Who will be the next President of the United States?

[albrecht]

If 11 million illegals are taken out of the economy, there's no alternate labor source where the labor is needed.  I know you'll use inner city ghetto unemployment as your answer, but they don't grow lettuce or slaughter hogs in S Central or Newark.  Employers would have to offer enough $ to attract labor to distant new regions.  That's expensive. Very expensive.

Some prices, via costs, would rise but currently the 'system', or lack thereof, is simply a way to socialize the costs (crimes, education, healthcare, prison, EBT, schooling, etc) of illegals, and their brood, and privatize the profits (cheap labor, Democratic voters, government program expansion etc.) It still wouldn't be "a $12 head of lettuce" as you claim. I've lived in several countries with far more "socialist" programs and higher taxation and/or controlled immigration; nowhere was lettuce costing $12. But, yes, generally things were more expensive. Then again, jobs like waiters etc were also paid higher and considered actual jobs, long-term. And there is nothing preventing a bracero-style or guest-worker program or having a logical legal immigration program even. Is it even considered a "country" if there is no border?

[SciFiAuthor]

No matter how much some don't like brown or black people taking their jobs, entitlements or their women, it doesn't resonate with a majority of this country.

Hi Onan. Happy Thanksgiving. *slips in the tongue*

There is no divisiveness. That's just an illusion for us little people tossed out as talking points for us to fight about in our stupid fake liberal vs. conservative bullshit tiff. The sad fact is the Republicans want cheap immigrant labor for the corporations and the Democrats want cheap immigrant voters. That's why nothing meaningful ever gets done about the issue. The whole thing is a political scam that ends up being bad for everyone involved, whether you're an immigrant being paid peanuts because you're brown or the regular American losing your job.

To be pro-immigration is to be pro-exploitation and NOTHING else. It long ago ceased to be about actual immigration in the sense of what that issue was 100 years ago. But then again, logic is easily defeated with an emotive speech about the land of opportunity and how we're all immigrants followed by a rousing performance of Neil Diamond's "Coming to America".

[VtaGeezer]

Some prices, via costs, would rise but currently the 'system', or lack thereof, is simply a way to socialize the costs (crimes, education, healthcare, prison, EBT, schooling, etc) of illegals, and their brood, and privatize the profits (cheap labor, Democratic voters, government program expansion etc.) It still wouldn't be "a $12 head of lettuce" as you claim. I've lived in several countries with far more "socialist" programs and higher taxation and/or controlled immigration; nowhere was lettuce costing $12. But, yes, generally things were more expensive. Then again, jobs like waiters etc were also paid higher and considered actual jobs, long-term. And there is nothing preventing a bracero-style or guest-worker program or having a logical legal immigration program even. Is it even considered a "country" if there is no border?

A guest worker program vs assimilated illegals?  What's the point except an attempt to keep Hispanics from becoming permanent?  BTW, I remember seeing "braceros" in the 1950s literally packed into open trucks being transported between orchards in WI when I was a kid.  One of my ugliest memories.  Its indentured labor. 

[CornyCrow]

The fact is, whether anyone likes it or not, the country that the republicans keep talking about doesn't exist. Maybe it never did. The energies spent trying to increase the number of people with even Cruz' mindset is going to continue to fail. Cry gloom and doom all day; it isn't selling.

I think there is a large number of people that want a smaller, more financially responsible government. What they don't want is the perceived devisiveness, real or not, that the current republican brand appears to demonstrate.

No matter how much some don't like brown or black people taking their jobs, entitlements or their women, it doesn't resonate with a majority of this country.

I think those people just don't want undeserving people getting special treatment.  Blacks and browns have proven that they can compete.  They are just as good as anyone else.  People should not define them from the ruckus that seems to rule certain poor neighbourhoods.

[onan]

Hi Onan. Happy Thanksgiving. *slips in the tongue*

There is no divisiveness. That's just an illusion for us little people tossed out as talking points for us to fight about in our stupid fake liberal vs. conservative bullshit tiff. The sad fact is the Republicans want cheap immigrant labor for the corporations and the Democrats want cheap immigrant voters. That's why nothing meaningful ever gets done about the issue. The whole thing is a political scam that ends up being bad for everyone involved, whether you're an immigrant being paid peanuts because you're brown or the regular American losing your job.

To be pro-immigration is to be pro-exploitation and NOTHING else. It long ago ceased to be about actual immigration in the sense of what that issue was 100 years ago. But then again, logic is easily defeated with an emotive speech about the land of opportunity and how we're all immigrants followed by a rousing performance of Neil Diamond's "Coming to America".

Hey man, I think you're right. The divisiveness is another way to help keep us distracted. With most Hispanics, I agree, definitely exploitation.

But to the point, Trump made some statements that definitely pandered to the fear of brown people. Republicans, at least the ones interested at this point see the Hispanic as the job stealer, rather than look at the hiring businesses, and the corporations that send their manufacturing jobs to countries with much cheaper labor and call it good business. And some here, all of a sudden, act like they haven't harbored similar fears.

[Juan]

In one of his books, Trump writes about the negotiating tactic of asking for far more than you want.  Maybe that's what he's doing in his campaign.  I don't know that I like him, but he's certainly interesting to watch.

[albrecht]

A guest worker program vs assimilated illegals?  What's the point except an attempt to keep Hispanics from becoming permanent?  BTW, I remember seeing "braceros" in the 1950s literally packed into open trucks being transported between orchards in WI when I was a kid.  One of my ugliest memories.  Its indentured labor.

But illegal labor and the trafficking etc is ok? It is worse than "indentured labor" which, when it was done legally (often this wasn't the case of course) was a contract for travel/food in exchange for labor for a period of time. And what is this "assimilation" you speak of? Of illegals? But even of others? I have tv and radio stations that have gone all Spanish and sections of town that are all Hispanic. Public schools for their brood in which most of them are not just being taught (or trying to be taught because many are not fluent in their own language and well behind age-wise in education actually) but also provided meals. Not assimilation! I've worked in foreign countries under contracts. Albeit not harvesting sugar beets or picking apples (though I've worked construction etc as a youth) but why would there be a difference? If they want to do that work, we will pay, they go home, and are tracked while here. Even Mexico, hard to believe, has borders and enforces immigration laws (and much, much more brutally than we do and with a lot of sexual and economic exploitation, which is, I guess, what we want to import here?)

[SciFiAuthor]

Hey man, I think you're right. The divisiveness is another way to help keep us distracted. With most Hispanics, I agree, definitely exploitation.

But to the point, Trump made some statements that definitely pandered to the fear of brown people. Republicans, at least the ones interested at this point see the Hispanic as the job stealer, rather than look at the hiring businesses, and the corporations that send their manufacturing jobs to countries with much cheaper labor and call it good business. And some here, all of a sudden, act like they haven't harbored similar fears.

I'm sort of torn on that point. On the one hand, Trump's right, there are people coming up from Mexico that we flat out know nothing about. That in itself is a little scary. But past that, Hispanics aren't bad people. I've known tons of them and there is nothing there that alarms me. Any cultures that appreciate beer, bikini-clad women and partying are fine in my book.

But where I get concerned are two areas. Economics and society. We are not going to be able to employ those 11 million illegals in 20 years and while they might be economically beneficial right now (though I personally don't buy that they are), they will not be for the majority of their lives. The reason for this is technological unemployment which is set to become a really serious problem in the coming decade and only get worse as time goes on from there. There will come a time where there will be no low end jobs for these people, it will all be increasingly automated, and then eventually it will eliminate the middle of the range jobs as well. This is not futurism speaking, this is already happening and starting to snowball as fmr treasury secretary Lawrence Summers has been screaming from the rooftops. We're at the tipping point where technology ceases to create jobs and now begins to destroy them, something Keynes predicted in the 30's.

The other area of concern is the exploitation issue. That's eventually going to evolve into a social issue that we frankly don't need. As it stands, for every illegal that comes in, a young black guy becomes unemployable. It's a sad reality that we just need to admit and we're just setting up the circumstances for more social issues on that front as well as angry Hispanics demanding higher wages.

Trump is the only one up there that will be politically incorrect enough to attempt to get something significant done. Everyone else is status quo, and we'll just keep importing mouths we'll eventually have to feed.

[CornyCrow]

Yep.  The impact on black youth is really a concern.  Whenever they publish that statistic, I think of the illegals.  Initially, Al Sharpton was against illegals because they were stealing jobs, but after some enticements from the Pres. and MSNBC, he became 'enlightened'. 

[onan]

How does one steal a job?

[GuerrillaUnReal]

How does one steal a job?

Show up on time, do a good job and not be hostile?

[onan]

Show up on time, do a good job and not be hostile?

So, that's what I have been doing wrong.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

So, that's what I have been doing wrong.

Same here man, the thought of a straight job brings about the same emotional response in me as imagining Falkie, Kathy and Patty slathered in baby oil having ecstasy fueled marathon sex.

[21st Century Man]

I'm sort of torn on that point. On the one hand, Trump's right, there are people coming up from Mexico that we flat out know nothing about. That in itself is a little scary. But past that, Hispanics aren't bad people. I've known tons of them and there is nothing there that alarms me. Any cultures that appreciate beer, bikini-clad women and partying are fine in my book.

But where I get concerned are two areas. Economics and society. We are not going to be able to employ those 11 million illegals in 20 years and while they might be economically beneficial right now (though I personally don't buy that they are), they will not be for the majority of their lives. The reason for this is technological unemployment which is set to become a really serious problem in the coming decade and only get worse as time goes on from there. There will come a time where there will be no low end jobs for these people, it will all be increasingly automated, and then eventually it will eliminate the middle of the range jobs as well. This is not futurism speaking, this is already happening and starting to snowball as fmr treasury secretary Lawrence Summers has been screaming from the rooftops. We're at the tipping point where technology ceases to create jobs and now begins to destroy them, something Keynes predicted in the 30's.

The other area of concern is the exploitation issue. That's eventually going to evolve into a social issue that we frankly don't need. As it stands, for every illegal that comes in, a young black guy becomes unemployable. It's a sad reality that we just need to admit and we're just setting up the circumstances for more social issues on that front as well as angry Hispanics demanding higher wages.

Trump is the only one up there that will be politically incorrect enough to attempt to get something significant done. Everyone else is status quo, and we'll just keep importing mouths we'll eventually have to feed.

I think the corporations should be punished for hiring illegals. I don't blame illegals for coming here.  Everybody wants a better life for their families.  If we prosecuted the corporations that hired illegals then a lot of the problems would be fixed.  People will register for a visa/green card or whatever and go through the proper channels to become a citizen if they so desire.


I think Trump is extreme in some of his rhetoric but I'm convinced that once he is President, he will take a somewhat softer stand.  I do think we are desperately in need of a President who is his own man and won't pander to the corporatists and the political Establishment.  I really think there are only 3 choices and they are Trump, Carson and Cruz.  Things will not change if anyone besides these 3 are elected. Paul could be added to this short list but he's barely hanging in there and really should emphasize his differences with the Republican leadership.  I think Cruz is un-electable but I like him so who knows.  I do think he is too polarizing and lacks the charm to sway a majority of voters but I could be wrong.  Hillary doesn't exactly have her husband's charisma either.

What I can tell you is that people are sick and tired of business-as-usual in Washington DC.

[VtaGeezer]

"Honest, sweetie, I told the tattoo guy that I wanted a TRAMP stamp"

[pate]

Not Sure why I believe this belongs here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-8UgDUKcOs

[Inglorious Bitch]

Richard Head runs for President.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfuN9HRDVZY

[Juan]

Sandy Berger died.  Now he can't tell what he was stealing from the National Archives.  That's sure to help Hillary.

[albrecht]

Sandy Berger died.  Now he can't tell what he was stealing from the National Archives.  That's sure to help Hillary.

My thoughts exactly. Add another to the long, long list of convenient deaths that benefited the Clintons over the decades.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/sandy-berger-national-security-adviser-216344
""V sad start to day; just learned Sandy Berger passed away during the night," Richard Haass, the president of the Council on Foreign Relations."**

"Berger's legacy was marred, however, when he pleaded guilty in 2005 to removing highly classified documents from the National Archives in Washington the previous year. The inspector general of the National Archives said that a staff member had witnessed the former NSA adviser wrapping the classified documents around his socks and under his pants."

**note that CFR announced his death.
Billary was a member of the CFR and in her good-bye speech said: "I guess, the mother ship in New York City, but it’s good to have an outpost of the Council right here down the street from the State Department. We get a lot of advice from the Council, so this will mean I won’t have as far to go to be told what we should be doing"
http://www.voltairenet.org/article161197.html

[VtaGeezer]

Sandy Berger died.  Now he can't tell what he was stealing from the National Archives.  That's sure to help Hillary.

Since Berger was prosecuted by the Cheney Administration, I doubt much was held back by DOJ that would be damaging to Clinton, Inc.

[albrecht]

Since Berger was prosecuted by the Cheney Administration, I doubt much was held back by DOJ that would be damaging to Clinton, Inc.

Since, from what we know, he destroyed at least 3 copies of the MAAAR (2 copies remained) so it was likely had-written notations or something on them he was told to remove. We also don't know what else he stole, or destroyed, in his feigned bathroom breaks and phone calls. The JD allowed him to plea to misdemeanor charge, and even keep his bar license (even Bill had to forego that due to his previous lying incident.) To deepen the conspiracy one could even imagine he destroyed stuff that would make the Billaries, and the Bush/Cheney, look bad- like a Saudi connection to 911 or fore-knowledge/intelligence that wasn't acting upon.

[21st Century Man]

I think it is pretty clear that Trump is the man for the times that we live in. I've been wavering about who I will support in the primaries but right now I'm pretty sure I will be supporting Trump.

[CornyCrow]

I think it is pretty clear that Trump is the man for the times that we live in. I've been wavering about who I will support in the primaries but right now I'm pretty sure I will be supporting Trump.

Yes.  I was really upset that the news had been spiked regarding the dancing in the streets in New Jersey and glad that Trump stuck to his guns on the issue.  I hate it how the left and the right both gang up on him.  That, in itself, is some kink of endorsement.

[ItsOver]

Yes.  I was really upset that the news had been spiked regarding the dancing in the streets in New Jersey and glad that Trump stuck to his guns on the issue.  I hate it how the left and the right both gang up on him.  That, in itself, is some kink of endorsement.

Yes.  If they're against him, I must be for him.

[whoozit]

Yes.  I was really upset that the news had been spiked regarding the dancing in the streets in New Jersey and glad that Trump stuck to his guns on the issue.  I hate it how the left and the right both gang up on him.  That, in itself, is some kink of endorsement.

I think it is the best kind of endorsement.  He can't be worse than the last two administrations.  He doesn't backtrack on his positions if they are unpopular.   If he sucks vote him out in 4 years.

[VtaGeezer]

He can't be worse than the last two administrations.

You have no idea how incorrect that is.

[ThaJackaL]

I've always voted Democrat... This election I'm voting for Trump. If we're going to hell in a hand basket I'd like the trip to be entertaining. Trump gives us good entertainment. lol

[bateman]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/nh-woman-to-hillary-you-say-rape-accusers-should-be-believed-what-about-your-husbands/

[bateman]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/672390580379459584

He is just as vapid as his beauty pageant contestants. Christ, he has NOTHING SUBSTANTIVE to say whatsoever.

Asked specifics about his conditions for a deal, Trump declined. On whether he would advocate a two-state solution, for example, Trump said he was "not going to even say that."

[area51drone]

He is just as vapid as his beauty pageant contestants. Christ, he has NOTHING SUBSTANTIVE to say whatsoever.

So you'd rather just listen to a bunch of drivel copied directly from the mouths of the left and right wing political machines?  The man is not the idiot the media makes him out to be.   When he speaks, he overall makes sense, but his words are twisted or made to look radical.    I don't really give a shit anymore to be honest.  I HATE what both the right and left have to offer.   Whether or not he gets the nomination, I am voting Trump, and I have my pen ready to write in his name.   I suspect millions will join me, just like with Perot.   So you'll either get Trump or you'll get Hillary, and if it's the latter, I hope you enjoy her.