Guns

[Kelt]

My take on the gun issue is that any homeowner who doesn't own a firearm in the United States should probably go get one.

The difference between the UK and the US is that in the UK someone who climbs in a window at 3am is probably carrying, at the very worst, a knife.  In the US he's probably carrying a gun.

In order to have parity with the bad guys a Brit needs a big knife or a cricket bat.  In the United States parity demands a gun. 

When I lived in the UK I had a big knife and a cricket bat.  Now that I'm living in the United States I have a Mossberg 500 20 gauge.

Why do I feel the need to have the Mossberg?  Well,  because running downstairs at 3am swinging a cricket bat while my cock flaps out of my pyjamas, while a mighty impressive sight I'm sure, is going to do nothing more than see me shot in the head and my wife and child at the mercy of an intruder with a gun.

You can probably think up numerous scenarios, likely and unlikely, where both my wife and child are killed in the crossfire, or where the intruder is in fact a Decepticon, and my shotgun shells merely rattle off his steely hide, pissing him off and pushing him to annihilate everyone in the house in a psychotic, robo-rage... but the fact of the matter is that if you don't at least have parity with the bad guys then you're at the mercy of the bad guys, and I can think of a lot more realistic scenarios where a bad guy murders my family than you can dream up involving Space robots.

So, under the current climate, I'd say a gun is a necessity for an American, but not a necessity for a Briton.

As for private gun ownership being a means to prevent a mad dictator from taking over the United States... I'm afraid that absolute, unequivocal horseshite.

No 'Evil Dictatorial Madmanâ,,¢' is sweeping into office dressed as Darth Vader, shaking a mighty gloved fist and demanding everyone lay down their arms and, by the way, he's going to eat all your babies.  The removal of freedom comes in increments, under the guise of.. shit... let's call it something like a 'Patriot Act'... where the Constitution can be completely dispensed with if the government decides, hey, you're a terrorist.  Or a suspected terrorist.  Or someone of interest. Or someone who might be of interest. Or someone who knows someone who might be of interest.

Imagine an America where torture is acceptable practice, where you can be arrested without charge, held without trial for an indefinite period, subject to military trial if and when government alone decides, and denied access to legal council?  Imagine an America where neighbours are encouraged to spy on one another*, and foster an atmosphere of suspicion...  where government can spy upon private citizens with no judicial oversight, read your Email, bank statements, library records... imagine an America where government has an absolute right to violate every single constitutional protection and you legally can't do a thing to protect yourself?

Sounds like a suck-ass deal, right... but what good is your gun?

You going to go out and shoot someone?

Who are you going to shoot?

And why haven't you already done so, given the above scenario has already been implemented?

Guns in private hands don't do dick to protect you or your family from government and its abuse of power.



* The TIPS Hotline is offering cash money incentives, BIG PRIZES, to anyone who turns in a neighbour who is subsequently convicted of something or other.  Two Grand American.  A little short of money?  Turn in a neighbour who's 'up to no good'.   That's the spirit.

[someguy]

instead of spending money on a gun how about spending money on bars for your windows and solid doors with proper locks?

[mikuthing01]

I wonder how many BellGabbers carry; which in absence of an object now means in America "to carry a gun".

Glock 19 Gen 4 in a Crossbreed SuperTuck here   

[NowhereInTime]

Why I want guns all the time?

To cap the next goobermint  Nazi type thugs who come knocking on my door to take my 'weirdos' to the gas camber.

Oh me forgets, guns in hands of weirdos, keep goobermint thugs from having absolute power in the first place.

Let's review.

Weirdos with guns = no organized thugs and many innocent victims. Sad but necessary cost.

What an amazing fantasy life you lead. Really.  Goobers with Guns keep "gubmint" in check.  No, because they don't have helicopters, tanks, fighter jets, or drones.  Especially drones.  (By the way, the new 24 has been really good so far!) 

[Cynnie]

Can we just agree to all talk like adults ? No more gooberment and obummer ?
Honestly , this doesn't make me think you're all witty and clever .

[missing transmission]

The number of guns per head and the obsession/pride/mania of guns for all no matter how many massacres makes me deeply reluctant to visit the USA.

Many USA gun owners will no doubt reply to this and say that they have been around guns all their lives and they are paragons of virtue and that I'm casting aspersions on them and a way of life they hold dear.

To be clear, I'm not saying *you* shouldn't own guns, I just don't want to be near people who own them.



--edited for grammar--

[Cynnie]

I own a hunting rifle and a shotgun , last time I fired anything was 3 years ago .
I'm not against guns , I'm against the weapons of war people are collecting nowadays

[PB the Deplorable]

The number of guns per head and the obsession/pride/mania of guns for all no matter how many massacres makes me deeply reluctant to visit the USA.

Many USA gun owners will no doubt reply to this and say that they have been around guns all their lives and they are paragons of virtue and that I'm casting aspersions on them and a way of life they hold dear.

To be clear, I'm not saying *you* shouldn't own guns, I just don't want to be near people who own them.



--edited for grammar--

I was going to tell you people here easily steer clear of 'bad' neighborhoods, etc, and that most normal (non-criminal) folks who own guns leave them at home - but then I read the last part of your post about you simply not wanting to be around people that own them.

You are right, you shouldn't come.  By the way, which country do you live in?

[missing transmission]

You are right, you shouldn't come.  By the way, which country do you live in?

I live in the United Kingdom.

[Kelt]

The number of guns per head and the obsession/pride/mania of guns for all no matter how many massacres makes me deeply reluctant to visit the USA.

Many USA gun owners will no doubt reply to this and say that they have been around guns all their lives and they are paragons of virtue and that I'm casting aspersions on them and a way of life they hold dear.

To be clear, I'm not saying *you* shouldn't own guns, I just don't want to be near people who own them.



--edited for grammar--

You don't want to be around people who own a gun because...?

Excuse me if I'm being dense, but I'm not really sure I understand your logic.

[Jackstar]

I live in the United Kingdom. [...] I just don't want to be near people who own them.

You live near The Queen. She owns a lot of guns.

[missing transmission]

You don't want to be around people who own a gun because...?

Excuse me if I'm being dense, but I'm not really sure I understand your logic.

I don't won't to get shot or be at risk of getting shot.

[Jackstar]

 :

[Kelt]

I don't won't to get shot or be at risk of getting shot.

I see.

So what are your thoughts on being stabbed or raped, because there's a lot of knives and dicks out there too, even in Britain.  Do you just not go outside?

As an aside, I could do significantly more damage to someone with a hunting knife at close range than I could with a .22 at 100 yards. I don't even want to get into the sort of carnage that could occur if I were in full-on rape mode.

Anyway, I'm inferring that you believe that someone with a gun is more likely to 'lose control' than someone with a knife.  I think the statistics from countries like Switzerland and Finland show that gun owners are no more likely to go postal than someone with a knife or a dick.

Your actual problem, if I may be so bold as to suggest this, isn't with guns... it's with Americans who own guns.

Now, framed in THAT sort of logic I would have to agree... Americans are more highly strung and excitable than their European counterparts (I'm speaking from extensive personal experience on both sides of the Atlantic). I'm sure plenty folks will disagree with me, but this is my opinion based on experience among Americans and Europeans. Europeans tend to be more level-headed, Americans are more gung-ho.

I'm generalising, of course.  The world's most level-headed motherfucker might be a gun-owning redneck who lives in rural Texas.

But, in general, Americans need to calm the fuck down.

[Jackstar]

But, in general, Americans need to calm the fuck down.

Fifty years ago, their government was stolen and conquered. In general, Americans need to wake the fuck up.

[Kelt]

Fifty years ago, their government was stolen and conquered. In general, Americans need to wake the fuck up.

Calming the fuck down and waking the fuck up are not mutually exclusive.

[Jackstar]

"Numfar! Dance the Dance of Unification!"

[Kelt]

"Numfar! Dance the Dance of Unification!"

I've no idea what that means, but will tentatively concur pending further investigation.

[Jackstar]

I've no idea what that means, but will tentatively concur pending further investigation.

Angel - Do the Dance of Joy: http://youtu.be/-gWDM4X4xUQ

[NowhereInTime]

Angel was damn good show.

[onan]

I have to contextualize things a bit more than someone owning a gun. I don't want to be around the guy that is packing in his house. I don't want to be around the guys that test out bullet proof vest while wearing them.

But I know lots and lots of people that are the kindest most respectful people you would ever hope to meet and some of them own guns.

I would much rather exclude someone that is always drunk than someone that owns firearms. And if both conditions are met... don't want them around either.

[Jackstar]

I have to contextualize things a bit more

Contextgasm.

I don't want to be around the guy that is packing in his house.

Where else could/should one pack it? If you're saying, "handguns/rifles only at the range, only shotguns & tazers and mini-nuke self-destruct defense-systems at home," I think we can find we have common ground.

I don't want to be around the guys that test out bullet proof vest while wearing them.

I want those people to be my family.

But I know lots and lots of people that are the kindest most respectful people you would ever hope to meet and some of them own guns.

Give me their addresses. I can kindly and respectfully talk them into giving me their guns at an average rate of one gun per three hours. And I don't even have a budget.

I would much rather exclude someone that is always drunk than someone that owns firearms. And if both conditions are met... don't want them around either.

I was the other way on this issue in my youth, but the benefit of a modicum of age, maturity, and wisdom have convinced me of the following: recreational alcohol use needs to be a licenced privilege.

For a moment, ignore the massive social upheaval, and recognize how many problems this one simple change addresses. Recognize.

[onan]

Where else could/should one pack it? If you're saying, "handguns/rifles only at the range, only shotguns & tazers and mini-nuke self-destruct defense-systems at home," I think we can find we have common ground.

I thought that might be bothersome... I should have painted a better picture.

I am wary of the guy that thinks he needs to be holding a firearm when he answers the door, or sights his weapon on passing vehicles.

[PB the Deplorable]

I don't won't to get shot or be at risk of getting shot.

I feel you man.  Every time people around here start to get back to normal after being shot, someone else shots them again.  I don't think I know anyone who wasn't either recently shot or who isn't healing up from being shot.

[missing transmission]

I see.

So what are your thoughts on being stabbed or raped, because there's a lot of knives and dicks out there too, even in Britain.  Do you just not go outside?

As an aside, I could do significantly more damage to someone with a hunting knife at close range than I could with a .22 at 100 yards. I don't even want to get into the sort of carnage that could occur if I were in full-on rape mode.

Anyway, I'm inferring that you believe that someone with a gun is more likely to 'lose control' than someone with a knife.  I think the statistics from countries like Switzerland and Finland show that gun owners are no more likely to go postal than someone with a knife or a dick.

Your actual problem, if I may be so bold as to suggest this, isn't with guns... it's with Americans who own guns.

Now, framed in THAT sort of logic I would have to agree... Americans are more highly strung and excitable than their European counterparts (I'm speaking from extensive personal experience on both sides of the Atlantic). I'm sure plenty folks will disagree with me, but this is my opinion based on experience among Americans and Europeans. Europeans tend to be more level-headed, Americans are more gung-ho.

I'm generalising, of course.  The world's most level-headed motherfucker might be a gun-owning redneck who lives in rural Texas.

But, in general, Americans need to calm the fuck down.

If I met someone who was *really* into knives then I'd probably not want to be around them either. Especially if they explained to me how vital it was to their freedom.

[Jackstar]

I am wary of the guy that thinks he needs to be holding a firearm when he answers the door, or sights his weapon on passing vehicles.

That is a wildly disparate issue, to what end, conflate the two? Take away this hypothetical indivudal's gun, and there will be a knife. Take away the knife? You will be choked with a towel. Take away all guns? This increasingly sympathetic individual really only needs one, strong towel.

how vital it was to their freedom.

It is vital, to have a well-regulated citizens' militia. Thousands of years of human history have established this fact.

[onan]

That is a wildly disparate issue, to what end, conflate the two? Take away this hypothetical indivudal's gun, and there will be a knife. Take away the knife? You will be choked with a towel. Take away all guns? This increasingly sympathetic individual really only needs one, strong towel.

I am not sure what your point is here. I do know a few people that do the very thing I am describing.

[Jackstar]

Well sure, but they're not engaging in that behavior because they have guns. Gun ownership is hardly a causative factor in being a fucking idiot.

[onan]

Well sure, but they're not engaging in that behavior because they have guns.

Of course they are. It may not be the only motivation, but it is certainly part of the dynamic.

[Jackstar]

There's no defending your paranoia. I have guns in the home. I've never once felt the need to pull one out and sight it down at people passing by or approaching my home. What am I, an outlier?