20150907 – Daivd Paulides - Strange Disappearances - Live Chat Thread

[Pixel Ghost]

Witch one?

Someone named Debbie Anderson.  I know almost nothing about her and I want to know less. 

[WOTR]

I'm with you.  Of course if she turns Jaz into a newt, we'll regret our decision.

Who can tell an Aussie accent from a British one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzYO0joolR0

[jazmunda]

I'm with you.  Of course if she turns Jaz into a newt, we'll regret our decision.

It could only be an improvement. 

[JamesMcDonald]

I repeat, when I asked Paulides point blank if he went to Congress, and Knapp asked  Paulides if he wanted listeners to contact their Congressmen about it.

I gave you his response : "They don't want us to know."

That's the sound a person who's more interested  in exploiting a problem than solving it.

Pure and utter bullshit.  You're completely missing the point of his comment.  What Paulides was trying to say is, the government is conspiring to hide the truth from the public.  Ergo, "they" (the government) don't want "us" (the people) to know.

Bottom line:  What he's trying to say is, this is a matter that needs to come up from the grassroots.  There's no point in crying like babies to the government expecting them to address this issue.  They're in on it!  The people need to address this issue themselves.

Why do so many people (such as yourself) think the government has the answer to every problem out there?!  There isn't a problem the good old government can't fix.

How pathetic.

[Robert]

The one question I felt he avoided that got to me was, well we know how many visit National Parks and how many disappear how does that compare to the North America average. Has anybody else asked these things.

Good to ask -- the Bermuda Triangle analysis.

There are also statistical tools specifically for identifying geographic clusters.

[JamesMcDonald]

No response, Of course, when busted. That's how it goes in the world of selling books.

Virtually 100% of the people in the paranormal, on the subjects of UFOs, ghosts, bigfoot, etc.  sell books.

Even Art Bell has sold books.  Get your self-righteous head out of your ass.

[Dyna-X]

Since the new thread for tonight is not yet up, is anyone having trouble loading the Dark Matter stream through here? http://live.darkmatterdigitalnetwork.com/darkmatter.mp3

[Robert]

This thread?  Reading it now.  Pretty creepy.

Could you please explain to me what's creepy about a wooden stairway in the woods?  Somebody wanted an easier way up & down a slope; so what?

[JamesMcDonald]

Could you please explain to me what's creepy about a wooden stairway in the woods?  Somebody wanted an easier way up & down a slope; so what?

There's a heck of a lot more to that thread than just the bizarre stairway in the middle of nowhere.  Why don't you read the thread before posting?

[Kolchak]

Could you please explain to me what's creepy about a wooden stairway in the woods?  Somebody wanted an easier way up & down a slope; so what?

No sleep is a subreddit for creepy fiction. That's why one of the rules states you cannot comment "out of character" after posting your story.

[Robert]

There's a heck of a lot more to that thread than just the bizarre stairway in the middle of nowhere.  Why don't you read the thread before posting?

Are you saying that something about the context supplied by the rest of the thread makes that para. more significant?

[ZomZom]

Could you please explain to me what's creepy about a wooden stairway in the woods?  Somebody wanted an easier way up & down a slope; so what?

The incongruity of a mundane (and large) object of civilization being found 30-40 miles into the wilderness, plus veteran staff warnings to never go near them would be two reasons why I find them creepy.

It did occur to me that these might have been placed for the utilitarian reason you cited, and photos would help to confirm or deny such a purpose of placement, but when I read that one of them was a spiral staircase from a lighthouse that pushed me further into Creepyville.

[Robert]

The incongruity of a mundane (and large) object of civilization being found 30-40 miles into the wilderness,

Were circumstances such that they looked like they had to have been built in place, rather than moved there?

plus veteran staff warnings to never go near them would be two reasons why I find them creepy.

I suspect "don't go near" = "don't climb on them, because they're rickety".

It did occur to me that these might have been placed for the utilitarian reason you cited, and photos would help to confirm or deny such a purpose of placement, but when I read that one of them was a spiral staircase from a lighthouse that pushed me further into Creepyville.

A spiral staircase is funnier, although it might've been a way to access a tree house, fire observ'n station, etc.  If the spiral staircase was steel, it could've been the remains of a surrounding structure (possibly even a lighthouse if near the coast) that burned or rotted away.

[Gruntled]

Very late here, sorry, but regarding the part about the Green Berets appearance on scene during the search for the missing child.
When Art asked Paulides about who requested their presence, Paulides said he was told [paraphrasing here] "The Green Berets
Do not search for missing persons".
Art seemed to interpret that as it meant that they would never admit they were searching for a missing person. My impression was they weren't. They were there to engage - "out of control, off the grid types" - or others of that ilk - or ? , of which the Park system is aware of.
Paulides, as is his m.o., didn't try to steer Art away from the  'We are not looking for a missing person' wink wink thing.
They [Berets] were telling the truth while omitting the real nature of their mission.

Very disconcerting nonetheless.
Whatever motives Paulides has or has not, this topic has greatly reduced my desire to frolic in the Great Outdoors

[Just Me]

Virtually 100% of the people in the paranormal, on the subjects of UFOs, ghosts, bigfoot, etc.  sell books.

Even Art Bell has sold books.  Get your self-righteous head out of your ass.

Better yet Dave, get your self righteous head out of MY ass

[CornyCrow]

Me, too. And the pause before he says anything, which gave the interview a slightly awkward feel. He also likes to recount stories where people always call him 'Dave'. I don't know why that should bother me as much as it does.

Yes.  The pause after a question is asked and when he does answer the first word is often 'So'.  Does he do this to distance himself from the questioner, I wonder?

[CornyCrow]

He was on a land line.

Though, at times the same pause seemed to have occurred when Ms.Anderson, the Masonic witch, was answering. 

[Uncle Duke]

Very late here, sorry, but regarding the part about the Green Berets appearance on scene during the search for the missing child.
When Art asked Paulides about who requested their presence, Paulides said he was told [paraphrasing here] "The Green Berets
Do not search for missing persons".
Art seemed to interpret that as it meant that they would never admit they were searching for a missing person. My impression was they weren't. They were there to engage - "out of control, off the grid types" - or others of that ilk - or ? , of which the Park system is aware of.
Paulides, as is his m.o., didn't try to steer Art away from the  'We are not looking for a missing person' wink wink thing.
They [Berets] were telling the truth while omitting the real nature of their mission.

Very disconcerting nonetheless.
Whatever motives Paulides has or has not, this topic has greatly reduced my desire to frolic in the Great Outdoors

When listening to Paulides. what he doesn't say and what he infers are frequently more important than what he actually says.  The Green Berets involvement in the Matrin case is a great example of this.  No, the Green Berets were not in the park to engage "out of control, off-the-grid types", you'll note in the photo our friend FightTheFuture posted yesterday the O-5 in command of the Green Beret detachment isn't even wearing a sidearm.  No, that's not the impression Paulides wishes to make, rather he seeks to leave the listener/reader with the idea the Special Forces were there as part of or to protect some dark, sinister force/program responsible for the abduction of a young old boy.  How do we know that?  His subsequent comment about him being told by some guys (note no names/ranks/duty titles provided) Green Berets don't hunt for missing/lost personnel.  Paulides clearly wants to leave the impresssion that, since they could not there to help with the search, their presense can only be explained for some nefarious purpose. What purpose?  So, Paulides doesn't want to speculate on that, he has his reputation to maintain, but it's obvious he wants us to believe whatever that purpose was, the intent wasn't good.  Doesn't matter what the purpose was, along as it was bad, it meets the needs of the story he's telling. (I explained a few nights ago in detail on this thread exactly why the GBs would have been involved in such search as a field exercise, basically they were the best in the world at this type of search in 1969 due to their CSAR responsiblities in SEA.--see below)

http://bellgab.com/index.php/topic,8627.msg502059.html#msg502059

Another example of Paulides' slight of hand in the Martin case is his mention of having submitted a FOIA request  to the "Department of the Army" seeking a copy of the orders sending the detachment to the park.  If we take him at his word such a request was indeed submiited (first time I've heard that claim made in the at least 5-6 times I've heard him tell this story), at best we can deduce he doesn't understand how the FOIA process works.  How do we come to this conclusion?  His request for copies of travel and/or deployment orders should have gone to the headquarters of the unit issuing those orders, not to the Department of Army in Washington DC.  In this case, he should have written Ft Bragg, not the Pentagon.  How would he have know what unit, from where was involved and why?  This information was in the official Park Service report on the Martin case. (see below)  An arguement could be made, however, purposely making a request to the the wrong organization would give him the opportunity to say, "the Army ignored my request", supporting the conspiracy he is alleging, but not speculating on.

http://web.knoxnews.com/pdf/062109martinreport.pdf

I'd like to give Paulides the benefit of the doubt, based for example on his "Department of the Army" request above to simply believe he just doesn't fully understand such things as the "chapter and verse" of how the FOIA process is set up and availed upon.  I saw this in a large number of FOIA requests in my career, and understand it can be a maze to the uninitiated.  Similarly I'd like to think he just doesn't have a full understanding of how federal government organizations are set up and administered, like him admitting after MichaelfromVa's question on air he didn't know the DoI IG could be of any help to him.  Based on the comments of 'gabber "Rob69" (see below) who attended the national SAR conference where Paulides spoke, there is evidense to illustrate a willingness on Paulides' part to speak, seemingly authoratatively, about other areas involved in his research of which he doesn't have a full understanding.

http://bellgab.com/index.php/topic,7327.msg416296.html#msg416296

It's either give him the benefit of the doubt, or accept the premise he's purposely omitting/obfuscating/misdirecting facts to further his own agenda.  I could speculate what that is, but I have a reputation to protect and so will only give examples/facts rather than personal opinions.

[ziznak]

When listening to Paulides. what he doesn't say and what he infers are frequently more important than what he actually says.  The Green Berets involvement in the Matrin case is a great example of this.  No, the Green Berets were not in the park to engage "out of control, off-the-grid types", you'll note in the photo our friend FightTheFuture posted yesterday the O-5 in command of the Green Beret detachment isn't even wearing a sidearm.  No, that's not the impression Paulides wishes to make, rather he seeks to leave the listener/reader with the idea the Special Forces were there as part of or to protect some dark, sinister force/program responsible for the abduction of a young old boy.  How do we know that?  His subsequent comment about him being told by some guys (note no names/ranks/duty titles provided) Green Berets don't hunt for missing/lost personnel.  Paulides clearly wants to leave the impresssion that, since they could not there to help with the search, their presense can only be explained for some nefarious purpose. What purpose?  So, Paulides doesn't want to speculate on that, he has his reputation to maintain, but it's obvious he wants us to believe whatever that purpose was, the intent wasn't good.  Doesn't matter what the purpose was, along as it was bad, it meets the needs of the story he's telling. (I explained a few nights ago in detail on this thread exactly why the GBs would have been involved in such search as a field exercise, basically they were the best in the world at this type of search in 1969 due to their CSAR responsiblities in SEA.--see below)

http://bellgab.com/index.php/topic,8627.msg502059.html#msg502059

Another example of Paulides' slight of hand in the Martin case is his mention of having submitted a FOIA request  to the "Department of the Army" seeking a copy of the orders sending the detachment to the park.  If we take him at his word such a request was indeed submiited (first time I've heard that claim made in the at least 5-6 times I've heard him tell this story), at best we can deduce he doesn't understand how the FOIA process works.  How do we come to this conclusion?  His request for copies of travel and/or deployment orders should have gone to the headquarters of the unit issuing those orders, not to the Department of Army in Washington DC.  In this case, he should have written Ft Bragg, not the Pentagon.  How would he have know what unit, from where was involved and why?  This information was in the official Park Service report on the Martin case. (see below)  An arguement could be made, however, purposely making a request to the the wrong organization would give him the opportunity to say, "the Army ignored my request", supporting the conspiracy he is alleging, but not speculating on.

http://web.knoxnews.com/pdf/062109martinreport.pdf

I'd like to give Paulides the benefit of the doubt, based for example on his "Department of the Army" request above to simply believe he just doesn't fully understand such things as the "chapter and verse" of how the FOIA process is set up and availed upon.  I saw this in a large number of FOIA requests in my career, and understand it can be a maze to the uninitiated.  Similarly I'd like to think he just doesn't have a full understanding of how federal government organizations are set up and administered, like him admitting after MichaelfromVa's question on air he didn't know the DoI IG could be of any help to him.  Based on the comments of 'gabber "Rob69" (see below) who attended the national SAR conference where Paulides spoke, there is evidense to illustrate a willingness on Paulides' part to speak, seemingly authoratatively, about other areas involved in his research of which he doesn't have a full understanding.

http://bellgab.com/index.php/topic,7327.msg416296.html#msg416296

It's either give him the benefit of the doubt, or accept the premise he's purposely omitting/obfuscating/misdirecting facts to further his own agenda.  I could speculate what that is, but I have a reputation to protect and so will only give examples/facts rather than personal opinions.

Reminds me of "negative space" in art.  Sometimes it's not in where the paint or ink are on the page it's in the spaces where the paint or ink are not. 

[Just Me]

When I see Paulides without his sunglasses on, his eyes have that shifty look.

The guy talks a good show but he seems to pat law enforcement on their backs way to much along with the fbi, sars and other organizations that are involved. It's almost like he's trying to cuddle up to support agencies so they will accept him and share information for another talk show, hawking another book.

Then he complains how the agencies are screwed up not sharing information to the victims and his case inquiries. Nothing worse than when someone licks the nuts of supporting actors to toss a book out. Stop with the back pats and talking up agencies in your interviews. It's sickening

There was a guy from Florida called in on farts line who was part of an organization who wanted Paulides to speak and maybe train their contingent of searchers. Paulides tells him to send an email and the guy responds he has sent several but never gets a response. Awkward moment for Paulides.

[Uncle Duke]

When I see Paulides without his sunglasses on, his eyes have that shifty look.

The guy talks a good show but he seems to pat law enforcement on their backs way to much along with the fbi, sars and other organizations that are involved. It's almost like he's trying to cuddle up to support agencies so they will accept him and share information for another talk show, hawking another book.

Then he complains how the agencies are screwed up not sharing information to the victims and his case inquiries. Nothing worse than when someone licks the nuts of supporting actors to toss a book out. Stop with the back pats and talking up agencies in your interviews. It's sickening

There was a guy from Florida called in on farts line who was part of an organization who wanted Paulides to speak and maybe train their contingent of searchers. Paulides tells him to send an email and the guy responds he has sent several but never gets a response. Awkward moment for Paulides.

[/b]

Rob69's post may explain Paulides' reaction to the caller from Florida, he dealt with professionals in the SAR world a few years back and got his head handed to him  He's much more comfortable dealing with people who think this is all part of a conspiracy involving the government, aliens, Bigfoot, etc. 

[Gruntled]

Paulides tactics of obfuscation and implied sinister meanings behind his responses or lack thereof are effective.
I, apparently fell for the "some guys told me the GBs don't look for missing persons" when as Uncle Duke pointed out they excel in that.

U. D. also said D.P.'s intent by that statement was to imply something sinister such as the Green Berets working with the bad guys instead of my first thought was that they were there to track em down.
Either way I thought if they weren't here to find the kid than what were they here for? Nothing good I tell you!!
Paulides may be out to sell books but he sure took the allure of a Park vacation from me.

[Juan Cena]

Reminds me of "negative space" in art.  Sometimes it's not in where the paint or ink are on the page it's in the spaces where the paint or ink are not.

That pretty describes most conspiracy theorists. They spend most of the time trying to make connections that aren't really there.

[FightTheFuture]

Interesting article about Martin case

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/local-news/missing-dennis-martin

Also, here is a photo of Green Beret members preparing to search for Martin child. You'll observe they are carrying no weapons.

[Gruntled]

Interesting article about Martin case

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/local-news/missing-dennis-martin

Also, here is a photo of Green Beret members preparing to search for Martin child. You'll observe they are carrying no weapons.

Thanks for that link.
Interesting

[indigoo]

Interesting article about Martin case

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/local-news/missing-dennis-martin

Also, here is a photo of Green Beret members preparing to search for Martin child. You'll observe they are carrying no weapons.

Just there to help, really.

[b_dubb]

It's either give him the benefit of the doubt, or accept the premise he's purposely omitting/obfuscating/misdirecting facts to further his own agenda.  I could speculate what that is, but I have a reputation to protect and so will only give examples/facts rather than personal opinions.

I salute your commitment to not speculating.  *** civilian salute ***

[nika01]

Pure and utter bullshit.  You're completely missing the point of his comment.  What Paulides was trying to say is, the government is conspiring to hide the truth from the public.  Ergo, "they" (the government) don't want "us" (the people) to know.

Bottom line:  What he's trying to say is, this is a matter that needs to come up from the grassroots.  There's no point in crying like babies to the government expecting them to address this issue.  They're in on it!  The people need to address this issue themselves.

Why do so many people (such as yourself) think the government has the answer to every problem out there?!  There isn't a problem the good old government can't fix.

How pathetic.

Just because you call bullshit dont make it so Jack. His answer about this question was extremely weak. He goes to a congressman to ask about an old case. Gee wow. Why in the hell didnt he go after the core issue of why they wont release things in general?? A more generic solution!!! That would have made sense. Sorry, but Paulides motives remain somewhat of a mystery to me. I personally dont like his evasive tone to questions about his theories about what is going on. Why hasnt he pursued Congress or remote viewers or psychics? I dont know. If I were he, these would be at the top of my list. What appears to be at the top of his list is mystery and book publishing. I have heard him many times, and my alarms go off. This is not to say that I dont believe all the mystery disappearances arent real, or that he hasnt made efforts to investigate. All I am saying....and what the guy you shit on is saying is that he hasnt pursued the obvious as hard as he has pursued book publishing.

[nika01]

There's a heck of a lot more to that thread than just the bizarre stairway in the middle of nowhere.  Why don't you read the thread before posting?

you are just nasty

[JamesMcDonald]

All I am saying....and what the guy you shit on is saying is that he hasnt pursued the obvious as hard as he has pursued book publishing.

So?  He's a writer.  He doesn't claim to be an intrepid anti-government goon.