The Other Side of Midnight - Richard C. Hoagland - Live Chat Thread

[WOTR]

At one point in the not-too-distant past, Hoagland was earning a decent living (well, a living, anyway) giving talks on cruise ships and at conferences.  I am under the impression that a) his overbearing personality and b) his complete unwillingness to cover new ground and change things up a bit has made him persona non grata on the cruise/lecture circuit for some time now. 

I think that his dealings with his producers likely give a hint as to what happened to his circuit.  On cruises he would likely order a drink, and when the waiter would want money would inform the poor sap that he "is one of the featured speakers", and as such should not be subject to opening his wallet.  Take his apparent treatment of those he feels are beneath him, and mix it with a good dose of narcissism and he would probably not be the man you would invite back year after year...

A speaker, even an excellent speaker, can only give the same talk so many times.  Put another way: clever people realise when their act has gone stale and do something new.  At this point in his life, I don't think Hoagland can bring himself to do anything new (he is, after all, 72 years old, an age at which most people have long-since retired).  Therefore, he is stuck in a "career" that consists solely of hustling nickels and dimes from the gullible after everyone else has washed their hands of him, either because they don't care for being talked down to or because Hoagland bores them silly with his fake scientist act that even George Noory, George Noory), grew tired of and ordered removed.

If we were to be fair to Hoaggie, I feel that the split came right around the time that he demanded his extra time on coast from his bet with Noorie, along with signing on with a rival.  If he had not pretty much burned that bridge, I'm sure Noorie would happily have him on flapping his gums for hours so he could leave the studio and get a turfekey sammich.

[CronkitesGhost]

The book publisher is no dummy and while he sees 'Dick' as part con man for the most part he bought into Hoagie's bogus act.

He is a brilliant and glorious myth-maker and a evidence-based scientist at the same.  The Face on Mars is powerful speculative science in an exobiological, archaeo-astronomical context virtually unexplored before him.

To Art Bell (and others) on late-night radio Hoagland was an ex-NASA subcontractor and geniusâ€"and he was, from central casting.  Dick’s brilliant insights and careful analysis of the Martian imaging are real stuff, organized rationally enough that many real geologists, electrical engineers, and astrophysicists have credited him with landmark discoveries.  He was also legitimately selected for a prestigious international award from a science organization: the Angström Medal for Excellence in Science from the Royal Swedish Academy of Science in 1993â€"a silver medallion as the discoverer of a paraphysical energy grid on Mars and other local Solar System planets.  He got the prize for taking the geometric ratios of Cydonia and applied them to planetary bodies with the promise of a source of unlimited free energy in the future while warning of a danger of exploding planets, including our one, that the Earth could go kerflueey at any time.

I don't know why Hoagie just didn't write science fiction books/TV, more lucrative than actual science. He's imaginative and has a solid base of scientific knowledge to create plausible sci-fi.  He probably thinks it's beneath him if he was only regarded as a writer of fiction.

[K_Dubb]

As long as we're psychoanalyzing Hoagie, let me throw another question out there:  his parentage.

None of the stolid, self-reliant Swedes I grew up around would be inclined to pull his kind of stunts.  Norwegians, on the other hand, have a sort of mythological tradition of clever men who live by their wits (cf. Askeladden/Peer Gynt and my own dear, departed uncle who, though pastor of a church of 50 souls, managed to keep a Corvette hidden in his garage), with varying degrees of success.  However, we know he was raised Catholic, suggesting his mother's family came from further south and that she was the dominant cultural force in his home, though I don't remember him saying much about her.  Perhaps she was a Gypsy, or Italian, and those warm southern breezes in his soul periodically stir him to get up and dance.

It's Norway with the tradition of egotistical theorists like Heyerdahl, though I know of one Swedish pseudoscientist who, much to the horror of a legit archaeologist I know over there, was granted permission to excavate around Ales stenar to prove a theory about solar alignments, an arena rife with amateur theorists and frauds.  Personally I don't know why the chance solar alignment should be particularly wonderful; seasonal variation must have been apparent to the first wanderers in the North, and the inclination to mark it somehow by the most obvious means must have occurred to people all over once they settled in a place, probably with simple posts which are long gone.

[CronkitesGhost]

It would almost be "Smokey and The Bandit"-esque. A madcap adventure with an angry southern police forces chasing him, fake paper-plate license plate, and smuggling a dog. With truckers, loyal listeners to C2C and so familiar with RCH, blocking and helping him with their CBs and HAM communications to outwit the sheriff and get his dog back to New Mexico. Various waitresses at roadside cafes and truck stops would give free food and sigh, longingly, at his flowing locks and bolo-ties and his sweet talk about 19.5 and torsion. I would love to take you to dinner my dear but it is "not in the model" at this time as I must out-race Sheriff Roscoe and save my dog!

I so wish I was obscenely wealthy, I would make this movie in a heartbeat.  Hoagie has to play himself, no actor on the face of the earth who could play him better than himself. Has to be a kung fu scene where Hoagie destroys a gang of drug dealing bikers or white supremacists or terrorists on his own. He's the hero everybody has been waiting for.

[starrmtn001]

As long as we're psychoanalyzing Hoagie, let me throw another question out there:  his parentage.

None of the stolid, self-reliant Swedes I grew up around would be inclined to pull his kind of stunts.  Norwegians, on the other hand, have a sort of mythological tradition of clever men who live by their wits (cf. Askeladden/Peer Gynt and my own dear, departed uncle who, though pastor of a church of 50 souls, managed to keep a Corvette hidden in his garage), with varying degrees of success.  However, we know he was raised Catholic, suggesting his mother's family came from further south and that she was the dominant cultural force in his home, though I don't remember him saying much about her.  Perhaps she was a Gypsy, or Italian, and those warm southern breezes in his soul periodically stir him to get up and dance.

It's Norway with the tradition of egotistical theorists like Heyerdahl, though I know of one Swedish pseudoscientist who, much to the horror of a legit archaeologist I know over there, was granted permission to excavate around Ales stenar to prove a theory about solar alignments, an arena rife with amateur theorists and frauds.  Personally I don't know why the chance solar alignment should be particularly wonderful; seasonal variation must have been apparent to the first wanderers in the North, and the inclination to mark it somehow by the most obvious means must have occurred to people all over once they settled in a place, probably with simple posts which are long gone.

I wish maps would show the Norway/Sweden continent in the upright position.

[Dr. MD MD]

As long as we're psychoanalyzing Hoagie, let me throw another question out there:  his parentage.

None of the stolid, self-reliant Swedes I grew up around would be inclined to pull his kind of stunts.  Norwegians, on the other hand, have a sort of mythological tradition of clever men who live by their wits (cf. Askeladden/Peer Gynt and my own dear, departed uncle who, though pastor of a church of 50 souls, managed to keep a Corvette hidden in his garage), with varying degrees of success.  However, we know he was raised Catholic, suggesting his mother's family came from further south and that she was the dominant cultural force in his home, though I don't remember him saying much about her.  Perhaps she was a Gypsy, or Italian, and those warm southern breezes in his soul periodically stir him to get up and dance.

It's Norway with the tradition of egotistical theorists like Heyerdahl, though I know of one Swedish pseudoscientist who, much to the horror of a legit archaeologist I know over there, was granted permission to excavate around Ales stenar to prove a theory about solar alignments, an arena rife with amateur theorists and frauds.  Personally I don't know why the chance solar alignment should be particularly wonderful; seasonal variation must have been apparent to the first wanderers in the North, and the inclination to mark it somehow by the most obvious means must have occurred to people all over once they settled in a place, probably with simple posts which are long gone.

I knew a Swede once. He married into money and to gain citizenship here. He was a nice guy but he didn't strike me as particularly self-reliant. Hoagie's behavior doesn't seem that out of order, genetically speaking.

I remember him showing me an art book and then trying to convince me that the more realistic looking art was objectively better because it more accurately simulated reality. I tried in vain to convince him that while this may have been true at one point in history the invention of the camera has made that ideal patently absurd and created some of the great periods of artistic expression in it's wake. He thought I was being too lofty or something. I thought it was funny but he seemed genuinely slighted by my observation. 

[K_Dubb]

I wish maps would show the Norway/Sweden continent in the upright position.

Now you know the ancient terraformers of this globe intended the Scandinavian peninsula as a giant dong, as seen by passing spaceships.  The ancient Norwegian name for their neighbors, pungenfolk, literally means "people of the scrotum".

[chefist]

Now that Hoagie is on at 9pm-12pm PT, I'll definitely listen more often. He should make last night's cocktail hour a regular feature. 

[damon]

Now that Hoagie is on at 9pm-12pm PT, I'll definitely listen more often. He should make last night's cocktail hour a regular feature. 

ok

[CronkitesGhost]

I think his con man instincts are pure Americana. This country was settled by mostly peasants and low lifes looking for more opportunity than they had in Europe, lots of opportunity and not much law and order made for perfect conditions for those less scrupulous to take advantage of the more vulnerable. His myth-making talent may come from his Norse roots -  Hoagland is Norwegian or Swedish?

[K_Dubb]

I knew a Swede once. He married into money and to gain citizenship here. He was a nice guy but he didn't strike me as particularly self-reliant. Hoagie's behavior doesn't seem that out of order, genetically speaking.

I remember him showing me an art book and then trying to convince me that the more realistic looking art was objectively better because it more accurately simulated reality. I tried in vain to convince him that while this may have been true at one point in history the invention of the camera has made that ideal patently absurd and created some of the great periods of artistic expression in it's wake. He thought I was being too lofty or something. I thought it was funny but he seemed genuinely slighted by my observation. 

Most marriages I've observed more resemble negotiated transactions for mutual benefit than true love-matches.  To establish whether this was a conscious grift on his part, we would need to know whether the bride was fat, ugly, or both.

As far as your friend's foray into art criticism, yes, that is the classic myopic gaze of the potato-farmer or pig-herder.  I bet his eyes were either too close together, or too far apart.  To your point, though, I'd argue the need to distinguish deliberate abstraction, with a solid realistic technique behind it, from that born out of its deficiency.

[K_Dubb]

I think his con man instincts are pure Americana. This country was settled by mostly peasants and low lifes looking for more opportunity than they had in Europe, lots of opportunity and not much law and order made for perfect conditions for those less scrupulous to take advantage of the more vulnerable. His myth-making talent may come from his Norse roots -  Hoagland is Norwegian or Swedish?

Swedish, and I don't know if his insistence that ancient Martians were humans like us is myth-making or euhemerism.  Though to be sure the latter also has a long history among the Norse, as far back as Snorri.

[starrmtn001]

Now you know the ancient terraformers of this globe intended the Scandinavian peninsula as a giant dong, as seen by passing spaceships.  The ancient Norwegian name for their neighbors, pungenfolk, literally means "people of the scrotum".

Hmmmm.  Transpermia has got to figure in there somewhere.

[starrmtn001]

Now that Hoagie is on at 9pm-12pm PT, I'll definitely listen more often. He should make last night's cocktail hour a regular feature. 

What time he is on tonight was my next question.  Thank you Chefist.  

I agree.  A Hoagy Happy Hour would be great as a regular feature, indeed!

[Dr. MD MD]

Most marriages I've observed more resemble negotiated transactions for mutual benefit than true love-matches.  To establish whether this was a conscious grift on his part, we would need to know whether the bride was fat, ugly, or both.

As far as your friend's foray into art criticism, yes, that is the classic myopic gaze of the potato-farmer or pig-herder.  I bet his eyes were either too close together, or too far apart.  To your point, though, I'd argue the need to distinguish deliberate abstraction, with a solid realistic technique behind it, from that born out of its deficiency.

No, they were both attractive people and I think maybe genuinely in love. I could just tell from his end it didn't hurt that it came with money and citizenship. 

He was a carpenter trying to start his own Ikea type business. I don't think that ever went anywhere. 

P.S. My art teachers were always careful to point out their evolution in technique by showing us that guys like Picasso could actually do realism too. My need for abstraction, however, was born out of a lack of technique and talent. 

[chefist]

What time he is on tonight was my next question.  Thank you Chefist.  

I agree.  A Hoagy Happy Hour would be great as a regular feature, indeed!

Hi Starr! Hope you've been well. It says 9pm-12pm PT. I got in last last night, but that seems to have been a good thing. Ha! I really didn't listen before as it was on too late for me. Now, this will be a fun thing on a Sat/Sun night.    Of course, the chat thread is always a blast.

[K_Dubb]

No, they were both attractive people and I think maybe genuinely in love. I could just tell from his end it didn't hurt that it came with money and citizenship. 

He was a carpenter trying to start his own Ikea type business. I don't think that ever went anywhere. 

P.S. My art teachers were always careful to point out their evolution in technique by actually showing us that guys like Picasso could actually do realism too. My need for abstraction, however, was born out of a lack of technique and talent. 

Well at least you are not a peasant like your friend.  Art for these people ended with van Dijk's Still Life with Cheese.

[Walks_At_Night]

Sure seems like I missed a great deal of fun after I went to sleep half way thru Hoagie's show last night.
Darn East Coast time..........

[starrmtn001]

Hi Starr! Hope you've been well. It says 9pm-12pm PT. I got in last last night, but that seems to have been a good thing. Ha! I really didn't listen before as it was on too late for me. Now, this will be a fun thing on a Sat/Sun night.   Of course, the chat thread is always a blast.

That's cause we have the best of the BellGabbers here.

[Dr. MD MD]

Sure seems like I missed a great deal of fun after I went to sleep half way thru Hoagie's show last night.
Darn East Coast time..........

Hey, I'm East coast. Just become an insomniac.  :

[starrmtn001]

Hey, I'm East coast. Just become an insomniac.  :

Hey, I'm Mountain Time - StarrMountain Time, LOL.

[Walks_At_Night]

Hey, I'm East coast. Just become an insomniac.  :

No can do....  Too many responsibilities.

Oh well,   the Paranormal Central boys come on in 15 minutes:
https://livestream.com/accounts/188122/events/7547315

[Dr. MD MD]

Hey, I'm Mountain Time - StarrMountain Time, LOL.

It's always that time on Bellgab. 

[WOTR]

Well at least you are not a peasant like your friend.  Art for these people ended with van Dijk's Still Life with Cheese.

Every now and then I get the urge to pull out "still life with cheese" and hang a new painting in my living room...

[Morgus]

Looks like Hoagie got his facebook and twitter feeds working again at least, they both post about tonight's new show and guest scheduled.
His website however is still not updating for over a week.

[K_Dubb]

Every now and then I get the urge to pull out "still life with cheese" and hang a new painting in my living room...

Inspiring, but may I suggest Fascinus Hoaglandus Rex by a little-known anonymous Norwegian-American painter?

[CronkitesGhost]

Inspiring, but may I suggest Fascinus Hoaglandus Rex by a little-known anonymous Norwegian-American painter?

lol who did that?

[K_Dubb]

lol who did that?

An artistic vagabond I housed out of pity several years ago.  I should check; he may be moldering away in the garret yet.  It has been ages since he rang for his tin of sardines.

[CronkitesGhost]

If Hoagland did a year in LA County jail like his former book publisher claims there has to be a record of it online I would think since he's a convicted criminal. I have no doubt he's kooky enough to go to jail for something not worth going to jail for.

[Dr. MD MD]

If Hoagland did a year in LA County jail like his former book publisher claims there has to be a record of it online I would think since he's a convicted criminal. I have no doubt he's kooky enough to go to jail for something not worth going to jail for.

Hoagland has never denied it and, I think, has spoken about it on air before.