20150929 - Steven Starr - Nuclear War - Live Show Chat Thread

[The Coincidence Kid]

The US, UK, and dozens of countries that have bombed Syria, and Iraq before it, should be forced to take in every single one of the refugees. You break it, you buy it.

[scottydawg]

in case you missed it

https://youtu.be/7gpzJ_s3CrE

FINALLY!!!!! My Avatar is in a Video!

[inuk2600]

FINALLY!!!!! My Avatar is in a Video!

You sir, have arrived. And old doc looks about ready to depart.

[albrecht]

The US, UK, and dozens of countries that have bombed Syria, and Iraq before it, should be forced to take in every single one of the refugees. You break it, you buy it.

-send to politics- Many, if not most, of the 'refugees' aren't from Syria (or at least we can't prove they are, or prove their identities also,) most of the refugees are going to countries that haven't bombed Syria, and Assad also bombed Syria- so let him take them.

I enjoyed, though horrible, this show. Scary but interesting stuff.

[Mastodonkey]

Excellent show. Steven was a fantastic guest.

[b_dubb]

Excellent show. Steven was a fantastic guest.

Agreed. An excellent guest. An excellent t show. A terrifying show.

I read an interesting fact about protocols for launch codes during the Cold War. LeMay was so concerned that missile commanders enter launch codes that the codes were pre-entered into the system. The codes were 000000. The fact the missiles weren't launched by mistake or rogue launch illustrates humanity's will to live and maybe evidence for the existence of God.

[JamesMcDonald]

I'm enjoying the show. At least it's something real.

Oh it's very, very real, SciFiAuthor.

[JamesMcDonald]

That is 100% bullcrap! Leftist, Mother Jones revisionism at its finest. If you knew history, you'd understand that the arsenal was ignored for many years, many missiles were becoming obsolete and the strategic advantage had evaporated. Many of our missiles were using extremely outdated guidance technology and were in need of replacement. This is why the MX program, which is so frequently used as a means to try to say Reagan was a "warmonger", was started, in 1971, which obviously predated Reagan by nine years. It wasn't until 1979 though, again, under Carter, that the MX program received federal funding. This had NOTHING to do with Reagan having business ties, or any such nonsense. Your timeline and information is erroneous at best, disingenuous at worst.

Bullshit.  Reagan was a nasty Neocon and we probably came closer to the end of this world under his disgusting years than at any other time in history.

So please, spare me the "leftist" BULLSHIT insults.  I know my history.  I lived through it and I was watching very carefully.  Almost nothing in American history is as strange as this bizarre and stupid trend of people trying to bring back the memory of Reagan as some kind of amazing savior.

He was a terrible president right from the start.  He was a fucking actor, for god's sake!  And he was one of the strongest military-industrial friendly presidents in U.S. history.  He epitomized the concept.

Just another sad reminder of how stupid some Americans are.

[QuantumMystics]

i was gonna say it looks like Jar Jar

Or this guy....

Or maybe this one....

[Hog]

I was stationed at "The Rock" 410th Bombardment Wing SAC/NORAD before everything was clumped into NORTHCOM. We were a heavy hitter Northern tier base deploying mainly BUFF's. I saw quite a few "RedTips" in the W.A.A.S.A.(the Mark 61's & 83's). The BUFFs were bad-assed birds. I loved to watch them come in for landing in a crosswind w/ the BUFF sideways and the LG pointed straight down the Tarmac. Amazing. They just seemed to 'hang' in the air floating.
So Gravity, do I need to Salute you the next time I see you in the threads Sir ?     

Those B-52's are awesome to watch when landing in a cross wind.  Every fixed wing aircraft has to "crab" when landing in a crosswind, then at the last second, hit opposite rudder to straighten out as the wheels touch the runway.  The B-52 would "crab" just like the others, but the pilot didn't need to "decrab" just before touchdown.  These jets had landing gear that would stay  steered inline with the runway, no matter how much the plane was crabbed/yawed in relation to the runway.

Perfect example of the BUFF landing in a crosswind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCUHQ_-l6Qg

Just think that throughout the cold war, there were groups of these jets fully loaded with nuclear weapons circling throughout the Northern hemisphere 24 hours a day 365 days a year.


Routes taken by the B-52s under Operation CHROME DOME in 1966 are pictured below

Pictured is a rack of B28-FI. 
These FI bombs were "Full Fuzing Internal", and were used by the B-52 and B-47's.  These bombs were used in the "laydown" role meaning they are a freefall bomb that is  slowed by a parachute so that it actually "lays down" on the ground before detonation.   The main advantage of the laydown type weapon is that it transmits more of its energy into the ground. Used for hard targets on or below the surface of the Earth.  The "laydown" method of nuke delivery is considered very "dirty" as there is massive amounts of "fallout" because of the vast amounts of now contaminated soil that is blown up into the atmosphere.

A secondary benefit of the "laydown delivery" allows the aircraft deploying the weapon the ability to fly low and still allow sufficient time to escape the blast wave.
The B28-FI comes in 4 flavours:
70 kilotons  3.5 times the yield of Fatman Plutonium weapon dropped of Nagasaki Japan(the "Little  Man" device used Uranium for fission and had a 15 kiloton equivalent TNT yield)
350 kilotons 17 times Fatmans yield
1.1 megatons 52,381 times Fatmans yield
1.45 megatons of equivalent TNT 69,048 times as powerful

The United States most powerful nuclear detonation was 15 megatons of equivalent TNT yield which is 714,286 times more powerful than the Fatman device. This high yield was a mistake as the intended yield was supposed to be 5 megatons. 
60% of the Lithium Deuteride fuel was Lithium-7 isotope which were thought to be inert. Only the Lithium-6 isotope, which made up 40% of the fusion fuel load was supposed to react.  Well it ended up that both Lithium isotopes 6 and 7 attended the party, and coupled with this devices "dirty" Uranium tamper, off nominal winds, lit up with a full 15 megatons equivalent TNT explosion and showered the Marshall Islands and a fishing boat with fallout, causing  fatalities.

Castle Bravo test report from Commander.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFPQmTq18Xw

Large weapons in the multiple megaton range aren't needed as modern delivery systems are so accurate, smaller weapons can be delivered to within feet of a target, instead of miles.
All of the US Intercontinental Ballistic Missile, whether launch from a submarine(SLBM) or from a missile silo are all under 450 kilotons equivalent TNT, with the current SLBM being the Trident II with a CEP(Circular Error Probability) of 300-390ft from a range of 4,200 nautical miles.  The US Trident II uses either the W76 which is a 100 kiloton TNT equivalent yield warhead, or the W88 which is a 475 kiloton TNT equivalent yield warhead.

the Current US land based ICBM is the Minuteman III with a range of 8,200 miles with a CEP of 655 feet. MinuteMan-III uses the W87 warhead with 475 kilotons of TNT equivalent yield.

Current treaties have resulted in only 1 single warhead per missile. The US had systems that could carry 14 warheads per single missile. Multiple warheads per missile is referred to as a MIRV or Multiple Independently Targetable Re-Entry Vehicles).  Since MIRVs are not allowed anymore, I'd guess that along with the single warhead, that there is now multiple decoy warheads in order to defeat anti ballistic missile systems.  But who knows?

peace
Hog

[JamesMcDonald]

Numbers do not lie.

You are absolutely correct, SciFiAuthor.  Numbers do not lie...  but politicians do.

[SciFiAuthor]

You are absolutely correct, SciFiAuthor.  Numbers do not lie...  but politicians do.

I agree completely.

[chefist]

I agree completely.

Salesman, husbands and wives often do! 

[jblank]

Bullshit.  Reagan was a nasty Neocon and we probably came closer to the end of this world under his disgusting years than at any other time in history.

So please, spare me the "leftist" BULLSHIT insults.  I know my history.  I lived through it and I was watching very carefully.  Almost nothing in American history is as strange as this bizarre and stupid trend of people trying to bring back the memory of Reagan as some kind of amazing savior.

He was a terrible president right from the start.  He was a fucking actor, for god's sake!  And he was one of the strongest military-industrial friendly presidents in U.S. history.  He epitomized the concept.

Just another sad reminder of how stupid some Americans are.

You know nothing and you've been corrected on everything you claimed. Just because you say it doesn't make it factually accurate, nor does your version of history represent anything remotely close to the truth. I gave you evidence that proved you wrong and you just don't like it, nor were/are you able to refute any of it. Typical leftist.

[ItsOver]

Agreed. An excellent guest. An excellent t show. A terrifying show.

...The fact the missiles weren't launched by mistake or rogue launch illustrates humanity's will to live and maybe evidence for the existence of God.

Or maybe ET. 

http://www.wired.com/2010/09/tinfoil-tuesdays-ufos-neutered-nukes-air-force-officers-claim/

[JamesMcDonald]

[JamesMcDonald]

You know nothing and you've been corrected on everything you claimed. Just because you say it doesn't make it factually accurate, nor does your version of history represent anything remotely close to the truth. I gave you evidence that proved you wrong and you just don't like it, nor were/are you able to refute any of it. Typical leftist.

I know a lot and I've got no need to even bother arguing with someone as stupid as you.  America took many bad turns under Ronald Reagan's Presidency.  Your lack of intelligence in the matter doesn't change the facts.

And it has nothing to do with left or right.  You strike me as a wrinkly old rightwing neocon asshole who just can't stand it when a smart person calls you out on your delusions.  You probably voted for Bush...  right?  Are you also one of the morons who thinks he did a great job?  Mission Accomplished?  All that bullshit?  And I bet you respect Dick Cheney, right?  Come on, own up.

You want to attack Iran pronto, doncha?  Yeah, I know ya do.

You can call me a "typical leftist" all you want.  Call me whatever you want.  It's all bullshit.  Bullshit from an idiot who is well-brainwashed and stuck in a rut.

If it's any consolation, I think Obama is also a terrible President.  Americans can't seem to elect a good President at all these days.  A good one (like JFK) comes along, and some idiot will just kill him anyway.

Ronald Reagan SUCKED.  He brought the U.S. DOWN, not up.  His legacy is terrible, and even someone with an IQ of 65 like yourself should be able to understand that.  Keep trying.  Maybe read a book or two.  It'll do you good.

[jblank]

With respect........I don't believe you'd know a "fact" on this subject, if it kicked you in the balls. Obvious that you fall into the "I can't defend anything I say with evidence, so I'm just going to lash out at everyone that disagrees with me."

Grow up! Learn history! Avoid commenting on things you know little about!

[Beelzebubbelah]

I think there's a chance for US vs Russian conflict in Syria and that could escalate rapidly.  I don't like the US and Russia operating in the same region. Especially since the US is saying that Russians are targeting anyone who is not pro Assad.l

====================================
'Allo!
With you am i yet..
Yust saw this,i didn't hear the show.
Whilst the discussions of war qualities seem pretty partisan to i,reminders that,one of the features of the neuclear war lobby 'thimk'tank mentality has resulted in the development of miniature,pro-kkapitalist weapons.
Ta Daa!
the 'Enhanced Radiation'ie,"Neutron"bomb.
KKapitalism's finest tool.
Destroyer of life,preserver of inantimated loot.
This terrible kkapitalist tool means the belief that property is the absolute goal of all kkapitalism will result in the actions of psychopathic warriors (like our chicken-hawks whom create policies from an desk in an rural resort)decreeing that all human/animal organisms can be simply cleansed from an desired piece of ground.
looks bad for gaia.
"B_B"

[albrecht]

I know a lot and I've got no need to even bother arguing with someone as stupid as you.  America took many bad turns under Ronald Reagan's Presidency.  Your lack of intelligence in the matter doesn't change the facts.


Ronald Reagan SUCKED.  He brought the U.S. DOWN, not up.  His legacy is terrible, and even someone with an IQ of 65 like yourself should be able to understand that.  Keep trying.  Maybe read a book or two.  It'll do you good.

As someone more "right," at least as some would say, I agree with you on Reagan on some things; and in general. Besides the obvious (amnesty) his legacy started, well not started but furthered, this "unitary executive" and idea that one branch should run things is bad. He also chickened out in Beirut. (Not I like involvement in the area but, still.)  And Rex-84, Inslaw, Iran-Contra, etc are his legacy of bad things; most of all because this idea that the Executive branch can "do what it wants" now finds a champion in this character Obama.

[pate]

As someone more "right," at least as some would say, I agree with you on Reagan on some things; and in general. Besides the obvious (amnesty) his legacy started, well not started but furthered, this "unitary executive" and idea that one branch should run things is bad. He also chickened out in Beirut. (Not I like involvement in the area but, still.)  And Rex-84, Inslaw, Iran-Contra, etc are his legacy of bad things; most of all because this idea that the Executive branch can "do what it wants" now finds a champion in this character Obama.

-<*MOVE TO POLITICS THREAD*>-

Reported...

[nooryisawesome]

The US, UK, and dozens of countries that have bombed Syria, and Iraq before it, should be forced to take in every single one of the refugees. You break it, you buy it.

You realize there was a civil war displacing people before the US was involved. Adding ISIS into the mix just made a bad situation worse.

[b_dubb]

You realize there was a civil war displacing people before the US was involved. Adding ISIS into the mix just made a bad situation worse.

The illegal invasion of Iraq by the US destabilized the region and led to the current crisis in Syria

[jblank]

The illegal invasion of Iraq by the US destabilized the region and led to the current crisis in Syria

That isn't quite accurate. The beginning of the unrest in Syria was a result of the "Arab Spring" protests. Unlike in other nations, Assad refused to step down and eventually, what were peaceful protests, became a violent uprising. ISIS filled a power vacuum and due to the conflict, was able to take territory in their clashes within Syria.

While ISIS was born out of what was Al-Qaida in Iraq, the Iraq war didn't directly destabilize Syria.

[b_dubb]

That isn't quite accurate. The beginning of the unrest in Syria was a result of the "Arab Spring" protests. Unlike in other nations, Assad refused to step down and eventually, what were peaceful protests, became a violent uprising. ISIS filled a power vacuum and due to the conflict, was able to take territory in their clashes within Syria.

While ISIS was born out of what was Al-Qaida in Iraq, the Iraq war didn't directly destabilize Syria.

What preceded the Arab Spring?

[jblank]

What preceded the Arab Spring?

The Arab Winter?!? If you're going to blame the Iraq War, as misguided as it was, for something that started seven or eight years earlier, then you don't know the history behind the Arab Spring. It was born out of protests in Tunisia and had nothing to do with the Iraq War......nothing.

[JamesMcDonald]

"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."

~ Ronald Reagan, such a "funny man"

[b_dubb]

The Arab Winter?!? If you're going to blame the Iraq War, as misguided as it was, for something that started seven or eight years earlier, then you don't know the history behind the Arab Spring. It was born out of protests in Tunisia and had nothing to do with the Iraq War......nothing.

Protests in Tunisia that started with one guy setting himself on fire.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/did-the-iraq-war-bring-the-arab-spring

I'll leave this here and repeat my assertion that removing Sassam from power destabilized the entire region. Feel free to disagree.

[jblank]

I will and I do. There is no correlation between the Iraq War and the Arab Spring....none and The New Yorker can try to make all the leaps and jumps they want, in an effort to connect the dots, but no, there is no connection other than the people involved, are Muslims. Also, I take issue with them labeling the Arab Spring as a positive, because if anything, the power vacuum that was created, from the removal of their so-called "leader", was frequently filled with extremists (see Morsi in Egypt).

I'm well aware of how the protests began and I'm sympathetic with their desire to rid themselves of their perceived masters, but it's an excellent case of "be careful what you wish for....."

[onan]

At least we were greeted as liberators.