Citizen Four

[area51drone]

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/watch-first-trailer-for-edward-snowden-documentary-citizenfour-1201327537/

Anyone else want to see this?  I hope the torrent gets posted soon...    The trailer makes it look pretty good.   

[Zoo]

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/watch-first-trailer-for-edward-snowden-documentary-citizenfour-1201327537/

Anyone else want to see this?  I hope the torrent gets posted soon...    The trailer makes it look pretty good.

I am too. C4 will hopefully show how ES is a Patriot to America and how the Government got caught doing what it does best shitting on its citizens. I really hope this wakes up some of the sheepeople out their!!1

[area51drone]

2nd leaker found?

http://news.yahoo.com/feds-identify-suspected--second-leaker--for-snowden-reporters-165741571.html

Interesting article that goes in a little bit about the no fly list, as well as some of the other leak/prosecutions that have taken place lately.    I can't wait for this movie. 

[VtaGeezer]

I am too. C4 will hopefully show how ES is a Patriot to America and how the Government got caught doing what it does best shitting on its citizens. I really hope this wakes up some of the sheepeople out their!!1

If he'd only spilled the beans on NSA domestic surveillance of everyone, I could consider him a form of patriot.  But he exposed far far more that he should not have.  Then went to China and Russia.  I've heard several experts from outside the govt say that Snowden has really damaged US security and may have gotten people killed.

[bateman]

This looks excellent - will probably see it this week.

[albrecht]

If he'd only spilled the beans on NSA domestic surveillance of everyone, I could consider him a form of patriot.  But he exposed far far more that he should not have.  Then went to China and Russia.  I've heard several experts from outside the govt say that Snowden has really damaged US security and may have gotten people killed.

I tend to agree with you. Of course, I don't know and I'm not on the "inside" and the situations might have changed but there have been books (Bamford's stuff like Puzzle Palace decades ago) or "whistleblowers" like William Binney, Thomas Drake, etc who gave out good information and warned us about what was going on but didn't leave for countries that if not out-right enemy countries are at least potentially. The fact that Snowden fled there and released damaging information is suspect to me.
(ps: I just was trying to find names of other leakers and also an excellent guy recently who discovers "black sites" by using non-secret methods using Google search and ALL linked to Snowden. Is Google is a part of the NSA, as some allege, or at least seems to algorithm to most "popular" or "recent" stories.)

[area51drone]

If he'd only spilled the beans on NSA domestic surveillance of everyone, I could consider him a form of patriot.  But he exposed far far more that he should not have.  Then went to China and Russia.  I've heard several experts from outside the govt say that Snowden has really damaged US security and may have gotten people killed.

How many people has our government secretly killed?   How many people were killed thanks to Holder's Fast & Furious?   It's sickening the power that our federal government has over us.    There is a reason we have states and local municipalities, and slowly but surely the power of the state is being eroded through federal tax dollars and the power that that wields. 

Too much power in the hands of the few.   Today, even less people have power than ever - as you can only have a certain amount of influence in the congress and/or senate if you are appointed to certain committees.  The people who have been in these positions for *decades* basically pick their successors, the next president, etc etc, and they control it as much as possible through funding of campaigns.   Look at Obama - as an example he said he would change Wall Street.   Nothing has changed at all!   They're still gambling with yours and my savings.   I seriously wonder if there isn't something going on that Obama didn't get into office and was sat down by people who said "this is the way it is going to be - you can make some decisions but if you don't do what we say as an overall trend, we're going to do X, Y or Z."    I'm not saying aliens or anything, but I do question the power of the Federal Reserve. 

I'm rambling a bit here, so back to the movie: secret documents and programs keep that power where these people want it - at the very top.   I personally applaud Snowden for what he did.  People need to wise the fuck up and realize what's really going on here.    I don't blame him for running from prosecution - would you rather be called a traitor and live a relatively free life in another country or spend the next 50 years in a jail cell? 

[albrecht]

How many people has our government secretly killed?   How many people were killed thanks to Holder's Fast & Furious?   It's sickening the power that our federal government has over us.    There is a reason we have states and local municipalities, and slowly but surely the power of the state is being eroded through federal tax dollars and the power that that wields. 

Too much power in the hands of the few.   Today, even less people have power than ever - as you can only have a certain amount of influence in the congress and/or senate if you are appointed to certain committees.  The people who have been in these positions for *decades* basically pick their successors, the next president, etc etc, and they control it as much as possible through funding of campaigns.   Look at Obama - as an example he said he would change Wall Street.   Nothing has changed at all!   They're still gambling with yours and my savings.   I seriously wonder if there isn't something going on that Obama didn't get into office and was sat down by people who said "this is the way it is going to be - you can make some decisions but if you don't do what we say as an overall trend, we're going to do X, Y or Z."    I'm not saying aliens or anything, but I do question the power of the Federal Reserve. 

I'm rambling a bit here, so back to the movie: secret documents and programs keep that power where these people want it - at the very top.   I personally applaud Snowden for what he did.  People need to wise the fuck up and realize what's really going on here.    I don't blame him for running from prosecution - would you rather be called a traitor and live a relatively free life in another country or spend the next 50 years in a jail cell?

Puzzle Palace decades ago or  NSA "whistleblowers" like William Binney, Thomas Drake, etc? Pentagon Papers, INSLAW lawsuit, BCCI, IRAN-CONTRA There have been leaks etc? I grant your case though. It takes balls and commitment far and beyond a salary or a simple journalist. I would add to your "list" Danny Casolaro, Jim Webb, etc for those killed. Also than lady just killed in Turkey. But, traveling to known countries that are, at least potential enemies? (If you think Russia or the Chinese Communist want to support freedom or Occupy or human rights, or a "fair distribution of wealth"-- get your head checked and check some economic figures and history.) Those earlier guys, reporters, and people didn't--- and they didn't have cryptome, wikileaks, torrents, internet, adversarial press etc to get their leaks out!!! Even Serpico (who really faced stuff due to INDIVIDUAL outings by beat cops and whole agency local) went to Netherlands, Switzerland, Sweden after TESTIFYING (as I recall.) But, not having faced it I, hesitantly, agree. That he freed up some good information. Unfortunately, we all knew about almost all of it (by the previous people and books I mentioned) but also gave things that could (or did) hurt/kill our operators, soldiers, etc and flee to another adversary country, at least potentially? That means traitor, at least potential (actually I've always thought he was, possibly, a counter-intel operation but THAT is another discussion....)

[area51drone]

Snowden is no more of a traitor than those in power who "legally" steal our freedoms everyday.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Snowden is no more of a traitor than those in power who "legally" steal our freedoms everyday.

They should stick to stealing movies, like all decent and non-hypocritical people do.

[area51drone]

They should stick to stealing movies, like all decent and non-hypocritical people do.

Right!




  BTW, DPS, how do you like my hair?

[Zoo]

If he'd only spilled the beans on NSA domestic surveillance of everyone, I could consider him a form of patriot.  But he exposed far far more that he should not have.  Then went to China and Russia.  I've heard several experts from outside the govt say that Snowden has really damaged US security and may have gotten people killed.

The security of you and this country is an illusion. I really hope you understand that. Police can not protect you, soldiers can not protect you, and your Government can not protect you. Any war, police action, or protest the civilians are the ones who lose more than anyone else. If you do not believe me just look anywhere in history!!1

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131015-iraq-war-deaths-survey-2013/

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38989.htm

I tend to agree with you. Of course, I don't know and I'm not on the "inside" and the situations might have changed but there have been books (Bamford's stuff like Puzzle Palace decades ago) or "whistleblowers" like William Binney, Thomas Drake, etc who gave out good information and warned us about what was going on but didn't leave for countries that if not out-right enemy countries are at least potentially. The fact that Snowden fled there and released damaging information is suspect to me.
(ps: I just was trying to find names of other leakers and also an excellent guy recently who discovers "black sites" by using non-secret methods using Google search and ALL linked to Snowden. Is Google is a part of the NSA, as some allege, or at least seems to algorithm to most "popular" or "recent" stories.)

They were not facing 30 years in prison. The last 6 years whistleblowers(Hacktivist) are facing decades in prison. When they are suppose to be protected for doing the right thing. Instead they are called Domestic Terrorists and they are Evil people trying to destroy America. Do not be a fool and just believe what you Government/TV tells you!!1

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346247/Edward-Snowdon-NSA-whistleblower-faces-30-years-prison-charged-espionage-theft-U-S-government.html

http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/15/anonymous-hacktivist-jeremy-hammond-gets-maximum-10-year-prison-sentence/

[PB the Deplorable]

The security of you and this country is an illusion. I really hope you understand that. Police can not protect you, soldiers can not protect you, and your Government can not protect you...

Do not be a fool and just believe what you Government/TV tells you!!1

I would say police, soldiers, government cannot ALWAYS protect you.  But it's better than anarchy and vigilantism.  And having nothing but warlords or militias run by the self appointed.

And I would add that the future of the United States being a Republic is not guaranteed.  Liberty is fragile, and 'it' can happen here.  Which is why the Left is so dangerous in attempting to undermine the country.

[Zoo]

I would say police, soldiers, government cannot ALWAYS protect you.  But it's better than anarchy and vigilantism.  And having nothing but warlords or militias run by the self appointed.

And I would add that the future of the United States being a Republic is not guaranteed.  Liberty is fragile, and 'it' can happen here.  Which is why the Left is so dangerous in attempting to undermine the country.

The Republicans do not give a damn about you either. Both parties are really just one party that caterer to the super rich. I like to call them the Greed Party and no matter which one is in control we will lose both are freedom and are country. This is just the simple fact of life. I hope people will wake up and understand your party does not give a crap about you!!1

http://youtu.be/dxkuZ1n5smM 

[area51drone]

I love Jesse Ventura.  It's a shame he presents himself, physically, the way he does, it turns a lot of people off.   He's absolutely right about taking the R and the D off ballots.  That would make such a difference in at least the local elections.    In Washington State we have an initiative process - this could actually happen if someone took a stand and went out and got enough signatures to get it on the ballot.  If I had the money to not work and devote myself to a cause, that would be it.

[PB the Deplorable]

The Republicans do not give a damn about you either...

Well no shit.  Who said they did?

... I hope people will wake up and understand your party does not give a crap about you!!1

My Party?  I'm a registered Independent in Calif.

[Zoo]

I love Jesse Ventura.  It's a shame he presents himself, physically, the way he does, it turns a lot of people off.   He's absolutely right about taking the R and the D off ballots.  That would make such a difference in at least the local elections.    In Washington State we have an initiative process - this could actually happen if someone took a stand and went out and got enough signatures to get it on the ballot.  If I had the money to not work and devote myself to a cause, that would be it.

He has my Vote for 2016!!1

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

  BTW, DPS, how do you like my hair?

How do you like the feel of my nutsack slapping your chin?

[area51drone]

How do you like the feel of my nutsack slapping your chin?

So you swing both ways, eh?

[pate]

The whole idea of taking the party affliation off the ballot is/has been implemented in my particular area for years.  It hasn't had much effect on the election to office of candidates espouseing a particular ideology.  I do note that the Democrats seem to win... 

So there is the quandary, here at least, either the Democrats are more attractive to the electorate, and therefore a good thing, or nobody cares and name recognition rules.  Is it a more informed voter?  In either case the idiot vote rules...  Useful or whichever, still an idiot...

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

So you swing both ways, eh?

I consider myself a centrist.

[area51drone]

US Government spying on us through Skype... great.  If this is happening, which I guess we should have assumed, they're also spying on us through our xbox kinects, ps3/4 cameras, etc.  It's sickening.   We do cover our kinect with  towel, but that doesn't stop them from listening in.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/11/08/sharyl-attkisson-joins-kmoxs-mark-reardon-to-discuss-controversial-new-book/

[Kelt]

Well no shit.  Who said they did?

It's implied when you fail to mention the Republicans (the only other significant party) in your fear-o-political parties.

[ks3484]

The Republicans do not give a damn about you either. Both parties are really just one party that caterer to the super rich. I like to call them the Greed Party and no matter which one is in control we will lose both are freedom and are country. This is just the simple fact of life. I hope people will wake up and understand your party does not give a crap about you!!1

http://youtu.be/dxkuZ1n5smM

It's not a party war - it's a class war. Obama has not kept it a secret that he is a Marxist to the extreme. I believe that the extreme Marxist ideology is something along the lines of":

The Elite = The "Rich"

The Bourgeoisie = The "Middle" class

The Proletariat = The "Work-A-Day" men and women

Guess which class strata Obama says he works for and supports to the extreme?

[Zoo]

It's not a party war - it's a class war. Obama has not kept it a secret that he is a Marxist to the extreme. I believe that the extreme Marxist ideology is something along the lines of":

The Elite = The "Rich"

The Bourgeoisie = The "Middle" class

The Proletariat = The "Work-A-Day" men and women

Guess which class strata Obama says he works for and supports to the extreme?

Well the sad thing was Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, and Bush Jr all did the same thing. Only President that tried to stop it was Kennedy. Look at Executive Order 11110 and then talk to me!!1   

[ks3484]

Well the sad thing was Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, and Bush Jr all did the same thing. Only President that tried to stop it was Kennedy. Look at Executive Order 11110 and then talk to me!!1

I'm not sure why you would think that JFK was engendering himself to the proletariat by instituting and signing legislation that halted the sale of Silver Certificates issued by the Federal Reserve with a promise or guarantee from the federal government. He instead wanted the money to be issued by the US Treasury Dept. and Secretariat and not the Federal Reserve Source: Executive Order 11110

Both Houses of Congress have gone from being paid $6.00 per diem (day) to being paid $174,000.00 per annum (year). They have given themselves a 1.7% raise which will give an additional $2958.00 as of January 1, 2015. That means that all non-leaders in both houses of Congress will make $176,958.00. It's like having kids in a Russell Stover candy store. Regardless of the state of the U.S. or the people they are making $14,746.50 per month. Not To Bad.  Source: Salaries of members of the United States Congress

[Zoo]

I'm not sure why you would think that JFK was engendering himself to the proletariat by instituting and signing legislation that halted the sale of Silver Certificates issued by the Federal Reserve with a promise or guarantee from the federal government. He instead wanted the money to be issued by the US Treasury Dept. and Secretariat and not the Federal Reserve Source: Executive Order 11110

Both Houses of Congress have gone from being paid $6.00 per diem (day) to being paid $174,000.00 per annum (year). They have given themselves a 1.7% raise which will give an additional $2958.00 as of January 1, 2015. That means that all non-leaders in both houses of Congress will make $176,958.00. It's like having kids in a Russell Stover candy store. Regardless of the state of the U.S. or the people they are making $14,746.50 per month. Not To Bad.  Source: Salaries of members of the United States Congress

Well thanks for helping me make my point!!1