Greenpeace are assholes

[Daggit]

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/weird-science/peru-strikes-back-after-greenpeaces-nazca-lines-stunt-n266616

Hypocritical pieces of shit. I hope they all choke on the noxious fumes of their unwashed body odor. 

[albrecht]

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/weird-science/peru-strikes-back-after-greenpeaces-nazca-lines-stunt-n266616

Hypocritical pieces of shit. I hope they all choke on the noxious fumes of their unwashed body odor.

About the only time I had respect for France was when they took out the Greenpeace "Rainbow Warrior." Although it was bad that someone died (they had expected rational people who after the firm explosion would leave the ship and not head below decks to get some camera equipment.) And, of course, France quickly capitulated and apologized and punished the people who did it.
ps: I'm not for nuclear testing but also don't like Greenpeace with their stunts and weird world-view.

[Bart Ell]

Remember when a teen with a pressure cooker made all of France hide in their houses for a day?
Good times.

[Uncle Duke]

About the only time I had respect for France was when they took out the Greenpeace "Rainbow Warrior." Although it was bad that someone died (they had expected rational people who after the firm explosion would leave the ship and not head below decks to get some camera equipment.) And, of course, France quickly capitulated and apologized and punished the people who did it.
ps: I'm not for nuclear testing but also don't like Greenpeace with their stunts and weird world-view.

France "punished" them with a wink and a nod.  The two French officers convicted in NZ were allowed to return to France to serve their sentences, neither did.  I specifically remember the female officer (with her husband) lived under open house arrest on one of the French Polynesian islands for a just a few years before returning to France.  Upon her return she was hired by the French MoD, and made a chunk of change with both a book and a movie deal.

I don't remember how much of his sentence the male officer served, but he stayed in the military and retired as an 0-6.

[albrecht]

France "punished" them with a wink and a nod.  The two French officers convicted in NZ were allowed to return to France to serve their sentences, neither did.  I specifically remember the female officer (with her husband) lived under open house arrest on one of the French Polynesian islands for a just a few years before returning to France.  Upon her return she was hired by the French MoD, and made a chunk of change with both a book and a movie deal.

I don't remember how much of his sentence the male officer served, but he stayed in the military and retired as an 0-6.

The one thing France had going for it was "light" punishments for those involved in African coups, special black ops, right-wing terrorism, or for corrupt African dictators who need to flee with their wealth. Nothing like retiring to the French Riveria. Hell then even forgave officers who organized a coup against France over the Algerian mess back in the day! Heck there were pretty lenient compared to other countries with their NAZI collaborating government even....

[Yorkshire pud]

About the only time I had respect for France was when they took out the Greenpeace "Rainbow Warrior." Although it was bad that someone died (they had expected rational people who after the firm explosion would leave the ship and not head below decks to get some camera equipment.) And, of course, France quickly capitulated and apologized and punished the people who did it.
ps: I'm not for nuclear testing but also don't like Greenpeace with their stunts and weird world-view.

Yeah, being state sponsored terrorism and all that.

[DanTSX]

Yeah, being state sponsored terrorism and all that.

You sure you want to open that can of worms there Britbong?

[Yorkshire pud]

You sure you want to open that can of worms there Britbong?

Gladly.


I don't agree with any state sponsored terrorism. Whichever 'democratic' country is sponsoring it.

[albrecht]

Gladly.


I don't agree with any state sponsored terrorism. Whichever 'democratic' country is sponsoring it.

I note your qualification there. Why is non-state terrorism acceptable? Simply because many of those groups are leftists in bent?

And, if a legitimate state does it is it terrorism? Or an act of war or just a covert action? (Whether a good thing or not?) (The sinking of the Rainbow Warrior clearly wasn't terrorism because it wasn't intended to take lives and there was no acknowledgement of the bombing, the plan expected any people on the ship to act rationally and leave ship, and no media dissemination of "demands", "warnings", "rants", "threats", etc, in fact the French desperately tried to cover it up.)

[Kelt]

I note your qualification there. Why is non-state terrorism acceptable? Simply because many of those groups are leftists in bent?

And, if a legitimate state does it is it terrorism? Or an act of war or just a covert action? (Whether a good thing or not?) (The sinking of the Rainbow Warrior clearly wasn't terrorism because it wasn't intended to take lives and there was no acknowledgement of the bombing, the plan expected any people on the ship to act rationally and leave ship, and no media dissemination of "demands", "warnings", "rants", "threats", etc, in fact the French desperately tried to cover it up.)

I don't think it's automatically implied that non-state sponsored terrorism is something pud supports. I certainly didn't read his post and think there was a subtext that terrorism of any ilk was supported by implication.  In fact, being English, he probably experienced years of Irish terror attacks on cities in his country and subsequently doesn't agree with terrorism as a means to achieve goals political or otherwise... correct me if I'm wrong, YP.


As for the implication he would support terrorist organisations of a 'leftist' bent, the IRA was a Marxist organisation. That's kind of a leftist political philosophy, I think.


Also, you can't relieve the French attack of the 'Terrorist' stamp on the grounds that there was no intent to kill. The IRA often called in bomb threats, or gave the location of devices, with no intention of detonating said device. This still causes 'terror'. These are still 'terrorist' attacks.  Sinking a ship is going to cause terror amongst those in the target organisation, particularly when it inevitably came out that the sinking was the result of a deliberate act of sabotage.  On a basic level, someone blows your car up, you're going to be somewhat terrorised to discover there was 10lbs of Semtex deliberately set off under your vehicle.  You're not going to think, "Ach, they probably didn't mean me any harm. No reason to be scared or such. All they've done is blow up my car..."   You're going to be be pretty damned terrorised.


It's a terror attack any way you slice it.

[albrecht]

I don't think it's automatically implied that non-state sponsored terrorism is something pud supports. I certainly didn't read his post and think there was a subtext that terrorism of any ilk was supported by implication.  In fact, being English, he probably experienced years of Irish terror attacks on cities in his country and subsequently doesn't agree with terrorism as a means to achieve goals political or otherwise... correct me if I'm wrong, YP.


As for the implication he would support terrorist organisations of a 'leftist' bent, the IRA was a Marxist organisation. That's kind of a leftist political philosophy, I think.


Also, you can't relieve the French attack of the 'Terrorist' stamp on the grounds that there was no intent to kill. The IRA often called in bomb threats, or gave the location of devices, with no intention of detonating said device. This still causes 'terror'. These are still 'terrorist' attacks.  Sinking a ship is going to cause terror amongst those in the target organisation, particularly when it inevitably came out that the sinking was the result of a deliberate act of sabotage.  On a basic level, someone blows your car up, you're going to be somewhat terrorised to discover there was 10lbs of Semtex deliberately set off under your vehicle.  You're not going to think, "Ach, they probably didn't mean me any harm. No reason to be scared or such. All they've done is blow up my car..."   You're going to be be pretty damned terrorised.


It's a terror attack any way you slice it.

IRA was clearly leftist. No doubt about that. Interestingly they helped teach the newer Muslim types back in the day, who also had leftist ideals, about how to properly do car-bombings and IEDs. And had lots of training and connections to South American Marxist-Leninist terrorist groups.  Some of the others, particularly in Italy and Greece, it becomes more convoluted as the "leftist" groups might have been infiltrated, or even controlled, by "rightist" groups and operations (GLADIO etc.)

Legally, you are correct. In my state threatening your ex-wife, for example, is prosecuted as a "terroristic threat." And in the States post 911 almost every criminal violent activity can be prosecuted under some "terrorist" charge. And even pre-911 if you are some drug-addled hippie who puts a spike in a tree to save Gaia, for example.

If a state does it though it should be called an act of war, if done in another country and sanctioned by another country. Which is a far worse charge.

And I imagine that Pud doesn't support the IRA or terrorism in general.

[Kelt]

As they say, "One man's Terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter."  It's all a matter of semantics, and the 'Is It or Isn't It Terrorism' argument could be debated to the nth degree as a result of that maxim.


Nelson Mandela... terrorist who ordered horrific killings, or righteous anti-apartheid warrior who did what he had to do to free an entire people from the shackles of a murderous, racist, and barbaric regime? 


Well, both. It depends on your point of view, I guess, rather than any dictionary definition of what exactly constitutes a 'terrorist'.  It's a huge grey area with a periphery of Black and White.


I would say 'Terrorism' can, and is, carried out on a scale that covers everything from bullying in a schoolyard to nations employing terror tactics against foreign and domestic populations.  For whatever reason, people seem to be somewhat reluctant to acknowledge that national authorities quite happily commit atrocities that fall firmly under the auspices of 'Terrorism'.

[albrecht]

As they say, "One man's Terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter."  It's all a matter of semantics, and the 'Is It or Isn't It Terrorism' argument could be debated to the nth degree as a result of that maxim.


Nelson Mandela... terrorist who ordered horrific killings, or righteous anti-apartheid warrior who did what he had to do to free an entire people from the shackles of a murderous, racist, and barbaric regime? 


Well, both. It depends on your point of view, I guess, rather than any dictionary definition of what exactly constitutes a 'terrorist'.  It's a huge grey area with a periphery of Black and White.


I would say 'Terrorism' can, and is, carried out on a scale that covers everything from bullying in a schoolyard to nations employing terror tactics against foreign and domestic populations.  For whatever reason, people seem to be somewhat reluctant to acknowledge that national authorities quite happily commit atrocities that fall firmly under the auspices of 'Terrorism'.

I agree.

Though in my mind Nelson was a terrorist pure and simple. Now he might have changed as he got older, maybe, certainly his co-horts and ex-wife didn't. But seeing the statues in our countries and lauding over him at his funeral really pissed me off. (Mollified, a bit, be watching the faker sign-language mental guy who, somehow, got on stage to do this thing with world leaders and Presidents within arm's length, And by the Obama-selfie thing which just showed the narcissism and  lack of decorum politicians, especially him, have.) What is amazing is that the guy's terrorist group killed more blacks than whites even. Yet, celebrated and statues everywhere.

[Kelt]

Is killing your own people necessarily a surprising turn of events, though.  Take a look at the French Resistance... how many French collaborators took a bullet from their own people? The Belgian White Army was allegedly even more brutal than the French when it came to dealing with the Rexists.  They estimated that 70% of Gestapo in Belgium were Belgian collaborators from the ranks of the Rexists.  This isn't meant as a history lesson, but rather to illustrate that in any resistance to authority the collaborators are going to get it pretty hard.  Put yourself in the shoes of a Patriot when the Chinese take over America... what are you going to do to John C. America when you find out he's been informing on your friends and neighbours to the local Ministry of Public Security?

You choke that fucker to death and leave his naked, battered corpse swinging from a pole on the edge of town as a warning to the  other collaborators.


That would make you a terrorist, of course, because your warning to those collaborating with the Chinese occupier is, I AM COMING TO KILL YOU!"



This is the kind of thing that made Nelson Mandela a terrorist, as you say.


But a good terrorist or a bad terrorist?

[Yorkshire pud]

No, I don't support any terrorism. I won't even dignify the above inference by trying to explain that one.


The IRA (and to an extent the UDF) became enterprising; they ran drugs, protection rackets, prostitution rackets. Pretty much what most big crime syndicates do, hence their collaboration with South America; it wasn't so much a left/right thing as a business thing. Same with Libya, running weapons, one boat was caught doing that. It didn't make them Muslims, it was business. All to fight the British Government, the UDF did it to fight the IRA. Power struggle.


The IRA murdered more Catholics than non Catholics. They murdered for fun, they planted a bomb in Manchester outside the Arndale shopping centre; I know someone who was shopping inside there with their daughter when it exploded. Fortunately they were at the opposite end, but the pressure wave deafened them for hours. Miraculously they didn't get cut by the shards of flying glass.


So no, I don't have a soft spot for those who murder innocent people.