much as they give the business a huge kick in profit.  Not just from low wages but safety and work conditions.  One of the largest pools of illegal labor is now restaurants and hotels; and we all know how much cheaper a hotel room in LA or a good dinner is now.

I maintain the biggest draw for illegal immigrants is not the chance to work for a company that may choose to hire illegals. It is the vast amount of social services and "free stuff" they get once they get to a sanctuary city. It is going to take more resolve than just fining companies that hire illegals, it is going to take the resolve to stop social services from the federal, state and local agencies.

Take away those incentives, and you will see people self-deport while removing the incentives to cross over in the first place.

We don't have to be especially cruel about it. We can say that at the end of the summer, all social services will end to illegal aliens and no illegal aliens will be allowed into the public school systems beginning with the fall semester. Announce that all illegal aliens discovered after September 1st (or pick a date) will be placed on the next flight to their home country with the clothes they are wearing, and they can take any of their immediate or even extended family with them by having them meet ICE at the airport 4 hours before the flight.

Liberal judges will scream about due process and equal protection, but these people are not US Citizens. The Bill of Rights need not apply.

[VtaGeezer]

It's uncanny Trump is this good at manipulating media and being entertaining. The guy is a premiere major leaguer in this arena. He shatters every other candidate in this regard. There was some Republican idiot who was salty at Fox a few days ago claiming he won because they gave him two billion in free coverage and exposure. But if this guy is this charismatic and good at pumping the media, how can you not?

But listen to Trump, he's brilliant at this. I'm struggling to think of someone who's been his equal at communicating through the media. Obama is incredible at reciting speeches and he's pretty good off the cuff. But I've never heard anyone this good in interviews and manipulating the media.

I admire how he takes no crap from the likes of Cuomo, who only has the CNN job because of his name. The media's personal attacks on Trump backfired badly.  But they have nothing else because the only damaging things in his personal and business history are trivial when put under a microscope. 

[136 or 142]

Hmm... very interesting. So if that profit bubble disappears for the service industry, one would think that would be reflected in prices? At least on a local level. I imagine national conglomerates could absorb? The whole thing is intensely interesting.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-thorny-economics-of-illegal-immigration-1454984443

[starrmtn001]

It is not?  Tons of great actors and actresses in that map-cap, hilarious comedy!

Two words.

MEL.  BROOKS. 

[starrmtn001]

I found it noisy, violent, stupid and (almost) completely unfunny.  It had two funny moments early in the film: the sight gag where the dead guy literally rolls over in his grave, and the scene after that where they try and negotiate how much money each person should receive.  After that, it became tedious and each scene went on for far too long.  This and Close Encounters of the Third Kind are by far the two worst movies I've ever seen.

Ah.  You must have seen the Galactic translation remakes.  The aliens didn't like them either.

Um, why do you think they're coming here?

[starrmtn001]

oh.  great.  more of this shit.

Doesn't need to be.    

PRAISE MV! 

[Value Of Pi]

Here's some good insight into how Trump does what he does and why some people go for it while others don't.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/opinion/sunday/trump-truth-and-the-power-of-contradiction.html?_r=0

[136 or 142]

To be sure its based on an unnamed 'source' but it is from a website most right wingers really like and it's obviously consistent with his campaign so far.

This is a serious candidate for President? 

Trump Will Focus on Policy After the Election

May 9, 2016By Taegan Goddard0 Comments
A source familiar with Donald Trump’s thinking told Politico that the billionaire businessman “was reluctant to add new layers of policy experts now, feeling it would only muddy his populist message that has been hyperfocused on illegal immigration, trade and fighting Islamic extremists.”

Said the person: “He doesn’t want to waste time on policy and thinks it would make him less effective on the stump. It won’t be until after he is elected but before he’s inaugurated that he will figure out exactly what he is going to do and who he is going to try to hire.”

[VtaGeezer]

A source familiar with Donald Trump’s thinking...[/b]

"...familar with Trump's thinking".   You bet...like Jeb's advisors. Goddard is former policy adviser to Dem Senator Don Riegle and Republican Governor Lowell Weicker.   Another deep establishment insider's prognostications on someone he more likely has never met.

[chefist]

To be sure its based on an unnamed 'source' but it is from a website most right wingers really like and it's obviously consistent with his campaign so far.

This is a serious candidate for President? 

Said the person: “He doesn’t want to waste time on policy and thinks it would make him less effective on the stump. It won’t be until after he is elected but before he’s inaugurated that he will figure out exactly what he is going to do and who he is going to try to hire.”

Which President gave a detailed plan on what they would do after elected...none...

Pelosi, "We have to pass it in order to read it..."...

[Value Of Pi]

Which President gave a detailed plan on what they would do after elected...none...

Pelosi, "We have to pass it in order to read it..."...

Degrees of obfuscation. Trump is full tilt (as the article I linked above indicates), right out of "Let's Make A Deal."

Monte Hall: Are you sure you won't trade what Vanna's sister Ivanka is holding in her hand for what's in the box? It might be better, it might not be. You won't know unless you make the deal. You're dying to know, aren't you? Let me arrange that.

[albrecht]

To be sure its based on an unnamed 'source' but it is from a website most right wingers really like and it's obviously consistent with his campaign so far.

This is a serious candidate for President? 

Trump Will Focus on Policy After the Election

May 9, 2016By Taegan Goddard0 Comments
A source familiar with Donald Trump’s thinking told Politico that the billionaire businessman “was reluctant to add new layers of policy experts now, feeling it would only muddy his populist message that has been hyperfocused on illegal immigration, trade and fighting Islamic extremists.”

Said the person: “He doesn’t want to waste time on policy and thinks it would make him less effective on the stump. It won’t be until after he is elected but before he’s inaugurated that he will figure out exactly what he is going to do and who he is going to try to hire.”

The beauty of Trump is that he is exposing what most politicians, and the media, having been doing for years. The money game, the promises depending on your audience, the flip-flops based on polling, and lots of shiny mirrors and special effects and "reality" shows and infotainment "news." It is a thing of beauty. He can do what they have been doing for decades and is not effected even if he says something that contradicts an earlier statement.

[21st Century Man]

I think we should declare this upcoming Halloween as Donald Trump Appreciation Day and we can all dress up as Donald Trump.  That includes women, children, and transgenders or as we will call them on this day, transDonalds.  Oh and everyone dressed up can do their business in the men's restroom on that day.

To get you ready for that special day, you can buy this wig from Amazon.




http://www.amazon.com/Businessman-Politician-Wig-Reddish-Blonde/dp/B013TQT85O/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1462833550&sr=8-29&keywords=trump+costume

Inspiration for this idea came from Neal Boortz.  Thanks, Neal.

[136 or 142]

"...familar with Trump's thinking".   You bet...like Jeb's advisors. Goddard is former policy adviser to Dem Senator Don Riegle and Republican Governor Lowell Weicker.   Another deep establishment insider's prognostications on someone he more likely has never met.

Goddard wasn't the source and he didn't even write the article. He runs a political news aggregation site. Somebody at politico wrote the article.

Also, you seem to 'think' you're familiar with Trump's thinking.  Can you please tell us what you discussed in your meeting with him.

[136 or 142]

Which President gave a detailed plan on what they would do after elected...none...

Pelosi, "We have to pass it in order to read it..."...

Totally false.  While I suppose it's debatable how seriously most policy proposals are meant to be taken by a Presidential candidate, especially when Congress will alter whatever they propose, up until Trump every Presidential candidate for a major party has put out detailed policy and announced who their policy advisers.  If nothing else, this gives voters a guide to the philosophy of the candidate and also, more or less, pins a candidate down, so that they can't pretend to be all things to virtually all people as Donald Trump is obviously trying to do on many issues. 

For instance, this is an article on Bill Clinton's economic policy proposal.  I was hoping to find his actual policy book online, but, despite what people some people believe about everything being on the internet, I find that for many things the internet is actually quite ephemeral.  So, not surprisingly even googling 'bill clinton 1992 policy book (and policy booklet)' just brings up a lot of links to books about the 1992 campaign.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/18/us/the-1992-campaign-economic-policy-clinton-proposals-seek-political-middle-ground.html?pagewanted=all

Clinton wants to pull the American economy in the direction of the managed capitalism found in Japan and Western Europe, where governments play a larger role than Washington in shaping industries and markets. And to achieve that transformation, he is offering a bundle of programs, from tax breaks for start-up businesses to a multibillion-dollar agency for commercial research and skills training for all American workers.

In Mr. Clinton's view, the goal of Government is to help create as many high-paying skilled jobs within America as possible. Education policy, tax incentives, subsidies and trade policy should be aimed at insuring that companies, whatever their nationality, place those jobs in the United States.

The Clinton vision is strikingly similar to that of Robert B. Reich, a political economist at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, in his influential book on global economics, "The Work of Nations" (Vintage, 1991). That is not surprising; the two men have been friends since 1968, when they met on an ocean liner while heading to Oxford University as Rhodes scholars.

Indeed, Mr. Clinton's ad hoc group of advisers on economic matters is heavy with people he knew at Georgetown and Oxford universities. Another former Rhodes scholar is Ira Magaziner, a business consultant and author. Derek Shearer, a professor of public policy at Occidental College, met Mr. Clinton at Oxford. Roger C. Altman, a Wall Street investment banker, was a classmate at Georgetown. Mr. Shapiro, also a key economic adviser, met the candidate in 1990 when Mr. Clinton served as chairman of the Democratic Leadership Council.

Because Mr. Clinton's goal is to generate skilled jobs in engineering, computerized manufacturing and other high-technology fields, one of his favorite speech lines is, "Education is economic development."

Some of the most costly programs in Clinton's platform are educational. He plans, for example, to expand Head Start to include all 3- and 4-year-olds, a commitment of roughly $4.5 billion a year. The biggest price tag is for his National Service Trust Fund, a plan for guaranteed college tuition loans that would be repaid with either post-graduation earnings or with two years of public service in areas like teaching, law enforcement or child care. By its sixth year, the college loan program would cost a projected $14 billion a year, only 43 percent of which would be recovered by eliminating the $6 billion-a-year Federal student loan program. Military Technology Model

Mr. Clinton's clearest industrial policy initiative is his recommendation for a multibillion-dollar-a-year civilian version of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or Darpa, a small agency formed in 1958 in the panic after the Soviet Union's launching of Sputnik. Financed from the military budget, Darpa's mission has been to promote military-related technology. But Darpa has also financed research with broad civilian applications, particularly computer technology. Today, many fundamental computer technologies can be traced to Darpa backing.

I'm not sure why the writer didn't write DARPA, but anyway.

To be sure, once Bill Clinton got into office, his first focus became reducing the deficit, but even then, his first budget proposed reducing the deficit, while, at the same time, increasing 'investments' in the economy. 

Other than the attempt to set up a civilian DARPA, which for some reason I don't believe was ever heard about after the election, those were, in fact, many of the economic policies that he pursued in office.

Also, the names mentioned as his economic advisers, were, in fact many of his first senior economic advisers.  The only one who wasn't was Ira Magaziner who was put in charge, along with Hillary Clinton, of working on the the failed health care legislation.

So, no, you're simply wrong.  Is something like this too much to expect from Donald Trump?

[136 or 142]

The article also addressed then candidate Bill Clinton's view on the deficit:

For a Democratic candidate, the handling of the Federal budget deficit is viewed as an important test of economic competence, and Mr. Clinton is adamant in portraying himself as a break with the party's big-spending reputation. Last month, when a group of economists advocated spending $50 billion of Government money quickly to pull the economy out of recession, Mr. Clinton declined to endorse the proposal.

Mr. Clinton proposes to divide the Federal budget into three parts: past, present and future. The past budget would include interest payments on debt and the costs of rescuing the savings and loan industry. The present budget would include current spending on programs like social security and defense. The future budget would be for investment in areas like education, highways and research.

His goal is to curb past and present spending, while doubling the share spent on investment in the future to roughly 18 percent -- based, again, on the premise that spending on things like infrastructure, education and research will improve productivity and thus living standards.

I don't know if the investment spending ever reached 18%, but as I wrote above, that is, in fact, what he proposed in his first budget, and that was what he governed on for his two terms.

Again, Donald Trump is now the nominee of the Republican Party.  If he is a serious candidate he should be able to release a set of policy goals, if not a policy book.

[136 or 142]

The beauty of Trump is that he is exposing what most politicians, and the media, having been doing for years. The money game, the promises depending on your audience, the flip-flops based on polling, and lots of shiny mirrors and special effects and "reality" shows and infotainment "news." It is a thing of beauty. He can do what they have been doing for decades and is not effected even if he says something that contradicts an earlier statement.

He is the most unpopular Presidential candidate in the history of polling.  His enablers in the voting public don't about things like whether something that he says contradicts something that he has previously said, but it would be a mistake to assume that most voters don't.

[Value Of Pi]

The beauty of Trump is that he is exposing what most politicians, and the media, having been doing for years. The money game, the promises depending on your audience, the flip-flops based on polling, and lots of shiny mirrors and special effects and "reality" shows and infotainment "news." It is a thing of beauty. He can do what they have been doing for decades and is not effected even if he says something that contradicts an earlier statement.

He hasn't exposed it, he's just exploited all the cynicism, distrust and anger that our politics has spawned in order to take a massive ego trip. When the election is over, we'll be pretty much where we were, with a collection of politicians who are short on honesty, integrity and competency. Neither of these candidates is capable of changing that situation.

Most Trump voters don't even understand the difference between being good at mocking the system and being good at running and reforming it. They really think that the only tool necessary to fix it is a giant monkey wrench with dyed blond hair. Daddy will take care of everything.

[VtaGeezer]

Goddard wasn't the source and he didn't even write the article. He runs a political news aggregation site. Somebody at politico wrote the article.

Also, you seem to 'think' you're familiar with Trump's thinking.  Can you please tell us what you discussed in your meeting with him.

Goddard's name is on your attribution.  He apparently published it and I assume Politico reported it on their site.  He is a Dem insider as well as a long time Washington insider.  You get all your "truth" about Trump from his enemies. Mostly unnamed.

Have I ever predicted what Trump would do months in the future?  Actually I did, back when I knew only what the media was saying about him. Then I looked into his actual business and personal history and found that 99% of what's reported about Trump is fabricated from a bit taken out of context, or parsed with a scalpel. 

[136 or 142]

Goddard's name is on your attribution.  He apparently published it and I assume Politico reported it on their site.  He is a Dem insider as well as a long time Washington insider.  You get all your "truth" about Trump from his enemies. Mostly unnamed.

Have I ever predicted what Trump would do months in the future?  Actually I did, back when I knew only what the media was saying about him. Then I looked into his actual business and personal history and found that 99% of what's reported about Trump is fabricated from a bit taken out of context, or parsed with a scalpel.

Goddard runs a news aggregation site named politicalwire.com  that is his only connection to this story.

And what sources did you find out the 'real truth' about Trump from?  The only sources that I trust are the ones that quote from source documents, and preferably make those documents available.

I've seen enough of Trump in his speeches and his interviews to know that the people who wrote initially that he is a man with an enormous ego, a pathological liar with zero ethics or morals and will say and do anything to win and that that's how he operated in business and that's how they expected he would operate in politics were telling the truth.  So, to me, that gives everything else they wrote about him more credibility, even if they don't provide the source documents.

Of course, Trump himself has (proudly) admitted that he bought politicians and has also admitted that he's had many affairs.  Though, while it's acknowledged that he has had a few affairs, I personally suspect this may be a false boast of his, much like Saddam Hussein allegedly boasted that he had WMD when in fact he didn't.

[albrecht]

He hasn't exposed it, he's just exploited all the cynicism, distrust and anger that our politics has spawned in order to take a massive ego trip. When the election is over, we'll be pretty much where we were, with a collection of politicians who are short on honesty, integrity and competency. Neither of these candidates is capable of changing that situation.

Most Trump voters don't even understand the difference between being good at mocking the system and being good at running and reforming it. They really think that the only tool necessary to fix it is a giant monkey wrench with dyed blond hair. Daddy will take care of everything.

From a Trump or political perspective Trump's "out-trumping" the DC establish and their fawning news media by using their tactics against them is brillant, and often at times hilarious. How can CNN, Fox, NPR etc complain when he gives them more smoke and mirrors and fireworks than the tripe they often produce? The squirming politicians who accept money from people like Trump, caught tongue-tied when he confronts them on it. How much can he change? Look at all Obama did, even with a Congress against him. Even if half of the Trump promises, often vague, are done I'll be happier that Obama's gone. One recent example I doubt Trump, unlike Obama, would force Section 8 housing or people to rent to people with criminal convictions since the price of real estate goes down to the increased crime. Like Obama's constant war on America and his "“Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing” and "“Small-Area Fair Market Rents” (SAFMR.") So people that work hard so they can live in safe, good neighborhoods will have to subsidies so that poor, unemployed, or criminals can be their neighbors?  I sure Obama will also throw in some "refugees" and illegals into the tax-payer funded housing scheme also. Anything to drag America down and get revenge on the people he so detests.

[starrmtn001]

From a Trump or political perspective Trump's "out-trumping" the DC establish and their fawning news media by using their tactics against them is brillant, and often at times hilarious. How can CNN, Fox, NPR etc complain when he gives them more smoke and mirrors and fireworks than the tripe they often produce? The squirming politicians who accept money from people like Trump, caught tongue-tied when he confronts them on it. How much can he change? Look at all Obama did, even with a Congress against him. Even if half of the Trump promises, often vague, are done I'll be happier that Obama's gone. One recent example I doubt Trump, unlike Obama, would force Section 8 housing or people to rent to people with criminal convictions since the price of real estate goes down to the increased crime. Like Obama's constant war on America and his "“Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing” and "“Small-Area Fair Market Rents” (SAFMR.") So people that work hard so they can live in safe, good neighborhoods will have to subsidies so that poor, unemployed, or criminals can be their neighbors?  I sure Obama will also throw in some "refugees" and illegals into the tax-payer funded housing scheme also. Anything to drag America down and get revenge of the people he so detests.

+ 1!

[Juan]

I wonder how many people participating in the politics section are among those being paid by the Clinton campaign.