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Read that Art's mother died?

Started by Centurion73, December 24, 2008, 11:42:26 AM

MV/Liberace!

Quote from: Centurion73 on December 26, 2008, 11:09:47 PM
However, I stand by it depends on whom or who you are if a comment will be issued or not.
you can stand by this if you like, but that doesn't make it true.  i am the owner of this website, and evb has publicly chided me about things i've said on this site on multiple occasions.  it kinda throws the entire premise of what you're contending out the window.  she just says what she wants to say about what she wants to say it.  i don't believe your being scolded or seeing your post discussed in any pejorative sense is contingent upon who you are.  if that were the case, evb wouldn't have thrown shit my way on multiple occasions for my comments, and i wouldn't have left her as a moderator.

MV/Liberace!

Quote from: broruss on December 27, 2008, 03:32:06 AM
On the other hand, I think if you are going to have a website where the URL is someone's name followed by "sucks", that suggests it is open season on talk radio hosts...
well said, my friend.

Centurion73

Quote from: Michael Vandeven on December 27, 2008, 11:10:49 AM
you can stand by this if you like, but that doesn't make it true.  i am the owner of this website, and evb has publicly chided me about things i've said on this site on multiple occasions.  it kinda throws the entire premise of what you're contending out the window.  she just says what she wants to say about what she wants to say it.  i don't believe your being scolded or seeing your post discussed in any pejorative sense is contingent upon who you are.  if that were the case, evb wouldn't have thrown shit my way on multiple occasions for my comments, and i wouldn't have left her as a moderator.
I was not the one scolded or chastised for the offending statement, I was only commenting on why comment on that and not some other equally offensive (subjective) statements? I have no problem with EvB and we have talked, however, to think that her post do not carry more wight even if spoken as a non Mod at the time is absurd.With comments like
QuoteErrrr . .  did you ACTUALLY mean to say that out loud?   :-\
&
QuoteJust an FYI for you folks - rumor has it (from a reliable source) that Art has read this site...
what is one to think it was not until several post later that she said it was her opinion, how are we supposed to know when and if she will put on her Mod hat?

What Broruss said was funny and has a history behind it and was not said just to be hurtful that being said, I have no issue with anyone but why look the other way on some comments then?

Quote from: Centurion73 on December 27, 2008, 11:33:46 AM
how are we supposed to know when and if she will put on her Mod hat?

Well there's a few ways of going about doing that. For one, you could check the hat rack at the door. If the Mod hat isn't on it, someone is probably planning on wearing it. But the easiest way, I've found, is to look at her head.

Centurion73

Quote from: Pirate King Atomsk on December 27, 2008, 11:50:42 AM
Well there's a few ways of going about doing that. For one, you could check the hat rack at the door. If the Mod hat isn't on it, someone is probably planning on wearing it. But the easiest way, I've found, is to look at her head.
I picture it more as a jaunty Beret maybe even a Raspberry Beret perhaps.

MV/Liberace!

Quote from: Centurion73 on December 27, 2008, 11:33:46 AM
...however, to think that her post do not carry more weight even if spoken as a non Mod at the time is absurd.
the thing is that any weight evb's words carry, whatever the word "weight" means in this case, is irrelevant.  we have a terms of service.  it's simple and direct.  if a post hasn't broken that TOS, then there is no reason to care what evb or anyone else thinks about that post because it will not be censored or removed.  if it were censored or removed, i would want to know about it. 

i guess my broader point is to ask the question, "why concern yourself what anyone thinks or says about a post outside of a TOS violation?"  let's say just for the purpose of discussion that there are some members who are going to withhold criticism of one another.  so what?  as long as people can say what they want to say (within the loose confines of the TOS) without it being censored or removed outright, i feel like this site has met its obligation to everyone.

and by the way... i saw a comment from someone earlier, don't remember who, which seemed to suggest that it is off limits to criticize art bell or ian punnett on this site.  wtf started the perception of this little unspoken rule?  could someone please fill me in on that?  i'm not aware of any sacred cows here.

EvB

Quoteand by the way... i saw a comment from someone earlier, don't remember who, which seemed to suggest that it is off limits to criticize art bell or ian punnett on this site.  wtf started the perception of this little unspoken rule?  could someone please fill me in on that?  i'm not aware of any sacred cows here.

I think it's simple enough.  Many of our complaints about George (though not all) have to do with the fact that he's just such a freaking LIGHTWEIGHT in comparison to Art - who many of us have referred to as "the MASTER"

As for Ian, I am likely the primary culprit there - since I defend him, often beyond reason, because 1) I enjoy him and don't particularly want my eyes opened to his faults - where Ian is concerned, I'd like to remain blissfully ignorant for the time being. 2) Sometimes - the things that people criticize in Ian are qualities of my own, and that makes me squirm. One person did wisely point out that what I think, do and say in my private life is not quite the same as what a public figure says to a world wide audience - still - it's uncomfortable for me at times.   HOWEVER - I have said and will say again that that does not mean people should refrain from ripping Punnett as many new assholes as they like.   It's just me and my take on it all. And, now that we have a significant contingent of members who are quite critical of Ian (which wasn't relaly the case before - in the past, most were either pro-Ian, indifferant, or blew hot and cold on him) it's even more important that I get used to it.  IT'S MY ISSUE FOLKS - not a board rule of any kind.

That also does not mean I won't still stand up for him from time to time.

EvB

Quote from: Michael Vandeven on December 27, 2008, 11:10:49 AM
you can stand by this if you like, but that doesn't make it true.  i am the owner of this website, and evb has publicly chided me about things i've said on this site on multiple occasions.  it kinda throws the entire premise of what you're contending out the window.  she just says what she wants to say about what she wants to say it.  i don't believe your being scolded or seeing your post discussed in any pejorative sense is contingent upon who you are.  if that were the case, evb wouldn't have thrown shit my way on multiple occasions for my comments, and i wouldn't have left her as a moderator.

I've been thinking about this - and I think there is an issue to consider here.  I want to think it over carefully before posting more - but the short of it is that we are in a growth spurt, with the growth-pangs that go with it.  Part of that has to do with how the newer member perceive the tone of the board, and their experience of other boards - where - as you know - the leaders opinions often hold sway even when it's completely unfair.

More on this soon, when I've taken the time to think and edit - rather than shooting something out of my ass.

EvB

Okay - this is what I've got, so far.

    We like to think that everything?s equal here.  When the board started, that was more or less the case both in reality and perception.  However, in all communication one needs to consider the perception of the hearer/reader and not just the speaker/writer.   I think it?s been made clear that the perception of some readers is that MODs take more control over the flow of dialogue than they do.  Any business 101 class will tell you that when one person expresses an opinion, you have to consider the idea that 100 others feel the same, and just have not bothered to say so.  In terms of our membership ? that number is much too large to apply ? but what about our guests?  That number is growing more and more.  And, some day soon, the site may be big enough for those numbers to apply.   The simple fact of the matter is that if members do not feel they have the right to tell a mod or admin to go pound sand (Within the terms of the TOS ? of course ;-)) then, in function,  if not in fact, they don?t have that right.  That makes them functionally unequal.  That?s not what we want, so what do we do about it?



We?re growing.  What that means is that the people who come now are not necessarily privy to how our board culture has evolved.  The newest posters have never even seen anyone moderated or banned, it happens so rarely ? so how are they to know where that line is?  YES ? the TOS is simple.  That doesn?t mean that newbies get it ? or trust it.  I?ve been bumped from listservs because my opinion was not in sync with the majority, even though the TOS CLEARLY stated ?all opinions are welcome.?  The last time was over something as stupid as the definition of the term ?correction? as applied to training dogs!  (I had the nerve to cite Webster ? and claim part of that definition as my own) As MV says:  ?Sweet Jesus Christ in a Sidecar!? That sort of thing is a very common experience online.   And, tough as we like to talk, it can be a startling, disappointing and even hurtful one ? and least for a short time.   Again, what do we do about it?  We all want to be ourselves.  That?s what makes GNS so much fun.  Fun is a big part of what makes GNS popular.
Thoughts, people? 

Max

back to my post about the TOS being violated.. I was hoping the can of worms would have given away part of the fact I was full of shit.

Perhaps I should have added an extra smiley face or something...

and I was really waiting for evb to say I was full of it :p

EvB

Quote from: Max on December 27, 2008, 04:04:33 PM

Perhaps I should have added an extra smiley face or something...


Sometimes it feels just that silly.  ;:)

Quote from: Max on December 27, 2008, 04:04:33 PM

and I was really waiting for evb to say I was full of it :p

I thought that went without SAYING!   :-X

Quote from: EvB on December 27, 2008, 03:01:38 PM
That?s what makes GNS so much fun.  Fun is a big part of what makes GNS popular.
Thoughts, people?


EvB

Now THERE is an example of people taking Mods way to seriously! :P

Mmmwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahahhaaaaaaaaaaa . .. .

Leave it to our PKA.


puddintame

Quote from: saab93driver on December 24, 2008, 11:01:50 PM
The website now shows Art is doing New Years Eve show.

Yeah.  Two nights.  I don't care for all of the dumb-dumb caller's "predictions" which are made so that the riff-raff can get on the air, but I will welcome Art's style and good sense.

Anyone's loss of their mother is a major big deal for them.  Please, people, give it some thought and respect.
Have you ever lost your mother?  Mine was a total worthless bitch, but I was hurt and cried when she died.

broruss

Quote from: puddintame on December 27, 2008, 10:52:06 PM
Yeah.  Two nights.  I don't care for all of the dumb-dumb caller's "predictions" which are made so that the riff-raff can get on the air, but I will welcome Art's style and good sense.

Anyone's loss of their mother is a major big deal for them.  Please, people, give it some thought and respect.
Have you ever lost your mother?  Mine was a total worthless bitch, but I was hurt and cried when she died.

What period of time has to pass between the time must we speak of the deceased with "thought and respect", and the time that it becomes OK to refer to the deceased as "a worthless bitch"?  It is a matter of years? Months? Days? Hours? I am just trying to get a handle on your very unique concept of etiquette regarding these delicate matters.

EvB

Quote from: broruss on December 28, 2008, 03:48:16 PM
What period of time has to pass between the time must we speak of the deceased with "thought and respect", and the time that it becomes OK to refer to the deceased as "a worthless bitch"?  It is a matter of years? Months? Days? Hours? I am just trying to get a handle on your very unique concept of etiquette regarding these delicate matters.

Well - I wasn't the poster that inspired your question, but I do think there is a difference between someone making negative comments about their own dead to people who are not directly effected, and making a statement about someone who has suffered a loss.

Still, despite how it sounded, I did get your joke. I just had mixed feelings about it- and - my lame replies reflected that mixture and so were hard to "get."

Everyone's time line is different. A month from now my reply would likely have been more like "Oh!  Harsh!" with some symbol of the laughter behind it.

Also - (and please know that I realize there is no real comparison here - it's just where my head went) - your original comment made me think of the posts elsewhere on line, a few years ago, that suggested Art had killed Ramona so that he could get a younger model without the messiness of a divorce.  Now THAT was pretty tacky. and, given the way some of them were written, they could have invited defamation suits.

Your post, on the other hand, was clearly meant in jest.  The timing and tastefulness factor is purely a matter of opinion.

GNS doesn't demand good taste.  You could say we actually discourage it.  :o   And opinions are the stuff GNS is made of.

Centurion73

Quote from: puddintame on December 27, 2008, 10:52:06 PM
Anyone's loss of their mother is a major big deal for them.  Please, people, give it some thought and respect.
Have you ever lost your mother?  Mine was a total worthless bitch, but I was hurt and cried when she died.
Loss of a mother is a "major big deal" for you please do not lump all of us in your reality as it is not a universal ideal. You being hurt and crying does not give you the right to place your values on me or anyone else.

Well, my mom is pretty cool even though sometimes she's a little crazy and if she died I would be heartbroken, but, I tend to deal with that sort of stuff with humor. And whiskey. Well..mostly whiskey. But humor too. Basically, I like black comedy. (No, not Bernie Mac.) So I'm used to making some light out of that which is otherwise morbid. I'm sad to hear Art's mom passed and all but, you know, it's going to happen sometime. Better later than sooner. And Art's a pretty grown dude. My Dad lost his Mom and Dad before he was in his early 30's. I consider Art lucky to have had her for so long.

QuoteLeave it to our PKA.

Yes Ev, this thread was way too serious so I decided to give it some interracial gay AIDS to liven it up. 

Centurion73

Quote from: Pirate King Atomsk on December 28, 2008, 06:08:36 PM
Well, my mom is pretty cool even though sometimes she's a little crazy and if she died I would be heartbroken, but, I tend to deal with that sort of stuff with humor. And whiskey. Well..mostly whiskey. But humor too. Basically, I like black comedy. (No, not Bernie Mac.) So I'm used to making some light out of that which is otherwise morbid. I'm sad to hear Art's mom passed and all but, you know, it's going to happen sometime. Better later than sooner. And Art's a pretty grown dude. My Dad lost his Mom and Dad before he was in his early 30's. I consider Art lucky to have had her for so long.

Dude you said it all right there and very eloquently
QuoteI'm sad to hear Art's mom passed and all but, you know, it's going to happen sometime. Better later than sooner. And Art's a pretty grown dude.

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