One More Reason To Recognize That Psychiatry is Total Utter Horseshit

[gnooryblows]

The Rosenhan Experiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment

I dunno, I was reading this and for some reason it made me think of this place. Maybe just any time someone mentions mental illness i think of the bellgab.

[Gd5150]

That's nutty. Crazy if they actually took psychiatric meds as part of their treatment. Amazed they ever got out after that.

[albrecht]

I recall an old movie that had similar theme. I don't know if "total utter horseshit" but a lot of it is, especially when it comes to the expanding, and changing, definitions of mental illness and various "spectrums." I worry a bit with all these alarmist stories and government press releases about the dangers of returning soldiers, gun owners, political dissidents, etc if we are going to return to the good old days where a wayward wife or some misbehaving teenager was locked away in Chestnut Lodge** or some "rehab" facility without a hearing and without many rights. Or even the days of "sluggish schizophrenia" etc of the old Soviet days and the government using psychiatry as a way to curtail dissent or eliminate critics or whistleblowers. You'll note how easily political adherents throw around the word "crazy", "you need to take meds", etc if they disagree on politics.

**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chestnut_Lodge

[Kelt]

I've gone through that phsychologica EQ test before, it was mandatory at the company I worked for.  I basically changed my frame of mind for every single question I was asked, so for the first question I was a kentucky Moonshiner and gave the answer Old Persnickety would have given, the next I was a fantastical Elf and gave the answer Resnor the High Elf of Woodytwig Forest would have given.

These tests are indeed absolute horseshit.

[Marc.Knight]

I've gone through that phsychologica EQ test before, it was mandatory at the company I worked for.  I basically changed my frame of mind for every single question I was asked, so for the first question I was a kentucky Moonshiner and gave the answer Old Persnickety would have given, the next I was a fantastical Elf and gave the answer Resnor the High Elf of Woodytwig Forest would have given.

These tests are indeed absolute horseshit.

There is overwhelming evidence that the results of tests such as the MMPI are not consistent and not reproducible.  Studies have show very different outcomes for the same people taking the same test on different occasions. 

[FightTheFuture]

I have to admit, I am NOT a big fan of the headshrinkers. I went to see the headshrinkers for a while after my discharge from the military, but I just failed to see the point in all of it.

If psychotherapy helps you, God bless ya. Whatever works for you that is legal,  moral and ethical, I'm all about it.

[Catsmile]

The Rosenhan Experiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment

I dunno, I was reading this and for some reason it made me think of this place. Maybe just any time someone mentions mental illness i think of the bellgab.

Welcome to the asylum.
Enjoy your stay.

[Catsmile]

I've gone through that phsychologica EQ test before, it was mandatory at the company I worked for.  I basically changed my frame of mind for every single question I was asked, so for the first question I was a kentucky Moonshiner and gave the answer Old Persnickety would have given, the next I was a fantastical Elf and gave the answer Resnor the High Elf of Woodytwig Forest would have given.

These tests are indeed absolute horseshit.

Pretty much if you have a job above fast food, you are subjected to some kind of mental evaluations. Since 9/11 they have ratcheted up such things. If you have any responsibility at all in "sensitive areas" they clumsily poke and prod at your body and mind, making sure you are fit for duty. All the while the lunatic sociopaths are running the asylum from the beltway unchecked.

And yes you can game the evaluations. The test are designed to detect such activity, I've confidently been told by doctors. You just have to be as smart as the test, or bored. I've gotten some perplexed looks from doctors. When I didn't behave like their graceless conclusive test defined me. Silence falls as they finish up, and I reassure them of their confidence in such evaluations, as I flash my catsmile.

[Kelt]

My wife has undergone way more of these than your regular schmoe, I think.  She does a lot of work for the Airforce, Army, and Homeland Security, so she tends to be under a lot of scrutiny. Folks on her team have been removed simply because they weren't full citizens and couldn't get a security clearance.  I'm sure if I had been anything less than British/American she'd likely have problems getting clearance herself.

She seems to think there's a science behind the practice of mental assessment, but I think you can't reduce the human psyche to a few standardised pages.

We've actually argued the validity of these tests whenever she has to do one, though it's a foregone conclusion that I win the argument since I'm about 150lbs heavier than her. I can pin her ass in about 2 seconds flat, and that's even if I've been drinking again.

She's very serious about this shit, I tend to take the juvenile approach.

[Catsmile]

My wife has undergone way more of these than your regular schmoe, I think.  She does a lot of work for the Airforce, Army, and Homeland Security, so she tends to be under a lot of scrutiny. Folks on her team have been removed simply because they weren't full citizens and couldn't get a security clearance.  I'm sure if I had been anything less than British/American she'd likely have problems getting clearance herself.

She seems to think there's a science behind the practice of mental assessment, but I think you can't reduce the human psyche to a few standardised pages.

We've actually argued the validity of these tests whenever she has to do one, though it's a foregone conclusion that I win the argument since I'm about 150lbs heavier than her. I can pin her ass in about 2 seconds flat, and that's even if I've been drinking again.

She's very serious about this shit, I tend to take the juvenile approach.

If it were hard science I'd be a little more reverent.
Whats next, someone gonna say Forensic Science is hard science?

I try not to be so serious myself. Such seriousness about something is akin to fundamentalism. Fundamentalism can lead to the myopic behavior of a believer. Belief is the antithesis of the scientific method.

Next time you share foreplay details, please do so in unabridged video format.   

[albrecht]

Pretty much if you have a job above fast food, you are subjected to some kind of mental evaluations. Since 9/11 they have ratcheted up such things. If you have any responsibility at all in "sensitive areas" they clumsily poke and prod at your body and mind, making sure you are fit for duty. All the while the lunatic sociopaths are running the asylum from the beltway unchecked.

And yes you can game the evaluations. The test are designed to detect such activity, I've confidently been told by doctors. You just have to be as smart as the test, or bored. I've gotten some perplexed looks from doctors. When I didn't behave like their graceless conclusive test defined me. Silence falls as they finish up, and I reassure them of their confidence in such evaluations, as I flash my catsmile.

THAT is the best point ever. I recall taking this similar test many decades ago to get a job sacking groceries at a new major chain that bought up the local chain! Because, I guess, I might move on to checker or steal!?!  I also recall a like test battery given sometime (was it Middle School?) that would "predict" your best job? Ha, yeah.

But, as you point out, these psych tests, -hell even drug tests- aren't given to the lawmakers, the judges, when passing the bar, even to practicing DOCTORS (though this might change in some states!) But if you are a student and want to play in the band or play sports, want to work sacking groceries, or- heaven forbid- live in shitty section -8 housing??

Now, it could be argued and maybe so, that for "secure positions" we need to be assured no mental illness, lack of loyalty, addictions, bad friends and associates, etc and basic tests can help weed out the baddies easily (or help identify certain individuals who might be "useful" for other functions of the government or military.) And likewise weeding out of students for higher learning or more shop classes but, if so, subject, politicians' kids, and them, to same battery of tests and weeding out and associated "security scrutiny". Even if they live at 1600 Penn or go to the elite Sidwell Friends (why do our politicians send their kids to a Quaker School but ask for more War Powers??)
Insanity.

[onan]

Many drug addicts will come into a medical emergency room complaining of severe kidney and groin pain. The quick differential diagnosis would suggest the possibility of kidney stones. Quickest and easiest test is to get a urine sample. The "patient" when in the bathroom takes a stick pin and pricks his finger. A quick drop of blood from the finger into a full urine sample and voila: blood in the urine. The presumption of kidney stones is validated by blood in the urine. The patient doesn't have kidney stones; but does have an addiction. But the staff of the ER is looking to solve the cause of the symptom presented.

Not all ED's are a sham because they are scammed. The Rosenhan study has several problems. A major one being that it is forty years old.

Yeah not all diagnoses are accurate. And yeah, sometimes those diagnoses are continually supported for several reasons; none of which are good.

But all psychiatry is far from horseshit.

There are many different types of psychological testing. Testing for axis I illnesses is quite different than testing for axis II disorders.

[Beelzebubbelah]

[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]

Pretty much if you have a job above fast food, you are subjected to some kind of mental evaluations. Since 9/11 they have ratcheted up such things. If you have any responsibility at all in "sensitive areas" they clumsily poke and prod at your body and mind, making sure you are fit for duty. All the while the lunatic sociopaths are running the asylum from the beltway unchecked.

And yes you can game the evaluations. The test are designed to detect such activity, I've confidently been told by doctors. You just have to be as smart as the test, or bored. I've gotten some perplexed looks from doctors. When I didn't behave like their graceless conclusive test defined me. Silence falls as they finish up, and I reassure them of their confidence in such evaluations, as I flash my catsmile.

=============================================================
I'm thinking,since the old('1930's)head-shrinker standard MMPI(?) was based on studies of 3000+ depressed svedes,it would be kkool to do an cross-kkulteral venn type chart compareing various 'Murkka 'tests'with,french hand-writeing examinations,along with the ever-popular blood-types,stereotypes of physiognomy,astrology,or obsolete midaeval diagnoses from the bumps on the head,palmistry,tea leaves...
Mebbe we can get up enough public sentiment to hang all the head hunters/shrinkers in an kind of auto-da-fe of normative mobocracy.
"B_B"